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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 323

post #9661 of 15830
ok so I have finally had it with my pb12 and the ongoing Grill issue. I must say SVS has done all they can to try to remedy the problem, but it has not worked. Last night while watching finding nemo...during the whale scene it fell off and almost hit my 19 month old son....needless to say I am not happy.

I have been a long time loyal supporter of SVS products but can no longer be there for support, it is just a BAD design.

I will still be around, but I am going with a different company.
post #9662 of 15830
Honestly, I eh PC13-Ultra past the PB12-Plus and the differences are tiny, almost 2 dB over the entire range.
Say ultra series is a small but measurable improvement but audible. (At no time eh missed the Ultra, not even when I run the plus close to their limits, which by the way, in my room 10 meters is difficult to get to the boundary, before half house would throw up dust)

Add a second PB12-Plus, so subs will coincide both in response and maybe get 3-6 db if conditions are ideal.

Could be combined and Ultra Plus, even in very strong operating near the limits, the Plus could save face in front of the Ultra. Taking the SUB EQ HT greatly help both models come into phase and would be properly aligned.
post #9663 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

With a single Ultra, well, you run the risk of wanting duals anyway and ending up like CR with dual Ultras biggrin.gif

Hey, did I hear my name?

tongue.gif

Only thing that I can add to Neutro's advice is: if you go with just "one" Ultra, then sooner or later you will keep hearing that is best to run dual subs, and the upgraditis virus will be eating you alive. Down the road you will by buying the second Ultra. That happened to someone that I know...........actually, I saw that person early this morning at the mirror........wink.gif

From another forum that I visit:


Edited by cr136124 - 1/14/13 at 10:18am
post #9664 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

ok so I have finally had it with my pb12 and the ongoing Grill issue. I must say SVS has done all they can to try to remedy the problem, but it has not worked. Last night while watching finding nemo...during the whale scene it fell off and almost hit my 19 month old son....needless to say I am not happy.

I have been a long time loyal supporter of SVS products but can no longer be there for support, it is just a BAD design.

I will still be around, but I am going with a different company.

Hey Brian, nice to hear that your son is OK. Sorry at the same time your experience with the sub is not what you expected to be. Any chance you can touch base with SVS to replace the whole sub?

Hopefully by now, they should have that problem fixed and you can receive a unit from a new production batch.
post #9665 of 15830
Hey Cr, They have sent me 3 replacements (complete subs)...none to which this has changed....I was tolerant of it before but now it has gotten real. thanks he is ok...just scared the hell out of him and me alike smile.gif It wasnt even playing at insane levels either...I just sent an email to both Doug and Ed over at svs. unfortunately its time to move on.
post #9666 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Hey Cr, They have sent me 3 replacements (complete subs)...none to which this has changed....I was tolerant of it before but now it has gotten real. thanks he is ok...just scared the hell out of him and me alike smile.gif It wasnt even playing at insane levels either...I just sent an email to both Doug and Ed over at svs. unfortunately its time to move on.

Well, I guess that was the "third" strike!

So, may I ask you what brand are you contemplating?
post #9667 of 15830
looking at the PSA XV15
post #9668 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

looking at the PSA XV15

Well, there is still a SVS DNA on those subs...........so, I'll forgive you.........biggrin.gif
post #9669 of 15830
Exactly!
post #9670 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I will still be around, but I am going with a different company.

That's really sad as the PB12-NSD had great performances and the grille is awesome. When it stays on of course. I'm really curious about what will be its replacement and I hope you'll contemplate posting a comparison here when you get it. So your budget is still about $800? You might want to take a look at the Epik Empire of course, which is close to the XV15 in design and price, and also very reputed. If you can push it to $1000 the Rhytmik FV12 looks great. You can also look at the Hsu VTF-3 for $800.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

Taking the SUB EQ HT greatly help both models come into phase and would be properly aligned.

