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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 274

post #8191 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Well, where I live at least, Audissey MultEQ XT32-equiped AVRs cost as much as the sub I'm not even sure I'll be buying. I don't even know about Sub EQ HT. When I was getting into EQing, I considered the earlier Antimode model too, but at around $350 and actually being quite hard to find in Canada, it was not a very attractive option. Having a laptop and an SPL meter, the least expensive solution was the BFD. It's a tad more complex but with REW and a USB-to-MIDI adapter, it's in fact easier than I thought to operate. I like the added flexibility a lot too: I already tried 3 EQ profiles and I can easily switch between them. Experimenting is easy, and the EQ target need not be a pure flat response. I dialed in a gentle house curve and I like how it integrates well with my mains at the crossover point while being hotter in the low bass region. Maybe this is possible with XT32 and Sub EQ HT too, but certainly not for a hundred bucks or so.

.

My AVR with MultEQ XT also eq's subs, think the XT32 does two at a time vs the XT just one at a time like you'll do with your current setup (I am about to look into my manual for my AVR with XT for my second sub, just have done it to my ear's satisfaction for level/distance so far). You can also order Antimode's directly from Finland through DSPeaker/VLSI shopping website. Nice to hear that the REW/BFD thing is easier than you thought as I've been considering that setup.
post #8192 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

My AVR with MultEQ XT also eq's subs, think the XT32 does two at a time vs the XT just one at a time

I see; I thought only XT32 was able to EQ subs. I'm not sure what is the technology behind that (compared to what is done with the Antimode and BFD) but it shouldn't be half bad considering that it's the core code of the now discontinued SVS equalizer.
Quote:
You can also order Antimode's directly from Finland through DSPeaker/VLSI shopping website.

I saw that, but due to shipping and the borderline insane Finland sales tax (which is, by the way, applied on all Finnish products sold *everywhere in the Europe Union* -- and I say insane because I know what I'm talking about: I'm in Quebec and here our province sales tax applies on the federal sales tax for a total of almost 15%. In Finland, the sales tax (VAT) is (drum roll...) 23%!) -- well what I'm saying is that it's cheaper when you find it in North America. I found a small online shop selling speaker parts that had Antimodes...
Quote:
Nice to hear that the REW/BFD thing is easier than you thought as I've been considering that setup.

Well the BFD itself is kind of hellish to use smile.gif But the guys behind REW created an amazing software, and interacting with the BFD via MIDI is a breeze. Granted, its must be much easier to use the Antimode and/or Audissey MultEQ-equipped AVRs, but I like fiddling with REW and finding out the actual effects of applying various parametric filters. It's like having its own acoustics lab.

The main problem is, the more I fiddle with REW and the BFD, the more I convince myself that I should buy a second SB12. The problem comes from the fact that short of closely listening to the frequency sweeps, I don't think I notice anything wrong with my single sub as it is right now. Spending hundreds of bucks just so that a curve on REW is flatter should not be the goal biggrin.gif
post #8193 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I see; I thought only XT32 was able to EQ subs. I'm not sure what is the technology behind that (compared to what is done with the Antimode and BFD) but it shouldn't be half bad considering that it's the core code of the now discontinued SVS equalizer.

I've been very pleased with upgrading to XT32 its a huge leap forward in sub EQing compared to the other auto eq systems out there (Audyssey, Pioneer's and Yamaha's). My SVS sounds like a new sub compared to the other eq I was using. The filters for the subwoofer in XT32 is 4x more than in Multi EQ XT or Multi EQ. 512 vs 128.
post #8194 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I've been very pleased with upgrading to XT32 its a huge leap forward in sub EQing compared to the other auto eq systems out there (Audyssey, Pioneer's and Yamaha's). My SVS sounds like a new sub compared to the other eq I was using. The filters for the subwoofer in XT32 is 4x more than in Multi EQ XT or Multi EQ. 512 vs 128.

