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Free calibration soft (non-excel) - Page 58

post #1711 of 3254
It gets better.

As part of something else I was doing, I rolled back a driver version, and it was different yet again.
post #1712 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShannonCA View Post

I most certainly will, because as I followed HDholics advice, I have found the Spyder2 to be limiting yet again. I did seem to be getting a more accurate reading (when it would read), however it wasn't reading anything below 20 IRE.

When I tried a continuous measurement, the readings were all over the board: sometimes nothing, sometimes everything near 100%, and sometimes red 0%, green around 150% and blue around 46%. When I would attempt a grayscale measurement, for the 10 IRE reading, I would get an error saying "No data from Sensor" which would mess up my RGB histogram.

I don't have any issues with using Spyder2 with plasma TVs. I do my measuring in a dim or even in a dark room. Spyder correctly pointed out to elevated reds at 10% stim which I did not pay attention to at first, thinking that anything below 20% stim was not worth attention. After I fixed the red cut, Spyder correctly reflected the change in grayscale.

So far I don't have reasons to say that Spyder2 is "limiting" at 10% or 20% stim. Maybe it works better for plasma than for PTV.
post #1713 of 3254
For you Monaco Optix-XR/DTP94 owners out there, do you tripod mount this guy or do you place it right up against your panel (plasma in my case)? It should be arriving on Friday so I wanna know if I need to fish out my tripod or not (its in some box after we recently moved.) Thanks
post #1714 of 3254
SiegeX

Right up against it, no need for tripod in this case
post #1715 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

I don't have any issues with using Spyder2 with plasma TVs. I do my measuring in a dim or even in a dark room. Spyder correctly pointed out to elevated reds at 10% stim which I did not pay attention to at first, thinking that anything below 20% stim was not worth attention. After I fixed the red cut, Spyder correctly reflected the change in grayscale.

So far I don't have reasons to say that Spyder2 is "limiting" at 10% or 20% stim. Maybe it works better for plasma than for PTV.

Well, I only have a problem reading the low IRE's when I'm using it with the green filter on, and HCFR set to LCD mode. If I take the filter off, and switch to CRT mode, then I have no problem getting readings... it's just that according to HDholic, that gives inaccurate readings.

I also turn out all the lights in the room, and even turn the computer monitor so it's facing the opposite direction from the TV while I'm measuring. I figured this is best to ensure the readings are not contaminated with light/color from any external sources. Is this in fact the best thing to be doing, or should I have lights on in the room?

What I ended up doing is re-calibrating my TV last night. I set everything back to default, and this time I calibrated my Standard temp settings using the green filter w/ LCD mode, and Medium temp using the filter off w/ CRT mode. Didn't finish until 2:30am, so I only had time to give each temp's results a quick glance. Both of them looked fairly good. The medium temp looked a little warmer, but I'm not sure if it's due to being inaccurate, or if the other setting is simply lacking. Tonight I'll be switching back and forth between the two to see which looks better to me.

One thing though... Last night I picked up some component cables to see if that would change the picture quality at all (I was previously using the stock [cheap] HDMI cable that came with my DVD player plugged into the DVI jack in my TV [using a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter]), and the results I had were a little bothersome. With the HDMI cable, I previously could not display blacker than black levels. With the component, I could display the blacker than black levels, but when I'd bright up the 0IRE gray window, I could actually see the window, even after doing my best do set bightness properly. Is this normal? On a related note, will the really expensive cables really make much of a difference in picture quality?
post #1716 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShannonCA View Post

With the HDMI cable, I previously could not display blacker than black levels. With the component, I could display the blacker than black levels, but when I'd bright up the 0IRE gray window, I could actually see the window, even after doing my best do set bightness properly. Is this normal? On a related note, will the really expensive cables really make much of a difference in picture quality?

First comment, a cheap HDMI cable is just as good as an expensive one unless it is so cheap that it actually causes bits to be lost. This will show up as "sparklies".

It's not unusual for some playback devices to clip below black. Unfortunate, but not unusual.

