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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 284

post #8491 of 15581
yeah the last statement was more in Jest. I love this forum and love the research up to getting a new sub or two!! its almost more fun than actually getting it...almost but not quite smile.gif

good luck...i would loveto have more dialogue with you about it. so keep me in the loop as you were directly linked into my purchasing the SB12
post #8492 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

yeah the last statement was more in Jest. I love this forum and love the research up to getting a new sub or two!! its almost more fun than actually getting it...almost but not quite smile.gif

Indeed. The best is spending other's money when they're shopping for new subs smile.gif Also planning what to get when there is various amounts of money suddenly available. That is important, you don't want to get caught not knowing which upgrade path to take if you suddenly get a bonus tongue.gif But seriously, I'd be saving for a much more impressive sub if I had somewhere to put it. But that will have to wait until we decide to reno the basement, which may take time since that will be really expensive. For now there is no point in looking at Ultras, FunkAudio or Submersives in my current living room at the levels we listen to.

There is also the DIY route which I'm interested in despite my lack of skills. My colleague who may be interested in my SB12 has a large room sharing a wall with a storage room. He could easily build an infinite baffle sub setup in there... It's always fun to plan on destroying a wall in someone else's house.
Quote:
good luck...i would loveto have more dialogue with you about it. so keep me in the loop as you were directly linked into my purchasing the SB12

Be sure I'll keep you updated with my decision and results. I may even be able to find time to take single vs duals measurements... In the mean time, I hope you're satisfied with your SB12. For the record, my desire to upgrade doesn't come from any dissatisfaction with my SB12. I think uniformity is something that is almost impossible to achieve with a single sub in the first place. Even thought my sub is EQed there are seating positions in the room where the bass is much more pleasing (not sure if it's just louder or if it's more extended too) than others, and I hope adding a second sub will extend that feeling to most listening positions.
post #8493 of 15581
Hi guys me again.

I think I know very well the answer to this one but I'm asking just to be sure.

I'm on the verge (... in a few days) of ordering my 2nd sub and I'm wondering if I should not take a more radical step than dual-ing my SB12. After all this all involves quite a bit of money. I would likely not be able to sell my SB12 locally, and I'd have to sell it at a discount online because shipping from my location would probably be expensive.

So what about running duals with an SB12 and a PB12? Ok they would be visually mismatched. I know you're supposed to run duals with the same sub -- or at least similar ones, and the PB12 has much more output than the SB12. But I'm not that interested in getting loads more of output anyway; I'm more interested in ways to extend the frequency response, and maybe experience something new.

So what if I EQ the PB12 to match the SB12's output in the SB12's range to make them similar, and using the excess output of the PB12 in the 15-25 Hz region to boost the low-end? Is that something difficult, or risky, to achieve? Would the famous "slam" factor associated with ported subs be present if I limit the PB12's output to the SB12's output, or is "slam" simply achieved by the larger output of the ported sub?

It's just that I really want to try duals, and at the same time I wonder about ported subs. The obvious solution would be to buy a pair of PB12s but without finding a buyer for the SB12, that would definitely fall outside my budget for the moment. Plus, since I really like what the SB12 does to my music, I'm wary about what some say about ported subs and music; moreover, maybe that would be a complete waste of money unless I'm ready to listen at much higher volume levels, which is not possible at the moment.

Any comment while I wait for the magic amount to appear in my bank account? biggrin.gif
post #8494 of 15581
(Dual PB12s)
post #8495 of 15581
You have a small room (1,600 cu.ft.) w/ lots of gain, so you're getting extension. Dual SB12-NSDs should give you smoother FR (or up to 6dB more output, if you have a sweet-spot in which you can co-locate them) and more headroom. I'd start there. smile.gif
Edited by eljaycanuck - 10/5/12 at 6:44pm
post #8496 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

(Dual PB12s)

Well thanks for the opinion. If I go that way I may have to save up for a bit longer though frown.gif I know you think I should have gone with ported since the beginning. But I have trouble remembering what you're running yourself. Are you running duals? Did you ever compare the SB12 and PB12? (I'm asking in all honesty, not trying to cast a doubt on your recommendation).

