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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 436

post #13051 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

Ask me how good my newly arrived sb13 ultra compliments my pc13 ultra. One word....Dub Tastic !

Pics or didn't happen!

tongue.gif


Congrats on your dual subs!
post #13052 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post


Pics or didn't happen!
 

You're letting him off easy - I want to see graphs!

:D

post #13053 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Pics or didn't happen!

tongue.gif


Congrats on your dual subs!




Evidence of the crime
Edited by wadeh911 - 1/15/14 at 7:28pm
post #13054 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post





Evidence of the crime

B&W 803 d's?

Nice
post #13055 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post





Evidence of the crime

Nice Classe stack.
post #13056 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


What, can't you recognize 17 Hz when you hear it? biggrin.gif It's really simple: it's the note you can hear in 16 Hz tuning but can't in 20 Hz tuning biggrin.gif
 

I was under the impression you can not hear anything under 20Hz.  In fact, I thought being able to hear 20Hz was like having 20/20 vision, not everyone can see that well. Likewise, not everyone can even hear down to 20Hz, let alone below that.

 

With my PB12-NSD on the Bass I Love You song, I hear deep bass, then a lack of sound but a strong vibration of my couch, room, and house.  To the point  where my wife, who was upstairs taking a shower, came out and asked what the heck was going on as she felt the house shaking.  I believe this is the 17 Hz signal, which apparently my sub is able to produce in my room.

post #13057 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

Ask me how good my newly arrived sb13 ultra compliments my pc13 ultra. One word....Dub Tastic !

NICE! Congrats!
post #13058 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

You're letting him off easy - I want to see graphs!
biggrin.gif

Well, what can I say, I'm just a nice guy.............wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



Evidence of the crime

What do we have here!?!?!

Pretty cool system you have at home. How did you manage to install the floorstanding speaker as center channel? tongue.gif It must sound impressive!

PC-13 located at the corner of the room...............tons of output to shake that sectional like there is no tomorrow.......nice!

Only problem that I see with those Classe....................


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
they are not mine!!!!!



Once again "congrats" and thanks for sharing the pics!
post #13059 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

I was under the impression you can not hear anything under 20Hz.  In fact, I thought being able to hear 20Hz was like having 20/20 vision, not everyone can see that well. Likewise, not everyone can even hear down to 20Hz, let alone below that.

20 Hz and under is a bit hard to describe. The inner ear is probably somehow involved but it's not the major pathway to sensing ULF. At low levels, sub-20 Hz is not perceptible. At higher levels, it causes rumbles, fluttering in the air, tactile sensations on hair and skin, etc. At levels high enough anybody knows there's something going on, it's not subtle at all. But it's not really something you hear in the traditional sense of the word.
Quote:
With my PB12-NSD on the Bass I Love You song, I hear deep bass, then a lack of sound but a strong vibration of my couch, room, and house.  To the point  where my wife, who was upstairs taking a shower, came out and asked what the heck was going on as she felt the house shaking.  I believe this is the 17 Hz signal, which apparently my sub is able to produce in my room.

That's a sure thing you're doing it right smile.gif The ported NSD still have relatively strong output at 17 Hz since they're tuned at about 19 Hz. But the effect will strongly depend on room. A close friend to whom I sold my SB12 upgraded to the PC12-NSD in a large room on concrete, and the 17 Hz note is barely perceptible. In my house, at low volume, a 17 Hz test tone makes the plates and dishes rattle in the kitchen before I can perceive something at the listening position.
post #13060 of 15876
Anyone here get a pb-2000 yet? Looking at running one alongside my rw-12d for a while and then selling that and running dual pb-2000.

Looking for firsthand experience if anyone has messed with one of these yet. I'm pb-2000 and rythmik lv12r, which is cheaper of course.Or check out an XV-15.

I dunno - I like SVS' customer service and reputation and would lke to work with them, and I would purchase through avs.
Edited by baloo_btru - 1/16/14 at 9:02am
post #13061 of 15876

Many here seems to have 2 different subs in the system, not identical. I thought that if you are going with dual subs, they have to be identical, otherwise it gives you easily more troubles than benefits?

post #13062 of 15876

"Have to" is the operative phrase here. It is certainly easier to balance two identical subs, a little harder with two dissimilar subs, and very hard with two very different subs. The less capable sub will be the limiting factor.

post #13063 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by underdogftw View Post

Many here seems to have 2 different subs in the system, not identical. I thought that if you are going with dual subs, they have to be identical, otherwise it gives you easily more troubles than benefits?

They don't have to be identical. But, there could be some problems if they're not.

