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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 301

post #9001 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulNEPats View Post

Hey Guys,
I'm debating between an SVS PC12-NSD vs Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. I was set on the SVS sub, but the $499 BF deal on the outlaw is very enticing. Taking overall price/performance into account, which way would you guys go out of these two options?

i dont know man, the svs is more "enticing" to me, i dont let the price steer me away from quality.
Edited by lamonsasa - 11/24/12 at 8:59am
post #9002 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You're right, the Klipsch, RW12d isn't even close. It's an upgrade path subwoofer. I was trying to show where I place subs based on online information I've found as a form of encouragement for your intended purchase decision.
At the price point of the PB12-NSD, my opinion, there is a better performing subwoofer.


i just dont want to buy this sub for $700 and then be burned by finding out a better subwoofer is there for perhaps.. cheaper.. ? what about the hsu vtf3 or the outlaw? i noticed that they "scored" better in a test? but i dont like the fact that they can be tuned in so many ways, it confuses me (like how u can block one hole on the sub, all kinds of knobs and switches etc)
Edited by lamonsasa - 11/24/12 at 8:58am
post #9003 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulNEPats View Post

Hey Guys,
I'm debating between an SVS PC12-NSD vs Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. I was set on the SVS sub, but the $499 BF deal on the outlaw is very enticing. Taking overall price/performance into account, which way would you guys go out of these two options?

Are you looking at a new PC12? If so, to keep the comparison a little closer, why not look at the LFM-1 EX for $100 more than the LFM-1Plus? If you were debating between the EX and the NSD, I'd probably go with the LFM-1 EX, unless you needed a cylinder form factor.

Both are great subs, but the LFM-1 EX has a bit more grunt to it, you can compare the PB12-NSD and the LFM-1 EX on Data-bass to see how the respective measurements stack up against each other. Measurements are not the whole story (SQ, warranty, etc), but should give you a solid objective platform to begin to debate the two more thoroughly.
post #9004 of 15594
OK Neutro, where are the pics/impressions/detailed comparisons? Its been hours already, come on. We need our fix. biggrin.gif

I find it funny that I am excited about a person I have never met, who lives in another country, getting subwoofers. Gotta love the internet.

Congrats on getting the towers home. I'm sure you'll be quite happy with them.
post #9005 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post


i just dont want to buy this sub for $700 and then be burned by finding out a better subwoofer is there for perhaps.. cheaper.. ? what about the hsu vtf3 or the outlaw? i noticed that they "scored" better in a test? but i dont like the fact that they can be tuned in so many ways, it confuses me (like how u can block one hole on the sub, all kinds of knobs and switches etc)

At this price point, my opinion, there isn't a better sub than the SVS, PB12-NSD.. So asking about the Hsu VTF3 is not going change the opinion of my evaluation. When one goes down in price point, quality of performance suffers accordingly. That's your call. That's not a hidden knock of the Hsu VTF3. Your question regarded the SVS, PB12-NSD and that's the centricity of my comments.

As to other subs, at this price point, scoring better than the SVS, PB12-NSD, please, post links that show this. If you want to know about other subs, I'll let others weigh in on the matter.
post #9006 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post


i just dont want to buy this sub for $700 and then be burned by finding out a better subwoofer is there for perhaps.. cheaper.. ? what about the hsu vtf3 or the outlaw? i noticed that they "scored" better in a test? but i dont like the fact that they can be tuned in so many ways, it confuses me (like how u can block one hole on the sub, all kinds of knobs and switches etc)

Added tuning is considered by most to be a benefit, and it is a set it and forget it option (unless you want to keep playing around with it). The Hsu and Outlaw products, as well as SVS, all have their own strengths and weaknesses. No one sub is going to beat every other sub in its price range in every metric. All three subs are well reviewed and have loyal followings, and much of the banter on the forums is from people with various biases and experience discussing subjective points. What I like about my subs doesn't equate to what others find enjoyable or desirable in theirs, etc.

If you are having trouble making your decision off of measured performance, look at other factors that can weigh in. Warranty length, customer service, trade-in/up programs, available finishes, and form factor (no real difference to sound, but do you like to look at the drive, or would you prefer the driver is as protected as possible from kids/pets/stray feet)? In the end, all three subs are good, which is why you are having so much difficulty getting feedback that sub A>sub B > sub C with some kind of universal ordinal ranking system. Not all preferences are transferable, all of the goods are viable, and each excels in their own area.
post #9007 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post


i just dont want to buy this sub for $700 and then be burned by finding out a better subwoofer is there for perhaps.. cheaper.. ? what about the hsu vtf3 or the outlaw? i noticed that they "scored" better in a test? but i dont like the fact that they can be tuned in so many ways, it confuses me (like how u can block one hole on the sub, all kinds of knobs and switches etc)

Below is what I responded to and did so to the best of my ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

can someone please answer my question? im going to place an order for a pb12 nsd today but i want to make sure i dont make a wrong/useless choice.. im upgrading from an eD a2-300 , what difference will i mostly notice?

