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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 273

post #8161 of 15609
Nope -- prices for SVS products are rarely discounted anyways, and even less so in Canada. That being said the prices are already slightly lower in Canada because shipping has to be added (shipping fees vary depending on location).
post #8162 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Nope -- prices for SVS products are rarely discounted anyways, and even less so in Canada. That being said the prices are already slightly lower in Canada because shipping has to be added (shipping fees vary depending on location).

Upon ordering my second SVS sub, I took a chance and emailed the guys at sonicboomaudio. I was offered a small discount on the web price. My previous purchase was just a few months earlier for exactly the same model (SB12) - not sure if this is why I got the discount. Maybe worth a try...

It is great to have at least one Canadian distributor that does not feel like its primary duty is to charge an extra 50% over US prices. biggrin.gif
post #8163 of 15609
Quote:
I was offered a small discount on the web price. My previous purchase was just a few months earlier ... not sure if this is why I got the discount.
SBA offers a 5% (IIRC) discount to repeat customers. It may not be a huge discount, but it's better than kick in the head! smile.gif
post #8164 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

SBA offers a 5% (IIRC) discount to repeat customers. It may not be a huge discount, but it's better than kick in the head! smile.gif

Certainly better. Depending on where you live, it pays for shipping on the SB12 rolleyes.gif Or for the black glossy finish (well almost).

Barracuda's right though, for once with SBA we don't feel ripped off.
post #8165 of 15609
Well the SB13 arrived over the weekend after a lot of work with the courier company to get their act together. I spent about an hour trying different locations using the quick measure tool in my Anthem reciever which shows room response. I must admit my room is terrible and also isn't sealed so is essentially quite large. It looked to me that the best spot was on the right of the cabinet as can be seen in the photo. Watched the first three star wars movies and was quite impressed. Also made a tweak to the settings in the Anthem reciever after a suggestion from someone in that thread and then put on Tron and this really showed how low the SB13 can go.

I am new to subs so probably not the best to review or comment in some sense but so far i am happy. I would have thought i would get a bit more on the music front, i guess mostly bass guitar, where as i was thinking i would get some good punch out of beats from drums but i guess these frequencies aren't set for the sub by the recieve (which i will trust as it knows better than i do with the settings). So i was expecting i would see a little more on the music side of things, especially with say r 'n' b but it's all good. Movies though i didn't expect as good as what I got. Being in an apartment i don't want to crank it too loud and since running into the neighbour about a month or so ago and him saying he could hear the tv i have since dropped back my listening level a bit. So i wasn't listening at loud levels but even so i definately noticed a new layer to movies. I put on Tron after the little tweak in the reciever and it was just amazing to hear the low frequency and what it adds to a movie, I felt like i was watching Tron in 4D, was really nice. I might crank it loud today for the second half of Tron just to see what it can do. I could definately feel it's controlled potential when listening. It wont be a for a few years but once i get the dedicated room and can seal the sub in a reasonable size room i can only imagine what it would be like

The actual bass seemed clean, accurate, articulate and complimented the rest of the speakers very nicely. It blended with the system perfectly, not standing out and adding that extra layer, i guess i put this up to the anthem in it's processing and also the sub being what it is. Very impressed so far and looking to explore this new world i have just opened.

Thanks to everyone on here who gives their time to answer not just mine but everyones questions, it certainly makes things easier and is a big help to us new to this. Any comments or questions please feel free to fire them at me.

Cheers
Heath

450
post #8166 of 15609
okay so i have sat down for more listening in the last hour for some music and it is definately much more noticeable than i thought, i think the tracks i was listening to on the weekend weren't doing it justice. Put some more r 'n' b on and defintatley see the difference. With alot of oter music it is more subtle but adds a nice layer to the tracks and compliments rather than overpowers which is what is desired after all. As for the tracks that let it shine, all i can say is nothing but nice clean bass, it lets the frequency carry for the right time without lagging too long if that makes sense. Exactly what i was after in a sub, not boomy or muffled at all. Hoping to get an aurolex gamma in the next few weeks so i'll be interested to see if this impacts it at all but very happy with the purchase.
post #8167 of 15609
the more i listen to and watch makes me fall in love even more, super happy with this sub. I cranked it loudly for a brief 20 second period in tron just to see what it was like and gee it's good. Sorry to post so much, just giving the feed back on the SVS, couldn't be happier and i sure I'm just going to continue to get happier with this beast smile.gif
post #8168 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouiff View Post

the more i listen to and watch makes me fall in love even more, super happy with this sub. I cranked it loudly for a brief 20 second period in tron just to see what it was like and gee it's good. Sorry to post so much, just giving the feed back on the SVS, couldn't be happier and i sure I'm just going to continue to get happier with this beast smile.gif

