Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 290

^^^
Kids. And cats, but mostly kids.

Dust isn't much of an issue, and unless sunlight is hitting the opening of the grill just right, I doubt it would be much of a factor either.

There was no option for me, I purchased my first SVS (a PB12 +) as a second hand unit. So, the original buyer choose the metal grill for that unit. I was a little bit concerned about how this metal grill will look compared with all my other speakers sporting cloth grills. To be honest, it looked great!

The SVS by itself had a beautiful rosenut finish and the grill just complement the look of the subwoofer. Have a look of the grill itself:

I think most of the pictures out there don't do SVS's metal grilles justice. I have an SB12 -- basically the same overall shape as the SB13 -- and it looks absolutely great with its grille. Kind of an industrial but at the same time high-end look. And as said previously, well, yeah, the grille is kid-proof. Worst that can happen is you find out the kid has dropped crayons or a stuffed toy in the gap on top; but they can't access the driver itself. Also you can't kick the driver accidentally. So, love it for the looks and sturdiness.

EDIT: oh and cr -- I was not talking specifically about your picture. Yours is in fact quite good
Edited by neutro - 10/30/12 at 5:02pm

So... tomorrow then? Will the classes resume?

At least you only got debris to clean, and you seem to have power and internet.

Not sure on either. The FedEx site did not update it. Also my school at this point does. It have power so not sure. Buthey have not cancelled school yet. We will see. Either way that thing better get here. I have been rereading reviews of it over and over haha. Getting me more and more excited to get it

Should I re-do the audiessey when it comes?

OK guys. Guess what.

Can you believe it?

I clicked "buy" after so many weeks. I don't know when the twin towers will be there yet. I expect to just laugh at how overkill dual PC12-Pluses will be for me but this was the best option for me in order to 1) try out duals and 2) get variable tuning which will allow me to trade sheer output for extension.

Now the question will be how do I integrate and EQ them. I have a BFD which has two channels. So I can either split them after the BFD and use only one channel (i.e. EQ the subs together) -- which I think is the most common way. Or, I could try EQing them individually. Granted in a few minutes I'll hit Google and research all of this but if anyone has advice on that topic I'm know very, very interested.

Also I know cr got driver polarity issues on its dual Ultras. How did you check that out again? If I remember, you ran the subs side by side and saw if you got +6dB vs running them individually? I just want to check prior to setting them up. What is the general accepted way to set the gains on dual subs (assuming they're EQed together and not running out of a MultEQ XT32 AVR with multi-sub capabilities)? I guess I should position them, set the gains so that test tones produce about the same SPL at the listening position when running them individually, and then set up dual operation and EQ?

Congrat!! Very excited for you. My old cylinder was basically the exact same as your duals except mine was passive and powered by a sason 1000 amp. I had it tuned with two ports closed down to 16hz since my room was a closed 12x12x7.

I am very envious of your new setup. Good luck and please report. I can't help with the eq but am interested in hearing about it. Both of us upgrading from sb12s to much louder and deeper setups. Very exciting!!

Yes you should -- there is now way to know in advance how to set up the gain on your new PB12-NSD so that it produces the same SPL as your SB12. Well you could measure it and adjust it by hand. Or, you could use Audyssey

F I N A L L Y !!!!!

Congrats on the purchase, you will be really happy with your PC12-Pluses. So, when is the big day? I mean, you should have an ETA, right?

So, when should we start talking about the upgrade to Ultras? LOL

Cheers man............I'm really happy for you!

Well I planned on using the test tones and spl meter. Just didn't know if audiessey was necessary ( I didn't think those little thumps really measured much haha)

16 Hz tune is my plan too as I'm pretty sure I'll have plenty of headroom to EQ that flat... Ah I remember the catch now. I was saying "flat to absurdly small frequencies" but I think the lowest the BFD goes is 20 Hz. Below that the subs will be on their own. My room is 10x20x8 and there's an open doorway to a similar-sized room, so a bit bigger than yours. I hope with two Pluses I'll be able to reproduce what you got then

I'll sure report. You know me by now. But I admit the situation is kind of unreal, just engaging the funds and getting a confirmation e-mail. I think reality will hit hard twice: once the two almost-100 lbs packages will get there (or I'll have to go fetch them at the warehouse), and when the credit card bill will be due

Now I also have to find a new home and a new, caring owner for my trusty SB12. I think I'm pushing things quite far with dual cylinders, I can't make my GF consider putting the SB12 in the kitchen

neutro, congrat's on the twins.

As for the BFD, when I was using one with REW I tried using 1 and 2 channels. I found it worked best when I just summed them and ran them off of one channel.

