or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 435

post #13021 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Not getting any room gain with the SB13 like I thought I would. At least I don't think so....... I'll give another week or 2 and see what I think.

I remember when I upgraded from my entry level SVS to the PB12-Plus I have now and at first I wasn't blown away either but did notice some gains. Later on, I was selling my previous sub and I had to demo it for a potential buyer and boy was I shocked at the difference going back, big difference. I think it just speaks to the high quality all SVS subs are and how difficult it is to make improvements. While they are there, you have to listen more to hear them.

Keep playing with the setup and do get some measuring tools/software. Not directed at you but I'm shocked at the number of people that don't want to invest the time to calibrate the sub correctly and continue to complain about how crappy their sub sounds.
post #13022 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Gains will come from the NSD and the Plus together. The 12d (much as I love mine) is the weak link.

I hooked the Plus and NSD up together wasn't all that more impressed. I did not give it a long demo, granted. But if I am happy with how it sounds and feels with the NSD and 12d, why not just go with that? I'm not looking for "what's the most expensive combo of subs that will give me the full true sound even if it's only using 60% of it's power". I'm looking for "what combo of subs is both the lowest cost but also gives me the effect I am looking for". So far with demos, the Plus is not substantially impressing me enough to spend the extra $500.

And believe me, I know the RW12d is the weakest link. Some day I would like to replace it with a more proper sub that can fill in the midbass region the NSD is missing. But as for right now, it is not perfect but more than adequate.
post #13023 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Not getting any room gain with the SB13 like I thought I would. At least I don't think so. I don't have any measuring software but I ran some test tones from real traps and took readings with my spl meter from 10hz to 100hz. I'll post them.

Room gain will manifest itself mainly under 30 Hz, and I doubt you could see that without proper measurements. Also SPL meters are rarely accurate at and below 20 Hz.
Quote:
I need to get an antimode.

The Antimode will do the job, but at $400+, I think the best move would be either to put that money toward an AVR that EQs the sub, or if you like to tinker, toward a MiniDSP (circa $100) and a good calibrated microphone such as the MiniDSP UMIK-1 (circa $75). That, combined with the free REW software, would enable you to take precise measurements, compute correction filters and EQ the sub flat for less than $200.
Quote:
It's just not blowing my mind like I thought it would. I tested only 2 movies, WOTW and HTTYD, both sounded great with plenty of deep bass. A little rumbly though.

You can always bump up the sub level a bit smile.gif Though if it's not EQed and you have dominant room modes, it will sound one-notey or even hurt the ears. As for WOTW and HTTYD being "a little rumbly".... well lol that's the whole point biggrin.gif Those movies are shock-full of very low frequencies that are felt instead of heard. Turn up the volume and enjoy!
post #13024 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainsworth View Post

At this point with release of the 2000 series, and a fair number or returns due to upgrades which would u get an outlet special PB12-NSD for $649 or new PB-1000?

12" vs 10", original price 799 vs 499( here in europe atleast 499€ vs 799€, in usa same in $?) If the difference is now only 149$, no doubt pb12 is THE one wink.gif
post #13025 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

 But if I am happy with how it sounds and feels with the NSD and 12d, why not just go with that? I'm not looking for "what's the most expensive combo of subs that will give me the full true sound even if it's only using 60% of it's power". I'm looking for "what combo of subs is both the lowest cost but also gives me the effect I am looking for". 

Absolutely. Which is why the PB-1000 that's on its way to me will replace my first sub and work with my RW-12d. Should be fun!

post #13026 of 15839
Finally decided to experiment a little with the different tuning options with my PC12+.

I placed it in sealed mode last week and demoed a youtube bass test "video". It was very impressive. Sound was tight, deep and it pressurized the room (1650^3') really, really well.

Left it in sealed mode and watched Percy Jackson, Lightening Thief on Friday. Was kind of underwhelmed. It didn't sound that good, the sub was making some noises that I had not heard before and it was now localizable. I could hear it in the front right corner on certain scenes.