If you think your happy now, just wait until you add another SB13.
For maximum impact, you need at least two identical subwoofers.

I have a rather small home theater.
So I'am only running dual PB12-NSD subs.
But that second subwoofer makes such a HUGE difference, in the enjoyment of both movies and music.
It's a no brainer!
post #8169 of 15609
Heath, your setup looks good with that sub smile.gif I'm glad you finally like it. But I want to say I've been through roughly the same phases as you regarding to music. I have a few remarks concerning that point. First, all music is not created equal. Some music has much more bass than others. Also they're not mixed the same. Some pop/dance music out there are mixed with lots of boosted bass so that it sounds half good on cheap systems at low volume (e.g. entry level car stereos). In my experience that often sounds terrible at home. If your receiver use some kind of mp3 correction processing, sometimes that adds bass and can lead to very bloated sound. Or if you use low-bitrate compressed music *without* compression correction, sometimes it lacks quite a bit of bass. All of this is rather frustrating, leading to one song sounding really good and the next one not so much.

Another thing to consider is that once you have that sub in your room, the response of the sub (which is exceptionally flat if placed outside) becomes full of peaks and valley. Some songs will hit bass notes right into the peaks, sounding powerful and authoritative. Other songs (or part of the same song) will hit the lows and sound kind of "meh". There are two basic solutions to that once you find a good location (as you did) for the sub. The first solution is to make measurements and then try to EQ the sub to reduce the peaks and boosts the valleys (and/or find better locations for the sub). The second solution is to add a second sub to even out the frequency response and the bass variations across your room. Both solution can be relatively expensive but of course EQing is the cheapest.

In my case, I opted for EQing. The song "Emotion" by Daft Punk is not that remarkable -- it's very simple -- but the bass line is great with a good song. It's simply the 4 notes E1 A1 C2 D2 repeated over and over again (41.20, 55.00, 65.41 and 73.4 Hz respectively). I clearly heard one or two notes louder than the others and I thought they were probably meant to be played at the same loudness. I purchased an SPL meter and a Behringer DSP1124P: coupled with the great, free REW software, I was able to EQ the sub reasonably well. The main result of this was that the sound from the sub sounded quite... bland actually smile.gif Instead of bumping the gain though I dialed in a "house curve", that is, having an equalizer, I applied a gentle EQ curve that boosted the very low frequencies. To my ears, the four notes in "Emotion" are now pretty much the same volume, and down closer to 20 Hz, the sub gives more punch at low volume (at higher volume I guess I hit the sub's limits though). Anyway, what I wanted to say was that sometimes, the music and the room are the problem, and that song is quite useful for diagnostics (and also positioning).
post #8170 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

If you think your happy now, just wait until you add another SB13.
For maximum impact, you need at least two identical subwoofers.
I have a rather small home theater.
So I'am only running dual PB12-NSD subs.
But that second subwoofer makes such a HUGE difference, in the enjoyment of both movies and music.
It's a no brainer!

Coolcat4843

I'd love two subs and i am thinking of that once i finally move into a house (hopefully with a dedicated room) but for now if i even mentioned that the missus would probably chase after me with a knife aimed at the parts on my body which i rather much more than a second sub smile.gif no she isn't like that at all. The other thing is that being in an apartment it would maybe be too much for the neighbours, already i need to be very mindful and respectful of them.

