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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 329

post #9841 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridfive View Post

Sealing the middle tunes the sub to 16HZ. Please make sure you have this mode selected on the amp!

MATA7, this ^^^ is really important. If you block one port, you *have* to select the 16 Hz tune in the amp. Failing to do so might damage the driver at high volume. (In fact I think damage may happen the other way around, i.e. if you keep all ports open but select the 16 Hz tune in the amp). In any way, performance may be suboptimal if you do not set the sub as follows:

all ports open -> 20 Hz tune in amp
one port blocked -> 16 Hz tune in amp
two ports blocked -> (not supported)
all ports blocked -> sealed tune in amp

Using the 20 Hz tune (all ports open) will result in maximum output.

Your STF-3 was not a bad sub by any standard so on many types of content you may notice very little difference. Where the Ultra will shine compared to the STF-3 is 1) at high volume and 2) around 20 Hz. You may have minor setup issues but if you still have your STF-3, you may compare by switching back and forth between the two with content that is especially hard to reproduce. For example, the famous "Bass, I Love You" track (which is not a very brilliant piece) will sound differently on various subs. On a mediocre HTiB sub I heard almost nothing of the bass line, which has notes in the 20 to 40 Hz octave. My SB12 rendered that quite well. But my dual Plus setup tuned to 16 Hz revealed another note that I never heard with the SB12. Not sure if it's the rumored 7 Hz note or not biggrin.gif

Personally I think "Soul Purge" by Noisia & Foreign Beggars is one of my favorite sub test. It played quite well on the SB12 but it ran out of steam with my AVR volume reaching -15 to -10. With the Pluses I can crank this at unholy levels and they're not even breaking a sweat.

In terms of movies you'll have to select one of the movie in the 5-star master list of bass. One of our favorite is the Pod Emergence scene in War of the Worlds. Crank the volume a bit and compare with the STF-3 -- I would be very surprised if you don't notice any difference.
Quote:
I received my PB13-Ultra last week and also am waiting on my SPL meter to run some REW tests. Iam sure my sub isnt set up in an ideal situation as i am left a little unimpressed. Not Disappointed just not a night and day to justify the $1500 upgrade from my previous Velodyne.

Congrats on the new acquisition! I think I got the same feeling upgrading from the SB12 to the dual Plus setup. When you go from a HTiB sub to a real sub, the difference is indeed night and day. But when the previous sub is actually quite capable to begin with, the gains are indeed a bit more subtle, or found in different conditions. I'm not sure which Velodyne you had (or if you still got it) but you will likely observe the Ultra's superiority, as with MATA7, on very low-frequency content and also at higher volumes. After all, even the smallest ported sub from SVS (the PB-1000) has a flat frequency response down to 20 Hz. So why spend $1500 more on an Ultra? Well the difference in timbre may be minor, but the Ultra will simply destroy the PB-1000 close to reference volume. Try the suggested tests above...

But you are both right about setup. Position can alter tremendously how the sub sound, and setting up my first Plus, I was actually surprised it sounded worse than my SB12. Tweaking the position and gain, etc. I managed to make it sound much better. One thing that is surprising is that the Plus actually sound, surprisingly in my opinion, tighter than the SB12, whereas I was expecting a more guttural sound.

In my case, EQing also helped a lot getting the sound I wanted from the subs. I squished a large peak around 50 Hz and restored a gentle house curve that boosts the very low end (below 30 Hz) -- this made the SB12 run out of steam quite soon, whereas the Pluses can take it with no problem.
Edited by neutro - 1/29/13 at 7:29am
post #9842 of 15598
man i really start to get i love whit the sound of this sub the bass is so loud and clear just pure crisp bass, i cannot believe the improvement that SPL made to my sound system, im still working on tweaking the sub but i can tell you right now things are locking lovely, music is amazing and movies is like heaven, i put today master and commanders and the bass was stunning
post #9843 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Thanks Lector for that comparison. However *some* people *do* drive Pluses and Ultras to their limits biggrin.gif Not everyone are cramped in 10 sq. meters living room here. For example we had a member two weeks ago (was it mantaray? I think it was, too lazy to check) who had flapping sounds listening to the super lycan's footsteps at reference volume in a huge room. Not sure the added oompf of the Ultra, or even a second Plus would have helped him.