Saturday I put WOTW in and did the pod emergence scene plus the next couple of minutes. Left the volume, gain etc... the same, only changed the tuning mode on the sub.

Sealed- sounded pretty much like when I watched Percy Jackson, kind of bummed that for movies sealed mode was a no go.

16hz tune- now we're talking, back to normal, phew!

20hz tune (I never tried before, from day one I had the sub in 16hz tune). Damn if I couldn't tell by ear or by seat any difference in low frequency output, but I did gain a little overall output/impact. I guess I just can't tell 15hz from 20hz. Both sounded and felt the same.

Watched Dainel Craig version of Casino Royale saturday night in 20hz mode. I actually had to lower the sub trim by 2dbs from normal. Definite increase in output over 16hz mode, still rocked the room big time.

I guess I'll be leaving it in 20hz tune since I can't tell any difference in low frequencies and I get more output and a lesser chance of port chuffing.
post #13027 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I guess I'll be leaving it in 20hz tune since I can't tell any difference in low frequencies and I get more output and a lesser chance of port chuffing.

Test tones might help:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/64123-sinewave-test-tones.html#axzz2LbzTLwlK

post #13028 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Finally decided to experiment a little with the different tuning options with my PC12+.

Wow thanks a lot for the report Kini!
Quote:
16hz tune- now we're talking, back to normal, phew!

To be fair, that was the expected result. Tuning adds up to +6 dB max output close to tuning frequency -- it should make a difference.
Quote:
20hz tune (I never tried before, from day one I had the sub in 16hz tune). Damn if I couldn't tell by ear or by seat any difference in low frequency output, but I did gain a little overall output/impact. I guess I just can't tell 15hz from 20hz. Both sounded and felt the same.

I see... interesting. Note that you should at least correct for level when changing tuning (which you did, by hand). If your AVR is able to EQ the sub (e.g. Audyssey MultEQ XT and XT32), it may have performed corrections down to 20 Hz and perhaps even below. I'm not really suggesting that you redo your tests running a full Audyssey calibration between changes biggrin.gif (But if you do, hey, I won't complain!)

WOTW has plenty of sub-20 Hz content, but it's probably masked in a continuum of LFEs. I can think of 2-3 demos that would showcase sub-20 Hz content well so that you can decide between the 16 and 20 Hz tunings. First is "Bass, I Love You". When I played it on my Pluses first (16 Hz tune), I perceived that 17 Hz note loud and clear, and fist-pumped because my $2500+ investment "unlocked" a note with respect to my previous NSD biggrin.gif (Still no dice about those 7 Hz heartbeats though! wink.gif ). The other demos would be Underworld: Awakening with the Super Lycan intro scene. It was a favorite of the small crowd at my last sub fest, and the rumbles are really deep during the beast's footsteps. Finally, there's the Server Room scene in Pulse, which is a simple back-and-forth sweep that dig down to 15 Hz and below. Well, there's also the Second Grenade in World War Z, which is a frequency sweep that goes down to about 10 Hz I think.
post #13029 of 15839
Quote:

Also, another great source for test tones:

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/audio/testtones/
post #13030 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Wow thanks a lot for the report Kini!
To be fair, that was the expected result. Tuning adds up to +6 dB max output close to tuning frequency -- it should make a difference.
I see... interesting. Note that you should at least correct for level when changing tuning (which you did, by hand). If your AVR is able to EQ the sub (e.g. Audyssey MultEQ XT and XT32), it may have performed corrections down to 20 Hz and perhaps even below. I'm not really suggesting that you redo your tests running a full Audyssey calibration between changes biggrin.gif (But if you do, hey, I won't complain!)

