Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 263

I'm currently running a PC12 and PB12 in my setup. My room is 25' by 35' with 8' high ceilings. The PB is located between my center and right front. The PC is located by my main seating area to the left about two feet from the side wall. I have level matched both subs and am running them 3 db hot from the center channel level. I am getting good bass performance. But I have noticed that on some intense LFE scenes the red light is coming on on both. Both sub's gain is set around 10 o'clock.

Here's my question. I'm thinking of adding a third sub, another PB12 to place between the left and center. Then move the PC12 directly behind the main listening position. It will be about 8 ft from the back wall, but when I do a sub crawl I'm getting good a response from that spot. I know 3 subs in a setup can sometimes be a negative, but I'm thinking it could help lessen the burden on my other two subs. Any thoughts?

Agreed -- the SB12 is not wimpy at all, probably not even compared to the PB12-NSD. But still, its main advantages with respect to the PB12-NSD are 1) its small size (sometimes a sub the size of the PB12-NSD is simply unacceptable), 2) its smaller price tag (though $100-130 isn't that much once you decide to drop around $700 on a sub) and 3) the gloss black piano finish that is available for the SB12 but not the PB12-NSD. It may or may not be important to a potential buyer, but if it is, consider that if you want something other than vinyl or black velvet, you have to pay twice the price for a PB12-Plus.

If you don't mind about the size, the finish, and throwing $130 more on the sub, then I think the PB12-NSD is the obvious choice over the SB12-NSD. I for one chose the SB12 specifically for those 3 reasons. Size is an issue in my small living room; the piano black finish is quite nice (and it was the only one available when I bought it), and the price was already quite a stretch from my initial $500 budget. So I'm totally satisfied with what the SB12 offers. But if I had more money at the time, and if the sub was not for the main living room but instead for a dedicated man-cave (which I don't have yet), well I would have jumped on the PB or PC.

The PB12 cabinet is sturdy enough but it will vibrate a lot. At the very least I'd put an acoustical foam pad between the two. The best would be a table under which the PB12 would fit.

Well it's normal to see the limiter LED coming on during LFE-intense scenes; unless it's continuously on that is. I haven't seen any drawback to three subs though, although it seems that the best results are obtained using 4 corner-loaded subs.
Edited by neutro - 6/11/12 at 7:01am

"Well it's normal to see the limiter LED coming on during LFE-intense scenes; unless it's continuously on that is. I haven't seen any drawback to three subs though, although it seems that the best results are obtained using 4 corner-loaded subs."[/quote]

Thanks for the response. I was always a little shaky on what the limiter light meant. Unfournatly I can't corner load behind my listening position because my room opens up on the right side, leaving me no corner. I think I'm gonna give 3 subs a shot with the third behind my main seating spot.

As far as I know, the limiter LED does not mean that the sub is in any danger. When the input signal translates to a woofer movement that is larger than what the driver is capable of, the limiter circuit is triggered, and changes the woofer trajectory (it does not just clip the output). It will provide a smooth movement but still within the woofer capabilities, minimizing distortion. Whenever the woofer position hits a certain threshold (below its max displacement), the limiter circuit is activated (hence the limiter LED lighting up) to ensure the smoothest trajectory to max displacement.

In that context, whenever you're approaching max displacement, the LED will flash. If the LED is constantly on, that would mean you're lacking headroom, constantly approaching max displacement. If it's only flashing or on during very loud scenes, it's all ok. For example, I EQ my SB12 and applied a house curve that boosts the low frequencies a bit. In scenes where there are very low freqs (which require very large displacements for them to be loud), when I listen at high volumes, the limiter lights up, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't sound bad at all. And this is ultimately the best indicator that you've reached the limits of what your sub can offer.

Corner loading is normally best avoided. But I just read an article on Audioholics saying that for 4 subs, the corners of a rectangular room are a better choice than the middle of the walls. I really don't know where are the best locations for 3 subs. This is a pretty rare configuration (I guess enthusiasts will go with two subs, or just go all the way with four), so you may want to read a bit first. But I don't think there's a specific drawback coming from 3 subs vs 2 or 4.

thanks neutro...I'll definitely keep that in mind about using a table!

guys, thanks for the responses and feedback. I went for a listen to subs in stores yesterday as i have never owned a sub before and i think the ported will be great be to be honest i think it will be too much with the low end for my neigbours to handle as i am in an apartment. Also i tended to like the sound of the sealed subs i listened to so I think if the other half will agree then the SB-12 will be the option. Appreciate the feedback from everyone.

Well there's no such thing as a neighbor-friendly subwoofer, honestly. In that department your gain will be your neighbor's loss and vice-versa. Bass really does travel well -- that's why you can hear the disco thumping hundreds of feet from a bar. And SVS makes good subs, much to your neighbor's future chagrin. I don't want to scare you, but you should be aware that you'll have to use your sub with civility if you're in an apartment, especially if it's not very well soundproofed.

