Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 286

I am not sure on what that data is based on but medical science tells me that most humans cant hear below some 20Hz. So SPL does not matter if our ears cant sense that frequency.

And what does 0Hz mean anyway? Nothing is moving but we magically hear something!

I scrolled down for the charts in that thread. As you may have noticed, most of the LFE is in the 20-60 Hz range. There is very little content in most of the charts below 20hz. So in my opinion it is not worth investing several $1000 to feel those frequencies that occur in a few movies for a couple of milli seconds. In all probability that could just be noise?

0 Hz is DC level applied to the driver, so the driver is kept at a position and hold it. Of course it doesn't produce any sound. Technically though it would change the ambient pressure in a sealed room. Even a gigantic driver would be too small to produce any sensation in terms of pressure though. However the rotary subwoofer is basically a fan, and it can raise the pressure statically in a sealed room, thus producing an effective 0 Hz response. Pure genius I say

It is true that the eardrum and bonelets in the ear won't respond to sub-20 Hz frequencies as sound. But the cut-off is not on-off: it's the curve shown in Lecter83's post above. It's the same thing with most of our senses. For example you don't see in the near infrared, unless the source is really bright, in which case it appears as dim red. Acoustically, if the SPL is large enough, it will register in your ear but also with your whole body as pressure pulses, so it's more of a tactile feeling than a purely acoustical one. I have a few "subwoofer test" audio tracks (beware, they can be dangerous to gear not able to handle them -- I think SVS subs are properly protected against that but they are very demanding sources). In those there are frequency sweeps that go below 20 Hz and I assure you I can hear/feel those really well. Same thing with calibration / frequency response sweeps using REW. It's very cool to see the SPL level meter begin to rise below 10 Hz (at levels too low to hear anything though), then begin to feel some sort of pulsing of the air at around 12 Hz and then begin to really hear/feel something around 15 Hz. By 18 Hz it's almost full volume in my room. So to make a story short, the feeling you get from infrasonic is really easily testable.

Now you got a great point though. Paying a grand for accurate reproduction of a tiny portion of the acoustic spectrum is kind of nuts. I don't think it's noise though -- well technically it is -- but when there's significant acoustic energy down to 10 Hz for example, it's really because the sound engineer intended it in the mix. You said before that you doubt the intention was to make the door frame shake. I think it actually is. If you want to listen to what the mixer intended, you have to listen at reference level without dynamic range compression and with gear that can reproduce everything he put in it, including 10 Hz content. In those conditions, whispers sound like whispers, and trucks sound like there's an actual truck in your room. And explosions, well, they're really frightening. I don't listen at those levels and most people don't, but I'm pretty sure the "intended" way to listen to it may *indeed* shake your windows and door frame.

Well still wrong, the argument is becoming sterile and I get tired of repeating the same. We will not agree and put my hand settled the matter.

There really is a lot of information in many movies below 20hz. If not, what sense does that make manufacturers Subwoofers your answer is more extensive than the 20hz?

Here's a bunch of graphs, which show that if there are many movies with a lot of content below 20hz.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts#post_20404062

There are none so blind that will not see.

That may seem to you, spend $ 1,000 (1,000 € in my country), not worth it, is respectable. But not everyone thinks the same.

Also this is a conversation we should not do here.
Since it is a support thread for SVS, it's best to help our partners to any kind of problem with their subwoofers.

For me, I leave the matter settled.

a hug

Man that's funny. I have 4 Ultras, 2 Pluses, 3 Buttkickers, and the ASEQ1 in a 12x12 room lol.

*stands back slowly, bowing*

Can I see some photos?

.

Woww

You have to ask permission of the Speaker, to enter his room, lol.

lol yeah

My speakers and PC13 are in a 10m2 room:






When the SB12-NSD to complement my PC13, I put some pictures (I'll order the room).

Nice. Looking good.

Cool
But can you guide us? I only recognize the... Pluses? on top? of... Ultras (hidden)? And I guess you'd place two more Ultras elsewhere in the room (e.g. in the back)?

And what are those.. subs? ... just below the angled speakers? Ah I see maybe those are older Pluses and the stacked subs are the four Ultras?

Any reason why you put them all on the front stage?