Also at that kind of budget, the whole question of single-bigger-sub vs dual-smaller-subs raise its head, as it would be a bit cheaper to get a Plus. However the variable tuning would allow for a very, very interesting in-room extension if using the 16 Hz tune. I guess my GF would kill me if I'd go with a PC but that would be even cheaper.

Geez I thought I was decided... mad.gif
post #8497 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Dual SB12-NSDs. smile.gif

Ah the voice of reason. rolleyes.gif

Actually both SVS and SBA said the same. Not sure why. Maybe they just don't like seeing used SVS products on sale.
post #8498 of 15581
Quote:
Ah the voice of reason. rolleyes.gif
Can't say I've ever been called that before...
post #8499 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

You have a small room (1,600 cu.ft.) w/ lots of gain, so you're getting extension. Dual SB12-NSDs should give you smoother FR (or up to 6dB more output, if you have a sweet-spot in which you can co-locate them) and more headroom. I'd start there. smile.gif

Thanks for expanding that opinion. I do get rather good extension, I think. I hesitate to publish my measurements since I'm not 100% confident in my methodology. They do vary quite a bit with position, and also with playback volume as the gentle EQ house curve I applied gives some boost in the very low end, but only at low volume since I don't have much headroom below 20 Hz. In any way, the +/- 3 dB point (really, with EQ, the -6 dB point, below the plateau) is about 17.5 Hz in-room. Which does make me wonder what I'd get with a ported sub.

The smoother FR but mainly the better uniformity across the room is the main reason I'm considering duals. So I'm not looking at +6 dB in terms of added output. I'm not sure how it works out when subs are not co-located but I guess it would be around +3 dB? Maybe it depends on the room mode structures or something. But I guess there somehow would be more output wink.gif

The whole question is what to do with the ~$750 I'm ready to spend considering I already have an SB12. Maybe I should start with dual SB12s as you say, and just upgrade again next year anyway rolleyes.gif It would have been easier in the US dealing with SVS directly, perusing their upgrade policy. I see no recent SVS sub for sale in Canada on Canuckaudiomart; last time I've looked there was a NIB gloss black SB12 on sale for $550 and now it's gone, so I guess I could count on getting a bit less for a 1-yo sub. But I'd still have to spend quite a bit more than I planned for dual PBs (and face my GF after the fact -- the PB *are* bigger).
post #8500 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Well thanks for the opinion. If I go that way I may have to save up for a bit longer though frown.gif I know you think I should have gone with ported since the beginning. But I have trouble remembering what you're running yourself. Are you running duals? Did you ever compare the SB12 and PB12? (I'm asking in all honesty, not trying to cast a doubt on your recommendation).
Also at that kind of budget, the whole question of single-bigger-sub vs dual-smaller-subs raise its head, as it would be a bit cheaper to get a Plus. However the variable tuning would allow for a very, very interesting in-room extension if using the 16 Hz tune. I guess my GF would kill me if I'd go with a PC but that would be even cheaper.
Geez I thought I was decided... mad.gif

I have a single PC12-NSD. I was all set and ready to buy her a sister in mid-October, but then a friend of mine fell behind on some payments. I've been through repo... repo ruins everything, for years to come. So eff a subwoofer, where I come from, we take care of our own smile.gif Besides, there's always next month.

No, I've never heard the SB12 (nor the PB12, for full disclosure). Also, I think the choice between a PB12/PC12 NSD pair and a single PB12/PC12 Plus is a (deliberately) clear case of two lesser subs' being a better choice than one single sub. Per conversations I've had with the folks at SVS, a Plus has, through most of its pass band, nearly identical maximum output as compared to two NSDs; and the ability to be tuned to 16Hz, which in small rooms like yours and mine, would mean substantial output down to about 14Hz, with perceptible output down, probably, to about 12Hz. While futzing around with test tones, I've determined that my PC12 is strong down to 18Hz, substantial down to 16, and perceptible down to 14 (although its 14Hz output would probably be drowned out by other program material in most normal circumstances). Every knowledgeable enthusiast (including the people at SVS, themselves) has recommended dual NSDs over a single Plus for my small space (a 17x10.5x8 room with a 6x7 aperture that connects this room to a hallway and two smaller rooms--a total of around 3200 cubic feet, give or take). Given the performance measurements of the NSD and Plus, I'm inclined to agree. How often do I need my system to generate 16Hz noises as loudly as 20Hz ones? When I hang out here too much, I begin to think "as often as necessary!" But then I watch some gonzo bass movies and I come to my senses. With strong response in my room down to 16Hz, I don't need a bigger sub--I need a second, identical sub.

