Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 289

Going to get a PB13 Ultra, to go with my satellite system. Hopefully it blends well...

Well amazingly it should go well, the Ultra going up to 150 Hz.

But let's just say you'll have a setup biased toward bass.

Yes hahaha exactly. I'm actually pretttty crazy about bass, esp. in movies. So I won't be too worried about a system biased towards bass. I love the satellites they go real hard (They are Polk's btw, so thats why), but the sub I got with it wasn't good enough for me.

I might add a pair of RTI A5's to help it blend with the sub more, but I'm not sure yet haha.

Cheers for the help:)

was just reading some posts of people concerned about the size of the PB-12 Plus. Yes, it is BIG. And yes, at first, it seems too big. But after a couple of months, you'll get used to it and won't even notice its size.

In fact, my wife, who at first thought the PB-12 Plus was too big and was not too happy with me, even recently suggested we get another PB-12 Plus to balance out the look of the room. Seriously. She doesn't know how much I paid for the first one...

The price and size of these things are killing me and my poor wife is having to listen to my whine as I complain about trying to fit a pair into the living room, she hears the price and then I have to listen to her whine in return.

Heck, I'm getting tired of hearing the whine...be a man, make a decision and tell the wife to move her furniture to make room and that just the way it's going to be!

Only problem, it's my tape measure that's told me I'm SOL, not the wife. Ya can't beat the tape.

I was even able to get the budget jacked up from $1,500.00 to $2,600.00 but the tape measure keeps knocking me back down.

The irony, the wife jokingly said, well, we might as well put a sub there and dang, much to her chagrin, it was a great suggestion. I just might end up with three subs.

Can you give us a model for your current Polk satellite setup? It seems there's a bunch of them and their low-frequency cutoff are hard to find. I see that the RM101 go down to 95 Hz so there would be a nice overlap with the Ultra's 150 Hz upper-range. And while the Ultra's upper -3dB point is quoted as 150 Hz, it's because there's a small dip just after that; it continues rather flat afterward until almost 300 Hz so you should be good to go anyway.

Anyway if you have any leftover change after that purchase though, yeah of course an updated front stage would do you good. I don't know much about Polk speakers but if you do add full-size fronts, especially towers such as the RTi A5, don't neglect the center speaker, especially if your AVR cannot use separate crossovers for the various channels.

lol I'm with you on this as at first I found even the SB12 big. But now I feel I could have put something much bigger in its place and it wouldn't have made much difference. The problem with the PB12-Plus for me is not much the height or width, but the depth. If you keep the back (connexion, heat sink, etc.) a few inches from the wall, and you keep the grille on (2" more), you end up with about 30" of ingress toward the center of the living room to manage.

It's also much more difficult to move, and here in Canada, shipping is much more expensive to boot. So I think I'd go with the PC12-Plus, which doesn't use up more floor space than the NSD version, and is cheaper (both on the price tag and for shipping), and easier to move around. That being said, I'd love to have a massive wooden cabinet & grille to look at. No decision yet but I'd probably save something like $500 going with dual cylinders versus dual boxes if I go with the Plus. This is not negligible. The only drawback (beside pure looks maybe) would be the usefulness as a coffee table -- which is nil with the cylinder

Exactly. But in your case, can you go the cylinder way?

Thanks. An excellent suggestion as I looked at the SVS, PC12-plus cylinders and they're 40" high.

In the same price range, for a compromise, I'm looking at a pair of Hsu, ULS-15, sealed (18"x18"x18"), subs. Great for music and at 25 Hz, a single unit is capable of 109dB in their large demo room. In our smaller living room home theater, a pair of them should be able to do better then the THX reference level requirement of 115dB. Currently, I'm waiting on graphs to be e-mailed so I can compare Hsu graphs with SVS's graphed information.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/29/12 at 11:44am

Well SVS does have lots of competition nowadays in all price ranges. I don't think any of the ID subs available right now are bad offerings, so it's a win-win situation for us. SVS does offer lots of interesting features and perks (from the metal grille to their set of promises, free shipping and warranties) but they're no longer alone when you want true 20 Hz extension on the cheap. You can't really beat physics though. If you want the performance of a Plus you'll have to get a something that is very close to a Plus in terms of size and form factor. However I think SVS are still the only ones who offer cylinders.