As to not being able to make the 0 IRE window disappear when using component, that is odd. You should normally be able to turn brightness down to a point that it goes away. Does your set or DVD player have a configuration option for "Setup level" or "Enhanced black". If so you probably need to change those.
post #1717 of 3254
Hey guys. I know there are huge debates going around about which is the "correct" gamma to use but which gamma within HCFR should i select when beginning a calibration?

A)DISPLAY GAMMA
B)DISPLAY GAMMA W/ BLACK COMPENSATION
C)CAMERA GAMMA (STANDARD OFFSET)
D)CAMERA GAMMA (MANUAL OFFSET...)
E)OPTIMIZED(REGRESSION)

p.s. I have a Sony LCD RPTV & also my measuring device is the EYE-ONE DISPLAY 2

Thanks guys!
Carmine.
post #1718 of 3254
B or E... (imho)

--Patrice
post #1719 of 3254
I remember seeing a post that mentioned a calculation based on contrast ratio and the result is what one would use in the manual offset of camera gamma. Can someone please point me in the right direction to find more info on this calculation?

Thanks...
post #1720 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

First comment, a cheap HDMI cable is just as good as an expensive one unless it is so cheap that it actually causes bits to be lost. This will show up as "sparklies".

What about using cheap HDMI cable and a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter (instead of simply an HDMI to DVI cable)... could that possibly cause any reduction in picture quality?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

It's not unusual for some playback devices to clip below black. Unfortunate, but not unusual.

It clips the below black when using the HDMI cable, but not when using the component. Could this be an example of losing picture quality due to the HDMI to DVI adapter? Or is it possibly a limitation of my DVD player (not able to process below black on HDMI, but possible on component)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

As to not being able to make the 0 IRE window disappear when using component, that is odd. You should normally be able to turn brightness down to a point that it goes away. Does your set or DVD player have a configuration option for "Setup level" or "Enhanced black". If so you probably need to change those.

I had adjusted brightness as close to being proper as I could before doing this. I didn't attempt to decrease the brightness any further, as I thought that wouldn't be correct.
post #1721 of 3254
The clipping of below black has nothing to do with the HDMI cables or DVI adapter. It's purely a circumstance of bad design of the player. There may be settings on the player to adjust this.

The correct setting for brightness on a digital display is such that the 0% field disappears completely. For CRT displays it's a little different since black level will shift as a function of the APL of the image.
post #1722 of 3254
Greeting group, since this gamma question has a few different choices. I am wondering if you could make a recommendation on which setting to use with. Would it be possible to include in the help files which settings work with what kind of display?
As an example
Display Gamma - works best with plasma displays
Display Gamma with black compensation - works best with LCD,DLP displays
Camera Gamma - works best with Projectors, Rear Projection
Optimized - works best with Projectors in brightly lit rooms
something to that effect.

Again I know that you can use any of these based on what you feel looks like the best picture but, what would you the developers feel what works based on what you had in mind when you put together this wonderful and free software?
post #1723 of 3254
Ok, so last night I decided to test out both of the temperature settings I established to see which one I liked better... it turns out that my preliminary impressions were correct.

The standard setting (which I set using the LCD mode with green filter on) had a slightly greenish hue, and slightly more washed out colors. The medium setting (set using CRT mode with the green filter off) had much more vibrate colors, but the skin tone sometimes seemed to have a tad too much red in them. Unfortunately the test material was simply SD cable.

With that said, I actually found inconsistency with the viewing material. For example, I watched American Idol last night, and thought the medium temp setting looked pretty much spot on... however when I watched a couple episodes of Seinfeld and Friends, I noticed the red in the skintone. Is this normal? Is it possible that older SD viewing material can appear to have inaccurate looking color, even when grayscale/color decoder settings are correct?
post #1724 of 3254
Broadcast is a bad choice to use for evaluating settings because often the show in question is shot/processed with a certain look. Think CSI Miami for example.

SD channels are even worse because they are usually analog converted to digital which causes a whole other set of issues.
post #1725 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldlvr View Post

I remember seeing a post that mentioned a calculation based on contrast ratio and the result is what one would use in the manual offset of camera gamma. Can someone please point me in the right direction to find more info on this calculation?

Thanks...

