Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 266

Agreed. I sympathise with his desire to make the room look good as well as sound good, but there are many ways that a room can look good and still sound good. Moving the subs, for example, might make them sound better and also still look great. Moving his couch a foot or so from that back wall would undoubtedly help too, and I think it would still look just fine. As it stands the room is incredibly reflective and that is the first thing I would probably want to take care of it it were my room. Personally, I would lay some nice thick carpet - I know the wood floor looks great but then so does a nice carpet and it would immediately make such a difference. Then I’d get some treatments up - maybe using those that disguise themselves as artworks. Then I would tweak the positions of the mains and subs and pull that centre speaker forward by an inch or so, so that the leading edge clears the cabinet it is in. And I'd buy a PJ and good screen of course. Isn’t it great spending someone else's money?

Even an area rug in front of the main and center speakers (and removing the coffee table) would make a significant difference without hiding the beauteous wood floor. Since we're spending other people's money, an antique Oriental rug with a nice, thick pad would be just the thing.

BTW, I wonder if the TV picture reflects off the floor and/or the coffee table. I had a small coffee table in front of my listening chair and removed it because of the distracting reflection. And then I realized what the table was doing to the sound from my center channel...

 

:)  Yes indeed. And it would look terrific too. That table would have to go - so many potential problems caused by reflections from that. Side tables by the couch could replace it for holding essentials (beer).

 

 

 

Never even though of that - good point. I would just never consider a hard, reflective surface between the centre speaker and the MLP.

Would a gramma help with even a sb12? I mean this thing rattles everything in the house lol

Actually it kinda now seems like a stupid question. But ill leave it...

I had my center channel in a cabinet under my TV, and I realize how much better it sounds since it's been pulled out and placed in front of the cabinet. Unfortunately the TV is at my eye level when seated, and now the TV reflects off the top of the center channel speaker. So I had to cover that nice B&W white oak finish with a black towel.

Well I wondered the same But even though everyone seem very satisfied with grammas and subdudes, I still think the stuff is very expensive for what it is. I'm kinda planning on building a riser. For that I bough two acoustical rubber mats intended to be put under wood or ceramic floors at my local hardware store. Since of course I delayed the riser project indefinitely (like so many other projects of mine), I just put the two rubber mats under the SB12 and I must admit it made a surprising difference even comparing to what I had before (soft foam mats for a kid's room). The rubber mats are much denser and seem to absorb low frequencies more efficiently. It's still not perfect but in that regard I guess even a Gramma isn't.


I'm planning on doing the same (putting my center channel on top of my cabinet/console so it's at ear level). This will mean hanging my TV on the wall, which everybody agrees is a good idea, but is easier said than done in my house (the wall has horizontal braces so if I want to hide the wires inside the wall, lots of work needs to be done). Also the TV will be higher by a few inches, which I fear will be less comfortable. But we're either audio purists, or video purists, or we make compromises, because eyes and ears are alas at the same vertical level, meaning that the center channel and TV can't both be there (unless you go the acoustically transparent projection screen route). Writing in this thread we tend to be more of audio purists so to hell with the TV, it will have to go higher

Was wondering if your Auralex's are Great Grammas or just Grammas since I am looking into getting some maybe! thx

And, I'm glad you did it. Now, I can work on a couple of things to improve sound at my room. So, any other observation / comment will be highly appreciated.

Ok. I moved the couch 14" from the wall.............see I'm willing to cooperate here.........LOL.

I was thinking on adding a new carpet (actually wife is the one pushing on that area...........so that's a win for me). I wasn't sure about what type of carpet, but now I know it must be a thick carpet.

I found several weeks ago the Next Acoustics products and they have a product called "CityBlox Hybrid" that it seems you can actually use as artworks. Here is the link if you want to check the demo pics of this product:

http://nextacoustics.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=1

My only question is: what kind of material do you need to use for the artwork/pic printout? I mean, it should be a material that will absorb the sound wave instead of reflecting it. Right?

Center speaker has been pulled forward 1" forward.

I'm ready to buy the PJ and screen.........I just need your credit card number.................

Question: Can I use the Velodyne SMS-1 mic with REW?

Thanks, I'll be looking for a thick area rug in the next days. About the coffee table, I totally understand what you are saying, but there is a reason for that table, bring food, drinks and other stuff while watching a movie, big game, special show at the TV, soap opera..........wait what!?!?!

Scratch that last part........LOL.

