Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 257

Ed himself said there's no performance difference between the cylinder subs and their equivalent box sub. The difference is one of construction. The cylinder is made of dense cardboard covered with a velvet sock, and is thus quite lighter than the box sub. I'd guess the velvet sock is less expensive than the wooden finish on the Ultra also. Thus the difference in price and weigth.

As to which to chose, it's a question of personal preferences. The PC will basically look like a black water heater. The PB has basically the size and shape of a mini-fridge, but with a nice wooden finish. The PC uses less floor space but is very tall. I know in my case I'd choose the PC because it's cheaper, lighter, and more easily placed into a cluttered living room. Also for hearing people say things like "where the hell is the sub that produces *that*" (i.e. the PC can be hidden in plain sights because people expect big boxes) or "what the hell is *that*" if they happen to notice the aforementioned water heater-shaped monolith.

Thanks for the info!! Cool to know there is no performance difference on them!! Hard to believe according to the weight and engineering on the box sub but I can believe it!

I can say from past experience that the PC subs pack a solid amount of punch, given their size, weight, and (relative) mobility. Add to that the footprint issue for those of us whose floorspace is largely occupied by toddlers' toys and dog beds, and it makes things even simpler.

I'm gonna defer to Ed's expertise as to their relative heft when carrying the LFE load. I personally have always had a lingering doubt as to the PC's spl capability relative to the corresponding PB, but Ed has always been nothing other than honest and upfront with me in our past correspondences. And I see no reason to doubt that now.

I was curious as to why on the SVS website on the PB12-Plus the SPL and Freq graph it has a higher DB rating (95db+) compared to the same SPL/Freq graph for the PB13-Ultra which shows (90db)

Would there not be much performance difference of these 2? and by looking at the graph the cheaper PB12-Plus looks like it performs better!!

Could be wrong, however, I thought I read that the frequency response and output capabilities between the box and cylinder NSD and Plus are extremely similar. However, in the Ultra line the box has a slight output advantage compared to the cylinder at deep frequencies due to enclosure volume. One of the reasons, I went with the Cylinder Plus is due to the cylinder's mobility and footprint. I could not even think about getting a box, especially the size of the PB13 Ultra into my house and down to the stairs to my basement. Plus my wife hates the big boxes. She finds the water heater better looking. Go figure

I bought the PB13-Ultra a few months ago. i have absolutely no regrets what so ever. It is unbelievable. The last sub I bought was nearly 12 years ago. I don't see this one lasting me any less time. With that said, the difference of $500 is negagable. If it doesn't break the bank for you, you won't bee disappointed. It has been the best investment for my HT to date.

How much does the Ultra draw in amps? Here in Canada we do 120 VAC and we have 15 amp circuits! Hope it doesnt need its own 20 or 30 amp breaker!!

It just has a normal 15amp plug on it and I just have it plugged into a normal outlet in the living room.

Anyone?

They are frequency response graphs, not max output graphs. They say zero about max output at any frequency. It's just what signal level they ahppened to use to measure on that day.

BTW, if they maxed out at 90 or 95 dB, they'd be overpriced by a factor of at least three. As it is they are value leaders in high performance subs. Cneck out the testing of the PB13 at avtalk.co.uk. Astounding. ANd you will be able to see how the frequency response changes once you get past a certain, very loud for the PB13 point.

Not at all. The Ultras have a 1kW amp. Your microwave oven or hairdryer probably uses more power.


Exactly. They just want to show how flat the response is and how low the cut-off is. That being said it would be nice if SVS could post clearer graphs -- we barely see the frequency axis as it is. Evidently they have nothing to hide, so...


Are you talking about this? Those tests are from 2007 using a 750 W BASH amp, not the new 1kW Sledge amps.

still great performance with the old amps. Everything I've read about the new amps is very positive but the power differential is only like a decible and a half . . .

For the Sledge amp version test have a look here: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ofers/svs-pb13

Who's saying otherwise I'm not bashing the BASH amps at all, I'm just saying the new Ultras might be even awesomer than what's described in that thread.


I've read this review. Quite compelling isn't it. It's hard to not buy one after reading this.

***

I've done a move riser-wise. It's a very small move. But it is one. Remember I had my SB12 on two foam pads of the kind found in kids playrooms. Well I changed that to two acoustic rubber pads that are meant to be put under hardwood or ceramic floors to reduce sound transmission. They're much denser than the foam pads.

I'm not sure if I hear a difference but at least my 20-mo daughter will have her foam pads back. To swap the pads I put my SB12 on a cushioned armchair beside its normal position. I decided to play "Emotion" by Daft Punk to test how it sounds (there's a repeating slow 4-note bass line in this song that is great to compare settings). So the sub was at least 1.5 ft high sitting on a big cushion, itself supported by springs and four legs, so it was probably more decoupled from the floor than with 1 in of foam pads. The difference was quite subtle, but there was less rattling from the air duct and less rumble felt in the footrest (which is a large cavity at the center of the room -- it vibrates and thus absorbs lots of energy at some frequencies). Alas I did not have time to test with a movie. Still, I'm unsure if the improvement would be worth the work for a DIY riser or the money for an Auralex GRAMMA.