I am not saying that *you* should quit the low Hertz chase at the same place where I did; but I do think that if the SB12-NSD was the right price for you, and if you've been hankering for a more robust home theater experience, then you're in a place where dual NSDs would probably serve you best. Would a Plus be even hot-sexier? Sure. But if you want to double up on Pluses, you're spending $2400 (presently, while they're discounted $100). If SB12-NSD was right for you, then $2400 must have your better half calling a lawyer. I'm single and I can buy anything I can afford, and I would feel too foolish buying a sub in that class, for that cost, when the biggest measurable difference would be output that I'll never use and extension that I'll barely notice.
Edited by SaviorMachine - 10/5/12 at 8:38pm
post #8501 of 15581
Hey all,

I currently have dual MFW-15s and I'm looking to upgrade to dual PB13-Ultras. Currently the MFW-15's amp stays really warm even when in standby, so I know its costing me even when they're not being used. So my question is, does the current PB13-Ultra's amp dissipate heat when they're in standby?

Thanks.

counterpoint
post #8502 of 15581
^^^
I made the same move a few years ago. I haven't had any issues with heat dissipation on my BASH powered Ultra's, during idle or when playing full tilt.
post #8503 of 15581
my question is:
in a room around 3500
with onkyo 3008
listening point 10 feet from speakers/sub
the sub will be near the left-speaker
the sub will be 3" from the side wall and 16" from the rear wall
90% HT
i live in a condo, so my volume is usually around 65



the SB-12 will solve all my logistic problems, BUT: will the SB-12 work fine ? is it enough for my room ? or i need more than that (PB-12 etc) ?
one seller told me i MUST have an anti-mode eq: is that true ? i thought the audissey XT32 should be more than enough for eq, isn'it ?

please let me know

thank you very much
post #8504 of 15581
Did not know SVS was selling through OneCall.
post #8505 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamount View Post

my question is:
in a room around 3500
with onkyo 3008
listening point 10 feet from speakers/sub
the sub will be near the left-speaker
the sub will be 3" from the side wall and 16" from the rear wall
90% HT
i live in a condo, so my volume is usually around 65
the SB-12 will solve all my logistic problems, BUT: will the SB-12 work fine ? is it enough for my room ? or i need more than that (PB-12 etc) ?
one seller told me i MUST have an anti-mode eq: is that true ? i thought the audissey XT32 should be more than enough for eq, isn'it ?
please let me know
thank you very much

The Anti-Mode is a fine device, but MultEQ XT32 is at least as good if not better.

As for the sub issue, 3500 cubic feet is a decent sized room, I'd get the most capable sub you can A) afford, B) properly position, C) get past the spouse/roommate/condo board (choose any and all that apply).
post #8506 of 15581
Hi!

I have questions about the SVS PB12 PLUS subwoofer. I have an Onkyo receiver and when run the Audyssey test, my subwoofer is at SP Level -7.0dB.

During the normal listening level from watching movies, the subwoofer sounds very low and hardly noticeable. If I turn up the SP Level to +12dB which is the highest SP Level, the subwoofer sounds much better. However, when I crank up the volume of the Onkyo receiver to -20 (extremely loud!!), the PB12 PLUS starts to make nasty sounds from the rubber surrounding of the driver. It the driver is making the flapping or thud sounds which means I am over driving the PB12 PLUS.

At the SP Level +12 is way to high and I am not sure what is the correct SP Level I need to adjust so I can watch movies that sounds good at low volume as well as extremely high volume.

Also, I set the LFE at 120Hz. Is it suppose to be at 100Hz?