That being said, you're lucky that your first sub will be an SVS. Most of us had to spend lots of money on sub-par retail subs before finding the bang-for-buck ratio that you'll get with an SVS sub (or many other ID sub makers). I'd say the SB12-NSD will probably be a *great* first sub for you; but even if it's sealed, don't count on that to reassure your neighbors. It is very capable, and in a small room, the low-end extension is quite surprising.

Anyway if you think your significant other and neighbors can take more, you can always trade it later for a bigger model with SVS.

Yes I can definately see myself being very concious of the neighbours. I am still very concerned with the SB but i will just have to check it out and go from there. With regards to the SVS i am very glad i came across them to be honest, they seem like such good bang for buck which is what i always like.

Out of curisity has anyone compared the SB-12 to a Paradigm Sub 12, i heard the Sub 12 and it was a great sub but well out of my price, especially here in Aus. Are they on a similar playing field or am I now expecting too much from the SB12?
Edited by Ouiff - 6/11/12 at 9:02pm

Make sure you come back and let us know your experience

I'd say the Studio Sub12 would fall somewhere between the SB13 and SB12 in output capability. The PBK thing is neat but it's not that useful if you already have Audyssey in your receiver. The Sub12 does sound very good but it's nearly 50% more than the SB13 so I removed it from consideration.

I don't want to discourage you from getting the SB12, far from it! and well, on the contrary! It's just that given the choice to annoy your neighbors with a sub-par subwoofer or with a good one, I'd say go with the good one But one of my ex-neighbors complained whenever something played on my crappy Creative 5.1 computer system. The sub was the size of a cantaloup and I guess it was 40W RMS -ish. Lighter than the SB12 driver alone. So whether you can use the SB12 freely or not will depend much more on your neighbors and apartment structure than the sub itself, in my opinion.

As for the Sub 12, as I noted a few posts back, I can't tell anything about how it sounds (never heard nor seen it). The specs on Paradigm's site are sparse, but it's still got 1700 W RMS, which is *lots*. It also sports a hefty price tag. Considering the amp alone it should have much more output than the SB12. Not sure about extension, articulation, etc. But again, not sure in Australia, but in Canada the Sub 12 is like twice the price of the SB12 or more. Given the Sub 12 price tag, things become very interesting in the SVS lineup

Do you mean the Studio SUB 12, or the Monitor SUB 12? I'm not familiar with the Monitor version, but I have heard the Studio version. It's a powerful sub that's in an entirely different class from the SB12-NSD.

If you are, in fact, comparing the SB12-NSD to the Studio SUB 12, you're definitely expecting too much from the SB12-NSD.

The power and price I quoted were indeed for the Studio SUB 12. I guess the SB12-NSD would be much closer to the Monitor SUB 12, but I'd expect the SB12 to have an edge on it.

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

Brian, i will definately let you know what i get if i do bite te bullet and get one.

It was the studio Sub 12 i was thinking. I definately didn't expect it to match the SB12 for output, like you guys mentioned, it's price is a lot higher, more than 3 times the price of the SB12 over here in Aus. I guess i was thinking in the sound it produced whether they were comparable rather than just output. Eljaycanuk, could you make any comments on just the sound between the two, the sub 12 sounded very controlled, is the SB12 like this.

I guess this would be be my 3-4 year sub, then once i can move into a house, hopefully a dedicate room, it will be time to bring out the big boys. This brings me to another question which wont affect my decision now at all but just good to know. If i was to get an SB12 now and in the future go for an SB13 plus or the PB13 ultra, would the SB12 intergrate with these in a room or not really.

You guys are great and i really apprecaite the help. I';m Still split down the middle as to whether to get one, I am definately concerned about the neighbours but figure if i listen during the da at volumes i like it's okay and at night then turn the sub down or use dolby volume or something.

I haven't heard the SB12-NSD, just read very good things about it. I have no doubt, however, that it will provide tight, clean output. But the Studio SUB 12 is a powerhouse 12" sub. My buddy's - in his ~15' x 18' x 8.5' = ~3,000 cu.ft. basement HT room - was capable of a tremendous amount of clean output w/ plenty of impact.

(He did end up selling it not too long after he bought it because he got a KILLER deal on a gently-used Servo-15 v2 from a friend of his and, as good as the SUB 12 was, the Servo-15 v2 was just that much better. (It noticeably dug deeper and hit harder.))
Curious: Given the cost of shipping subs to Australia, why not consider buying something like a PB12-Plus right away? Turn the gain down for now and, when you move into your house, turn the gain right back up again. Given the PB12-Plus's performance advantage over the SB12-NSD, you may find that you won't need a second sub, which could save you some cash down the road. Just a thought...
Edited by eljaycanuck - 6/12/12 at 3:47pm

Eljaycanuk

Thanks for the feedback again. The sub 12 impressed me but as mentioned it was a lot more expensive. SVS SB12 is more in my budget, we actually have a local distributor over here which means that i don't need to import the thing and also means there is warrenty coverage which is great. The price for the SB12 is more than in the USA but it's not to bad considering shipping, duty and sales tax, it'd certainly be nice to have it cheaper but it's a fair price.