Anyway my plan for a D.I.Y. riser, if I ever D.I., would be a rather elaborate project. In our lab at work some tables are isolated from the grounds with legs / pillars that are basically boxes filled with an alternance of sand, cork and bricks. It works even better than the industry-standard pneumatic legs. So my plan would be to make a ~1 ft high box built roughly the same way with the rubber pads on top and bottom. So the rubber pads are purchased....

Another consideration may not be relevant to you, but I'm glad my wife thought of it--I was seriously going to buy a PC until the wife pointed out that our cat might really enjoy his new, very expensive scratch post... ended up with the PB

The previous cat was a horizontal scratcher, so after a stern talk when my PC12-NSD arrived she understood to keep her paws off it.

The new cat, who is sitting in front of me reading this, is a vertical scratcher, so in addition to a very stern talk I also bought a nice tall scratching post and put it in the vicinity of the sub.

So far there has been no justifiable felicide.

A box sub might make a nice warm vibrating cat seat.

Is there a .pdf manual somewhere that I can read more about this STA-800H external amplifier? The Legato Dual Passive uses this amplifier but I cannot find it in the document library.

I would like to find out the followings:

1. Is the 800W RMS really is a 400W per channel since there are 2 outputs? And at what impedance (2-ohm, 4-ohm, or 8-ohm)?

1a. Can this amp be capable of powering an 800W RMS 4-ohm driver?

2. How high is the Low-Pass and High-Pass? Are they independent to each channel output?

I would email or phone SVS directly with those questions. But I agree those are legitimate and interesting; there's no Legato manual on the site. The Legato looks to me like two PC12 Plus (they have the same height, diameter and driver as the Plus). The Plus uses the STA-800D amp, which is 800W RMS. This is why I suspect the STA-800H amp may be 800W per channel. But it's not noted anywhere in the specs. I *think* the drivers are 4-ohms on the Pluses. I would figure the LP and HP filters are the same as in the STA-800D; not sure if they're independant, they could very well not be.

I have just sent them the questions. If it is a 800W RMS per channel plus a a DSP and custom built in LP/HP (independent or not), it's a good price. I would want to secure one even though I currently have no budget for a couple of $900 18" driver.

Has anyone upgraded their Bash PB12-Plus to the new Sledge amp? I thought there was going to be some sort of a trade in program. Any word on that?

Also, when is the SB13 supposed to be re-released and can I trade my Sledge SB12-NSD in for it?

Hmm, now you have me wondering how my stacked SB12nsds would stack up. As for the Sledge PB12+, I will only upgrade if the Bash quits working on the Plus.

Hey neutro


And the worst part is I got them hook to a 20 amp circuit just for them and to top it up I also got 2 Butt kicker with 2 mono 300 Watts power amp from Outlaw

I know the room is small (12 x 18 x 8) but it is cozy and well done with all the room acoustic but I was missing the tactical feel since it is on concrete with carpet

Ray

You guys that have the PB13 Ultra's in your HT systems, how did you get those mammoth
monsters into your theaters?

Did you go to the local gym and hire a couple of weightlifters, to get them into your homes
and do the subsequent "subwoofer crawl?"

Ok so you have the ideal listening room with acoustic treatment, no vibrating floor or rattling wall, etc. But then you had to add shakers

I know what you mean by tactical feel -- and I hate to be pedantic but I believe the right word would be "tactile" -- as in a feeling related to the sense of touch, when feeling vibrations in the air (or butt). However I *like* "tactical", as opposed to "strategic". Then again I guess dual Ultras cover both the tactical and strategic in terms of bass coverage. I'd believe the PBs, looking like tanks or bunkers, would be more tactical and the PCs, looking like ICBMs, would be more strategic


That's why keeping a small SB12 is handy -- you use it for sub crawling and once you find the right spot you install the PB13

That is exactly what i did when finding the proper placement of the dual SB12nsds and PB12plus in my main setup

Well. Anyone buying a 100+lbs, kW-class, $2k-range sub, should first have a pretty good idea where to install it before getting it delivered... Using a smaller sub to do the crawl just makes sense.

But how do you guys get those PB13-Ultras in your homes HT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeM1TZYT3ak

The audiophile's home movies

Anyone have experience with the PB-12Plus and the PB13-Ultra compared? Is the Ultra worth the extra $500......is the performance alot better or just slighly since I am trying to decide between the 2! Thx

I had two extra guys over to help.