I have the PB12 PLUS next to the side wall and NOT in the corner. The subwoofer is facing along the side wall and not facing the center of the room. This sub is rather long to face it center of the room so I face it along the side wall. Room size is 27 Ft X 16 Ft.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
post #8507 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Hi!
I have questions about the SVS PB12 PLUS subwoofer. I have an Onkyo receiver and when run the Audyssey test, my subwoofer is at SP Level -7.0dB.
During the normal listening level from watching movies, the subwoofer sounds very low and hardly noticeable. If I turn up the SP Level to +12dB which is the highest SP Level, the subwoofer sounds much better. However, when I crank up the volume of the Onkyo receiver to -20 (extremely loud!!), the PB12 PLUS starts to make nasty sounds from the rubber surrounding of the driver. It the driver is making the flapping or thud sounds which means I am over driving the PB12 PLUS.
At the SP Level +12 is way to high and I am not sure what is the correct SP Level I need to adjust so I can watch movies that sounds good at low volume as well as extremely high volume.
Also, I set the LFE at 120Hz. Is it suppose to be at 100Hz?
I have the PB12 PLUS next to the side wall and NOT in the corner. The subwoofer is facing along the side wall and not facing the center of the room. This sub is rather long to face it center of the room so I face it along the side wall. Room size is 27 Ft X 16 Ft.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Setting the LFE to 120 HZ is fine (I do the same, and it is not responsible for the bad sounds coming from your sub). You are over-driving your sub and/or clipping the signal at that level (+12). If you are not happy with how the sub sounds, check the sub and seating placements, and get some measuring equipment to aid with placement and set up.

Audioholics has a pretty good tutorial on sub placement. Look here , here, here, and here.

A fellow AVS'er (giomania) has created an exceptional Audyssey set up guide, which may also help after you've looked at the Audioholics sites above. It can be found here.

Measurement equipment comes in various ranges and prices. A simple must have is an SPL meter and tripod. Radio shack meters are pretty widely used, and are around $50 for the meter, other SPL meters are also pretty common, but can cost more depending on the brand, calibration, etc. A cheap and easy app is available for some smart phones, (here is an iPhone app for example), but I don't know how accurate they really are. With an SPL meter and a laptop, you can use freeware such as REW to measure your room once you get more comfortable with the setup/tweaking idea. REW can be found here.

Other equipment/software that is commonly used and recommended are the XTZ Room Analyzer and the Dayton Omnimic. These will also need to be used with a computer, are more advanced items, and are pricier. The XTZ starts off at $200 and the Omnimic is about $300, but does more.

Other acoustic items, such as bass traps, etc, are also solid investments.

In the end, it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. I'd highly recommend starting by looking at placement options, as the Audioholics pages are pretty good information, and changing placement is pretty much free. Next would be following the Audyssey set up guide, again it is great info and free. And I'd recommend picking up some kind of SPL meter and using that to verify/tweak the channel levels after Audyssey. The results are well worth it.
post #8508 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Setting the LFE to 120 HZ is fine (I do the same, and it is not responsible for the bad sounds coming from your sub). You are over-driving your sub and/or clipping the signal at that level (+12). If you are not happy with how the sub sounds, check the sub and seating placements, and get some measuring equipment to aid with placement and set up.
Audioholics has a pretty good tutorial on sub placement. Look here , here, here, and here.
A fellow AVS'er (giomania) has created an exceptional Audyssey set up guide, which may also help after you've looked at the Audioholics sites above. It can be found here.
Measurement equipment comes in various ranges and prices. A simple must have is an SPL meter and tripod. Radio shack meters are pretty widely used, and are around $50 for the meter, other SPL meters are also pretty common, but can cost more depending on the brand, calibration, etc. A cheap and easy app is available for some smart phones, (here is an iPhone app for example), but I don't know how accurate they really are. With an SPL meter and a laptop, you can use freeware such as REW to measure your room once you get more comfortable with the setup/tweaking idea. REW can be found here.
Other equipment/software that is commonly used and recommended are the XTZ Room Analyzer and the Dayton Omnimic. These will also need to be used with a computer, are more advanced items, and are pricier. The XTZ starts off at $200 and the Omnimic is about $300, but does more.
Other acoustic items, such as bass traps, etc, are also solid investments.
In the end, it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. I'd highly recommend starting by looking at placement options, as the Audioholics pages are pretty good information, and changing placement is pretty much free. Next would be following the Audyssey set up guide, again it is great info and free. And I'd recommend picking up some kind of SPL meter and using that to verify/tweak the channel levels after Audyssey. The results are well worth it.