WOTW has plenty of sub-20 Hz content, but it's probably masked in a continuum of LFEs. I can think of 2-3 demos that would showcase sub-20 Hz content well so that you can decide between the 16 and 20 Hz tunings. First is "Bass, I Love You". When I played it on my Pluses first (16 Hz tune), I perceived that 17 Hz note loud and clear, and fist-pumped because my $2500+ investment "unlocked" a note with respect to my previous NSD biggrin.gif (Still no dice about those 7 Hz heartbeats though! wink.gif ). The other demos would be Underworld: Awakening with the Super Lycan intro scene. It was a favorite of the small crowd at my last sub fest, and the rumbles are really deep during the beast's footsteps. Finally, there's the Server Room scene in Pulse, which is a simple back-and-forth sweep that dig down to 15 Hz and below. Well, there's also the Second Grenade in World War Z, which is a frequency sweep that goes down to about 10 Hz I think.

On "Bass I Love You" How do you know when you are supposed to hear what?

I have no Audessey, just crappy old EZSetEQ which I don't think does anything. I'm actually afraid to run it with my new speakers in fear of it screwing things up. eek.gif
post #13031 of 15839
^^ Kini62 do you have 1 or 2 12Plus's?
post #13032 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

^^ Kini62 do you have 1 or 2 12Plus's?

Just one lonesome sub. frown.gif
post #13033 of 15839
I was just wondering seeing as you tried all the tuning modes and did not hear any difference between the 16 and the 20 has me thinking I will try the same. I have not run Audyssey XT32 yet with the addition of my PC 12 Plus. So when my mic stand arrives I will run Audyssey XT32 and then run some graphs with REW. Hopefully get some good info after I am done.
post #13034 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

On "Bass I Love You" How do you know when you are supposed to hear what?

What, can't you recognize 17 Hz when you hear it? biggrin.gif It's really simple: it's the note you can hear in 16 Hz tuning but can't in 20 Hz tuning biggrin.gif

Seriously now. It's a bit hard to describe in a post, as I'm not a musician. But the bass line is made up of notes between 25 and 30 Hz approximately. At one point the bass line has a crescendo of 3 notes, then a pause, then two lower notes in quick succession. (By the way, on many setups I couldn't hear those as two separate notes; the first one is a bit higher than the second. I think it's a really good test to see if a sub is good and/or well calibrated).

So it sounds like.... boom bom bam ... bo-bom. Well, the pause (...) hides the 17 Hz note. At higher volumes in 16 Hz tuning, there's a strong tremor in the air. Bizarrely I always think it's like the sound is aspirated by the subs. On a PC12-NSD, I half hear it, half-imagine it. On the Plus (16 Hz tuning), it's unmistakable and at high volume, it makes the room shake.

Ok I realize it's not that helpful, but I'm at work right now and my crappy computer speakers can't reproduce the bass line *at all*, so I can't give a timing on a youtube clip right now. I'll try at home if possible tonight!
Quote:
I have no Audessey, just crappy old EZSetEQ which I don't think does anything. I'm actually afraid to run it with my new speakers in fear of it screwing things up. eek.gif

Rofl!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Just one lonesome sub. frown.gif

First world problem I guess tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

I was just wondering seeing as you tried all the tuning modes and did not hear any difference between the 16 and the 20 has me thinking I will try the same. I have not run Audyssey XT32 yet with the addition of my PC 12 Plus. So when my mic stand arrives I will run Audyssey XT32 and then run some graphs with REW. Hopefully get some good info after I am done.

That would be awesome but be prepared for a long, tedious session! I always think I can calibrate and take a few REW measurements in 20 min... it always end up taking the whole evening! rolleyes.gif
post #13035 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

On "Bass I Love You" How do you know when you are supposed to hear what?

I have no Audessey, just crappy old EZSetEQ which I don't think does anything. I'm actually afraid to run it with my new speakers in fear of it screwing things up. eek.gif

Going 16Hz will dig deep. 20Hz is the max output. I chuffed at 16Hz with the Server Scene, but didn't chuff at 20Hz.