I really don't know how far I am from the limits of my dual PC12-Plus. I like to think I'm quite far considering the power I have at my disposal in a small room, but on another hand, they pound so hard that I really wonder how much more they are capable of.

I'm sure you are very far from leading to limit its two beasts. Plays a strong passage reference level, for example the output of the tripods in War of the Worlds. Below you crouch with a flashlight and see how drivers are performing their displacement. Sure you are neither starting to sweat.

You do not have to worry, you've got more than it normally takes to fill a room at strong levels.

In my case, the room gain and the small size of the room, I can play at reference level and subwoofer barely breaks a sweat.

rolleyes.gif
post #9844 of 15598
Now put some pictures of my beautiful PB12-Plus DSP ...
Every bit I'm taking pictures, it's a beautiful thing to look at and very imponete in my room 10m2.

It looks dirty floor, is the life of a bachelor, apologize.









cool.gifbiggrin.gif
post #9845 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

man i really start to get i love whit the sound of this sub the bass is so loud and clear just pure crisp bass, i cannot believe the improvement that SPL made to my sound system, im still working on tweaking the sub but i can tell you right now things are locking lovely, music is amazing and movies is like heaven, i put today master and commanders and the bass was stunning

Really happy to hear that you are now getting that SVS total satisfaction out of your subwoofer.

So, do you mind to elaborate a bit on what the problem was? It was as simple as your receiver setting the subwoofer level way too low? So, by using your SPL meter, you did indeed identified the problem and adjusted the subwoofer level in your receiver? Or it was something else?

Cheers!
post #9846 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

man i really start to get i love whit the sound of this sub the bass is so loud and clear just pure crisp bass, i cannot believe the improvement that SPL made to my sound system, im still working on tweaking the sub but i can tell you right now things are locking lovely, music is amazing and movies is like heaven, i put today master and commanders and the bass was stunning

I'm glad you finally managed to get it to sound great. And yeah, M&C's initial surprise attack is stunning, good choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

I'm sure you are very far from leading to limit its two beasts. Plays a strong passage reference level, for example the output of the tripods in War of the Worlds. Below you crouch with a flashlight and see how drivers are performing their displacement. Sure you are neither starting to sweat.

You do not have to worry, you've got more than it normally takes to fill a room at strong levels.

In my case, the room gain and the small size of the room, I can play at reference level and subwoofer barely breaks a sweat.

I'm not really worrying: a back-of-envelope computation told me that I should be limited by my AVR powering the mains, center and surround even if I'm to run the subs hot by several dB. I figured that if everything sounds good from the mains, then I can't have yet reached the subs' limits.

I haven't tried looking at the drivers yet though, good idea biggrin.gif With the SB12, the driver's displacement was impressive indeed. The Plus have the same driver size, and while I have two, I played movies much louder than with the SB12. I guess they are moving quite a bit to produce what I'm hearing. Still, the SVS drivers are massive and capable of very large excursions, so no worry there.

EDIT: by the way, cool pics. I really would have liked a PB but lack of space, and money, prevented it biggrin.gif While the cylinders are still classy, they are no where as beautiful as those.
Edited by neutro - 1/29/13 at 11:04am
post #9847 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Really happy to hear that you are now getting that SVS total satisfaction out of your subwoofer.

So, do you mind to elaborate a bit on what the problem was? It was as simple as your receiver setting the subwoofer level way too low? So, by using your SPL meter, you did indeed identified the problem and adjusted the subwoofer level in your receiver? Or it was something else?