I am thinking the SB12 for the price, even here in Aus is going to be the best bang for buck. I guess i just need to make a decision and then if it is to go with one, convince the other half

It seems to me you've already made your decision. So:
- best of luck convincing the other (better? ) half; and
- congratulations on your new sub!

Well this is the main problem with shopping expensive audio equipment. Chances of a first-hand account comparing two specific subs are rather slim. elijay has heard the SUB 12 but not the SB12. I have the SB12 but never heard the SUB 12. (That being said I did not listen to a lot of subs in my life either so I'm not your typical basshead).

That being said, I do find the SB12 quite stunning in its level of precision / control / detail / articulation; EQing it helped a bit in that department though, and I must mention that articulation is as much affected by the sub as it is by the room you're putting it, and placement inside that room. With a powerful sub it's easy to get a very boomy result in small rooms.

Anyway I was just going to mention that I was surprised how good music sound now with that sub. I bought it mainly for movies and games, but I'm really pleased with what I hear listening to electronica, but also other styles, including jazz. So I guess you could do much worse in terms of control and detail than the SB12. In fact I think all SVS's lineup is pretty much applauded in that regard. I just can't compare it directly to the Studio SUB 12.

I have not heard a sb12 but the sb13 I had sounded awesome. very solid, great output. never sounded stressed no matter how loud I listened or what I was listening to

hey folks,

I recently acquired a couple PB12-NSD last month and I've been highly impressed so far. Last Sunday, 1 of them started exhibiting some kind of "rhythmic chirp". I unhooked it from the a/v and no change. I've unplugged it for a while but to no avail. The chirp sound is not loud and stays the same even if I turn up the gain from the sub.

I'm not worried as it's still under warranty but until I get it fix, I was wondering if anything like this ever happened to any of you. It's a new sub so it's the Sledge amp, assuming it's the amp.

cheers

so your saying it does it even when no signal is going to it? have you tried other power outlets?

^^^
yup, it does it even when no signal sent to it and yes I've tried it in another outlet. Both of them were plugged in the same outlet from the start but only the one is exhibiting this problem.

sounds like the amp to me. svs will take care of you. they'll most likely just send out a new amp.

cool. I've sent an email to Sonicboomaudio (Canadian SVS dealer) but i'm out of town for the next 3 weeks:mad:, blows. Thanks for the reply, I also suspect it's the amp...well it can only be 2 things I suppose, driver or amp. Feel better now that somebody else things it's the amp and that everybody raves about SVS's customer service.

cheers

Well not to split hair but in your case you'll experience Sonicboomaudio's service. Well don't worry, it should be smooth If the amp is the problem, I guess they will ship you a new amp. The swap is supposed to be really easy.

Are you able to make a recording of the problem? If so I guess that could speed up things. But if you say it's there in one sub and not in the other, on the same outlet, with no signal, that pretty much settles it in my book...

If the chirp is not too loud then I hope you'll be able to enjoy your setup while waiting for the spare amp.

^^^
Well, I've been asked to call the "tech" guy so I did last night but the "tech" guy only works Monday, Wednesday and Friday:eek: and I'm out of town so I cant record anything. The broken sub isn't usable. Even when plugged to the avr, it does nothing but that "chirp" "chirp" "chirp". I've plugged in one of my old sub in it's place and it works fine so it's not the outlet nor the receiver's pre out.

Fom what I have read, Sonic Boom customer service pretty much mirrors SVS so you should be in good hands.

Okay, it *only* does chirp chirp Well in that case good call on ordering two of them
But seriously I understand that sucks. I'm sure SVS and Sonicboomaudio will make it right.


They don't mirror the SVS bill of rights, but you're right, as far as I can tell their service is quite good too. Well I only experienced it while buying though.

Good luck jp and tell us how it goes. Also report on your satisfaction level once the dual Pluses are up and running.

Right. Sonic boom doesn't have the Bill of rights. I meant more along the lines of how they treat customer issues.

As far as I can tell, Mason from SBA is on par with Ed from SVS in that department

That being said, as I bought my SB12 on the same day SVS adopted their bill of rights, I asked Mason about that specifically. He said that some of the "rights" will apply to canadian customers, but others not. This is how I understand it:

• Free shipping and toll-free number is not applicable (although curiously, many prices are discounted vs the SVS prices, so that probably evens out for many canadians, depending on exact location)
• 5-year warranty should apply -- although the sonicboomaudio website still mentions 3 years
• Price guarantee will apply
• No lemon policy will apply
• 1-year performance guarantee will apply
• 1-year trade-in period *will not* apply, but the 45-day satisfaction guarantee remains

This is from a personal exchange with Mason though. It would be great if those items appeared on SBA's website.