Thanks for the excellent information!!
post #8509 of 15581
After proper subwoofer placement which I ended up putting it in the corner and redo the Audyssey auto calibration, the SVS PB12 PLUS sounds... FANTASTIC!!!


I did not do any adjustment to Audyssey calibration. I left everything as is.
post #8510 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

After proper subwoofer placement which I ended up putting it in the corner and redo the Audyssey auto calibration, the SVS PB12 PLUS sounds... FANTASTIC!!!
I did not do any adjustment to Audyssey calibration. I left everything as is.

Glad to hear that your sub is properly working now. Next, go ahead and give it a try with War of the Worlds (Spilberg's movie) and/or Battle LA..........wink.gif
post #8511 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

After proper subwoofer placement which I ended up putting it in the corner and redo the Audyssey auto calibration, the SVS PB12 PLUS sounds... FANTASTIC!!!
I did not do any adjustment to Audyssey calibration. I left everything as is.

Glad you got the sub to sound right. Enjoy.
post #8512 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I have a single PC12-NSD. I was all set and ready to buy her a sister in mid-October, but then a friend of mine fell behind on some payments. I've been through repo... repo ruins everything, for years to come. So eff a subwoofer, where I come from, we take care of our own smile.gif Besides, there's always next month.

Sorry to hear that, I hope everything gets better soon. I can't wait to try duals myself, just have to wait till the next credit card bill rolleyes.gif
Quote:
No, I've never heard the SB12 (nor the PB12, for full disclosure). Also, I think the choice between a PB12/PC12 NSD pair and a single PB12/PC12 Plus is a (deliberately) clear case of two lesser subs' being a better choice than one single sub. Per conversations I've had with the folks at SVS, a Plus has, through most of its pass band, nearly identical maximum output as compared to two NSDs; and the ability to be tuned to 16Hz, which in small rooms like yours and mine, would mean substantial output down to about 14Hz, with perceptible output down, probably, to about 12Hz. While futzing around with test tones, I've determined that my PC12 is strong down to 18Hz, substantial down to 16, and perceptible down to 14 (although its 14Hz output would probably be drowned out by other program material in most normal circumstances). Every knowledgeable enthusiast (including the people at SVS, themselves) has recommended dual NSDs over a single Plus for my small space (a 17x10.5x8 room with a 6x7 aperture that connects this room to a hallway and two smaller rooms--a total of around 3200 cubic feet, give or take).

Good point. It's the same for me -- people in this thread, at SVS and SBA all suggest I go with duals. Yet at low frequencies, every hertz count as the difference between 20 Hz and 10 Hz is a whole octave. But you're right about content: "sub-NSD" (i.e. less than 16-18 Hz) content will be quite rare in general anyway (though it's not difficult to include low-frequency content in a soundtrack...), and the appeal of a Plus or Ultra is probably more in the output, which is not high priority for me at the moment. But as you say, not much of a difference in output between dual PBs or PCs and a Plus.
Quote:
I am not saying that *you* should quit the low Hertz chase at the same place where I did; but I do think that if the SB12-NSD was the right price for you, and if you've been hankering for a more robust home theater experience, then you're in a place where dual NSDs would probably serve you best. Would a Plus be even hot-sexier? Sure. But if you want to double up on Pluses, you're spending $2400 (presently, while they're discounted $100). If SB12-NSD was right for you, then $2400 must have your better half calling a lawyer. I'm single and I can buy anything I can afford, and I would feel too foolish buying a sub in that class, for that cost, when the biggest measurable difference would be output that I'll never use and extension that I'll barely notice.