That's good to know. For sure XT32 will be on my shopping list when I'll upgrade my AVR, but alas it's not in my plans right now and I'm crossing my fingers since it seems that lots of Pioneer units have a very short life past their 1-year warranty period. A failing AVR is a nice reason to upgrade, sure, but I'd prefer putting money on a new sub smile.gif

Just to point out, Audyssey's litterature quote 512x as the *filter resolution* (probably number of samples in the measurement, but I'm not so sure about that). In fact, it's "512x", with 2EQ being "x". My guess is that this means XT32 uses 512 times as many samples as 2EQ in their measurements, which would be much more reasonable than 512 parametric filters, which would cause lots of problems. In fact XT32 doesn't seem to use parametric filters at all. I guess it's one big, multi-parameter, ARMA (auto-regressive / moving average) filter, or something like this. As this falls somewhat close (as in not that far) from my line of work, I'm very curious about the process used, and I poked around, trying to find if using a standard laptop with integrated audio could process an audio stream fast enough to perform EQ. Turns out, it seems that latency on consumer grade audio adapters would likely prevent that, alas.
post #8195 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

My AVR with MultEQ XT also eq's subs, think the XT32 does two at a time vs the XT just one at a time

I see; I thought only XT32 was able to EQ subs. I'm not sure what is the technology behind that (compared to what is done with the Antimode and BFD) but it shouldn't be half bad considering that it's the core code of the now discontinued SVS equalizer.
Quote:
You can also order Antimode's directly from Finland through DSPeaker/VLSI shopping website.

I saw that, but due to shipping and the borderline insane Finland sales tax (which is, by the way, applied on all Finnish products sold *everywhere in the Europe Union* -- and I say insane because I know what I'm talking about: I'm in Quebec and here our province sales tax applies on the federal sales tax for a total of almost 15%. In Finland, the sales tax (VAT) is (drum roll...) 23%!) -- well what I'm saying is that it's cheaper when you find it in North America. I found a small online shop selling speaker parts that had Antimodes...
Quote:
Nice to hear that the REW/BFD thing is easier than you thought as I've been considering that setup.

Well the BFD itself is kind of hellish to use smile.gif But the guys behind REW created an amazing software, and interacting with the BFD via MIDI is a breeze. Granted, its must be much easier to use the Antimode and/or Audissey MultEQ-equipped AVRs, but I like fiddling with REW and finding out the actual effects of applying various parametric filters. It's like having its own acoustics lab.

The main problem is, the more I fiddle with REW and the BFD, the more I convince myself that I should buy a second SB12. The problem comes from the fact that short of closely listening to the frequency sweeps, I don't think I notice anything wrong with my single sub as it is right now. Spending hundreds of bucks just so that a curve on REW is flatter should not be the goal biggrin.gif

I just ordered another sub instead of the Antimode or Omnimic or a mic/BFD combo smile.gif for now... What mic do you use?

Quebec is not in the EU last I checked, should be no VAT on exports from EU. VLSI website indicates same. Where did you get the idea VAT is due? You'll have your own GST to pay, tho.
post #8196 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I just ordered another sub instead of the Antimode or Omnimic or a mic/BFD combo smile.gif for now... What mic do you use?

The good thing about EQ gear is that it can be used on any sub later should you upgrade. So it's not necessarily an either/or situation; the EQ gear can be a longish-term investment. Yet, for multi-hundred dollar solutions, it can be very tempting to just buy a second sub.

My current EQ gear consists in:
  • My trusty laptop. I don't have an external audio adapter (which would cost upwards of $100 for those recommended by the REW team). My internal audio has a noise level lower than the maximum recommended by the REW team, so while it's not stellar, it's good enough for my budget and can be compensated for by running multiple sweeps and averaging.
  • REW -- without which that setup could not work at that price.
  • Radio-Shack SPL meter (which is the mic I use). Not the best I know, but it's very well known at least.
  • A cheap tripod to hold the SPL meter in place in any position.
  • The Behringer DSP1124p "Feedback Destroyer", aka BFD. Cost be a bit above $100 but can be found for less than that in the US.
  • A cheater plug (I know I shouldn't) to take care of the ground loop hum that the BFD causes.
  • A USB-to-MIDI interface (got it for $7 on Amazon) so that REW can setup the parametric filters on the BFD in one click
  • The appropriate cables and adapters

So the total (excluding the laptop) would cost probably around $150 in the US (say $80 for the BFD, $40 for the SPL meter, and the rest for cables and adapters and tripod). In comparison, http://www.creativesound.ca asks $350 for the Antimode 8033 Cinema and $450 for the Antimode 8033 S (shipped). Add to that 5% GST.
Quote:
Quebec is not in the EU last I checked, should be no VAT on exports from EU. VLSI website indicates same. Where did you get the idea VAT is due? You'll have your own GST to pay, tho.