Cheers!

it was a few things i believe for example i did have one port sealed on the sub and i have it at 20hz on the amp and it should be 16hz as i learn, don't know how my LCR Speakers where set to larger i was pretty sure that i change to small "maybe i was dreaming" that along made a big different
post #9848 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm glad you finally managed to get it to sound great. And yeah, M&C's initial surprise attack is stunning, good choice.
I'm not really worrying: a back-of-envelope computation told me that I should be limited by my AVR powering the mains, center and surround even if I'm to run the subs hot by several dB. I figured that if everything sounds good from the mains, then I can't have yet reached the subs' limits.

I haven't tried looking at the drivers yet though, good idea biggrin.gif With the SB12, the driver's displacement was impressive indeed. The Plus have the same driver size, and while I have two, I played movies much louder than with the SB12. I guess they are moving quite a bit to produce what I'm hearing. Still, the SVS drivers are massive and capable of very large excursions, so no worry there.

EDIT: by the way, cool pics. I really would have liked a PB but lack of space, and money, prevented it biggrin.gif While the cylinders are still classy, they are no where as beautiful as those.

I have understood that they can get to hike some SVS models more than 2 inches peak to peak. It's a lot!
I really get to put extremely hot and once the tour of Plus was impresive.

I would really like to know how many inches are able hike.
post #9849 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

it was a few things i believe for example i did have one port sealed on the sub and i have it at 20hz on the amp and it should be 16hz as i learn, don't know how my LCR Speakers where set to larger i was pretty sure that i change to small "maybe i was dreaming" that along made a big different

Thanks for replying back. So, it was a mix of items then. But, the important thing is that now you are discovering how a solid subwoofer performs.........cool.gif

Problem with calibration software at the receivers is that every time that you run it, you have to go back and recheck that your speakers are indeed set to small. It happens to me all the time. But the funny thing is that my receiver always set the back surround as large and all other to small............crazy, uh?

Now that you are armed with a SPL meter and after each calibration (done by your receiver), you can go back and also validate that all speakers are properly SP leveled at 75 dB. Yes, it is Ok to run increase the subwoofer level a little bit higher than 75 dB (people refers to this as running the sub "hotter").

So, final question from me: did you wife give you a hard time on the size of the sub? If she wasn't happy about that, wait to see her reaction when you start pushing the Ultra to higher levels.........wink.gif
post #9850 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by "cr136124 
So, final question from me: did you wife give you a hard time on the size of the sub? If she wasn't happy about that, wait to see her reaction when you start pushing the Ultra to higher levels.........wink.gif

actually my wife like big sound to, i guess im lucky for that, she say OMG WHAT A BEST lol, sorry about the Caps Lock but thas how she react
post #9851 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Thanks for replying back. So, it was a mix of items then. But, the important thing is that now you are discovering how a solid subwoofer performs.........cool.gif

Problem with calibration software at the receivers is that every time that you run it, you have to go back and recheck that your speakers are indeed set to small. It happens to me all the time. But the funny thing is that my receiver always set the back surround as large and all other to small............crazy, uh?

Now that you are armed with a SPL meter and after each calibration (done by your receiver), you can go back and also validate that all speakers are properly SP leveled at 75 dB. Yes, it is Ok to run increase the subwoofer level a little bit higher than 75 dB (people refers to this as running the sub "hotter").

So, final question from me: did you wife give you a hard time on the size of the sub? If she wasn't happy about that, wait to see her reaction when you start pushing the Ultra to higher levels.........wink.gif

Hello.

I see you have some RTi A9 What is the crossover that is using her, 40hz, 60hz or 80hz?
I in my CSi A6 and A7, the second I have to 40hz indicated after performing Audyssey calibration and the work is excellent.
The question is just curiosity.

regards

rolleyes.gif
post #9852 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

actually my wife like big sound to, i guess im lucky for that, she say OMG WHAT A BEST lol, sorry about the Caps Lock but thas how she react

Reeaalllyyyy?!?!?!? eek.gif

Does she have a sister?

Double score for you then.........powerful subwoofer purchased and cool wife that doesn't complain about your toys!

Nice!
post #9853 of 15598
has anyone tried antimode for equalizing ?
post #9854 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlb48 View Post

has anyone tried antimode for equalizing ?