I will definately think about duals when i have the dedicated though, my only concern here is that the SB-13 plus that i have is now discontinued and by the time i would order a second one in couple of years time i wont be able to get one that matches, so in this case do i just get the closest thing in the SVS range at the time or do i need to sell the SB13 i have now and get two identical (i am afraid i wont want to part with the SB13, it's too nice). That is something i am a little concerned about.
post #8171 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Heath, your setup looks good with that sub smile.gif I'm glad you finally like it. But I want to say I've been through roughly the same phases as you regarding to music. I have a few remarks concerning that point. First, all music is not created equal. Some music has much more bass than others. Also they're not mixed the same. Some pop/dance music out there are mixed with lots of boosted bass so that it sounds half good on cheap systems at low volume (e.g. entry level car stereos). In my experience that often sounds terrible at home. If your receiver use some kind of mp3 correction processing, sometimes that adds bass and can lead to very bloated sound. Or if you use low-bitrate compressed music *without* compression correction, sometimes it lacks quite a bit of bass. All of this is rather frustrating, leading to one song sounding really good and the next one not so much.
Another thing to consider is that once you have that sub in your room, the response of the sub (which is exceptionally flat if placed outside) becomes full of peaks and valley. Some songs will hit bass notes right into the peaks, sounding powerful and authoritative. Other songs (or part of the same song) will hit the lows and sound kind of "meh". There are two basic solutions to that once you find a good location (as you did) for the sub. The first solution is to make measurements and then try to EQ the sub to reduce the peaks and boosts the valleys (and/or find better locations for the sub). The second solution is to add a second sub to even out the frequency response and the bass variations across your room. Both solution can be relatively expensive but of course EQing is the cheapest.
In my case, I opted for EQing. The song "Emotion" by Daft Punk is not that remarkable -- it's very simple -- but the bass line is great with a good song. It's simply the 4 notes E1 A1 C2 D2 repeated over and over again (41.20, 55.00, 65.41 and 73.4 Hz respectively). I clearly heard one or two notes louder than the others and I thought they were probably meant to be played at the same loudness. I purchased an SPL meter and a Behringer DSP1124P: coupled with the great, free REW software, I was able to EQ the sub reasonably well. The main result of this was that the sound from the sub sounded quite... bland actually smile.gif Instead of bumping the gain though I dialed in a "house curve", that is, having an equalizer, I applied a gentle EQ curve that boosted the very low frequencies. To my ears, the four notes in "Emotion" are now pretty much the same volume, and down closer to 20 Hz, the sub gives more punch at low volume (at higher volume I guess I hit the sub's limits though). Anyway, what I wanted to say was that sometimes, the music and the room are the problem, and that song is quite useful for diagnostics (and also positioning).

Neutro

Thanks for this info. I certainly agree with you on all fronts and it's something i am realising as i listen to more music, i think my initial email on the music front was a tad premature as I have since done more listening and it's very impressive here. For music i try and listen to files that are above 320kbps. Many that i have are over 1000 so that is good, i certainly noticed the difference when they are under 320.

With the EQ, it's probably the best thing about the reciever i have is the room correction, i used this to help me with the sub placement and tried a few different positions and even angels and the best uncorrected spot was where it is now. With this i then ran the room correction software and it looks as though it has come out pretty good. Below is the average measurements for 5 seating positions with the Anthem reciever. The red line in uncorrected and the green line is corrected. This also controls the cross over targets and roll offs and knowing the software is better than what I am at this I have left it to do it's thing and not change anything other than letting the sub run to flat (well i think it starts to roll off at 20hz) as the sub has built in protection. The other thing it does is help set the sub volume for intergration with the other speaker, so if i turned up the sub it would be louder but then it would probably start to over power and really wouldn't sound natural. Feel free to ask any questions about the graph or reciever. Not sure if you guys have heard much about these recievers but i will say they are damn fine. The room correction is awesome and the tool that helps with placement really does help, it is limited in it's features a little but the sound is excellent. Anyway fire any comments or suggestions to me.

198
post #8172 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouiff View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

If you think your happy now, just wait until you add another SB13.
For maximum impact, you need at least two identical subwoofers.
I have a rather small home theater.
So I'am only running dual PB12-NSD subs.
But that second subwoofer makes such a HUGE difference, in the enjoyment of both movies and music.
It's a no brainer!