You're absolutely right, the first time I checked, I didn't saw that selecting "Courier to North America" in the delivery method did not adjust the tax region. Ok then, no VAT... But you still got 54 EUR in shipping fees! The total for the Antimode 8033 Cinema is then 297 EUR (367.55 CAD) plus import fees, which would be 15% in sales taxes, 6% in duties, and maybe other fees to deal with duty fees. So it still doesn't make sense to buy it there in my opinion. However the Dual Core may be only available there, but at 715 EUR + shipping, we're talking about a PB-Plus here biggrin.gif

So while the product is interesting, and if I had boatloads of money I'd try it for sure, the BFD makes more sense for my budget. Also if Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is that good for sub EQing, it would make more sense to me to put the $350+ an Antimode would cost toward a new receiver thus equipped. What's the cheapest XT32-equipped receiver out there?
post #8197 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

The good thing about EQ gear is that it can be used on any sub later should you upgrade. So it's not necessarily an either/or situation; the EQ gear can be a longish-term investment. Yet, for multi-hundred dollar solutions, it can be very tempting to just buy a second sub.
My current EQ gear consists in:
  • My trusty laptop. I don't have an external audio adapter (which would cost upwards of $100 for those recommended by the REW team). My internal audio has a noise level lower than the maximum recommended by the REW team, so while it's not stellar, it's good enough for my budget and can be compensated for by running multiple sweeps and averaging.
  • REW -- without which that setup could not work at that price.
  • Radio-Shack SPL meter (which is the mic I use). Not the best I know, but it's very well known at least.

FYI when building my own speakers I found out that the radioshack SPL meter is highly inaccuate at high frequencies. You may want to consider investing in something a bit better....for instance a dayton omni-directional mic.
post #8198 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

FYI when building my own speakers I found out that the radioshack SPL meter is highly inaccuate at high frequencies. You may want to consider investing in something a bit better....for instance a dayton omni-directional mic.

I understand that even with the tweaked calibration tables from hometheatreshack, the RadioShack SPL meter both exhibits large variations (from one meter to another) and is not suitable for precise measurements at higher frequencies. I chose it nonetheless because having an SPL meter is still useful (to put an absolute SPL scale on the measurements); also I couldn't find another SPL meter with known good calibration data available at a reasonable price, and for now I'm mostly interested in EQing my sub (my AVR does an ok job EQing the speakers). If I ever want to take a look at what happens above 100 Hz in my room, I may add a good mic to my gear, but it's just not my top priority right now. I think HTS recommends having the mic calibrated (individually) anyway, which would end up costing lots of money. I see why you'd want a good mic building speakers, but just for getting rid of the worst peaks in sub response, I think I'm doing fine with the RS SPL meter.
post #8199 of 15588
^^^
Which AVR do you have that EQs speakers but not your sub?

BTW I have a Radio Shack analog SPL meter--the original model, no longer sold. I never found it helpful in EQing my sub. It's useful for determining with a test tone whether my 5 speakers are all set to the same volume level, but that's it. The various compensation tables are useless when you consider the wide variation between different samples of the same meter. In fact, it is quite possible that the calibration tables may make a particular sample of that meter LESS accurate. You have no way to know...
post #8200 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

^^^
Which AVR do you have that EQs speakers but not your sub?

It's a Pioneer VSX-1020. Pioneer AVRs use their own MCACC room correction, not Audyssey. As far as I know, MCACC does not do subs (well there's an EQ filter centered at 64 Hz though). It does adjust overall sub level of course. Maybe more recent Pio AVRs can EQ the sub, but not mine.
Quote:
BTW I have a Radio Shack analog SPL meter--the original model, no longer sold. I never found it helpful in EQing my sub. It's useful for determining with a test tone whether my 5 speakers are all set to the same volume level, but that's it. The various compensation tables are useless when you consider the wide variation between different samples of the same meter. In fact, it is quite possible that the calibration tables may make a particular sample of that meter LESS accurate. You have no way to know...