If I ever change my AVR, having Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT would be my goal. However those AVRs are very expensive. The Onkyo TX-NR818 is the cheapest I know that has XT32 but it does *not* have SubEQ HT. Typically people suggest the Denon AVR-4311CI but it's getting harder to find, and not much cheaper than before in Canada, while its replacement, the AVR-4520CI, is like $2.5k. At first sight the least expensive AVR that has both XT32 and SubEQ HT is the Onkyo TX-NR1010... Any other worth considering?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Hey, did I hear my name?
rolleyes.gif
Quote:
From another forum that I visit:

That's not healthy. I mean... When you're obsessed to the point of stacking rows of Ultras, maybe you should just build a wall and make an infinite baffle sub with a line array of 18" drivers. biggrin.gif
post #9671 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

That's really sad as the PB12-NSD had great performances and the grille is awesome. When it stays on of course. I'm really curious about what will be its replacement and I hope you'll contemplate posting a comparison here when you get it. So your budget is still about $800? You might want to take a look at the Epik Empire of course, which is close to the XV15 in design and price, and also very reputed. If you can push it to $1000 the Rhytmik FV12 looks great. You can also look at the Hsu VTF-3 for $800.

Yeah I am a bit sad. But it could be to the better if the Psa is better and more importantly better for my son.

I will definitely come back with a comparison. My budget stayed at 800 and I wanted the down firing to help keep my sons trucks and trains out of it hahah. He loved dumping them in that huge grill opening on the pb12.

But yes I loved the svs and loved the original ones. So Psa is the next logical choice. Or as CR put it. Has svs DNA in it.
post #9672 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

My budget stayed at 800 and I wanted the down firing to help keep my sons trucks and trains out of it hahah. He loved dumping them in that huge grill opening on the pb12.

Ha ha in that case, well, the driver is probably safe. But you forgot about the port hole in the back.... You might want to keep that a secret biggrin.gif Or you could look at a sealed sub. Seriously the Epik Empire is supposed to be one of the best performers at that price point...
post #9673 of 15830
The port will not be accessible to him so we are good there. Never thought of epic. Was it those or ryhymic that had heat issues?
post #9674 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

If I ever change my AVR, having Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and SubEQ HT would be my goal. However those AVRs are very expensive. The Onkyo TX-NR818 is the cheapest I know that has XT32 but it does *not* have SubEQ HT. Typically people suggest the Denon AVR-4311CI but it's getting harder to find, and not much cheaper than before in Canada, while its replacement, the AVR-4520CI, is like $2.5k. At first sight the least expensive AVR that has both XT32 and SubEQ HT is the Onkyo TX-NR1010... Any other worth considering?

By the time the Onkyo AVR 1010 is the only accessible with the technology.

I'll wait for the new Onkyo AVR of this year and probably open an offer of 1010 (I will use to replace my big 809 AVR)

Do you know of any Yamaha model incorporating something similar to Aduyssey solution?
post #9675 of 15830
Never had a prob with my grill on the PB12 NSD. I leave the grill off on my SB12 NSD so i can't make a comment on that.
post #9676 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

Never had a prob with my grill on the PB12 NSD. I leave the grill off on my SB12 NSD so i can't make a comment on that.

I wish. But there have been at least two others who have posted here with grill issues
post #9677 of 15830
Yeah it seems that Brian was victim of a bad manufacturing run -- either malformed grilles or holes. I had no problem with my SB12 but a few people mentioned hard-to-mount grilles last fall. Nothing since but if the grille is mandatory and it falls randomly, it's not acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

The port will not be accessible to him so we are good there. Never thought of epic. Was it those or ryhymic that had heat issues?

I don't remember -- or Hsu's ? Maybe Epic. The Empire seems to be a favorite on the subwoofer-by-price list thread at $800 but then again they're currently out of stock and not many people have heard PSA subs yet. Also note that the Empire weights 140 lbs biggrin.gif In comparison, the XV15 is a light-weight at 92 lbs tongue.gif I don't know how it would have cost me to get the Epiks in Canada but I must say I was tempted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

By the time the Onkyo AVR 1010 is the only accessible with the technology.

I'll wait for the new Onkyo AVR of this year and probably open an offer of 1010 (I will use to replace my big 809 AVR)

Do you know of any Yamaha model incorporating something similar to Aduyssey solution?

I'll do a price watch on the Onkyo 1010 but it's still a large expense considering I have a functioning AVR and a working EQ solution! On Audyssey's web site you can look for products with specific technologies; SubEQ HT is only found in Denon, Onkyo and Integra (which are really Onkyo) top-end AVRs it seems. Same thing with MultEQ XT32. Marantz and NAD also make receivers with MultEQ.