If you want to know about other subs, you'll have to ask others as I gave you my best answer.
post #9008 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You're right, the Klipsch, RW12d isn't even close. It's an upgrade path subwoofer. I was trying to show where I place subs based on online information I've found as a form of encouragement for your intended purchase decision.
At the price point of the PB12-NSD, my opinion, there is a better performing subwoofer.

It depends on what you call performance. If you think a subwoofer is a great sub because it goes low, beyond the point of human hearing and can shake some walls, than yes it probably is a great sub in that price range.
post #9009 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

those pc13u's must be really slow movers for you guys then. i just got mine from you about two months ago and the sledge was set to -20. nothing better than buying year+ old stock at full retail.biggrin.gif

These are hard times, only the richest 1% can afford the latest PC13u's.
post #9010 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

These are hard times, only the richest 1% can afford the latest PC13u's.

That pretty much covers all who live in Silicon Valley. tongue.gif

(Recently moved from the Cambrian Park area. Lived on Foxworthy Avenue just East of Meridian.)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/24/12 at 9:44am
post #9011 of 15594
i understand, there is only one thing in my head telling me that paying 700 for a subwoofer is not right,, i dont know why.. i mean my A2-300 cost me $300 bucks, it has good punch and overall sound, what could the pb12 do differently is what im wondering and if thats worth $700...
post #9012 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

i understand, there is only one thing in my head telling me that paying 700 for a subwoofer is not right,, i dont know why.. i mean my A2-300 cost me $300 bucks, it has good punch and overall sound, what could the pb12 do differently is what im wondering and if thats worth $700...

Get lower and louder.
post #9013 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

It depends on what you call performance. If you think a subwoofer is a great sub because it goes low, beyond the point of human hearing and can shake some walls, than yes it probably is a great sub in that price range.

No, the SVS, PB12-NSD sub is a great sub because over all, in it's price point, unequivocally, it is the best in it's class. Make note that I say "best in it's class." I stated the reasons why. My comments are not enigmatic. If one wants better, they're going have to pay more. And if one wants to save money, they're going get less. At this price point, show me a better sub and show me why.
post #9014 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

No, the SVS, PB12-NSD sub is a great sub because over all, in it's price point, unequivocally, it is the best in it's class. Make note that I say "best in it's class." I stated the reasons why. My comments are not enigmatic. If one wants better, they're going have to pay more. And if one wants to save money, they're going get less. At this price point, show me a better sub and show me why.

I don't know some of the members said the PB12-NSD wasn't that articulate for music. Is that true? If you had to give it a minus would that be one?
post #9015 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

i understand, there is only one thing in my head telling me that paying 700 for a subwoofer is not right,, i dont know why.. i mean my A2-300 cost me $300 bucks, it has good punch and overall sound, what could the pb12 do differently is what im wondering and if thats worth $700...

If you look at my performance progression, it's all incremental. Each more expensive then the next. If you're not wanting to spend what it costs to get a SVS, PB12-NSD, then look at subs in the next category down the list.

All subs do the same thing, amplify low frequencies and take the load off the amplifier by putting the amplifier load onto the subwoofer amplifier. If one has $300.00 to spend, my opinion, the Klipsch, RW-12d is the class of the field. I haven't explored the $500.00 class so I can't give a definitive comment. In the $700.00 class, it's the PB12-NSD, which is the sub you asked about. The next class is a mix and for look, feel, features and overall quality. And at this class, in my opinion, the Hsu, ULS-15 rises consistently to the top.

Based on what I'm reading, I think your question is more a budget related question as opposed to a subwoofer related question and if I'm correct, I'd look to a less expensive subwoofer. I would give serious consideration to a pair of Klipsch, RW-12d subs as two subs are definitely better than one for power and for smoothing out room nulls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I don't know some of the members said the PB12-NSD wasn't that articulate for music. Is that true? If you had to give it a minus would that be one?

Assuming the purchase of a pair of these subs, at this price point, there are none. One must find out, was their room tuned to get rid of ringing and peaks? All of which will affect sound quality and the responsive nature of the sound quality. I base my opinion on empirical evidence as opposed to the subjective nature of individual, anecdotal tastes.