Im using antimode with a pair of Empires downstairs and I too have wondered what it would do for my PB12-Plus. Right now I have it eq'd from a 3808ci. I hope someone has tried this with a PB12 or 13.
post #9855 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlb48 View Post

has anyone tried antimode for equalizing ?

Yes. I used to use the 8033-C with my dual Ultra's. Worked well. I have since been using XT32 in my AVR, which works a bit better as it allows for different distance/phase settings for each sub. Overall, the difference was noticeable, but not Earth shatteringly different. The Antimode is a solid, easy to use, device.
post #9856 of 15598
I notice the PB12-NSD has a dome on the speaker, and the PB12 Ultra has a completely smooth speaker. Are there benefits of one over the over?
post #9857 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

I notice the PB12-NSD has a dome on the speaker, and the PB12 Ultra has a completely smooth speaker. Are there benefits of one over the over?

Both the plus and the ultra compound have the same membrane, but the engine is different.

The membrane of these two, is even lighter and has better transistorial response, low distortion, and are also designed to be pressed in a much stronger than in the NSD range.
post #9858 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

I notice the PB12-NSD has a dome on the speaker, and the PB12 Ultra has a completely smooth speaker. Are there benefits of one over the over?

I'm no expert in drivers but I think Lecter has part of the answers. The drivers in the NSD and Ultra series are quite different. The NSD series has an aluminum cone, and the dome you speak of is simply a dust cap. My belief is that with an aluminum cone, maybe it's not possible to attach it to the motor without making a hole into the cone. With a hole in the cone, you have to put a dust cap, well, to prevent dust from getting inside the motor. If I remember correctly, the NSD driver is a Peerless XXLS driver modified to SVS' specs.

The Plus and Ultra drivers are made out of composite pulp/fiberglass that is press layered. My guess is that how that attaches to the motor has to be completely different from an aluminum cone. In the Plus and Ultra, by the way, the cone is not glued to the surround to prevent it from detaching too easily: it's actually stitched to the surround. I guess an aluminum cone cannot be stitched either. Not sure if the Plus and Ultra drivers are modified COTS drivers or entirely built by and for SVS.

I don't think one design is fundamentally better than the other as various high-performance drivers are found with and without dust caps, and with different materials. But different designs call for different ways of piecing the whole driver together.
post #9859 of 15598
my conclusion is that this sub is a beast, today i was listen some music and i was felling the bass on my chest , incredible crisp bass im so glad that i got this sub, thanks everyone for you help
post #9860 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm no expert in drivers but I think Lecter has part of the answers. The drivers in the NSD and Ultra series are quite different. The NSD series has an aluminum cone, and the dome you speak of is simply a dust cap. My belief is that with an aluminum cone, maybe it's not possible to attach it to the motor without making a hole into the cone. With a hole in the cone, you have to put a dust cap, well, to prevent dust from getting inside the motor. If I remember correctly, the NSD driver is a Peerless XXLS driver modified to SVS' specs.

The Plus and Ultra drivers are made out of composite pulp/fiberglass that is press layered. My guess is that how that attaches to the motor has to be completely different from an aluminum cone. In the Plus and Ultra, by the way, the cone is not glued to the surround to prevent it from detaching too easily: it's actually stitched to the surround. I guess an aluminum cone cannot be stitched either. Not sure if the Plus and Ultra drivers are modified COTS drivers or entirely built by and for SVS.

I don't think one design is fundamentally better than the other as various high-performance drivers are found with and without dust caps, and with different materials. But different designs call for different ways of piecing the whole driver together.

You are in the right track.

The only thing, and Ultra Plus controllers are directly created by SVS.
Only by NSD are echos Peerless . :-D
post #9861 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

You are in the right track.