In Canada, most of the ID subs carry an additional shipping cost, and most often the warranty is lost. SVS is an exception as they have a canadian distributor who offers the warranty itself and ships on the cheap. In total, under, say, $1500, SVS can't be matched in bang-for-buck in Canada. Above that Funky Waves might be a contender as they are a canadian company. However I can't afford duals of *those*

If you look for SVS's competitors, apart from Hsu, be sure to look at Rhytmik, Epik, and the others. You can get dual Epik Empires for the price of a single PB12-Plus (though that does not include shipping). Or a Rhytmik FV15HP, which is also highly regarded.

Of course if you're looking at sealed subs you just missed introductory pricing on the SVS SB13-Ultra, but you might want to consider it if you got the budget, since it's much smaller than a Plus.

Currently I'm vacillating between SVS's and Hsu's offerings as both offerings are screaming; "Buy me!"

Hi Neutro,

I have the Polk Blackstone TL2600 package. It has 4 satellite speakers. One centre. And a sub. Unfortunately these don't go as low as the RM's. They only go down to 125Hz. Which is fine? I have my current sub crossed over at 150Hz. I'm not sure if I can crossover certain speakers. I can adjust the level and EQ them. I'll try get those towers but I'm not sure if my amp can handle them. Its a 7.1 Yamaha HT 6063. It gives out 130 Watts per channel (Dynamic, not continuous). The recommended power for the RTI A5's is 20-250 Watts per channel.

What are the negatives of setting a high crossover on the sub, other than the fact it becomes more locatable? Is it putting more strain on it since its covering a wider frequency range?

You'll be fine with a crossover between 125 and 150 Hz. I'd aim around 140 Hz but this will depend on the capabilities of your AVR. For example mine will only do 120 or 150 Hz. In that case I'd chose 150 Hz, as if you go with 120 Hz, there will be a response dip between the sub's range and your satellites'.

Dude you'd be totally fine with that AVR and towers 250 W is the max (RMS) that the speakers can take. It's wise to have speakers that can take more than what your amp can deliver. The A5 are modern, easy to drive towers, with 8-ohm nominal impedance and 90 dB sensitivity. That means that 1W will get you 90 dB right there (at 1m), and each doubling of input power will add 3dB. In a realistic scenario, most of the times you'll only use a few watts per channel. But the most power-hungry part of what you play will be handled by your sub anyway. So if budget is not a problem, go ahead, you'll be totally fine. I have Energy RC-70s, which are in many ways similar to the A5, and drive them with a similar (but slightly crappier) AVR .

Again, I hope you don't mind me calling you "dude", but Dude, you're getting and Ultra. I don't see what could strain that; or if we put it another way, you'll destroy your AVR and satellites way before you strain your sub. Yeah, the negatives are mostly the fact that you may want some stereo (and surround) effects down to 80 Hz or so, ideally. and keep male voices out of the sub channel as much as possible. But it's no big deal (unless you have a sub that is not able to go as high as you need it, but it's not your case).

Hey Neutro,


Haha nah its fine you can call me dude haha. Well that clears A LOT of things up for me. I had that doubt about the amp and the towers for quite a while now!

I've been doing a lot of research between the PB 13 and the Submersive. And keep leaning toward the submersive, because of its performance. Its $200 more than the ultra for me so it doesnt seem tooo bad. However it does not have near as much customizing options as the Ultra does. The room modes are pretty terrible in my room and I dont have a decent calibrating system. I have the YPAO on my reciever but its nowhere as good as Audessy. The Ultra has an option or two known as Room correction and Room compensation, and I was figuring this solves the problem of bad room modes a little? Im pretty sure I will go with the Ultra but yea I am getting second thoughts...