Yamaha and Pioneer have their own calibration technologies. Yamaha's is calle YPAO I think; never tried it and can't comment. Pionneer's is called MCACC. My Pio has "Advanced MCACC", which I think is the most advanced, and it's simply a 6-band (fixed) per-channel equalizer. The lowest band is 63 Hz and the subwoofer output is not EQed at all. There are also PEQs that are used to counter reverberations but again not for the sub channel. Spec-wise, Audyssey seems to be miles ahead. Yet it's not as flexible as a custom EQ solution as you cannot tweak the results. For example I could not introduce my house curve with Audyssey. I guess one could run both Audyssey and a custom EQ on top; not sure if this is advisable though.
post #9678 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'll do a price watch on the Onkyo 1010 but it's still a large expense considering I have a functioning AVR and a working EQ solution! On Audyssey's web site you can look for products with specific technologies; SubEQ HT is only found in Denon, Onkyo and Integra (which are really Onkyo) top-end AVRs it seems. Same thing with MultEQ XT32. Marantz and NAD also make receivers with MultEQ.

Yamaha and Pioneer have their own calibration technologies. Yamaha's is calle YPAO I think; never tried it and can't comment. Pionneer's is called MCACC. My Pio has "Advanced MCACC", which I think is the most advanced, and it's simply a 6-band (fixed) per-channel equalizer. The lowest band is 63 Hz and the subwoofer output is not EQed at all. There are also PEQs that are used to counter reverberations but again not for the sub channel. Spec-wise, Audyssey seems to be miles ahead. Yet it's not as flexible as a custom EQ solution as you cannot tweak the results. For example I could not introduce my house curve with Audyssey. I guess one could run both Audyssey and a custom EQ on top; not sure if this is advisable though.

Personally "Integra" seems like a joke. They want to prove that it is the high-end Onkyo, when actually using the same components, eye with these things!

Only we have the solutions in Denon (Not my cup of tea), Integra (Want get bent at the expense of price) and Onkyo (I think the best and fairest in performance, quality and price).

Yamaha YPAO with RSC, the band can subwoofer EQ with capabilities similar to Audyssey XT and XT32 (What is not, is if you have a tool similar to Sub EQ HT). We will have to see opening a new thread on this and see what we say users and industry professionals in Yamaha.

Pioneer, I do not like anything at all. Calibrate equipment to people with these AVR and no subwoofer EQ band, I look hideous. Or put a solution or Pioneer external EQ is going to cause more problems than solve the same problems.
Pioneer never going to be on my list of AVR, have a lot to improve things to attract my eye on them.
post #9679 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

The port will not be accessible to him so we are good there. Never thought of epic. Was it those or ryhymic that had heat issues?

There was one stated case of heat on the Rythmik FV15HP, but that was during a GTG when they were literally beating the hell out of the sub with a 5hz test one. As far as I know with standard use you would not see this problem. I have had my FV15HP for about a month now and have not had any issues with it at all.

Now apparently folks in the Epik thread are experiencing amp failures and have had a tough time getting a hold of Epik in the past month.
post #9680 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

There was one stated case of heat on the Rythmik FV15HP, but that was during a GTG when they were literally beating the hell out of the sub with a 5hz test one. As far as I know with standard use you would not see this problem. I have had my FV15HP for about a month now and have not had any issues with it at all.

Now apparently folks in the Epik thread are experiencing amp failures and have had a tough time getting a hold of Epik in the past month.

The Rythmik FV15HP looks real good. If I had been living in the US, I would have been really tempted to go with that instead of the Plus. Shipping and duty combined with warranty issues prevented that though. Also I don't trust fabric grilles with my kid biggrin.gif

Kind of weird that Epik are suddently hard to reach *and* all their products are sold out. It would be sad if they went belly up, the Empire is supposed to be an awesome sub. The specs are impressive too with a 600W amp and dual opposed 15-in drivers. I think the $800 tag doesn't include shipping on the Epik though, and shipping sure won't be cheap on a 140 lbs beast. But considering the above PowerSound may be a better option.
post #9681 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

The Rythmik FV15HP looks real good. If I had been living in the US, I would have been really tempted to go with that instead of the Plus.