Coolcat4843

I'd love two subs and i am thinking of that once i finally move into a house (hopefully with a dedicated room) but for now if i even mentioned that the missus would probably chase after me with a knife aimed at the parts on my body which i rather much more than a second sub smile.gif no she isn't like that at all. The other thing is that being in an apartment it would maybe be too much for the neighbours, already i need to be very mindful and respectful of them.

I will definately think about duals when i have the dedicated though, my only concern here is that the SB-13 plus that i have is now discontinued and by the time i would order a second one in couple of years time i wont be able to get one that matches, so in this case do i just get the closest thing in the SVS range at the time or do i need to sell the SB13 i have now and get two identical (i am afraid i wont want to part with the SB13, it's too nice). That is something i am a little concerned about.

I can't imagine living in an apartment with a sub, especially one as potent as yours. My love of hi-fi gear is one reason I have a house, even tho I'm a renter (single, no kids, no reason to own at this point...heck the property tax alone would be 60% of my current rent). I even worry about my neighbors as it is especially when I want something loud after midnight! I don't think it's critical to have matching subs myself but maybe I just need convincing...am currently experimenting with two very different subs and although no measurements yet, sounds great.
post #8173 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouiff View Post

my only concern here is that the SB-13 plus that i have is now discontinued and by the time i would order a second one in couple of years time i wont be able to get one that matches, so in this case do i just get the closest thing in the SVS range at the time or do i need to sell the SB13 i have now and get two identical (i am afraid i wont want to part with the SB13, it's too nice). That is something i am a little concerned about.

Don't worry about that smile.gif If you go back a couple of pages you'll see a raging debate about dual subs. If you really want two subs (which would indeed be very nice) you'll have lots of options. First, you could get a used SB13-Plus to complement your own. Second, the new SB13-Ultra will probably have exactly the same components so it should integrate quite well with your SB13-Plus. Third, you could always sell your SB13-Plus and buy a pair of new, matching subs. That is, if you don't go for a single sub twice as expensive wink.gif
post #8174 of 15609
Neutro

You make some good points, i think i will just have to wait and see what is out when (if) that time comes and then work out if they will intergrate and if not then like you said sell it and get two of the same.

Either way I am one happy fella for now. You guys on here really do a great job in helping newbies like me. SVS are also very good in their support and the local distributor here in Aus was also very helpful. I have a couple of weeks off in August so i will be enjoying making the most of this biggrin.gif
post #8175 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouiff View Post

Neutro
You make some good points, i think i will just have to wait and see what is out when (if) that time comes and then work out if they will intergrate and if not then like you said sell it and get two of the same.

Yes, and one thing is 100% certain. When it's time to upgrade, whenever it is, there will be great subs available for us from SVS and other ID manufacturers.
Quote:
Either way I am one happy fella for now. You guys on here really do a great job in helping newbies like me.

I guess we just pay it forward. I only had my sub for 8 months now, I'm still a newbie too, but I learned a lot here. I went from "needing 20Hz extension is preposterous" to measuring room response and EQing my sub in less than a year. Might happen to you, too biggrin.gif

As for you being happy, this is the only thing that matters in the end. Try to resist the temptation to "keep up with the Joneses". You already have a sub that makes me salivate.