Well I'm not convinced that the variation between individual meters is so large as to render the correction tables completely useless. You're right that having a wrong correction table will introduce accuracy issues, but so far I'm pleased with my EQ attempts and the meter certainly recorded nulls an peaks correctly (I could hear them while doing a frequency sweep). I'm not EQing with a 1-dB precision anyway. But I'll keep your recommendation in mind and if I see a good deal on a better mic, I'll jump on it.
post #8201 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

You're absolutely right, the first time I checked, I didn't saw that selecting "Courier to North America" in the delivery method did not adjust the tax region. Ok then, no VAT... But you still got 54 EUR in shipping fees! The total for the Antimode 8033 Cinema is then 297 EUR (367.55 CAD) plus import fees, which would be 15% in sales taxes, 6% in duties, and maybe other fees to deal with duty fees. So it still doesn't make sense to buy it there in my opinion. However the Dual Core may be only available there, but at 715 EUR + shipping, we're talking about a PB-Plus here biggrin.gif

So while the product is interesting, and if I had boatloads of money I'd try it for sure, the BFD makes more sense for my budget. Also if Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is that good for sub EQing, it would make more sense to me to put the $350+ an Antimode would cost toward a new receiver thus equipped. What's the cheapest XT32-equipped receiver out there?

Why would you pay sales tax? I know GST is paid at time of import, did not realize they collect another sales tax as well, or is that for Quebec alone? I'm a customs broker here in the US and we don't do that here and as far as I know that isn't done in Canada on imports either but I'd have to ask my colleagues in Canada. Even with shipping last I looked VLSI was a better option than buying here in the US from a dealer....but it's been a while since I checked.
post #8202 of 15588
I have the sub spikes that came with the PB13. The sub is in a basement with carpet. Should I be using the spikes for better sound?
post #8203 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoZ View Post

I have the sub spikes that came with the PB13. The sub is in a basement with carpet. Should I be using the spikes for better sound?

Spikes? You mean those little nub spikes? Not necessary. that sub isn't going anywhere and theres no need to try and isolate it with concrete under the carpet.
post #8204 of 15588
Hi,

I'm thinking to get a new subwoofer, and looking for a bit of advice.

My room is 14'4" x 16', but it opens up to the kitchen and dining areas behind my listening position (but its still a small 1 bedroom apt, so not a huge room). Ceiling is 9' high.
I generally watch more movies than music, but both are important.
My setup is: Yamaha RX-A2010, Emotiva XPA-5 and Polk LsiM speakers

I recently picked up a Hsu VTF3, and while its very good, I'm thinking i prefer a sealed sub (I used to have a sunfire true subwoofer, which was outstanding, but the amp seems to have gone bad and the repair cost is too high to be worth it). I've played around a little bit with the port plugs and EQ settings, but it still runs out of gas at very low freq.
I'm still within my return period, so I'm considering returning it and getting a more powerful but smaller sealed sub.

I have my eye on either the SVS SB13-Ultra when it comes out (soon i hope!), or a Hsu ULS-15. Any opinions between those two?
Is there any more detail on the SB13-Ultra? such as price, release date, difference from the previous SB13 plus?

Thanks!
post #8205 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by RassilonZero View Post

Hi,
I'm thinking to get a new subwoofer, and looking for a bit of advice.
My room is 14'4" x 16', but it opens up to the kitchen and dining areas behind my listening position (but its still a small 1 bedroom apt, so not a huge room). Ceiling is 9' high.
I generally watch more movies than music, but both are important.
My setup is: Yamaha RX-A2010, Emotiva XPA-5 and Polk LsiM speakers
I recently picked up a Hsu VTF3, and while its very good, I'm thinking i prefer a sealed sub (I used to have a sunfire true subwoofer, which was outstanding, but the amp seems to have gone bad and the repair cost is too high to be worth it). I've played around a little bit with the port plugs and EQ settings, but it still runs out of gas at very low freq.
I'm still within my return period, so I'm considering returning it and getting a more powerful but smaller sealed sub.
I have my eye on either the SVS SB13-Ultra when it comes out (soon i hope!), or a Hsu ULS-15. Any opinions between those two?
Is there any more detail on the SB13-Ultra? such as price, release date, difference from the previous SB13 plus?
Thanks!