Here's an example of the problems that you can have if they're not identical. Suppose you have a PB12-Plus and a PB-1000, and you decide to place them at similar distances to the listening position. You tune the Plus at 20 Hz to match the PB-1000. You calibrate each sub so that they each provide about 70-71 dB SPL at the listening position during test tones, and together, they add the 4-5 dB to provide a perfect 75 dB level. Now you raise the volume.

The first sub to reach its limits, of course, will be the PB-1000. At that point, either the sub will make port noises, or simply won't go higher. The total volume with the two subs at that point will also be 4-5 dB above the limits of the PB-1000 alone, exactly as it were if you had dual PB-1000s. If you try to raise the volume further, now the sub channel will become unbalanced because you won't be able to count on the PB-1000 anymore past its limits. You'll perceive a lack of bass (on top of, possibly, port chuffing). Now the kicker is that the Plus is able to provide way more than 4-5 dB over the single PB-1000. So if you just removed the PB-1000 from that setup, you could actually play at higher volumes without bass becoming lacking or hearing port chuffing, than if you kept the PB-1000.

It's indeed possible to integrate the PB-1000 with a Plus, but this requires setting up the PB-1000 so that it doesn't work as hard as the Plus. Typically this would be done by carefully positioning the PB-1000 closer to the listening position for example, so that the two sub reach their limits at the same level, approximately. You can always invoke the argument that you're not listening that loud anyway; but then it's an implicit admission that you're not using the Plus to its full capacity, and you should probably have used dual PB-1000s in the first place.

This argument of one sub running into its limits first can be applied on a per-frequency basis also. So when two subs don't have the same max output frequency profile, then you may run into the same problem even if in average they can output similar levels. For example, if you're running a sealed and a ported sub that otherwise share the same driver and amp (e.g. both Ultras), then around the ported sub's tuning, you will run into different limits even though the subs will have about the same performance in mid-bass.

Equalization and room gain muddy the issue a bit of course, but this is in essence the argument for using subs as similar as possible.
post #13064 of 15876
The president of SVS has informed me that they will be selling a piano black SB-2000 shortly. Because they listened to my, and many others opinions, I just want to say bravo. Love having a higher end finish option on a compact sub (without going to the SB13 size). My PB12-plus looks ungodly gorgeous with this finish and I just can't see myself going back to black oak vinyl anytime in the future.
post #13065 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

The president of SVS has informed me that they will be selling a piano black SB-2000 shortly. Because they listened to my, and many others opinions, I just want to say bravo. Love having a higher end finish option on a compact sub (without going to the SB13 size). My PB12-plus looks ungodly gorgeous with this finish and I just can't see myself going back to black oak vinyl anytime in the future.
How about the PB??? confused.gif
post #13066 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post


How about the PB??? confused.gif

 

I would hope it would include the PB too.

post #13067 of 15876
Sonicboom in Canada as finally added the PB-2000 to their line-up. The asked price is $889... Why is there a $90 premium over the SVS site ? Plus, we have to pay for shipping. All of their other products are matching the US price. Not fair!
post #13068 of 15876
I like the 5 O'clock shadow fuzz on my PC!
post #13069 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

They don't have to be identical. But, there could be some problems if they're not.

Here's an example of the problems that you can have if they're not identical. Suppose you have a PB12-Plus and a PB-1000, and you decide to place them at similar distances to the listening position. You tune the Plus at 20 Hz to match the PB-1000. You calibrate each sub so that they each provide about 70-71 dB SPL at the listening position during test tones, and together, they add the 4-5 dB to provide a perfect 75 dB level. Now you raise the volume.

The first sub to reach its limits, of course, will be the PB-1000. At that point, either the sub will make port noises, or simply won't go higher. The total volume with the two subs at that point will also be 4-5 dB above the limits of the PB-1000 alone, exactly as it were if you had dual PB-1000s. If you try to raise the volume further, now the sub channel will become unbalanced because you won't be able to count on the PB-1000 anymore past its limits. You'll perceive a lack of bass (on top of, possibly, port chuffing). Now the kicker is that the Plus is able to provide way more than 4-5 dB over the single PB-1000. So if you just removed the PB-1000 from that setup, you could actually play at higher volumes without bass becoming lacking or hearing port chuffing, than if you kept the PB-1000.

It's indeed possible to integrate the PB-1000 with a Plus, but this requires setting up the PB-1000 so that it doesn't work as hard as the Plus. Typically this would be done by carefully positioning the PB-1000 closer to the listening position for example, so that the two sub reach their limits at the same level, approximately. You can always invoke the argument that you're not listening that loud anyway; but then it's an implicit admission that you're not using the Plus to its full capacity, and you should probably have used dual PB-1000s in the first place.