Dual Pluses are out of question, that's for sure smile.gif But I wonder about dual-PB12-NSDs instead of dual SB12s. Pros and cons for each and as it's a big purchase for me of course I'm all indecision, indecision biggrin.gif As I see it, the pros of dual-SB12s are: cheapest and easiest for me (just purchase an another), easiest to locate in a tight spot means better positioning options, nicer finish (gloss black) and I know what to expect (i.e. more of the same). Cons are mainly hypothetical: maybe I should invest more for a bigger upgrade that will be less subtle. Pros of dual-PB12s would be: way more output, better extension, maybe a different experience altogether? Cons are more numerous: I'd have to find a way to get rid of my SB12 to finance the purchase; it will cost more even if I sell my SB12 at a reasonably good price; no gloss black finish; more cumbersome form factor will be harder to position in a small, crowded room. Also I'm wary of going ported for music -- not that I personally have a preference, but some do and that I'm not sure what to expect. As far as WAF goes, it seems I have the green light, and the fact that the PB12 is at coffee table height is even interesting to her (PCs are out of the question though).

I'm leaning on simplicity and getting another SB12s. Beside if I find the upgrade disappointing I'll have 45 days to change my mind and return it anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamount View Post

in a room around 3500
...
90% HT
...
the SB-12 will solve all my logistic problems, BUT: will the SB-12 work fine ? is it enough for my room ? or i need more than that (PB-12 etc)

As other said, XT32 is enough and maybe even better than an antimode. SVS's own EQ gear (now discontinued) was XT32-based.

But as for the SB12, as an owner, I think you should go with a PB/PC12-NSD at least. Not that the SB12 is not capable, but your room is much larger than mine and if you're going for the HT experience, you'll be happier with a ported sub.
post #8513 of 15581
IMHO. Getting rid of the what ifs is worth it's weight in gold. Not having buyers remorse is awesome! I would for that reason go with dual pb12's especially since you have the waf.
post #8514 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

IMHO. Getting rid of the what ifs is worth it's weight in gold. Not having buyers remorse is awesome! I would for that reason go with dual pb12's especially since you have the waf.

... But what if I prefer the sound of my SB12? biggrin.gif

I know I'm over-thinking this, and you got a good point about clearing what-ifs. But I'm trying to get rid of that habit tongue.gif Yeah getting WAF is a major thing though, maybe I should take the opportunity to order Pluses and play dumb. "Honey I had know idea they would be *that* big!"
post #8515 of 15581
^^^

Regarding the sound of the sealed and ported subs, they will be much more alike than different. I've played with my current and older SVS's subs comparing the sealed versus the various tuned modes, and the differences were very small (current: dual Ultra's, older: dual Pluses of the 12.3 variety, a single Plus of the 12.4 variety, and a SB-12-Plus that was one of the first sealed SVS small box subs). Playing at normal levels, the differences were so small they may have been more thinking I heard a difference than actually hearing a difference. Where I did notice something was in just how much output I could get out of the subs. When I let the Ultra's/Plus's rip on some tracks, I was able to wring a lot more out of them in vented modes, which makes sense.

A lot of mythology exists around sealed subs vs ported ones. Most of the mythology is just that, myth.

Where sealed subs have advantages are: can be in a smaller box, depending on the tweaking of the amp section, they may have a shallower roll off, eq'ing and shaping the lowest frequencies doesn't have the same tradeoffs/issues as trying to boost a signal below a port tune on a vented sub.

Ported subs have other advantages: the porting can help with the efficiency of the sub, giving it some output advantages over a similar sized/powered sealed design. This will especially be noticable around the port tuning on the SVS subs (much more output for the comparable vented boxes below 30Hz, if you look at SB-NSD v. PB/PC-NSD, same with the old SB pluses vs ported pluses, Ultra sealed vs ported sealed).

Sound quality is something that a lot of people seem to think they can hear, but in blind tests fail to do. Archaea's shoot-out is a recent example of this. I wouldn't stress about the ported NSD having lesser sound quality than the sealed NSD, but it will have more output. The trade off is it is in a much larger box.

Anyway, that's just my 1/50th of a dollar.
post #8516 of 15581
Thanks a lot for that clarification Snowmanick. I've heard that the difference is indeed a myth about as often as clearly stated preferences for sealed subs, so it's nice to have a first-hand account. What I figured is that if there's a difference it will most likely be below the tuning frequency where phase characteristics are out of whack. But that means even deeper than what I can hear with the SB12, and where of course the ported subs rapidly lose their ability to play loud anyway.