Thanks for all the help bud

Well the Submersive of course is very highly regarded as well. But I think with shipping and available options (more powerful amp, finish, etc.) it could be way more expensive. You're right to consider it though because the price difference becomes less critical when you've decided you'll be dropping two grands on a sub. In fact when you reach this point you have so many options available that it's actually hard to reach a decision. For example, many in this thread would prefer running dual-$1k subs than a single $2k sub. If you have trouble with room modes, this might be something to consider as well if you didn't already click "buy" Running dual subs helps in evening out the room response and offers a better uniformity if you want good bass throughout your listening room.

The room correction / compensation settings on the Ultra -- which I must say I'm not familiar with -- may help a bit but the problem is that the room correction is simply a set of 3 parametric filters (PEQs). You can boost or attenuate your room response at three specific frequencies if you want, but you're on your own as for measuring them. This can be done rather cheaply if you have a laptop (with the free Room EQ Wizard software) and an SPL meter. Or, you could also budget a separate EQ gear that can apply to any sub you might buy. The cheapest and most versatile (but complex) way to do it is to buy a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, which has a bank of 12 PEQs per channel. The REW software can be used in conjunction with the BFD to EQ out peaks in your room response. This is what I do. It's very interesting but it's a bit more demanding than the other, more expensive methods: buying automated sub calibration gear, such as an AVR equipped with Audyssey XT or an Antimode 8033 or similar offerings.

My point is that the room correction options in the Ultra are nice to haves, but it's not a silver bullet and should not drive your decision. At best it will partly replace the above-mentioned BFD which runs around $100, if you want to compute per-buck equivalents And I'm not disparaging the Ultras here: my mouth waters looking at those. What I like best in the Plus and Ultras is that they can be tuned at either 20 Hz or 16 Hz or be sealed. This is why I'm considering dual Pluses now.

So if PEQs should not drive your decision, what should? It's hard to say but SVS does offer compelling arguments in their favor. If you're in the US, you get free shipping, 5-year warranty, and the Promises are pure genius (although with an Ultra, you can't really upgrade since you'd already be at the top of the line). For me, the metal grille is a very welcome feature as I have a 2-yo toddler who loves kicking things.

Good luck with your purchase!

No losers between those two. Both the SubM and Ultra are great subs. Tough decision.

You mentioned the price difference is only $200 for you, are you in the lower 48 states, or ...?

The price difference is a little different for most people. The Ultra in $1,999 shipped to the lower 48. The SubM is $2,195 + shipping (~$130-$160 per Seaton's estimates). If you live in/near Chicago, this may not apply. If you are looking at the SubM HP they are $2,295 + shipping (same est's). This is assuming you are not getting any repeat customer discounts from either company. So, the price differences are $325-$355 after shipping, if you are looking for the non-HP version, or $425-$455 for the HP version.

Then there is the finish. The Ultra only comes in two finishes (unfortunately) while the SubM comes in a pretty wide variety. Something to keep in mind though, is that it is an additional charge to get the one of the finishes that the Ultra comes in (Piano Black). The SubM has several gorgeous options (very drool inducing), but if the standard finish (black oak or black maple) aren't your thing, the other finishes can add $100-$700 more.

I personally think their is a very good chance a SubM HP may outgun an Ultra, at least above 30Hz and below port tuning, and maybe in this region as well. By how much, I don't know. The user reports for the SubM have been fantastic, but part of that is factored into the price. And if you like Piano Black finishes (which not everybody does), then that price difference can become pretty large. A SubM HP in Piano Black is $3,125-$3,155 shipped. To be fair though, if you are looking at a black oak, non-HP SubM the price is a much closer $2,325-$2,355 shipped, and it is still a knock out sub. I don't think the Seaton's are overpriced, just that they are a bit more expensive to a lot more expensive, depending on the finish, etc..