Speaking of which, a guy's selling a NIB piano black SB12-NSD for $550 on canuckaudiomart. Someone please buy it before I do.
post #8176 of 15609
I'm not reading lots of comparisons between SVS and other ID subs in this thread, so I'm not sure if I'm violating some taboo. Sorry if I do. But I ended up on Rythmik's web page and wonder about their F12 sub. Basically it's a 12" sealed servo-controlled sub with a 370-W RMS amp, so the basic specs are a lot like the SB12. However they claim a -2 dB point at 14 Hz. They don't mention the measurement method. I'm guessing this can't be quasi-anechoic (i.e. outdoors) as much bigger ported subs such as the Ultras achieve in comparison a -3 dB point of 16 Hz. Can anyone confirm this is in-room? Or maybe near-field? Granted, the F12 is a bit more expensive than the SB12 but I have trouble imagining the F12 could be that much better. Any comment?
post #8177 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm not reading lots of comparisons between SVS and other ID subs in this thread, so I'm not sure if I'm violating some taboo. Sorry if I do. But I ended up on Rythmik's web page and wonder about their F12 sub. Basically it's a 12" sealed servo-controlled sub with a 370-W RMS amp, so the basic specs are a lot like the SB12. However they claim a -2 dB point at 14 Hz. They don't mention the measurement method. I'm giuessing this can't be quasi-anechoic (i.e. outdoors) as much bigger ported subs such as the Ultras achieve in comparison a -3 dB point of 16 Hz. Can anyone confirm this is in-room? Or maybe near-field? Granted, the F12 is a bit more expensive than the SB12 but I have trouble imagining the F12 could be that much better. Any comment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm not reading lots of comparisons between SVS and other ID subs in this thread, so I'm not sure if I'm violating some taboo. Sorry if I do. But I ended up on Rythmik's web page and wonder about their F12 sub. Basically it's a 12" sealed servo-controlled sub with a 370-W RMS amp, so the basic specs are a lot like the SB12. However they claim a -2 dB point at 14 Hz. They don't mention the measurement method. I'm guessing this can't be quasi-anechoic (i.e. outdoors) as much bigger ported subs such as the Ultras achieve in comparison a -3 dB point of 16 Hz. Can anyone confirm this is in-room? Or maybe near-field? Granted, the F12 is a bit more expensive than the SB12 but I have trouble imagining the F12 could be that much better. Any comment?


the f12 is a great sub but it doesn't say what spl it hit 14hz at. this would be better answered in the Rythmik thread
post #8178 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

the f12 is a great sub but it doesn't say what spl it hit 14hz at. this would be better answered in the Rythmik thread

+1 The Rythmik is a bit over 40 percent more external volume (size) than the SB12, so it has a potential advantage there. In general, third party measurements have coincided with Rythmik's published specs pretty closely, muchlike those for SVS.Brian from rythmik has posted relative output at 20 Hz for the various subs, but not absolute numbers.
post #8179 of 15609
One thing about subs in general, there isn't any magic going on and the laws of physics still applies, so while I have no doubt that the F12 will give more extension, it probably only does so at only low output levels. The main reason to buy the Rythmiks is for their servo technology and ultimately it's supposed to "sound better". I would love to see any of their sealed subs measured to see exactly how much of a gain one gets by spending more.
post #8180 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm not reading lots of comparisons between SVS and other ID subs in this thread, so I'm not sure if I'm violating some taboo. Sorry if I do. But I ended up on Rythmik's web page and wonder about their F12 sub. Basically it's a 12" sealed servo-controlled sub with a 370-W RMS amp, so the basic specs are a lot like the SB12. However they claim a -2 dB point at 14 Hz. They don't mention the measurement method. I'm guessing this can't be quasi-anechoic (i.e. outdoors) as much bigger ported subs such as the Ultras achieve in comparison a -3 dB point of 16 Hz. Can anyone confirm this is in-room? Or maybe near-field? Granted, the F12 is a bit more expensive than the SB12 but I have trouble imagining the F12 could be that much better. Any comment?

That spec is outdoor, ground plane. The Rythmik has built in EQ to boost the low end. Their amps also have controls to adjust the EQ and have an adjustable high pass filter. Like others have said, a -2db spec is almost worthless without also noting the SPL. Although the SVS Ultras have a "worse" -3db spec, they will have more max output at all frequencies than the F12 and their FR will stay the same to a higher level.

It isn't the F12, but here is a test of a Rythmik 12" DIY sub. As you can see, at the lowest level sweep, it does have extension below 15hz, but as the level is increased, the shape of the FR changes dramatically. The site also has test of the older Bash PB13-ultra for comparison.

367

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5756-diy-rythmik-audio-direct-servo-12-sealed-56l.html

-Mike
post #8181 of 15609
Very deep extension specs (below 20Hz) looks good on paper but it's only useful if the sub is powerful enough to put out those frequencies without compressing. The lower the frequency. the more output you need before you start to notice it as your ear is much less sensitive to very deep bass. It takes a very large sub to put out enough deep bass for you to notice in the average sized living room.