This argument of one sub running into its limits first can be applied on a per-frequency basis also. So when two subs don't have the same max output frequency profile, then you may run into the same problem even if in average they can output similar levels. For example, if you're running a sealed and a ported sub that otherwise share the same driver and amp (e.g. both Ultras), then around the ported sub's tuning, you will run into different limits even though the subs will have about the same performance in mid-bass.

Equalization and room gain muddy the issue a bit of course, but this is in essence the argument for using subs as similar as possible.
THANK YOU, neutro! Yet another in a seemingly never-ending series of invaluable lessons from you.

Like many others here, I've read every post in this thread... and that is, by far, the clearest explanation of the reasoning behind the "similar dual subs" issue that I've encountered, anywhere.
post #13070 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFred View Post

Sonicboom in Canada as finally added the PB-2000 to their line-up. The asked price is $889... Why is there a $90 premium over the SVS site ? Plus, we have to pay for shipping. All of their other products are matching the US price. Not fair!

Hmm, that changes my thinking for the future. Our dollar has been sinking lately, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
post #13071 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post

Our dollar has been sinking lately,...

Ahhhh yes, gotta love politicians. They're always looking out for our best interests.

...tongue.gif

(i'm kidding and not kicking over a political debate, on any issues)
post #13072 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFred View Post

Sonicboom in Canada as finally added the PB-2000 to their line-up. The asked price is $889... Why is there a $90 premium over the SVS site ? Plus, we have to pay for shipping. All of their other products are matching the US price. Not fair!

... And I don't see the SB-2000 either... I think Mason & co at SonicBoomAudio should take a week-end to update the site too; it's becoming cluttered by now irrelevant categories, and descriptions are not very helpful anymore (e.g. the "new" PB12-NSD being in fact now phased out for the PB-2000). At least, kudos to SBA for not including the awful hand with the white cloth biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post

Hmm, that changes my thinking for the future. Our dollar has been sinking lately, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Well the official change rate is now 0.92 at the time of this writing, so that alone almost explains the difference (gives a 869 price tag). Of course nobody can actually get that exchange rate. At 0.90, we get 889... So it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a 799 CAD PB-2000 with free shipping as much as you biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by B 26354 View Post

THANK YOU, neutro! Yet another in a seemingly never-ending series of invaluable lessons from you.

Like many others here, I've read every post in this thread... and that is, by far, the clearest explanation of the reasoning behind the "similar dual subs" issue that I've encountered, anywhere.

Well thanks again for the compliment! But remember that I merely digest what I read on AVS and... well... I guess I regurgitate it for you tongue.gif
post #13073 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I would purchase through avs.

What does that mean?
post #13074 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post

Hmm, that changes my thinking for the future. Our dollar has been sinking lately, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Have it shipped to someone close by you in the states and go meet them.
post #13075 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Have it shipped to someone close by you in the states and go meet them.

I still have to pay in Canadian dollars, and as neutro pointed out it will be close to the same, minus the shipping, as if I just buy it from SBA. The minimum 4 hour drive to pick it up, if I knew someone that close, would take care of any shipping savings. If our dollar goes back up to parity, then I might have a case.
post #13076 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post

I still have to pay in Canadian dollars, and as neutro pointed out it will be close to the same, minus the shipping, as if I just buy it from SBA. The minimum 4 hour drive to pick it up, if I knew someone that close, would take care of any shipping savings. If our dollar goes back up to parity, then I might have a case.

Dang, guys. That conversion rate sux. It's $1 US to $1.09 CDN.

Pretty soon, all of our currency will be based on the peso. No more conversions!
post #13077 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Dang, guys. That conversion rate sux. It's $1 US to $1.09 CDN.

Well it's been much worse smile.gif What is more infuriating though is that the CAD was above the USD for a while in the past years and it didn't change much, with Canadian MSRPs sometimes still way above the US ones. Granted, the exchange rate fluctuates much faster than the pricing strategies of companies, but the differences are really weird sometimes.
post #13078 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Dang, guys. That conversion rate sux. It's $1 US to $1.09 CDN.

Pretty soon, all of our currency will be based on the peso. No more conversions!

I personally hope it's based on litecoin so I'll be rich.
post #13079 of 15876
I think SBA has been doing a great job at pricing and is one of the few shops that offered equal US-CDN pricing. Now that the $ is slipping on our side I would say the PB-2000 is priced very fair, besides they could have just rounded it up to $899 so it looks like they are trying hard to keep the pricing matched with the exchange.

I imagine the SB-2000 will be priced the same when they get around to posting it.
post #13080 of 15876
Quote:
Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post

How about the PB??? confused.gif

He only said the SB-2000...so at this point I wouldn't be on the PB-2000 included. He mentioned that the price increase to do the piano black had gone up for them so the larger surface area of the PB-2000 might have made it cost prohibitive.
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