The parametric EQ options on the Ultra (in addition to the room Comp and variable tuning) give a little more flexibility to the Ultra as well. Nice to have, but at this price range I think an external EQ and a little setup effort isn't out of the question (and is definitely recommended), so some of their benefit is mitigated. SVS also offers a bit of a better warranty (5 year bumper-to-bumper vs 3 years for the enclosure and drivers and 2 years on the amp for the SubM), if that factors into your decision matrix is up to you.

In the end though, like I said, no losers here. Both are very, very good sub's, at or near the very tip-top of performance, with very solid engineering and design. Both also come from good companies, and are the products of people who are passionate about what they make.

* If you are in another country, even Canada, I have no idea what the differences are in price/shipping/tax/benefits or cons of distributor base.

Apparently Neutro beat me to the point here. Dang work calls interrupting my posting!

I hated it when that happened, so I retired.

Well you did a much better job comparing the SubM and the Ultra, which in fact I can't really do since the relation I have with those mostly consists in me looking at pictures of them on the internet.

Hahaha no worries mate, both you're guys posts were VERY HELPFUL.

I don't live in USA, more the like the other side of the world, New Zealand. Soo shipping is quite a biggie. The Submersive costs me $985 for shipping.... crazy ae? But even still it only ends up being $200 more than the Ultra. The Ultra costs me 3.2k and the Submersive (Original, Standard finish) 3.4k. I will definitely not consider a finish which will cost me more for the Seaton. Far too costly, esp. the polish.

@Neutro- The audio market down here really isn't sophisticated at all. SVS and brands alike are totally unknown here. So the same goes for EQ systems. I will try suss something out but yea. I'm pretty sure I'll go with the SVS.


Thanks A LOT for all the help guys! Reallly helps me out!

Not sure where Mark Seaton's post did go (maybe he's not allowed to post as a sales representative here?) but you get the idea: in both cases (SVS and Seaton) you'll get very good service. I'm in Canada so I understand a bit of your concern in terms of availability of various stuff including subs and EQ gear, though shipping fees are not as high of course. The $200 difference (or whatever it is in the end) is nothing compared to the bulk of the investment (above $3k) so it should not really enter the equation at this point.

As for EQ gear, it would be surprising if you can't find the BFD or get it shipped cheaply even in NZ. This is common show gear -- its usefulness as sub EQ gear is simply coincidental as it is a tool, as its name indicates, that hunts and tone down feedback mics-and-speakers setup. The most popular model is the Behringer DSP1124P. That and an SPL meter with a known calibration curve will set you back maybe $200. It's not mandatory gear but it may help you tame room modes in your case.

Another option for that budget is to get two smaller subs -- this may also be cheaper for shipping. I have the same problem in essence: I wish to get smaller subs that I can fit in a small living room, and I think I'll go towards dual PC12-Pluses. The cylinders are much lighter than the boxes, and cost much less to ship. Dual Pluses will have a bit more output than an Ultra as far as I can tell, and having two subs should really help with room modes. The only thing that is maddening is knowing that the budget for *that* would get me an Ultra or even a Submersive. But for me, trying duals is the next step.

If you're willing to go in the Ultra-to-Submersive budget, maybe you can extend your search and include the various flavors of JTR Captivators, and also the canadian-made Funk Audio subs. In any case, if you're looking at spending upwards of $3k in subwoofage, I think it would be wise to keep in mind that upgrading your front stage to full-sized speakers (not necessarily towers, could be bookshelves) would give you lots of benefits too.

Woooo no school again tomorrow (I am a teacher) use to sandy. Now lets hope the sub still comes tomorrow and i still have power!! All day to play

Good luck, we heard from several of the truckers in the storm's way are cutting back or closing....lots of airlines have cancelled flights, too. Should back things up nicely the rest of the week.