I'm surprised you're not happy with the Hsu in that space honestly. Can you try different positions?
post #8206 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I'm surprised you're not happy with the Hsu in that space honestly. Can you try different positions?
I don't have a lot of room to put such a big sub. i have it just behind my couch, basically between the living room and the opening to dining/kitchen area.
Its not so much as I think the sound or performance is bad, just that i think i prefer a sealed sub, and if I'm going to have a sealed sub id rather go with one a bit smaller than the VTF3. generally it sounds great, but it runs out of steam at very low freq., and when it does so at high volumes all i really hear is port noise..
Granted, im not listening that loudly to sub-20hz content that often, but having heard it once i can't un-hear it... (it was in the bass mekanik song "Bass I Love You".)

But i appreciate the comment. it may very much be a case of "the grass is always greener..." tongue.gif
post #8207 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RassilonZero View Post

Hi,
I'm thinking to get a new subwoofer, and looking for a bit of advice.
My room is 14'4" x 16', but it opens up to the kitchen and dining areas behind my listening position (but its still a small 1 bedroom apt, so not a huge room). Ceiling is 9' high.
I generally watch more movies than music, but both are important.
My setup is: Yamaha RX-A2010, Emotiva XPA-5 and Polk LsiM speakers
I recently picked up a Hsu VTF3, and while its very good, I'm thinking i prefer a sealed sub (I used to have a sunfire true subwoofer, which was outstanding, but the amp seems to have gone bad and the repair cost is too high to be worth it). I've played around a little bit with the port plugs and EQ settings, but it still runs out of gas at very low freq.
I'm still within my return period, so I'm considering returning it and getting a more powerful but smaller sealed sub.
I have my eye on either the SVS SB13-Ultra when it comes out (soon i hope!), or a Hsu ULS-15. Any opinions between those two?
Is there any more detail on the SB13-Ultra? such as price, release date, difference from the previous SB13 plus?
Thanks!

I'm surprised you're not happy with the Hsu in that space honestly. Can you try different positions?

Which version of the VTF3?
post #8208 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Which version of the VTF3?
mk4, latest version.
post #8209 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by RassilonZero View Post

I don't have a lot of room to put such a big sub. i have it just behind my couch, basically between the living room and the opening to dining/kitchen area.
Its not so much as I think the sound or performance is bad, just that i think i prefer a sealed sub, and if I'm going to have a sealed sub id rather go with one a bit smaller than the VTF3. generally it sounds great, but it runs out of steam at very low freq., and when it does so at high volumes all i really hear is port noise..
Granted, im not listening that loudly to sub-20hz content that often, but having heard it once i can't un-hear it... (it was in the bass mekanik song "Bass I Love You".)
But i appreciate the comment. it may very much be a case of "the grass is always greener..." tongue.gif

Porting is a super-efficient way to get output in low frequencies, I doubt there are many sealed subs that have the low frequency output of the VTF3 at its tuning point. Below its tuning point is where something like a SB13 would have an advantage, but it isn't going to match a large ported sub for output at or around the tuning point. You might try turning the Q down to 0.3, this will diminish the low frequency output a bit, but it will tighten up the bass and make the ports less susceptible to chuffing. Running the sub in EQ2 mode with both ports open will also help to prevent chuffing as well.
post #8210 of 15588
ShadyJ or anyone else,

Can you please explain what the tuning point in a sub is and what this does? Also benefits and negatives. Having just purchased the SB13 Plus it would be good to understand this.

Cheers
Heath
post #8211 of 15588
I have a PC13 Ultra and am finally getting ready to transfer it down to the dedicated home theater...from the living room. After the sub is set behind the screen and the GOM frames cover the flase wall, touching the sub will be a pain...soooooo.

What about leaving the power on all the time? Now I turn the sub off and on when we fire up a movie. I am a little concerned about leaving it on 24/7. I could retro the false wall and install a light switch for the sub power but would prefer to leave things hidden.

What do you all think? (or what does everyone else do?)
post #8212 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoSport View Post

I have a PC13 Ultra and am finally getting ready to transfer it down to the dedicated home theater...from the living room. After the sub is set behind the screen and the GOM frames cover the flase wall, touching the sub will be a pain...soooooo.
What about leaving the power on all the time? Now I turn the sub off and on when we fire up a movie. I am a little concerned about leaving it on 24/7. I could retro the false wall and install a light switch for the sub power but would prefer to leave things hidden.
What do you all think? (or what does everyone else do?)

