Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 327

Congratulations!! I remember unboxing my black oak PB12-Plus last year and being impressed by everything about it....the size, the grille, the quality of the driver, cabinet and amp and of course the performance. You are in for a treat!

It *would* fit in a Honda, an Odyssey for example

Well congrats, you got one hell of a sub.

Lecter, you keep repeating that your Plus is so much like your Ultra, and now this... Are you sure it's a Plus? Did you measure the driver? Is it 13.5" by any chance? Or maybe you got a Plus with a 1000W Sledge amp?

It should not be that different from any other sub, apart from the fact that you should get help moving that around your living room.

SVS recommends that the gain on the sub itself should be set as high as possible, preferably to the max (0 dB) on digital Sledge amps. However, your Pioneer receiver may have trouble attenuating the sub out enough -- on my Pio I can only go as low as -12 dB. If your sub level can't go lower than -12 dB you might want to set your sub's gain to, say, -15 dB (this will depend on your room size). Then let your Pioneer's calibration routine do its job and find the best level. It will tell you if the sub level is still to high.

Note that by default, full Advanced MCACC on your Pioneer will probably set your mains as Large by default. Revert that to Small in the manual speaker setup menu so that all bass is diverted to the sub if it's the case. You should try first with a 80 Hz crossover frequency.

After all is done, feel free to set your sub trim level a bit hotter either on your AVR or on the sub itself. Most receiver are kind of bass shy in my experience.

***

I for one managed to watch two other movies in as many days. Yesterday, Cabin in the Woods, which was quite funny and well done, although I feel that there could have been more surprises, I had the plot all figured out quite early. Honest LFE in that one. Today was Hot Fuzz I just like that kind of humor, I giggled all the way through the movie. I loved the insane bass that is actually used in a sarcastic manner. I saw people walking outside and trying to peer inside to see what was happening -- I was all like "he just closed his locker, I had no idea that would be so loud". Anyway, I had a great time, managed to watch 4 movies this week, I'm almost satiated

LOL ... This is what I could measure two meters in the open with my PB12-Plus DSP:

20hz 108 db
25hz 111 db
31hz 113 db
40hz 115 db
50hz 115 db
63hz 115 db

Given that the PC13-Ultra has an enclosure PB13 younger than his brother, this will subtract 1.5 dB for the PC13, compared with the PB13. Thus practically almost not notice differences.
PB12-Plus desepeño this about the Ultra. Most of what people think. Then there is the size of the room, here in Europe are between 10m2 and 18m2 (Or at least in Spain), in standard size rooms. Which both Irian Ultra Plus as practically as headroom with some advantage to the ultra reference level.

As for the parametric EQ my PB12-Plus has two parametric equalizers ... Funny but true.
Maybe you want to record a video and show it?

Man this PB1000 is awesome!

And yet, some stupid idiot at the back of my head keeps whispering "dude for £270 more you could have gotten the PB12-NSD." I keep trying to remind him that the PB1000 barely fits in the bedroom as it is!

I've noticed that many push agendas when responding to threads...be it what they own or what they see as the flavor of the month from other posts

Ha Ha..... We must know the same idiot. I'm auditioning the PB12-NSD right now and the same idiot is telling me about the PB-12 Plus!

Fantastic. I very nearly bought it. The combination of size and (perceived) quality and (on paper) performance was excellent. I did indeed end up with the PB12-NSD, but I use so little of its volume potential in my 1550 sqft room that I sometimes wonder if the PB1000 would have been a better buy for me!

Sensitivity level--Question to anybody. I have two PC12-NSD's. I bought them a few months apart. They both sound great and I feel I made a good choice in this model. Here's my question. I have the second one being fed from the output of the first one in the chain (if this makes any difference). I've noticed that the older of the two (the first one in line being fed directly from the AVR) has a lower sensitivity level (to turn on from auto-standby) than the second one. In other words-it takes a slightly higher signal level to fire the first one vs. the second one. Both speakers sound the same and work great. It's just that sometimes, I've noticed the first speaker hasn't fired up whereas the second one has turned on. Once the first speaker does fire up (when a slightly higher level signal hits it) it works just like the second one. The gain levels on both speakers are the same-no difference. Is there such a thing as a "sensitivity" setting somewhere that could be accessed? I rather doubt it. But maybe someone reading this might have a suggestion. Thanks for taking the time to read this and any reply.

I have dual PC12-Plus connected through a splitter, and using the auto-on feature they do not turn on at the exact same moment either. I never thought it was a big deal and I don't think the amp gain has anything to do with auto on sensitivity. I guess the threshold on each amp could be slightly different or signal strength not exactly the same due to using two different wires or the splitter not being perfectly 50-50.