To be honest, TV reflection is not a problem, well I didn't think about that until now. But, you just mentioned and for sure I'll be keeping an eye on that.

Anyway, let me add first the thick carpet. And, right after that, I'll try to watch a couple of movies with and without the coffee table to compare the sound impact on my HT.

Thanks again for taking the time and share your comments/recommendations with me!

You are totally right! There is always the option to build your own raiser.

I look for information on that and people actually use the SVS subwoofer packing material to build the riser (saving some cost there). I thought about that multiple times, but my problem is time. I like DIY projects, but after I built my AV console and an relatives visiting us at home, my time was reduced dramatically. So, I just pulled the trigger and bough a pair of Great Grammas.

Please post some pics of your risers as soon they are done!

I found that risers do make a difference if your on a sub floor

Heu Guys, I was just wondering what the gamma are supposed to do? I am new to the sub world and still haven't pulled the trigger but I think I am turning the other half to allow it (the force is strong with this one ) Been reading about these gamma products on this thread from everyone and was wondering what they are supposed to do and what their purpose is?

Cheers

Along the same lines -- is there any benefit to adding a riser beneath your sub if your HT's located in the basement on a concrete floor? In other words, do risers do more than just isolate the vibrations from the floor? Thanks!

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Ha ha well don't hold your breath. As I said, that project is on hold like so many others. It seems that finding even 1-2 hours for that kind of things is becoming almost impossible when you have kids. I barely find time to mow the lawn. I see so perfectly the appeal of throwing money at the problem But regarding my situation, I don't have an Ultra -- a mere SB12 -- and while it's able to shake the room alright, just putting the rubber mats underneath fixed the worst resonances. The sub is reasonably decoupled from the floor now.

+1 on actually doing the experiment. If the difference is large enough then you'll either move the table or find a suitable replacement. If it's not large enough then problem solved. I found that many of the effects discussed in audio threads here are indeed present but often rather subtle. For example, reflections on the floor. I used REW to make a few HT freq response measurements from 0 to about 200 Hz (i.e. sub + mains involved, crossed over at 80 Hz). There was a huge null around 90-100 Hz. The funny thing was, when I raised the crossover at 100 Hz and more, the null disappeared. When it was below, the null was there. The diagnostic seemed to be comb filtering effects from the main (i.e. direct path and reflected path -- from the floor and/or ceiling -- interfering with each other). Well, I felt good finding the problem but in reality the null is so narrow that I didn't notice any difference with the sub crossed at 80 or 100 Hz. Maybe I should have listened to a variety of material to really experience it but in the end I have other things to do with my time.

That being said, our solution for the coffee table problem was to buy a large cushioned footrest that also doubles as storage space (it opens up, clam shell-style). Much more comfortable than our previous hard coffee table. For the drinks and popcorn, we use a breakfast tray that we always leave in proximity.

There are three main purposes of risers and similar products.

1. It raises the sub away from the corner formed by the floor and the wall. Placing a sub near corners reinforces bass but also creates dips and bumps in the frequency response and spatial distribution of the bass around the room.
2. It decouples the sub from the floor, preventing shaking and rattling of nearby objects and structures. On top of being annoying, rattling is caused by systems that absorb the sub's radiated energy at specific frequencies, creating dips in the audible frequency response.
3. It acts as a bass trap, preventing reflections of sound from directly under the sub.

Those treatments look pretty cool. Especially the ones with the album covers. Those might be nice on my sidewall.

I have a SB12-NSD which I use to listen to music and movies around -25 to -30.
The limiter light has never gone on before.

I keep reading about PB12-NSD and how much deeper it goes for movies but it's size is bigger.
I keep wondering if I really missing something using a sealed instead of a ported box.
I'm tempted to upgrade to from SB12-NSD to PB12-NSD or maybe dual SB12-NSD.
Room is about 12 X 16 X 8, with small hallway opening.

Is there anyone who's played with both please give me their feedback.
Would I hear a noticeable difference with PB12-NSD for movies playing at -25 to -30 for movies?
Which would be the better upgrade? PB12-NSD or 2nd SB12-NSD?

Thanks!

:)  OK - that's a good start. Remember you will need to run Audyssey again (you do have Audyssey??) every time you make changes to the room.

 

 

Yes - a decently thick carpet will do the job nicely, and look and feel good too.