Have you consider a smart or green outlet? Have a look at this one (includes a remote control and line of sight is not required).

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Conserve-Switch-Energy-Saving-Protector/dp/B003P2UMNK/ref=sr_1_6?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1342993693&sr=1-6&keywords=smart+outlet
post #8213 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoSport View Post

I have a PC13 Ultra and am finally getting ready to transfer it down to the dedicated home theater...from the living room. After the sub is set behind the screen and the GOM frames cover the flase wall, touching the sub will be a pain...soooooo.
What about leaving the power on all the time? Now I turn the sub off and on when we fire up a movie. I am a little concerned about leaving it on 24/7. I could retro the false wall and install a light switch for the sub power but would prefer to leave things hidden.
What do you all think? (or what does everyone else do?)

Does it not have an Auto setting? I leave my PC12-NSD powered on, in Auto mode, same as both my other subs.
post #8214 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Why would you pay sales tax? I know GST is paid at time of import, did not realize they collect another sales tax as well, or is that for Quebec alone? I'm a customs broker here in the US and we don't do that here and as far as I know that isn't done in Canada on imports either but I'd have to ask my colleagues in Canada. Even with shipping last I looked VLSI was a better option than buying here in the US from a dealer....but it's been a while since I checked.

Depending what you import and where it comes from, different duty fees may or may not apply, and this also depends on the province you're in. First, there's import duty. I think that may be 8% for electronics such as the Antimode when it doesn't come from the free-trade agreement zone. Then GST surely applies. For electronics, each province can decide to levy PST on top of that. Quebec does it, as does Ontario (i.e you're charged the whole HST when importing into Ontario). Well at least this is the case when you're physically passing through the border. I'm not sure what's the situation when you order by mail. Anyway it seems to me that $350 is the bare minimum we can pay for a new Antimode as Canadians. The Dual Core would cost more than a second NSD sub rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouiff View Post

ShadyJ or anyone else,
Can you please explain what the tuning point in a sub is and what this does? Also benefits and negatives. Having just purchased the SB13 Plus it would be good to understand this.

It generally refers to the resonance frequency of the port in ported subwoofers. The port is a Helmotz resonator (think blowing into a beer bottle); typically in a ported sub, the port is "tuned" so that a resonance is added around 20 Hz, to add more output around this frequency. Some subwoofers (such as the SVS Plus and Ultras, and the above-mentionned Hsu VTF) have port plugs that can be used in conjunction with DSP settings to change the tuning. For example the resonance frequency can be changed to 16 Hz at the cost of a lower output by blocking one port (and changing the DSP setting). They can also be used in sealed mode by blocking all ports. Having no port the SB13 cannot be tuned differently.
post #8215 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Depending what you import and where it comes from, different duty fees may or may not apply, and this also depends on the province you're in. First, there's import duty. I think that may be 8% for electronics such as the Antimode when it doesn't come from the free-trade agreement zone. Then GST surely applies. For electronics, each province can decide to levy PST on top of that. Quebec does it, as does Ontario (i.e you're charged the whole HST when importing into Ontario). Well at least this is the case when you're physically passing through the border. I'm not sure what's the situation when you order by mail. Anyway it seems to me that $350 is the bare minimum we can pay for a new Antimode as Canadians. The Dual Core would cost more than a second NSD sub rolleyes.gif

.

Here in the US unless it is a federal user fee, tax or the duty itself, no state level taxes may be applied to imports...it's a basic part of federal law here (to avoid having states doing things on their own and we have no federal sales tax like many other countries....yet). Duty would depend on the harmonized tariff code and for an electronic item like this if left to a courier/express company who knows what they might come up with...most aren't well trained in the tariff's use and usually Customs lets them get away with misclassification at least here in the US...Canadian customs has a reputation to be tough so not sure up there. Likely harmonized code, int'l portion at least, is 8543.70 as there isn't much specifically addressing this type of equipment in the tariff.
post #8216 of 15588
Well in Canada things are often a tad more complicated biggrin.gif Provinces do not have the same status as States, and can levy different taxes. I found this useful tool for estimating duty and taxes when importing to Canada. For subs, the category would be Electronics / Audio / Loudspeakers -- and then duty (6.5%) is supposed to be applied. But in practice I never had duty applied to speakers coming from the US. However both federal and provincial sales taxes apply. I have no idea in which category to put the Antimode. This chart on the same site shows which duty / tax / tariff applies on which category of good. It seems to me that no duty shall be applied on goods originating from the US. The exact definition of "originating" is left as an exercise to the reader.