FWIW, working with your above, I recently ordered (and I'm still waiting for the arrival of) an Anti-Mode, 8033S II so as to help get the best out of the pair of subs I do have and as soon as I have the money, I'll make a major quantum leap to a new set of subs. lamonsasa asked about and I responded directly to his question and concerns regarding his putting in an order today for a SVS, PB12-NSD.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/24/12 at 10:08am
post #9016 of 15594
Sometimes reading a persons posting history is helpful. Auditor55 is a good example.
post #9017 of 15594
Just put an order in for the PB-12 NSD Subwoofer, thanks to alot of the info and help from people in this thread and others....Should have it by midweek and the fun begins......Probably add another one down the line.....
I have to say the customer service was excellent and helpful.
Rick
post #9018 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

These are hard times, only the richest 1% can afford the latest PC13u's.
and you are telling me this.... the one who lives in "silicone" valley. i will let everyone on here know be very cautious w/ this forum member he gets a kick out of trolling. now where's that ignore button....
post #9019 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

and you are telling me this.... the one who lives in "silicone" valley. i will let everyone on here know be very cautious w/ this forum member he gets a kick out of trolling. now where's that ignore button....
I also noticed he is mainly just comming around pouring in some negative speculations about SVS subwoofers which imho are not based on actual experience. He is allways refering to "common knowledge" not giving any proof. Same in other threads.

So ignoring may be the best way to handle him. wink.gif

I'm very happy with my 2 SVS subwoofers and the low end extension is a big improvement over all my previously owned subwoofers.
Edited by ravenous - 11/24/12 at 3:03pm
post #9020 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

and you are telling me this.... the one who lives in "silicone" valley. i will let everyone on here know be very cautious w/ this forum member he gets a kick out of trolling. now where's that ignore button....

What negative speculation. Just trying make conversation, pro and con, to generate some discussion. My comment about the Silicon Valley was in jest. You are being way too serious.

Oh BTW, I also own an SVS sub.
post #9021 of 15594
SVS pb12 owners, what should the GAIN be set to on the back of the sub?
post #9022 of 15594
Between 10-12 o'clock should be fine
post #9023 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

SVS pb12 owners, what should the GAIN be set to on the back of the sub?
NSD or Plus ?

My Plus is set to -20dB (default setting) but it depends on room size and position.

To make it right when there is no SPL meter, set it to a mid volume position and start your Audyssey measurement. Do just 1 position. The Subwoofer level should be +-3dB in the Audyssey measurement results. Turn the subwoofer gain down (on the SVS) if its more than -3dB negative and turn the subwoofer volume up (on the SVS) when the receiver is more than 3dB positive.

Repeat until you are in the +-3db range. Normaly 2 iterations will hit the spot.

When you found an adequate volume do the whole Audyssey calibration with 6-8 points around your main seating position. Depending on personal taste you can raise the level in the receiver menu 3-5db afterwards.
post #9024 of 15594
NSD, not plus. i spoke to Dough from SVS Phone Line and he told me to set the Gain knob at halfway (12 o'clock) , now from previous reading sessions on forums etc, i always thought that people recommend to set the knob at around 11am position or even 10am..

does the knob position even matter? because once i run audyssey XT32 on my receiver, its going to adjust the volume as needed.. when you say u have it at -20db, what does that mean? what positon on the knob?

also, if i find the bass too "strong" after i run the calibration and set everything up, since im in an apartment, i should just slightly lower the volume of the subwoofer in my reciever's settings right? dont touch the knob on the subwoofer right?
post #9025 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

NSD, not plus. i spoke to Dough from SVS Phone Line and he told me to set the Gain knob at halfway (12 o'clock) , now from previous reading sessions on forums etc, i always thought that people recommend to set the knob at around 11am position or even 10am..
does the knob position even matter? because once i run audyssey XT32 on my receiver, its going to adjust the volume as needed.. when you say u have it at -20db, what does that mean? what positon on the knob?
also, if i find the bass too "strong" after i run the calibration and set everything up, since im in an apartment, i should just slightly lower the volume of the subwoofer in my reciever's settings right? dont touch the knob on the subwoofer right?