That idiot is everywhere....
Don't even have my sub yet, PC12-PLUS (delivery Monday) and I keep hearing PC13-Ultra, PC13-Ultra, PC13-Ultra......LOL

Hey guys I'm thinking a out becoming a SVS owner and I thought I would consult the experts on the topic!

I thought I should give you a run down on the room and the gear in it.

So I have been fortunate enough to build my current home and convince my wife to turn our second living area into a home theatre room, the room measures 5m x 3.98m x 2.59m (LxWxH) and is a sealed space

During the build process we ran speaker cable and network cable to various points in the room, we upgraded the insulation in the walls with Sound deadening and a few ducts were run down the wall behind the tv to ensure cables could be run if we decided to get a projector in the future. The room has double glass door(Yes a bad choice I know, however it was a condition of converting the room). There is a narrow window that runs along the back wall opposite the tv which is 1.8m long and about 550cm tall which sits up the top of the wall.
The second window in the room is a half hight window 1.8m x 1.34m, both of these windows are covered in a block out roman blind as well as a black out roller that sits inside the window frame to ensure light doesn't enter. There is also a block out roller on each of the glass doors to reduce the light as much as possible, the room is almost pitch black during the day.


The Gear
I'm a bit of a gamer and love my movies so I currently have a PS3 which doubles as the Blu-ray player, XBOX, Wii and a SNES connected to the amp, I also have an Apple TV connected for a lot of the movies and TV shows we watch. I know this isn't the most source material but for the epic action movies I have these on BR.

Yamaha RX-V3900 AVR
I figured it was worth investing in a decent AVR which would allow me to grow into its capabilities such as multiple zones. I also took the liberty to run speaker wire into the alfresco ceiling so that we could pipe music out side if we desired (have not purchased these speakers as yet (any advice?)

Panasonic VIErA 58" Full HD Neo Plasma http://www.panasonic.com.au/Products+Archive/VIErA+televisions/Plasma+TVs/TH-P58S20A/Overview

I picked this TV up for about half of the listed retail price last year, its been fantastic. I have noticed that it is a little grainy up close to the screen but I imagine this is because there are giant pixels making up the 1920x1080 image?

One thing I had not had up until a couple of weeks ago was a set of speakers. We were using some old mini HiFi speakers to fill the space but I was able to pick up for a couple hundred bucks as a temporary solution.

Jamo S 426 HSC 3 5.0
The one thing it is missing is a sub, the amp has calibrated for this fact using the Mic and the YPAO system however nothing but a decent sub can produce beautiful bass that is lacking.


So I have been looking at the SVS range and I'm trying to decide between the options below $1k

The goal is to not only hear but feel the base in the big action scenes.

Now given the long wave lengths of subs I'm a little concerned of purchasing a monster sub and really only hearing / feeling it in the bedroom up the opposite end of the house or up the street! Having said that if I purchase too small a sub I don't want to regret it.. I'm looking for the sweet spot!

I was thinking either the SB12-NSD or the PB12-NSD. I also saw there are newer 10" subs in this range.

I demoed a REL T5 and was completely underwhelmed so I know 8" is just to small!

Would love some opinions based on what you think would fill my space.

Cheers ( and sorry for the life story!)

Well unless your primary HT setup is in that bedroom, I'm assuming this is for music or a secondary setup... if it barely fits, then don't worry, you got plenty of bass in that bedroom already, and as said earlier, those 270 pounds can surely buy you other very nice toys.

We all know him quite well here. I ended up with dual PC12-Pluses after a year with an SB12. It's hard convey whether such an upgrade is worth it or not in a particular circumstance. In my case I already had lots of room gain and I feel the SB12 was amazing. Of *course*, the dual Pluses trounced it in output and extension, but I feel the SB12 provided me about 90% of what I experience with the dual Pluses -- particularly with music. That being said, the missing 10% is one of the very fun part of HomeTheater experience. I thought the SB12 was room-shaking... No. It makes it vibrate. Not the same thing

Congrats to the new cyclinder owner. I think the upgrade to the Ultra is a bit hard to justify if you felt the Plus was enough for your needs. I keep hearing it will output a bit more (around 3 dB all around); some say it has a distinctive sound; but it's basically the same design as the Plus. Save your money and come to the dark side instead... Dual Pluses will have even more output than a single Ultra

Note that I'm not saying Ultra owners should have gotten Pluses. Just that if you feel you'll have enough headroom with a Plus, the value of the upgrade to the Plus will mainly be additional headroom, unless I'm mistaken. Some may very well need the added output to begin with. It all depends on our rooms and listening habits. Of course listening habits tend to change when upgrading subs, and that might be part of the problemd


Nice setup there V64. If you're already set with SVS and your budget is fixed at $1000 tops, then the equation is pretty easy to solve. Your options are the new PB-1000 and SB-1000, or the PB12-NSD, PC12-NSD and SB12-NSD. The NSD series add about 3 dB output to the -1000 series below 40 Hz. And the ported (PB and PC) subs add about 6 dB SPL to the sealed subs (SB) below 40 Hz. The advantages of the SB are mainly the small size, and slower roll-off at low frequencies; and in the case of the SB12-NSD, the optional piano black finish. So barring any aesthetical or size considerations, your budget will easily accomodate the PB12-NSD at $800 delivered, so that is my initial recommendation.