That being said, importing a sub from the US would be ok if it was not for the astronomical cross-border shipping fees. And grabbing a sub on the way back from vacation is generally difficult considering the volume it takes. That's why SVS is particularly interesting for Canadians: Sonicboomaudio's fees are quite small (prices lower than SVS because they don't include shipping, then very reasonable shipping fees, plus only the GST if you're not in Ontario).
post #8217 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Well in Canada things are often a tad more complicated biggrin.gif Provinces do not have the same status as States, and can levy different taxes. I found this useful tool for estimating duty and taxes when importing to Canada. For subs, the category would be Electronics / Audio / Loudspeakers -- and then duty (6.5%) is supposed to be applied. But in practice I never had duty applied to speakers coming from the US. However both federal and provincial sales taxes apply. I have no idea in which category to put the Antimode. This chart on the same site shows which duty / tax / tariff applies on which category of good. It seems to me that no duty shall be applied on goods originating from the US. The exact definition of "originating" is left as an exercise to the reader.

That being said, importing a sub from the US would be ok if it was not for the astronomical cross-border shipping fees. And grabbing a sub on the way back from vacation is generally difficult considering the volume it takes. That's why SVS is particularly interesting for Canadians: Sonicboomaudio's fees are quite small (prices lower than SVS because they don't include shipping, then very reasonable shipping fees, plus only the GST if you're not in Ontario).

I don't trust sites that don't stick to specifics when it comes to the tariff as the tariff is very specific. Enclosures with a single loudspeaker are harmonized code 8518.21 (first six digits are international, then each country applies the next 2-4 digits for duty/statistical purposes), enclosures with more than one loudspeaker is 8518.22, loudspeakers without enclosures 8518.29. "Electric sound amplifier sets" are 8518.50 but a preamp/dsp/eq doesn't fit there. The dsp/eq's don't seem to be provided for so probably 8543.70 as I mentioned.

In the Canadian tariff http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2012/01-99/ch85-2012-02-eng.pdf the loudspeakers do come out at 6.5% in enclosures and I doubt there's any preferential tariff treatment for Finland. For the dsp/eq 8543.70 is duty free per the Canadian tariff. However, when customs sees duty free and it's a very general catch-all like 8543.70 sometimes they interpret things a bit differently smile.gif.

Origin refers to the country of origin, i.e. manufacture (not simply purchase). These days with so many different parts it's more about the entire bill of materials/assembly/general overhead and the various "origins" accordingly and which one is predominant. NAFTA for US-Canada goods has certain origin requirements that must be met (and take up about half an inch of the rules of our tariff).

Hey, some of us have to make a living interpreting and handling and shipping this stuff for people who want to buy stuff they don't make in their own country smile.gif
post #8218 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

In the Canadian tariff http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2012/01-99/ch85-2012-02-eng.pdf the loudspeakers do come out at 6.5% in enclosures

Wow you certainly know your stuff smile.gif Still the problem is that the tariff code (or however this is called) doesn't seem to be applied the same every time.
Quote:
For the dsp/eq 8543.70 is duty free per the Canadian tariff.

That's good to know!
Quote:
Origin refers to the country of origin, i.e. manufacture (not simply purchase).

That's what I thought. However I recently imported Energy speakers (designed in Canada, built in China -- this is written in inch-high letters on the boxes --and only sold in the US now!) and was not charged duty. No Canadian in the Official Energy Owner's Thread got charged either after doing the same. But I think even if they were built in the US, the 6.5% duty should have applied as far as I can understand. Anyway, if that's an error on the custom official's side, well so be it biggrin.gif
Quote:
These days with so many different parts it's more about the entire bill of materials/assembly/general overhead and the various "origins" accordingly and which one is predominant. NAFTA for US-Canada goods has certain origin requirements that must be met (and take up about half an inch of the rules of our tariff).