Most good sub designs filter the very deep bass to make sure the sub isn't trying to reproduce frequencies it shouldn't be trying to. It's a balancing act between output, distortion, and extension.
post #8182 of 15609
Thanks guys for those explanations. As we saw in Audioholics' review, it's the same with the SB12: there's already a built-in EQ that boosts the low-end and flatness is compromised at higher levels once compression kicks in. The FR for the F12 is impressive anyway if it's outdoors, even if only at moderate volume. Indeed, the F12 has 43% more cabinet volume so that may be one of the main reason why it got a better extension.

That SB12 on canuckaudiomart still isn't sold by the way (and the same guy has a NIB PC12-NSD too).

Maybe I could buy it, hide it behind the couch and not tell my GF.
post #8183 of 15609
Another quick question as I'm exploring the financial aspects of getting a second SB12 (either the one on canuckaudiomart or a new one entirely, maybe later though).

I'm currently using a BFD to EQ my sub. What would be the process of EQ'ing two subs? Should the two of them be jointly EQ'ed, for example splitting the output of the BFD to each sub? Or should the subs be EQ'ed indepandantly, for example, splitting the sub pre out of the receiver, sending each half to a separate channel of the BFD, EQ'ing first one sub, then the other, before activating both? My AVR has a single sub pre out and cannot EQ the sub channel(s).
post #8184 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Another quick question as I'm exploring the financial aspects of getting a second SB12 (either the one on canuckaudiomart or a new one entirely, maybe later though).
I'm currently using a BFD to EQ my sub. What would be the process of EQ'ing two subs? Should the two of them be jointly EQ'ed, for example splitting the output of the BFD to each sub? Or should the subs be EQ'ed indepandantly, for example, splitting the sub pre out of the receiver, sending each half to a separate channel of the BFD, EQ'ing first one sub, then the other, before activating both? My AVR has a single sub pre out and cannot EQ the sub channel(s).

you would first want to level match them and check for phase issues with a spl meter. then EQ them together.
post #8185 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Another quick question as I'm exploring the financial aspects of getting a second SB12 (either the one on canuckaudiomart or a new one entirely, maybe later though).
I'm currently using a BFD to EQ my sub. What would be the process of EQ'ing two subs? Should the two of them be jointly EQ'ed, for example splitting the output of the BFD to each sub? Or should the subs be EQ'ed indepandantly, for example, splitting the sub pre out of the receiver, sending each half to a separate channel of the BFD, EQ'ing first one sub, then the other, before activating both? My AVR has a single sub pre out and cannot EQ the sub channel(s).

Time to upgrade to an AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT.

Click here for more info
post #8186 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Another quick question as I'm exploring the financial aspects of getting a second SB12 (either the one on canuckaudiomart or a new one entirely, maybe later though).
I'm currently using a BFD to EQ my sub. What would be the process of EQ'ing two subs? Should the two of them be jointly EQ'ed, for example splitting the output of the BFD to each sub? Or should the subs be EQ'ed indepandantly, for example, splitting the sub pre out of the receiver, sending each half to a separate channel of the BFD, EQ'ing first one sub, then the other, before activating both? My AVR has a single sub pre out and cannot EQ the sub channel(s).

Time to upgrade to an AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT.

Click here for more info

Or upgrade to an even more capable sub eq like the Antimode Dual Core smile.gif
post #8187 of 15609
What's the verdict on the cylinder subs from SVS? I've never had the opportunity to hear one but I might be able to convince the wife to let me get a PC12-Plus vs. 2x SB-12's. There's no way she'll let me get a PB12 of any sort due to size and ability to be hidden.
post #8188 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

you would first want to level match them and check for phase issues with a spl meter. then EQ them together.