As for the levels/gain, their are two schools of though. Gain matching and level matching. With gain matching you set both subs to the same gain (duh right?) and then use the trim level in the AVR to adjust/match to your mains. This prevents one subwoofer from having to work harder, and potentially get driven to distortion/clipping.

The other, more traditional technique is level matching. Using an SPL meter and either the AVR's test tones or from a disc, level the subs, one at a time, so that they are both playing at the same level at your main listening position.

Depending on where you place them you may also want to adjust the phase settings.

I'd adjust the levels and phase before trying to EQ, but REW can be very helpful when adjusting phase, so it's up to you.

Congrat's again.

Perusing Google I managed to find my own question on the topic in this thread dating back to last July. I feel kind of dumb, especially since there were good answers and I added my own reasoning as well. I think it's a sign I spend too much time here

You're right it seems that EQing them together is the way to go. First, by all accounts it works. Second, and this is the point I myself raised... if you apply a PEQ you induce some phase peculiarities in the signal at the affected frequencies. If you use the exact same filter profile for the two subs, they will just add up (assuming they were in phase at the beginning). If you use different filters on each sub, then the phase peculiarities may interact in unpredictable way when the waveforms add up, and produce peaks or valleys where there were none before.

But I had almost forgotten about adjusting phase! Thanks for reminding me. And I had heard about gain matching and level matching before but had forgotten that. Funny how two different methods both make sense at the same time. I guess with ample headroom both would not present any problem. Gain matching is the easiest for sure, but if I end up with one of the sub much closer to the listening position I guess level matching would make more sense.

As for positioning, I think I'll have few options, but options nonetheless. Two in the front (inside the mains so that they're not to close to the corners) seem to be a popular choice. I know one of the preferred way is one dead center forward and one dead center in the back, but with cylinders this is not possible. (Wait a minute... maybe I could put one sub behind the TV in fact... but there's no way I could put the second behind the listening position). The other options are one on either side on the front, and the other close to the listening position, on a side, about 1/3 the length of the room. I guess if I do that the two subs should not be on the same side of the room? Or does it matter?

Different room shapes create all kinds of different one off situations/issues/solutions, but a general rule of thumb that has worked for me is opposing walls. Either front/back (if possible, which it doesn't sound like from your post), or one on either side wall. One of the primary advantages of multiple subs is the ability to smooth out bass, and having the subs on one wall, and relatively close to each other (one each between the center and the mains), limits their ability to due that.

In practice though, try the options you have and measure them to see which works best.

On a side note, I tend to keep a couple of long RCA cables on hand (cheapo 50ft ones I got from Radio Shack for $5 or $10) and use those when testing locations before I run any final lines. Once I know where I want to put the subs, I run the nice clean cable (in wall/ceiling/under floor or carpet) to the spot.

Sadly, I developed this habit after running a few lines based off of guesses only to find out the spots weren't the best. Live and learn, right?

Congrats Neutro, hopefully all goes well!

Yup SVS has very good service as well!

Hmm yeah I'm not keen on cylinders ae. I won't be buying a new sub again for a while so I want to stick to what I am already familiar with.

I'll look at the EQ stuff when the time comes. I don't know much at all about it. Will have to do research. But Thanks for the help on it. I will consult it when the time comes

Thanks Neutro!

All the best with you're new cylinders!

Neutro, congrats on your purchase ! About time.:.. I have dual sb12s in a somewhat larger room. For placement, I tried to keep things as simple as possible. Subs are just behind my mains, about 1/3 of the way from each corner. I am interested in following your progress with sub integration using REW. What kind of main speakers do you have, and what is BFD?

ok, so My PB12 is coming in today. and i let the wife in on a secret that it is MUCH bigger than the sb12 haha she was ok with it...in fact she then said..."hey I want to get a train table for Max (our son) how much would bookshelf speakers be?" I have Klipsch Reference floor standers which match the rest of my system.

so my question is....(i know this is off topic) what should I do...should I get reference Bookshelfs at 550 for the pair...or is there somthing else that would blow me away ...albeit having to buy a new center speaker as well. I am willing to listen to what you guys think. This will also help the sound a bit as I will be able to put the subwoofer in a more bass friendly spot with my left speaker gone and can also add the possibility of duals down the road

also it should blend well with my new pb12 (to help keep this slighhtly on topic haha)

+1

Took awhile, but I love the end result. Nice choice.

Order is not shipped yet. It's been *hours* since I clicked the "buy" button!

I'll keep you posted on my integration efforts and will try to take more measurements. In fact since I want to compare with my single SB12 I should make some measurement with it first.