Considering the custom official only had the receipt and took all of maybe 30 sec before I had the bill for the taxes due, I guess he didn't investigate the origin of those speakers that much.

Importing stuff from the US can provide Canadians with great deals, especially on audio equipment and electronics. But there are downsides too. Generally warranty doesn't apply anymore on Canadian soil. I think the risk is worth it for reputed speakers for example. Low probability of lemons there; if they're not smashed they should work well for years. Subs have an amp so I feel better ordering from the canadian distributor and be covered. When I'll upgrade my AVR for example -- boy that will be a hard decision. Buy it for half the price in the US but get no warranty... on a device for which returns are typically quite frequent. It's a roll of the dice.
post #8219 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

In the Canadian tariff http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2012/01-99/ch85-2012-02-eng.pdf the loudspeakers do come out at 6.5% in enclosures

Wow you certainly know your stuff smile.gif Still the problem is that the tariff code (or however this is called) doesn't seem to be applied the same every time.
Quote:
For the dsp/eq 8543.70 is duty free per the Canadian tariff.

That's good to know!
Quote:
Origin refers to the country of origin, i.e. manufacture (not simply purchase).

That's what I thought. However I recently imported Energy speakers (designed in Canada, built in China -- this is written in inch-high letters on the boxes --and only sold in the US now!) and was not charged duty. No Canadian in the Official Energy Owner's Thread got charged either after doing the same. But I think even if they were built in the US, the 6.5% duty should have applied as far as I can understand. Anyway, if that's an error on the custom official's side, well so be it biggrin.gif
Quote:
These days with so many different parts it's more about the entire bill of materials/assembly/general overhead and the various "origins" accordingly and which one is predominant. NAFTA for US-Canada goods has certain origin requirements that must be met (and take up about half an inch of the rules of our tariff).

Considering the custom official only had the receipt and took all of maybe 30 sec before I had the bill for the taxes due, I guess he didn't investigate the origin of those speakers that much.

Importing stuff from the US can provide Canadians with great deals, especially on audio equipment and electronics. But there are downsides too. Generally warranty doesn't apply anymore on Canadian soil. I think the risk is worth it for reputed speakers for example. Low probability of lemons there; if they're not smashed they should work well for years. Subs have an amp so I feel better ordering from the canadian distributor and be covered. When I'll upgrade my AVR for example -- boy that will be a hard decision. Buy it for half the price in the US but get no warranty... on a device for which returns are typically quite frequent. It's a roll of the dice.

Yes, been doing this sort of thing since I was in high school....when imports were few and far between.

It's not so much the Canadian Customs officials but rather the shippers, their freight forwarders and couriers that draw up the documentation that Customs declarations are based on for the most part, and some cheat and some are just not doing it right... Am sure in Canada you have a deluge of imports as we do in the US and the officials can't check everything. Customs here goes by declaration for the most part, importers are subject to self compliance for the most part (and can be penalized when they aren't accurate but audits aren't very frequent either), actual scrutiny has gone by the wayside between volume of imports and security issues.

Energy stuff should be declared as China origin from what I know and would not be subject to NAFTA or any other preferential program, other than being considered as MFN (most favoured nation) status which once upon a time commie bastid countries couldn't get smile.gif, at least not until major moneyed interests wanted such and bent governments to their way of thinking....
post #8220 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Energy stuff should be declared as China origin from what I know and would not be subject to NAFTA or any other preferential program, other than being considered as MFN (most favoured nation) status which once upon a time commie bastid countries couldn't get smile.gif, at least not until major moneyed interests wanted such and bent governments to their way of thinking....

Lol yeah maybe China is a most favoured nation now. But I thought that maybe duty was paid by Energy / Klipsch / Audiovox when they imported the speakers from the manufacturer into the US, and thus it's already factored in into the price. Once inside the NAFTA zone it would then be duty-free. Or something like that. Or maybe the crossover circuitry count as general electronics wink.gif

The problem is that Energy speakers (and SVS subs also -- they're too partly assembled in China now AFAIK) and a most of what is on store shelves everywhere are in fact imported from China. That would mean paying duty on about everything as China is the World's de facto manufacturer nowadays. Maybe that grants them MFN status...
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