You're right I guess phase issues should be taken care of first. Rough level matching also but EQing can change the overall level quite a bit it seems. If the goal of having two subs is the fill the nulls of one with clean output from the other, I'm just wondering why EQing them together would be any better than EQing them independently. Then again I see that this could cause problems when the two of them are playing together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Time to upgrade to an AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT.
Click here for more info
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Or upgrade to an even more capable sub eq like the Antimode Dual Core smile.gif

Well, where I live at least, Audissey MultEQ XT32-equiped AVRs cost as much as the sub I'm not even sure I'll be buying. I don't even know about Sub EQ HT. When I was getting into EQing, I considered the earlier Antimode model too, but at around $350 and actually being quite hard to find in Canada, it was not a very attractive option. Having a laptop and an SPL meter, the least expensive solution was the BFD. It's a tad more complex but with REW and a USB-to-MIDI adapter, it's in fact easier than I thought to operate. I like the added flexibility a lot too: I already tried 3 EQ profiles and I can easily switch between them. Experimenting is easy, and the EQ target need not be a pure flat response. I dialed in a gentle house curve and I like how it integrates well with my mains at the crossover point while being hotter in the low bass region. Maybe this is possible with XT32 and Sub EQ HT too, but certainly not for a hundred bucks or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

What's the verdict on the cylinder subs from SVS? I've never had the opportunity to hear one but I might be able to convince the wife to let me get a PC12-Plus vs. 2x SB-12's. There's no way she'll let me get a PB12 of any sort due to size and ability to be hidden.

I'm interested as well... on one hand SVS seems to say that for all practical purpose, the performances of the PCs wrt/ corresponding PBs are the same. A tad more max output for the PBs and that's all. But I read threads in which people complained about port chuffing and grille rattling on the PC (but not on the PB). Not sure if those problems are now fixed or if they are serious at all. I thought a PC Ultra would be easier to blend in than the PB Ultra because of its smaller footprint, then I realized this was true only at certain locations (e.g. a corner). But I wouldn't want to place an Ultra in a corner! I would have to place it right in the middle of a wall and would be extremely conspicuous. If I ever upgrade my SB12 in that living room, I think I would have to go with a PB. At least they can be used as an end table.
post #8189 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

What's the verdict on the cylinder subs from SVS? I've never had the opportunity to hear one but I might be able to convince the wife to let me get a PC12-Plus vs. 2x SB-12's. There's no way she'll let me get a PB12 of any sort due to size and ability to be hidden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm interested as well... on one hand SVS seems to say that for all practical purpose, the performances of the PCs wrt/ corresponding PBs are the same. A tad more max output for the PBs and that's all. But I read threads in which people complained about port chuffing and grille rattling on the PC (but not on the PB). Not sure if those problems are now fixed or if they are serious at all.

I have read those posts as well, but the vast majority of them seem to be 2009 or earlier, and I can count on one hand the number of those which have had problems, as opposed to literally hundreds of posts which give ecstatic reviews. I have dual PC13Ultras, and I can say that I have never heard any grille noise or port chuffing, irregardless of how hard I pushed them (my HT is approx 3200 ft^3). Note that I do not discount their findings (most of these people have forgotten more about subs than I will ever know), but in my case I would have so much rubble instead of a house before I ever got close to straining my cylinders.

To my (admittedly pedestrian) understanding, the advantage the box holds over the cylinder is one of internal volume. This results in a little more muscle down deep, and therefore the driver does not have to work quite as hard to give the same yield (i.e. moves less air, has to work harder before any distortion comes in, etc). If it is indeed easier to get the cylinder to cry uncle, I think that is more the reason than the form factor itself (i.e. give me a cylinder with the same internal volume - taller - and I would not be surprised if that advantage disappears entirely). Just my understanding.

That being said, while I am partial to the cylindrical form factor (great conversation piece, and I don't have cats smile.gif), the box cabinet is drop-dead gorgeous as well (which I will probably get when I supplement the PC13s).
Edited by Vader424242 - 7/19/12 at 8:30am
post #8190 of 15609
Thanks Vader for your heads up. I noticed too that the threads were old so that's why I mentioned the problems may be fixed now. I'm very envious of your dual Ultras and there a still lots of reason to like them. Great conversation starter I'm sure; but also they're (I guess) easier to move around than PBs, being a bit lighter and since you can probably roll them around on the edges of their base. They're also a bit less expensive and for duals, that adds up quickly. Especially in Canada: Sonicboomaudio sells them for $1600 (+shipping), $300 less than the PB13-Ultra. $600 less for duals is not negligible. I'll think about it tongue.gif
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