I have Energy RC-70s mains (with RC-LCR center and RC-10 surrounds). The BFD is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer (DSP1124P), which is a $100 or so piece of gear generally used in show rooms to control / eliminate feedback in mics+speakers setup. But it has a "manual" mode and two banks of 12 parametric filters, which makes it a good EQ device. It's not automatic though: you have to program the PEQs. The good thing is that REW is able to generate a set of filters and upload them to the BDF through a MIDI connection.


Keep us posted on the arrival of your SB12's ported sibling. I'm not getting why getting a train table will imply switching to bookshelves though... If you can't get around it and if you're satisfied with your current speakers, I would stay in the family and get the matching bookshelves. As for the PB12, I'm pretty sure it will integrate well with anything.

Oops I missed those posts

He he sorry guys and thanks for all the advice.

Not yet -- I got the confirmation email but nothing else for the moment. I doubt they will be delivered before the weekend.

Seriously, I'm still stunned I purchased dual Pluses, and this will be bordering the absurd in my living room. Upgrade to Ultras, Submersives, Funk Audios, JTR Captivators or Orbit Shifters, etc. will have to wait until I either move to a much larger house, or I decided to build a bunker in the backyard.

I don't have an AVR with Audyssey but typically the white/pink noise measure the overall volume and EQ needed, while the small thumps are used to measure distance and maybe reverb. The problem with test tones is that they give volume at a single frequency, while you should adjust the volume on a larger range. Pink noise is a better way to adjust volume -- it is constant and uses all the frequencies.

no clue...i guess that is a wife being a wife...haha that few feet will make a huge difference i guess who knows.

Well the pb12 came..i ran home for lunch and put it in place and hooked it up...no chance to test or calibrate.

but this thing is HUGE!! way bigger than i thought..i actually really felt a little sheepish....but once in its spot it isnt as bad. I cant wait until trick or treating is over tonight to calibrate and maybe run a test or two (tomorrow night will be better since the wife is working). Ill let you know how it turns out, but by sheer size difference alone..this thing should blow the sb12 away

I still fail to see how removing two floorstanding speakers can create room for a table. Would you place the bookshelves on the wall? On actual shelves? Because you may need stands, and really, stands + bookshelf speakers will take about the same amount of floor space as towers, unless you have gigantic towers. I don't know Klipsch References that much but they're not Rockport Arrakis either.

Considering you knew the dimensions and were prepared, it's a bit frightening...

Well I'm of the opinion that calibrating that thing should produce plenty of scary noises that would provide an interesting ambiance. I can't wait for you to tell us if it's indeed night and day versus the SB12. Actually quite few people in this thread compared the sealed and ported SVSes. Yeah the graphs are there on data-bass and audioholics but I'm eagerly waiting for your first-hand account.

ill let you know asap. and to answer your questions:

I will be wall mounting IF we go bookshelfs. I guess she wants less on the floor so the room wont look as cluttered and she wants to put the table on the side of the HT where the floorstander is to give more room for the table extending outward. dont know if that makes sense, but I get where she is coming from

Knowing the dimensions and actually seeing it in reality are two TOTALLY different things! i measured out the space..and until you have the big black monstrosity in your place..you dont get the full gist of it. haha. oh well. just to be clear..it slid in perfectly to the space I prepared for it...just looks very big..haha

Ok after a quick and I mean only 3 locals for odyssey and an spl calibration. I threw in how to train your dragon. OH MY GOD!!!!! This is what I needed! This thing blows the SB out of the water. Not even close how amazing this is!!

Low low low and LOUD! It's the shaking I forgot about. I guess time makes you forget since it was about 6 years since I had the 20-39+

Nuetro, you are gonna crap your pants with dual pluses!! I can't wai to research my collection of five star movies

Ooookaay. So if the PB12-NSD is that far from the SB12...

My god what I have done...



(Still nothing in terms of ETA).

EDIT: I take it you'll keep the PB and send back the SB?

Haha. Yeah you are going to love your new setup. Yes I will be parking up the sb12 soon. I wish I went the Pb first. But I defiantly had to ease the wife into the sub idea again. I will report more soon

Congrats! You really need to re-watch War of the Worlds (tripod emerge scene). Then you will be even more impressed with your sub.

Now, the big question is: have you tried it with music? If yes, how much difference it makes?

I will make sure to play that tomorrow!

And no. No music yet. ny recommendations ?

Have fun with WOW, if you alone at home it will be even better. Last time I was watching it, my wife in the second floor came down the stairs to tell me to put the volume down........LOL.

Recommendation about music? Well, I would say just play few of your favorite tracks. The ones that you know pretty well, so you can clearly notice how the ported sub performs versus your SB12. Report back your impression on music.

I might be building a setup just for "music", so I'm not sure if I want to go with a ported or sealed sub.