^^^

Keep safe people. That looks like one he** of a storm bearing down on you.

Did Mark post on this issue? I never saw

I will try suss something out in regards to EQing eventually. You will be surprised how insignificant that stuff is here

I'm most likely just going to get one sub. I've never had a high end sub before, so I'll see how one goes first!


And to those people who are in the area of the Hurricane. I hope you stay safe!

Yeah, as Snowmanick said, just keep safe. The sub can wait if it has too. Although getting it during a storm day and not losing power to boot would definitely rock.

I saw his post in the email preview but by the time I accessed the forums it was deleted (by whom, I don't know). Since it was deleted I'm not sure if I should state its content (maybe it was just incorrect) but you should maybe contact him; it was about shipping costs to New Zealand.

Considering you don't have your sub yet it can indeed wait a bit Anyway there are multiple options and it's not like the sub wouldn't work without EQ. If you're going with the Ultra and plan on using its PEQs, you can "manually" plot the frequency response if you have an SPL meter by playing tones and noting the SPL at each frequency. Then you'd know where to apply the Ultra's filters. So a first step would be to get an SPL meter -- it's always very useful for calibrating subs anyway.

Hi Neutro,


Okay yeah it probably was information on prices to NZ. He has contact me Via email. Really good to see that the head of the brand has the consideration and time to help out potential customers! Overall service from Seaton Sound was 10/10.


I think I have the tools to do the EQing. I have that YPAO mic i got with my Yamaha reciever. I'll need other stuff as well obviously. I'm not sure if my onboard soundcard will be fit for the job..

I've never done EQing before, soooo I'll probably need some help when the time comes haha


Gotta say THANKS Neutro for all the help!

I think most ID sub makers have outstanding service -- but I agree Mark contacting you about shipping fees is extra nice. You probably did contact SVS already but their customer service is also top notch. You said you were considering the PB13-Ultra. Not only the PC13-Ultra would be a bit cheaper but again shipping costs would be lowered. Are you considering a cylinder? Then again with such a premium on getting things delivered to NZ you might as well go with the nicest finish possible

EQing is not critical so don't fret too much about it for now. But alas the mics that come with AVRs cannot really be used with REW and other gear because their calibration curve is unknown (and nobody wants to pay $200 to have that calibrated by a pro). Without the calibration curve, your room response measurement will include the mic's response itself, which is generally not flat at all. So you'll end up EQing for the mic, which is not what you want. As for the onboard soundcard, it depends. They're not recommended by the REW team, but I calibrated mine using the method they recommend, and the noise floor was below (but close to) the maximum they recommend. So for me I see little reason to invest in an external audio adapter. I ordered the very well known Radio Shack SPL meter -- which is not everyone's favorite, but it's cheap, easy to use and its calibration curve is available. It doubles up as a mic of course. If you go for a higher-end mic, you may want an SPL meter as well to be able to put the room response on the correct SPL scale.

In my case, my EQ gear was less than $200 vs about $400 for the Antimode (which is fully automated). The process is more involved but I love being able to turn my living room into an audio lab

So storm is gone. Everything is fine just finished cleaning all the debris I the yard. Just waking on FedEx now hahah. Tracking still says on time. But has t been updated to say out for delivery. It still says "left the Ohio FedEx station" i am feeling it won't come today. Oh well.

I'm new to most subs as I've finally decided to upgrade my old sub after a decade. I'm currently leaning towards the SB13 Ultra. I was surprised to find out that SVS used to offer both cloth and metal grills. I'd prefer a cloth grill but apparently the majority of people chose metal when they offered both. I'm curious for the people who would prefer the metal grill - is that becuase of looks or do you have children that you fear will damage the cone? I'm more concerned about sunlight and dust so for me the cloth would be a better choice. Just curious why more people prefer the metal?