The only thing, and Ultra Plus controllers are directly created by SVS.
Only by NSD are echos Peerless . :-D

Thanks for confirming -- the Plus and Ultra drivers are quite unique I think as most sibs with that kind of performance use larger diameter drivers. Not sure why SVS seems to be set on not using 15" drivers...
post #9862 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

my conclusion is that this sub is a beast, today i was listen some music and i was felling the bass on my chest , incredible crisp bass im so glad that i got this sub, thanks everyone for you help

I do to feel bass in my chest and about all body cavities too biggrin.gif yet even listening at high volumes I don't get the same chest thump as in a bar for example. Not sure if it's the fault of the subs or mains though; I'll try a 120 Hz crossover soon to see if the bass feels even punchier.
post #9863 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I do to feel bass in my chest and about all body cavities too biggrin.gif yet even listening at high volumes I don't get the same chest thump as in a bar for example. Not sure if it's the fault of the subs or mains though; I'll try a 120 Hz crossover soon to see if the bass feels even punchier.

I too, am after this result. Let me know how you go!
post #9864 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I do to feel bass in my chest and about all body cavities too biggrin.gif yet even listening at high volumes I don't get the same chest thump as in a bar for example. Not sure if it's the fault of the subs or mains though; I'll try a 120 Hz crossover soon to see if the bass feels even punchier.

In my experience, most of the chest thump tends to come from upper bass frequencies in the 80-160 hz range). Ultra low frequencies (below 30hz) can and do create a thump as well, but most of the stuff people hear/experience in a club or live concert isn't that low, and most (maybe all) DJ/concert rigs don't do much below 30 hz. Same with movie theaters and most car audio set ups.

Higher crossovers frequencies to the sub and/or more powerful mains tend to provide this fairly well.
post #9865 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I do to feel bass in my chest and about all body cavities too biggrin.gif yet even listening at high volumes I don't get the same chest thump as in a bar for example. Not sure if it's the fault of the subs or mains though; I'll try a 120 Hz crossover soon to see if the bass feels even punchier.

do you change the crossover on the sub amp or the receiver?, mine is set to 80hz on the sub amp and the receiver
post #9866 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by MATA7 View Post

do you change the crossover on the sub amp or the receiver?, mine is set to 80hz on the sub amp and the receiver

Either is fine, but most will recommend bypassing the crossover on the sub and using the receivers xover as they tend to be a little more accurate.
post #9867 of 15598
Yes, you should set the crossover on the AVR only and disable the low pass filter on the sub. If both are active at the same time the filters' effects add up, leading to much steeper transitions between the sub and mains.
post #9868 of 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

In my experience, most of the chest thump tends to come from upper bass frequencies in the 80-160 hz range). Ultra low frequencies (below 30hz) can and do create a thump as well, but most of the stuff people hear/experience in a club or live concert isn't that low, and most (maybe all) DJ/concert rigs don't do much below 30 hz. Same with movie theaters and most car audio set ups.

Higher crossovers frequencies to the sub and/or more powerful mains tend to provide this fairly well.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. And I think in bars, etc. the results are heavily EQed to provide that feeling. Note that I'm not just after chest thump because I want lots of it. I'm just curious about why my setup is not giving that much of it considering the size of the subs, etc. In all probability if I achieve it using the 120 Hz crossover, I'll revert back to a lower one because it may in fact get distracting / annoying when listening at normal levels. I just want to know what it takes to get it.
post #9869 of 15598
dont be too concerned on size of sub and chest thump.. I am (as I type this) listening to pandora on my logitech Desktop 2.1 system with 4" sub (cabinet ~6"x5"x 7") and I am getting chest thump....

pretty sure it is 100% frequency related
post #9870 of 15598
I'm not really concerned, just curious. Also chest thump is a matter of level as I *do* get thump but of a different variety. For example in Battle: LA, I distinctly felt gun shots in my back (I guess this is because of the floor path to the couch). In some sequences bass tickled my hair. I never felt that about anywhere, except maybe when standby by huge speakers in venues. So as you say, I'm pretty sure the subs would be capable of that; the question that remains is how to set them up to get that feeling, and if it's something that I want or not in the end tongue.gif As Snowmannick said, this is maybe something normally left to mains, but much larger mains that are normally found in modest living rooms.
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