Any reason why you didn't go with, say, dual Submersive / Captivators / Funk instead? I see you're in Canada, maybe that was just because SBA ships to Canada?

Thanks for sharing your setup, it's almost frightening.

id love to see a full picture of the front soundstage/screen

Settled and done. I just ordered the pair of PC-12Pluses

SWMBO insisted: "Buy cheap, buy twice" so i followed her advice

congrats!! be sure to post up how they sound!! your gonna love them.

Taking a shot at some of the gear pictured: Tthe subs are PB13-U's ( *4), The angled speakers are Philharmonic 2's, and the speakers with the wood trim are older Focal's. I also see a Bryston amp, two stacks of Emotiva amps, a Wadia iPod dock, and what looks like Richard Gray's Power Company conditioners and a Benchmark Dac-1 or 2.

I can't ID the tube gear or many of the solid state items.

If I remember, d_m1010 has the Pluses in the back 2 corners of his room as well.

Congrat's on the twins. May they bring you many years of fun.

Congrats, that will be seriously badass. Please let us know what you think of them as soon as you're done with the setup.

I am thinking of getting the PC12-NSD. I thought it is a compromise between the SB12-NSD (weak low end, ok I agree) and the PB12 (too heavy for me). The spec for PC12-NSD says weight is 59lbs. I presume it is the actual weight of the sub and not the shipping weight.

I dont like down firing subs as they make a lot of rustling noise when I run the Antimode 8033. Probably because it is a slow sweep compared to a fast pulse used by Audyssey. I thought this noise may affect the calibration. That was my experience with the HSU STF-2. I was wondering if I can use the PC12-NSD upside down without the stand. I dont want the stand in the way of the driver. Basically it will be like an upward firing sub. Is there any down side (no pun intended) to using the PC12-NSD upside down. Also is the bottom stand of the PC12-NSD removable.

Any feedback is appreciated.

I can't offer any first hand experience, but as long as you make sure you have a few inches of clearance for the ports (at least 2-3"), it should be "doable." It will be a bit more unsteady as you are changing the center of gravity. The base plates are removable. I'd recommend trying it "right-side up" first, why modify something if you don't need to.

Along those lines, the PB12-NSD is only $20 more and 7 pounds heavier, with no need to modify it to suit your no-down firing preference. Personally, I think the box would be a better option in this case. Are you constrained by floor space (footprint) issues?

Also, I don't remember a rustling sound with my old PB12 Pluses (12.3 models) and the Anti-Mode, but I can't verify as I don't have either anymore. Have you asked on the Anti-Mode 8033 thread if others have heard this with downfiring subs? Have you thought of just adding a Sub-Dude from Auralex or the like under one of the cylinders in case it is an issue with the sub coupling with the floor?

You can remove the base from the bottom of the PC12, but you will lose all the stability of PC12, need that foundation to stand on the floor perfectly.

If you remove the base, you have to knock the PC12 on the floor. But the screws that fasten the base have a bell shape and seal the hole where it is bolted, necesitrias a sealant to the screw bolt and still excel.

The best you can do is this:

That's right. The cylinder cabinet is a bit lighter than the box one (although this is more and more apparent with bigger subs).

You already got very good advice, but I just wanted to stress that putting it upside down will make it quite unstable with most of the weight on top. Also I don't think there is any protection (grill) on the woofer side for the PCs (the grill is on top protecting the ports in normal operation). I've never heard of anyone running a PC upside-down, although running cylinder subs on their sides (e.g. under a screen or behind a couch) is if not common at least seen before. You can even use packing foam to hold the cylinder on its side.

Technically the orientation of the woofer is not supposed to make much difference on induced rattling though, unless it's acoustic coupling with the floor, in which case the best solution, as mentioned before, would be an Auralex-type pad or platform. I personally use a couple of acoustical rubber mats meant to be put under hardwood floor under my SB12, which is much cheaper (though probably not as effective as the Auralex Subdude), which produce adequate isolation from my floor.

Wow you are good. The four subs pictured are all ultras for HT (the 2 pluses ARE in the rear corners for 2 channel). The angled speakers are Phil 2s for 2 channel with the Bryston 4BSST2, Benchmark DAC1 HDR, YBA cd transport, and Oyaide cables. The Focals are 10 year old Electras for HT with 2 Emotiva XPA-1s, an XPA-2, and a XPA-3 (for all those Focals), an OPPO 83 SE, Rotel RSP 1570 . I have 5 Richard Gray units. The tube amp is an Elite 80 from Ideal Innovations. There is also a Buttkicker amp showing there.