If you can extend your budget up to $1.2k and would consider a cylinder, then the PC12-Plus can be an interesting option, but all other SVS subs are much above $1k.

One thread participant (Brian) recently switched from the PB12-NSD to one of SVS's competitor (PowerSoundAudio XV15) for the same price and it seems it offers even a bigger bang for the buck, by the way.

I wish I had space for a second sub. My hope is to get the SVS to play well with the subs that are built into my DefTech towers.

Correct. It is a major step up from the pb12. But honestly you can't go too far wrong by choosing svs. The xv15 is slightly bigger than the pb12. It is quite a bit taller. And uses a 15" driver. I would also say the xv15 is more musical. The xv is more in line with the pb12+

Either way you are in for a treat

On an svs CS note. I am going further down the road of being dissatisfied with it. They have yet to issue me a refund They said they can't do it through PayPal since they partially refunded the original purchase because it was a upgrade. They said the would send a check. This was a week ago and nothing. So I emailed jack and Gerry emailed me back saying he would ask the accounting department. Stil have yet to hear back from him on the. This is quite frustrating. I would have been really pissed if I had to wait for the refund before buying a new sub. They have had the returned sub of well over a week now.

They do not return emails the way they used to that s for sure. And psb is way ahead of them right now in the communication department.
Just a little heads up on that front

Correct. It is a major step up from the pb12. But honestly you can't go too far wrong by choosing svs. The xv15 is slightly bigger than the pb12. It is quite a bit taller. And uses a 15" driver. I would also say the xv15 is more musical. The xv is more in line with the pb12+

Either way you are in for a treat

On an svs CS note. I am going further down the road of being dissatisfied with it. They have yet to issue me a refund They said they can't do it through PayPal since they partially refunded the original purchase because it was a upgrade. They said the would send a check. This was a week ago and nothing. So I emailed jack and Gerry emailed me back saying he would ask the accounting department. Stil have yet to hear back from him on that . This is quite frustrating. I would have been really pissed if I had to wait for the refund before buying a new sub. They have had the returned sub of well over a week now.

They do not return emails the way they used to that s for sure. And psa is way ahead of them right now in the communication department.
Just a little heads up on that front
Edited by Brian Fineberg - 1/27/13 at 9:45am

You'll need a room analyzing program to do that. Today I'm playing with subwoofer limit potentiometers to see how small changes affect nulls. Today, by simply cutting back on the frequency cutoff of one subwoofer, I reduce the depth of a 16dB null by a full 8B. The point, without a room analyzer, I wouldn't be able to see how minor changes, change the complex interaction of a room's acoustics with multiple subwoofer output.

(And in the process, yes, I'm sure I'm violating every known acoustically based sonic law known to man. )

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/27/13 at 9:51am

I've downloaded and installed REW, now I'm waiting on cables and a external sound card. Hopefully it will all be here before next weekend so I can start on it...

Forgive me. Now that you've repeated yourself, I remember, you've already posted this information. Without notes to remind me, I lose track of comments.

Once you get the measuring gear in, up and running, you'll be quite amazed how little changes affect sonic quality in such a huge way. In a few minutes, I'll be relocating one of our subs to the other side of a large easy chair, measure and see what minute changes take place. It's very gratifying to be able to physically see in realtime, the changes as they take place.

A few minutes have gone by since posting the above, the movement of the subwoofer has been effected and the null, for all intents and purposes, is gone. The point, with benefit of the analyzing program, in realtime, one is able to see minor changes affecting how one's subs will play and get along with each other.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/27/13 at 10:49am

Anyone here have the receiver Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver with the PB-12 Plus (Sledge STA-800D amplifier)?

After using the auto calibration MCACC, there seem to be too much bass and the bass is overpowering the 5 speakers. I am losing detail of the movie soundtrack because all I can hear is BASS.

Before I did the auto MCACC calibration of the SC-07, I adjusted the Volume on the PB-12 Plus at -10dB. AFTER the MCACC auto calibration, the SC-07 set the TRIM level at -6.0dB which produces way too much bass. I than set the TRIM level of the SC-07 all the way down to -10.0dB (lowest trim level setting).

Even at the lowest trim level from the SC-07 at -10.0dB, there still seems too much bass from the PB-12 Plus.

Anyone have a good suggestion to set the PB-12 Plus with using the MCACC auto calibration?