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


tongue.gif
post #9682 of 15830
Cr. don't hate me now. We still have the emotiva's and custom cables to bond over smile.gif

Plus you still have to guide me through my oppo purchase. Panamax purchase. Panny PJ purchase and custom Console build hahahah hahahah
post #9683 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Cr. don't hate me now. We still have the emotiva's and custom cables to bond over smile.gif

Plus you still have to guide me through my oppo purchase. Panamax purchase. Panny PJ purchase and custom Console build hahahah hahahah

LOL!

You better keep that credit card on hand then.......we are going to do some serious shopping.......wink.gif
post #9684 of 15830
Hello,

I have a room that's 21'x12.5'x9. I have BA VS line with 2, 224s, 4, 240 and a 5.25"CC with PB12NSD. The 260s in the picture have been swapped with the 224 for more room. I was thinking of adding a second PB 12 NSD, but I don't know if it's really needed. The room shake during the Underworld Awakening scene in the new coven with the giant Werewolf first appearance. Will I really gain that much with a second sub?

Thanks,



post #9685 of 15830
Hmmmm...... So it might not be a good idea to get a PB12-NDS to pair with my Plus even tho I have XT32. Oh well, I still have 8 months to think about it, no rush. tongue.gif
post #9686 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tongue.gif

I know you're joking as indicated by that helpful emoticon but I want to add that the FV15HP seems like it's a marvelous sub. Including shipping in the US mainland, it's about the cost of a PB12-Plus. Wattage is below the Plus, driver size is above, but its sensitivity makes it produce output that is more comparable to an Ultra than a Plus according to data-bass.com. The Ultra has the edge over the FV15HP only in a narrow band around 20 Hz, and only a tiny, tiny edge, whereas the Rhythmik has more output than the Ultra in the mid and upper-bass. It's also a solid performer according to the subwoofer threads guys who organize listening sessions. A caveat: piano black and silver drivers are options and would raise the price close to that of an Ultra. In Canada, shipping alone is $355 per sub so with duals I would have ended up paying upwards of $1k for shipping and duty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Will I really gain that much with a second sub?
In terms of output, you'll gain somewhere between 3 and 6 dB SPL depending on where you place the dual subs and how your room is configured. To gain 6 dB you'd likely have to co-locale (aka stack) the subs, which would defeat the second purpose of having duals. This second purpose is to get a smoother frequency response and a better bass uniformity across the room.

If you don't run your single NSD to its limits yet at the volume you normally watch movies, then the added output will simply be headroom just in case, which certainly is a nice to have but not critical. If you're thinking of upgrading anyway, this might be an interesting path, especially if you have multiple listening positions. It might be possible to have better bass across multiples positions with two subs. A caveat is that setting up dual subs is, in my experience, a tad more complicated than a single one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Hmmmm...... So it might not be a good idea to get a PB12-NDS to pair with my Plus even tho I have XT32. Oh well, I still have 8 months to think about it, no rush. tongue.gif

It's not illegal nor forbidden biggrin.gif Lots of people run duals subs with different models and they don't seem to complain. But the official word seems to be that it's better with two of the same.
post #9687 of 15830
Neutro, some have been saying that there is no duty when shipping a rythmik sub to canada as it is assembled in and shipped from the USA. You should order one and let me know if you pay duty or not. wink.gif Honestly the rythmik would be a no brainer for me but the shipping cost really is pretty insane imo ($355). I'm basically in 'pick a subwoofer paralysis' mode between the SVS PB13U (cheapest, best looking, but least output), Rythmik FV15HP (shipping rape + warranty hassles), and the Funk 18.0C (beautiful box, ugly driver, zero reviews anywhere).
post #9688 of 15830
Question for the elders...

In my HT, I've got a professionally calibrated Panasonic 65VT30, and recently I stepped up to an absolutely phenomenal 5.0 setup of Aperion Verus speakers. Audyssey MultiEQ XT (with Dynamic Volume set to Light) does fantastic things with them.

Enter the SVS. Last week, I added an PB12-NSD to them, re-ran Audyssey a few times until the sub measured -0.5dB (which I took to be within the +/- 3.0dB target), set the speakers to Small, set crossovers at 80Hz (up from the recommended 40), and the impact was in some ways subtle, but in other ways was profound. LFE were richer and fuller. I did not do a sub crawl or anything, because I have little choice about where it's located. And I have no idea if I'm dealing with voids (and if so, dialing the sound up would simply make up for it, to some sloppy estimated degree) or not.