That's no excuse. All I have is an SPL meter.
post #13036 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post


On "Bass I Love You" How do you know when you are supposed to hear what?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_test

 

Other demo material here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/demonstration-blu-ray-discs-independently-authored

post #13037 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

Oh I've dialed it back up to -10 and it has the power. But my last impression of the PC12-NSD + the RW12d was very very good, the only complaint I had was the midbass was slightly muddy. Turning up the PC12-Plus it can give me almost the same amount of punch as the 2 but it is still muddy. For instance 2 demo scenes one in Tron when Sam first gets into the grid there is a bass song and it's muddy, also in War of the Worlds on the boat the alien ship before it does it's loud horn, planting it's feet is impactful yet muddy also. I just don't think anything is going to give me that midbass "feel" I was looking for without the muddiness.

And to be frank, the overall "feel" is a bit better with the NSD and RW12d due to being dual subs. I know what you are gonna say, the Plus with RW12d doesn't seem to give me huge gains.

From what you say , it's more a problem of modal response of your room that subwoofer . This can be alleviated as far as possible, looking for the ideal spot where to place the subwoofer and one would require equalization to correct room problems . This is the right solution to problamas muddy bass or lack of mid- bass .

Another good solution is to have dual subwoofers , help a lot with the modal response of the room and the response will be much more homogeneous than one subwoofer , then EQ and enjoy.

The only weak point I see in your installation, is the mix of two totally different subwoofers. In your place I would rule out the Klipsch ( 's just a patch that may work better or worse) ideally have equal subwooers or more similar in response refers .

I would stay with NSD + Plus. Plus you put it in 20hz mode to be matched to the response of the NSD and the harder you work encargas . The NSD will put a softer volume gain and thus avoid bottoming out and to keep up with the Plus as far as possible .
post #13038 of 15839
You don't understand, I don't have the money for the NSD and the Plus.
post #13039 of 15839
Well I boxed the Plus back up. Going with the NSD and RW12d for now. I can see myself replacing the RW12d with another sub down the road. Who knows maybe a PB-2000 or equivalent. But not if I had bought the Plus now. 2 NSD priced subs eventually is something I can maybe do, but not 2 plus priced subs.

And any way, I am pretty happy with the tactile effect of even the NSD paired with a second sub. I think it's a good choice considering my room size. When I replace the RW12d the intention will be to add just a tad bit more tactile effect and clean up the muddiness. For now I am happy. As the NSD has made the bass stronger, the Pod emergence scene for example. actually feels subterranean.
post #13040 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

Well I boxed the Plus back up. Going with the NSD and RW12d for now. I can see myself replacing the RW12d with another sub down the road. Who knows maybe a PB-2000 or equivalent. But not if I had bought the Plus now. 2 NSD priced subs eventually is something I can maybe do, but not 2 plus priced subs.

And any way, I am pretty happy with the tactile effect of even the NSD paired with a second sub. I think it's a good choice considering my room size. When I replace the RW12d the intention will be to add just a tad bit more tactile effect and clean up the muddiness. For now I am happy. As the NSD has made the bass stronger, the Pod emergence scene for example. actually feels subterranean.
Damn I just lost a hundy in that bet awhile back lol. Nah congrats with making a fine choice in the NSD and I can totally understand your objective in the long run with another NSD or 2000 as those fit your budget. Bottom line is that your happy in the end. smile.gif
post #13041 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

Damn I just lost a hundy in that bet awhile back lol. Nah congrats with making a fine choice in the NSD and I can totally understand your objective in the long run with another NSD or 2000 as those fit your budget. Bottom line is that your happy in the end. smile.gif

Hey sorry to let ya down, I know you had my eye on that Plus! I think if I tweaked it and tested it longer I might have been blown away. So this decision had more to do with my budget and me being pretty satisfied already with the NSD and friend. Considering my room size I think when I first called Ed he recommended the NSD. He's a pretty smart guy I think he nailed it. Got the best bang for my buck! Yes I think replacing the 12d with a PB-2000 will give me a very nice clean impactful improvement. But maybe at the end of the year I'll get the itch to do that.
post #13042 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

Well I boxed the Plus back up. Going with the NSD and RW12d for now. I can see myself replacing the RW12d with another sub down the road. Who knows maybe a PB-2000 or equivalent. But not if I had bought the Plus now. 2 NSD priced subs eventually is something I can maybe do, but not 2 plus priced subs.