I'm not sure if I clicked on the link earlier in this thread or elsewhere, but that explanation from HTS arguing for low-tune ported subs with large enclosures made a lot of sense to me. Incidentally the closest SVS product to a LLT sub as described there would be an Ultra in 15 Hz tuning mode.

So let's say the "sealed sound" is not an issue anymore... I think I'll have to try harder to see if anyone in my entourage would be interested in my SB12...
post #8517 of 15581
How important is it to sell the sb first? Otherwise you can order and try with no real risk other than return shipping. That way you can see if the pb is really the way you want to go. Just a thought
post #8518 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

How important is it to sell the sb first? Otherwise you can order and try with no real risk other than return shipping. That way you can see if the pb is really the way you want to go. Just a thought

Well return shipping for a pair of PB12-NSDs would be $125 whereas it would only be $40 for a single SB12. So trying if dual SB12s are sufficient would be much cheaper in case of a return. But that wouldn't clear the what-ifs though rolleyes.gif

I think I'd be able to manage buying two PB12s without selling the SB12 first but I'll have a clearer idea of that when my next credit card bill and travel expense refund arrive... Having a (local) interested party would help a lot in the decision, but it seems none of my friends are as into HT / subs as myself.

I'll ponder this for a few days and keep you posted on the results...
post #8519 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamount View Post

my question is:
in a room around 3500
with onkyo 3008
listening point 10 feet from speakers/sub
the sub will be near the left-speaker
the sub will be 3" from the side wall and 16" from the rear wall
90% HT
i live in a condo, so my volume is usually around 65
the SB-12 will solve all my logistic problems, BUT: will the SB-12 work fine ? is it enough for my room ? or i need more than that (PB-12 etc) ?
one seller told me i MUST have an anti-mode eq: is that true ? i thought the audissey XT32 should be more than enough for eq, isn'it ?
please let me know
thank you very much

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

The Anti-Mode is a fine device, but MultEQ XT32 is at least as good if not better.
As for the sub issue, 3500 cubic feet is a decent sized room, I'd get the most capable sub you can A) afford, B) properly position, C) get past the spouse/roommate/condo board (choose any and all that apply).


just to better understand, what you are telling me is that SVS SB-12 is not "enough" for my 3500 room at the condo volume level (60-65 on onkyo 3008), isn't it ?
but it doesn't depend on how far is the listening point from the speakers/sub ?

and if the pb-12 is the best choice for me, it souds good at condo levels ?

i am "new" in thi world so appreciate very much your advice
post #8520 of 15581
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamount View Post

just to better understand, what you are telling me is that SVS SB-12 is not "enough" for my 3500 room at the condo volume level (60-65 on onkyo 3008), isn't it ?
but it doesn't depend on how far is the listening point from the speakers/sub ?
and if the pb-12 is the best choice for me, it souds good at condo levels ?
i am "new" in thi world so appreciate very much your advice

Hi seamount, and welcome to our world biggrin.gif In all seriousness, the thing is, when talking about low frequencies, the interaction between the speaker (the sub) and the room is much different than with higher frequencies. I too don't listen too loud (because of sleeping toddlers). I can't really comment about the level on the Onkyo; on my receiver it's dB from reference and I typically listen at around -20.

Output (volume) is one thing that people look for in a quality sub, and is one thing that we don't need that much (for the moment). But output is not the only thing you should look for in your sub -- accuracy, and low-end extension, are worth paying for too. The thing with large rooms is that they provide less inherent gain at low frequencies, so if you want the same output below 20 Hz as you get at say, 40 Hz, you'll need a beefier sub than in a small room. While the SB12 is a very nice sub especially for smaller rooms, I think that with a 3500 cu. ft. room, you'll benefit a lot from the additional low-end extension that a ported sub will provide.

You should also drop an e-mail at SVS's customer service. They are always extra helpful and you can be confident that the advice they'll give you will be accurate. I'm actually sad they didn't try to upsell me more biggrin.gif
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