The PB12 is 93lb shipped which makes me a bit apprehensive. I have to check with SVS regarding the shipping weight of the PC12. If that is also like 85lb, then I might as well get the PB12.

I am basically trying to decide between the SB12-NSD and the bigger options like PB12 and PC12. I dont want a lot of sub 20Hz performance. I just need something that will be flat to some 25Hz. Right now I have the Sunfire True Sub Junior, some 10 yrs old. White it is good for music, I feel that I am missing some bass in movies. I do get a lot of bass sometimes but when I am expecting a lot of bass like a car exploding and falling, I dont get much at all as it is probably below what my sub can handle.

BTW I did try the SVS SB12 of last year and didnt find that it went much lower than my Sunfire. So I dont want to get the SB12 again and get disappointed.

Pardon me for not searching this thread. Are there any advantages of the PC12 over the PB12 other than the foot print. I am not limited by space. No pets, no kids. I should be able to make room for the PB12 in my living room.

Hello Mupi,

The actual weight of each version of SVS is as follows:

PB12-NSD = 29.9 Kg

PC12-NSD = 28.9 Kg

Only 1 Kg weight difference between both, so that the difference in delivery is minimal.

Performance-wise performance, both are the same, same driver, same amp, just different ways, but they share the same internal volume enclosure. You do not have to worry about that, are equal.

The only difference you may notice is that the PC12, is something more violent to be pointing towards the ground the driver (This excites room modes and you might have something more to gain in any given frequency).

I hope you will help.

a hug

: Rolleyes:

The weights of the ported NSDs are:

PB12-NSD: 66 lbs (shipping weight: 98 lbs)
PC12-NSD: 59 lbs (shipping weight: 89 lbs)

I took the numbers from sonicboomaudio.com (SVS's canadian distributor). So not that much of a difference, so if you like the box form factor better and do not have floor space issue, I don't see much reason to go with the PC. The performances will be exactly the same.

In that case I'd say don't go with the SB12 this time

In all seriousness, it may also be that the source material is lacking bass. Not all movies are mixed the same and sometimes explosions involves upper bass (which in my case is handled by my tower's woofers). Sub-40 Hz frequencies sound like rumbles so they're not necessarily present in huge quantity in effects such as explosions.

You should get a blu-ray or two in the lists posted above and set on a few test scenes that you could watch with your Sunfire, and then when you get your chosen SVS. If you don't feel it is much of an improvement you can send the SVS back for a total refund (minus shipping fees for the return). Maybe what you need is something with even more output than an NSD (though the ported NSD will have more than twice the output of the SB12 up to 40 Hz and more overall output up to 60+ Hz).

Well I went ahead and did the deed... ordered an SB13 ultra to try out alongside the SB12. I'll return one or the other. Dual SB12s is a non-starter, as are the big ported boxes (WAF reasons). Same for the cylinders. But the nice compact little SB13 Ultra box I can slip by. The pricetag is not small, but ... what the hell.

I'm gonna see what 600 more watts, 1.5" more driver size, 3 more inches on each dimension, and $900 more dollars will do. There is the ability to EQ two frequencies and for my situation, the black oak veneer has aesthetic appeal more than the glossy box.

I just gotta know....

If it can't bring tears to my eyes... I'll send it back and stick with the SB-12NSD. If it can... well, I gotta know. I'll see if there really is "LFE info I didn't know about".

Be back in a week or two with the outcome.

It all depends on what you're trying to get out the sub. If you looking for lots of loud sub 20hz peformance for some HT soundtracks, I don't know if the SB13 will please. If you love music like I do, you will be more than pleased.

Well return shipping is $50 ($30 for the sb12) according to svs. I'll be disappointed if it is not a HT game changer and will send it back in that case. It should double my LFE output AND go deeper than single SB12. So I hope you're wrong. But if you're right, that's ok too I'll accept the "room + wife" equation in that case and keep the 12 which is in my opinion ENTIRELY adequate.

We'll see. Worth a $50 gamble to see for myself.