 

The material must be acoustically transparent like speaker grille cloth. Have a look at this article by Ethan Winer - it's pretty much a definitive guide to treatments and traps:

 

Ethan Winer - all-round cool dude and authority on room treatments

 

Then take a look at the Real Traps website by clicking here

 

There are also companies who make treatments that look like artworks right out of the box. Try this site:

 

Audimute custom image galleries

 

 

 

Good plan. Remember to re-run Audyssey. (What AVR do you have?)

 

 

 

Well, you'd probably spend less than Mrs Keith does on it, so that might be a deal :)

 

 

 

Don't know. I went the OmniMic route.

I'm not sure why I'm posting since I don't have anything intelligent to provide in terms of advice. But I'm exactly in your situation (exactly the same room size, with a single SB12). Never heard the PB12-NSD. But fiddling with sub position, using rubber mats under it to limit rattling, and EQing it using a BFD and REW, I think I managed to squeeze a bit more out of it. Combined with the rather large room gain that we get from a room this small, I'm pretty sure the results aren't bad at all. I measured a frequency response in which I had surprising in-room extension even below 20 Hz. The point is, the SB12 is not a toy -- it's a real sub.

One day I will upgrade -- I'm just too hooked up now but I think I'll accumulate wealth and treat myself with a more drastic upgrade, to either a plus or Ultra. In fact my long-term plan is to reno the basement and transition the home theater there. I'll move all the audio gear down, but we will need some way to play music upstairs. So I'll have to get an amp and speakers with which the small SB12 will be perfect. The new HT room will get the upgrade...

That being said, I'm still juggling with different upgrade paths. A second SB12 would be very nice too in my current room although WAF would be low. The second sub would do wonders for bass uniformity across the room. But I wonder if dropping the money for a second SB12 would be worth it vs saving it for a Plus or Ultra. Also, we listen to very low volumes (never above -20, typically -25 here too), so apart from low-end extension, we don't need extra output that much (for now).

So my advice, if any, would be to wait and upgrade for something bigger; in the mean time, try to squeeze as much as you can from the SB12.

I just thought of something though. If you're in the US (chances are that you are) then you can use SVS' upgrade policy. I asked Ed Mullen from SVS earlier in this thread and he agreed that this upgrade policy would apply on upgrading from a single SB12 to dual-SB12s as there is now a package for that. Thus you could have a second SB12 for about $100 less than the regular price. Of course you can also have full credit for your SB12 toward a PB12 or bigger sub, minus fees for shipping it back, if your SB12 is less than a year old.

I'm giving serious consideration to running a quad setup of SB-12 utilizing this these methods. I've had plenty of big, monster output subs but I'm always limited by that size on where I could place them within the room.

I'll have to read that article. That being said, we quoted Ed Mullen from SVS previously as having said that to equal the output of a single PB13-Ultra, it would take 4 SB13s. Not SB12s mind you. So if you're accustomed to monster subs maybe you'll be disappointed. I think above 25 Hz, four SB12s would sound fantastic, but unless you can count on lots of room gain, you'd be lacking at 20 Hz and below compared to a single Ultra (which would be much less expensive than 4 SB12s).

Those subwoofers look too big, they screw up your room decor in an otherwise beautiful room. You should have gone with black instead of brown, black subs would have blended better with the rest of your equipment. They brown subs stick out which draws attention to their size. Also, as others have mentioned, a large screen is imperative. Right now you have about 90% audio and about 10% video. One of those subs looks about the same size as your screen.

Well lucky for me, if that is a problem I can throw my LMS-18" in the mix.

But hopefully by the time I am ready to try this, SVS will have the SB-13 (or comparable) back in the line-up.

Now, I just need to find out on the material used to print the album cover and I might be pulling the trigger on a couple of them.

Valid points. But, I didn't have the cash to buy the Ultras on black. And, the deal that I found for these subs was to hard to let it pass....

Of course, I do have the option on actually change my A9s from Black to Cherry. But, amazingly I do like the contrast created between the towers and the subs.

Yep, the screen is an issue now, but I'm missing $3K in my bank account in order to do that... Of course, there are less expensive projectors, but I want an Epson 5010 + fixed screen. So, I do have a game plan, problem is I don't have the funds.......LOL.

Cheers!

He should throw them out and I will haul them away for him:)

They are not big............they are sexy..........look at those bodies......



:D:D

I need some advice. I have a 5 year old PB10. I recently purchased an Onkyo tx 3009. I would like to take advantage of the xt32 capabilities. I don't have the room or funds for another SVS. I'm looking for a smaller less expensive sub to try to mate with my PB10. Preferably something I can buy on amazon as I have a gift card I would like to use.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,

Howard.