I tossed on an episode of Band of Brothers and after a little bit, wanted to increase the impact of the LFE. Simply turning up the volume of the whole system did some of that. But at some point, I didn't want voices to be any louder, but I felt like I wanted more visceral impact to the low-end. So I went into my Denon and increased the subwoofer gain up from -0.5 to +2.5, a full 3dB higher -- and suddenly the soundtrack came alive. Mortar had real impact, explosions had more thump, and so forth.

But here's my problem: I'm left with the guilty, nagging feeling that I'm mis-representing the original material. I *like* the added thump, that's why I bought a sub like this in the first place, but I don't want to distort the original content too much. "Do what sounds good!" is what leads people to tweak audio system values or their TV video settings into a horrible mess, based on their expectations of what looks or sounds good. Down that road lies subjectivity and madness. smile.gif ...But the more potent LFE is just so seductive. Dammit.

I'm really torn. Am I doomed to having a guilty pleasure which mis-represents the original material (I assume)?
post #9689 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


Kind of weird that Epik are suddently hard to reach *and* all their products are sold out. It would be sad if they went belly up, the Empire is supposed to be an awesome sub. The specs are impressive too with a 600W amp and dual opposed 15-in drivers. I think the $800 tag doesn't include shipping on the Epik though, and shipping sure won't be cheap on a 140 lbs beast.

It's not the first time Chad has gone dark, nor is it the first time he has had no stock of any lines. If I remember correctly, he had a similar MP before the 18" driver series and then again before the Empire came out. His products are generally well reviewed on the forums and the owners are happy, but communication has been an ongoing issue. Most of the time he has been more receptive to phone calls than emails, but lately that seems to be having issues as well. In the end, Epik is a small shop with a very small front office staff. Hopefully he is just busy developing new products and nothing bad is happening.
post #9690 of 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Question for the elders...

In my HT, I've got a professionally calibrated Panasonic 65VT30, and recently I stepped up to an absolutely phenomenal 5.0 setup of Aperion Verus speakers. Audyssey MultiEQ XT (with Dynamic Volume set to Light) does fantastic things with them.

Enter the SVS. Last week, I added an PB12-NSD to them, re-ran Audyssey a few times until the sub measured -0.5dB (which I took to be within the +/- 3.0dB target), set the speakers to Small, set crossovers at 80Hz (up from the recommended 40), and the impact was in some ways subtle, but in other ways was profound. LFE were richer and fuller. I did not do a sub crawl or anything, because I have little choice about where it's located. And I have no idea if I'm dealing with voids (and if so, dialing the sound up would simply make up for it, to some sloppy estimated degree) or not.

I tossed on an episode of Band of Brothers and after a little bit, wanted to increase the impact of the LFE. Simply turning up the volume of the whole system did some of that. But at some point, I didn't want voices to be any louder, but I felt like I wanted more visceral impact to the low-end. So I went into my Denon and increased the subwoofer gain up from -0.5 to +2.5, a full 3dB higher -- and suddenly the soundtrack came alive. Mortar had real impact, explosions had more thump, and so forth.

But here's my problem: I'm left with the guilty, nagging feeling that I'm mis-representing the original material. I *like* the added thump, that's why I bought a sub like this in the first place, but I don't want to distort the original content too much. "Do what sounds good!" is what leads people to tweak audio system values or their TV video settings into a horrible mess, based on their expectations of what looks or sounds good. Down that road lies subjectivity and madness. smile.gif ...But the more potent LFE is just so seductive. Dammit.

I'm really torn. Am I doomed to having a guilty pleasure which mis-represents the original material (I assume)?

I feel old sometimes, so maybe I am qualified to respond. Booms and bass drops are fun, but will eventually get to be common place for you. When they do, you may want to lower the bass output a touch, as bass can obscure other elements of the mix, and you may desire a more balanced mix. In the interim, you just bought a new toy, enjoy it. If you decide to to lower the settings, it only takes a few button pushes. If you decide to keep the bass a little hot (and +3db is only a little hot on these boards), that's fine too.

Congrats on the new sub.
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