That sucks. But you've got to admit that your case is a bit complex. I think it did go like:

SB12-NSD -> upgrade -> PB12-NSD -> exchange (twice?) -> return

Considering you were past the 45 days return window on the SB12, how do they deal with all that? I mean you had to return the SB12 in order to upgrade? So do they just refund the upgrade and send you your old SB12 back?

Are you speaking about the low-pass filter cutoff on the sub itself? If you're using an AVR with bass management, you should simply set the LPF to "disable" -- everything will be taken care of in the AVR.

If you're talking about the crossover frequency in the AVR, then dips in the crossover region is typically best solved by tweaking the sub distance in the AVR.

Granted, REW is essential to discover and fix such problems.

I have another Pioneer AVR with Pluses subs but I don't have this specific problem. In your case I'd try setting the sub gain lower, e.g. -15 dB, and run MCACC again. If MCACC is unable to set a sane sub level, then either use an SPL meter, or judge it by ear. I for one find the result of MCACC a bit lacking in the bass department, but that may be an artifact of my EQing habits (I'm boosting the very low end which may distort measurements).

Yeah I know. It's just the lack of communication. Like telling me they will look into it and get right back to me. Then I have to contact them.


But to answer your question. No the way te initial upgrade worked, I ordered the pb12 as if I was ordering it first. Then after I sent in the sb12 they credited my Paypal as if I exchanged the sb12 ( minus shipping). So now they are fully refunding me the entire purchase price of the pb12 since I now have zero products. I am sure they sold the sb12 as b stock


But Ed fixed it all today. So that made me feel better. Like I said. I have no ill will or feelings. I just feel their QC and CS aren't up to where they used to be. Hopefully it changes back to where they were.

I'm commenting about the limit potentiometer on a sub. It doesn't have a disable feature.


This isn't a dip as the sharp null I was commenting on was at 28Hz. All the LPF's or crossovers in the AVR are set to 60Hz. I'm working with two subs so I can't use the sub distance setting in the AVR to control phase and have to control it at the sub. But in this case, in the new location, there's no phase conflicts as there's only a foot difference in distance from the main listening position; 12' vs 13'. This new location is "wonderful."

Thanks for your thoughts. The point of my comments is to highlight the need for one to breakdown, hit the hip and acquire realtime room analyzing capabilities. One has to see it for themselves to realize how important this point is. The difference in a subwoofer system's performance, where conflicts like nulls have been worked out, is intellectually surprising and sonically surprising as the efficiency of volume dynamics are greatly improved.

I've shut the room analyzer down for the day and will play again tomorrow as I have a wide ten dB null in the middle of the right shoulder slope to work on in the 80Hz range. The advantage of being retired, I get to play with stuff like this and there's no penalty.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/27/13 at 3:53pm

Looks like you are sitting in an area with a huge peak at some frequency and this is overwhelming bass quantity.
Ideally measure the response with REW or Audionet Carma and see where the peak. You may have 6dB or more and the feeling it conveys, is to be much stronger than the other speakers and all sound diretamente eat.

The other solution is to pass a frequency sweep between 15Hz and 120Hz and an SPL meter, look that tells.

Once located the bathroom as big bass, you can use the parametric equalizer that is available on the PB12-Plus STA-800D (In my case I have two, even I do not understand why and DSP is also a plus ). This PEQ can flatten quite a pick and can help solve your problem.

Another way is to try to move the subwoofer and look for the most optimal position between your speakers, room and your listening.

It's a shame that Pioneer Subwoofer EQ available, I'm sure with Audyssey or anti-mode, you also could solve much of the problem.

greetings

Israel

Thanks neutro and Lecter83 for your great advice!

We are getting new furniture soon that is going to free up some space and let me accommodate a PB13. The room is approximately 3200 cu.ft and somewhat open to other areas. I currently have a PB12-Plus that I love and performs great, so I'm wondering if the PB13-Ultra will offer enough of a performance upgrade to justify the extra $$$.

Thank you, I'm always grateful to be able to help as much as possible with this brand, I am very familiar with it.
lol, have passed through my hands almost every signature models.

In my humble opinion, I had a PC13-Ultra DSP and sold. I went for the PB12-Plus, the sound quality is similar, in some cleaner plus, since the driver is not close to the ground and this may not excite both the modal response of the room (I appreciate quality improvement in audio for music).

In terms of performance, are more or maybe 2db 3, the differences are few and I would not go to a plus ultra, would try to add a second PB12-plus, improve the frequency response in all seats and would earn between 3 and 6dB factor depending on the room, loudspeakers and the listening point and the position of the subwoofers.

I try to say maybe crazy levels, you might notice a slight improvement with the ultra, but I'm sure it's not worth it. Better shuffle the option to add another one to which you already possess.

Thank you Lecter

I have the same problem with my sb13 ultras.

In your case, I think it would be best to contact Ed Mullen SVS. He'll know it's because this little problem.

regards