And any way, I am pretty happy with the tactile effect of even the NSD paired with a second sub. I think it's a good choice considering my room size. When I replace the RW12d the intention will be to add just a tad bit more tactile effect and clean up the muddiness. For now I am happy. As the NSD has made the bass stronger, the Pod emergence scene for example. actually feels subterranean.

bolded the key phrase...this hobby is a disease hhaa
post #13043 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

bolded the key phrase...this hobby is a disease hhaa

I said that because I plan to ditch the RW12d for a PB-2000, or maybe they even update the PC12-NSD. I even said that. But I wouldn't upgrade into that next tier. That's all I'm saying. But yes I'm still an upgrader.
post #13044 of 15839
If the volume/level control on my PB1000 is busted, and I no longer have the box... and I live in Toronto, does anyone have any idea what my options might be?
post #13045 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by malokevi View Post

If the volume/level control on my PB1000 is busted, and I no longer have the box... and I live in Toronto, does anyone have any idea what my options might be?

I'm assuming you purchased from an authorized reseller. So, if that is the case, then give them a call. Chances are you don't need to ship the whole sub, just the amp plate.
post #13046 of 15839
Quote:
If the volume/level control on my PB1000 is busted, and I no longer have the box... and I live in Toronto, does anyone have any idea what my options might be?
I can think of three options off the top of my head:
1. Call sonicboomaudio.com.
2. Drive your sub over to sonicboomaudio.com.
3. Toss the sub and buy a new one.

smile.gif
post #13047 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I can think of three options off the top of my head:
1. Call sonicboomaudio.com.
2. Drive your sub over to sonicboomaudio.com.
3. Toss the sub and buy a new one.

smile.gif

Another option
Turn the trim level up or down in the avr. rolleyes.gif
post #13048 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

Another option
Turn the trim level up or down in the avr. rolleyes.gif

Yeah, no way I'm tossing it. And if it's that much of a hassle to repair, I'll probably just use the AVR to adjust the levels when necessary. It still sounds fantastic, and whatever level it's stuck at is reasonable. I payed about 500 bucks for it 6 months ago straight from the SVS website, so I would hate to lose it so quickly. I think I'll email SVS and see what they suggest, and otherwise I'll just use the AVR to adjust the levels, or even just disable the sub in my configuration settings when it is too much. Half the time I end up turning it off because it shakes the house, and just let the woofers on my towers do all the work (where usually the sub would handle everything below 60hz).

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.
post #13049 of 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by malokevi View Post

Yeah, no way I'm tossing it. And if it's that much of a hassle to repair, I'll probably just use the AVR to adjust the levels when necessary. It still sounds fantastic, and whatever level it's stuck at is reasonable. I payed about 500 bucks for it 6 months ago straight from the SVS website, so I would hate to lose it so quickly. I think I'll email SVS and see what they suggest, and otherwise I'll just use the AVR to adjust the levels, or even just disable the sub in my configuration settings when it is too much. Half the time I end up turning it off because it shakes the house, and just let the woofers on my towers do all the work (where usually the sub would handle everything below 60hz).

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

If you bought it straight from SVS you are covered. Simply give them a call and they will get your sub fixed up.
post #13050 of 15839
Ask me how good my newly arrived sb13 ultra compliments my pc13 ultra. One word....Dub Tastic !
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.