On the NSD subs with the 400D Sledge amp, set the gain between 10-12 o'clock, depending on the room size (the larger the room, the higher the starting gain). And then run auto-set-up and it will set the exact subwoofer channel level to match the speaker channels. The only red flag to watch for is a 'bottomed out' (i.e., lowest setting) AVR sub channel level (e.g., -12 on a scale of -12 to +12), which would indicate the subwoofer gain was set too high. In this situation, drop the gain about '1 hour' and re-run auto-set-up and the AVR sub channel level will come off the bottom of the control range and give you a true level match.

With XT32, during calibration it should prompt you to adjust the gain on the subwoofer until you hit 75 dB, and then it will complete the calibration routine. In cases like that, the AVR sub channel level usually ends-up at/near 0 dB (again typically on a scale of -12 to +12).

After calibration, you should have some upward/downward adjustability in the AVR sub channel level, and that is what you should adjust to make small level changes to the subwoofer to suit the source material or listening environment.
post #9026 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

On the NSD subs with the 400D Sledge amp, set the gain between 10-12 o'clock, depending on the room size (the larger the room, the higher the starting gain). And then run auto-set-up and it will set the exact subwoofer channel level to match the speaker channels. The only red flag to watch for is a 'bottomed out' (i.e., lowest setting) AVR sub channel level (e.g., -12 on a scale of -12 to +12), which would indicate the subwoofer gain was set too high. In this situation, drop the gain about '1 hour' and re-run auto-set-up and the AVR sub channel level will come off the bottom of the control range and give you a true level match.
With XT32, during calibration it should prompt you to adjust the gain on the subwoofer until you hit 75 dB, and then it will complete the calibration routine. In cases like that, the AVR sub channel level usually ends-up at/near 0 dB (again typically on a scale of -12 to +12).
After calibration, you should have some upward/downward adjustability in the AVR sub channel level, and that is what you should adjust to make small level changes to the subwoofer to suit the source material or listening environment.

thanks man, i forget about that, ur right, xt32 does promot to change the knob on the sub at the begining of the calibration process until it reads 75db.
post #9027 of 15594
So this is a summary of the settings for the back of the bp12 nsd:

Crossover = all the way to the right on Disabled

Crossover knob = 120hz

Auto/On switch = AUTO

Phase = 0

Gain = between 10-12 (depending on how audyssey xt32 tells me to adjust it to achieve 75db)

Power = On


and i plug the subwoofer cable in the INPUT IN , does it matter left or right?
post #9028 of 15594
Nope either one is fine
post #9029 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

So this is a summary of the settings for the back of the bp12 nsd:
Crossover = all the way to the right on Disabled
Crossover knob = 120hz
Auto/On switch = AUTO
Phase = 0
Gain = between 10-12 (depending on how audyssey xt32 tells me to adjust it to achieve 75db)
Power = On
and i plug the subwoofer cable in the INPUT IN , does it matter left or right?

All correct. Let us know how the calibration routine goes. Many users feel the subwoofer channel level is a bit tepid at the baseline Audyssey setting. Personally I think the baseline Audyssey setting is fine, but if you feel the need to bump-up the AVR sub channel level, then do it in small increments and assess for a while. A 3 dB increase in sub channel level is a 42% increase in sound pressure level, so it's very noticeable.

After running set-up, check all of your speaker/subwoofer bass management settings in the AVR. All of the speaker channels should be bass managed with a speaker/sub crossover appropriate for their respective bass extension and dynamic output capabilities. The subwoofer mode should be set to LFE and the LPF for LFE should be set to 120 Hz.
post #9030 of 15594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

All correct. Let us know how the calibration routine goes. Many users feel the subwoofer channel level is a bit tepid at the baseline Audyssey setting. Personally I think the baseline Audyssey setting is fine, but if you feel the need to bump-up the AVR sub channel level, then do it in small increments and assess for a while. A 3 dB increase in sub channel level is a 42% increase in sound pressure level, so it's very noticeable.
After running set-up, check all of your speaker/subwoofer bass management settings in the AVR. All of the speaker channels should be bass managed with a speaker/sub crossover appropriate for their respective bass extension and dynamic output capabilities. The subwoofer mode should be set to LFE and the LPF for LFE should be set to 120 Hz.

Thanks, thats how i have it set up with my current sub, the frequency for the speakers is 60hz for the fronts and center, for the surrounds its 80hz and of the LFE is 120hz,

i dont know if u guys have a receiver with DYNAMIC EQ, but Dynamic EQ has a setting called REFERENCE LEVEL OFFSet, now we all know movies have a reference level at 0, but no one knows what games are mixed in and what cable tv is mixed, so the offset can be set to 0, 5,10 or 15.. u guys think that the game and cable tv sources should also be set at reference level 0 and just forget about it?
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