See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9576288 (maybe around page 4ish).
post #1726 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShannonCA View Post

Ok, so last night I decided to test out both of the temperature settings I established to see which one I liked better... it turns out that my preliminary impressions were correct.

The standard setting (which I set using the LCD mode with green filter on) had a slightly greenish hue, and slightly more washed out colors. The medium setting (set using CRT mode with the green filter off) had much more vibrate colors, but the skin tone sometimes seemed to have a tad too much red in them. Unfortunately the test material was simply SD cable.

With that said, I actually found inconsistency with the viewing material. For example, I watched American Idol last night, and thought the medium temp setting looked pretty much spot on... however when I watched a couple episodes of Seinfeld and Friends, I noticed the red in the skintone. Is this normal? Is it possible that older SD viewing material can appear to have inaccurate looking color, even when grayscale/color decoder settings are correct?

NEVER use cable/statellite material to judge picture quality. If you are calibrating from DVD then you are only calibrating for that source. What are the results when viewing DVD material?
post #1727 of 3254
RShannonCA,

That's terrible material to evaluate picture quality. First it varies from channel to channel and second you're not calibrating from RF input (such as pattern generator). Evaluate from a DVD movie since that is what you're calibrating from.
post #1728 of 3254
Right, I do understand that I'm calibrating from a different source, but isn't only the color decoder is source dependant? Adjusting grayscale should affect all sources, does it not? And I have also adjusted my 480i source using my PS2 w/ S-video to calibrate the color decoder... so with all that said, besides the anomalies that everyone has confirmed comes with SD broadcasts, my set should be displaying the shows accurately (like the American Idol episode that I watched last night)?

I will watch a DVD tonight to see how that looks. I'm just glad to hear that my hunch sounds like it's true.
post #1729 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by laric View Post

Hello,

Here is a link to v1.22f setup : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHC...up_v1_2_2f.exe
v1.2.x users can also use the app build-in version check/download.

The only difference with v1.22 setup being the missing file (for Eyeone), We do not change version num. nor anything in app and related (and in fact former link to Setup_v1_2_2.exe also include it now).

Sorry for inconvenience...

--Patrice

WHen I download and install this version 1.2.2f I still se the version listed in the help screen as 1.2.2 and when I check for updates in the application it still says an update is available and wants to DL 1.2.2f again. Is this as expected for an "f" version?

Thanks
Rich
post #1730 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by RShannonCA View Post

Adjusting grayscale should affect all sources, does it not?

Every TV is different, some have memory for each input and others don't. In your case each temp mode (standard, medium, high, etc.) affects all inputs.

Quote:


And I have also adjusted my 480i source using my PS2 w/ S-video to calibrate the color decoder... so with all that said, besides the anomalies that everyone has confirmed comes with SD broadcasts, my set should be displaying the shows accurately (like the American Idol episode that I watched last night)?

NO. Broadcast doesn't come from your PS2. Whatever you watch FROM PS2 is what you calibrated.
post #1731 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

WHen I download and install this version 1.2.2f I still se the version listed in the help screen as 1.2.2 and when I check for updates in the application it still says an update is available and wants to DL 1.2.2f again. Is this as expected for an "f" version?

Thanks
Rich

If you have CHCFRDX2.exe file in the software directory, it's ok
post #1732 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

WHen I download and install this version 1.2.2f I still se the version listed in the help screen as 1.2.2 and when I check for updates in the application it still says an update is available and wants to DL 1.2.2f again. Is this as expected for an "f" version?

Yes, this is normal, only the installation was updated (Setup_v1_2_2f.exe).

As I said, the app and all remain the same, only one file was missing in the initial v1.22 setup exe.

--Patrice

PS : The online v1.22 (Setup_v1_2_2.exe) was also updated so now no way to be annoyed
post #1733 of 3254
Feature request!

Background:
I have a lumagen scaler with Gamma "EQ". I can use it to shape the gamma curve to whatever slope I want using up to 11 points. to set it correctly with Color HCFR I usually select a 10 point reading and then chose my target gamma in references and bring up the luminance diagram. For each point of the reference curve I move the %-value to an excel-sheet and use it in conjunction with my 100IRE reading to get my target luminance for each point. I then use continous measures for each point and adjust the lumagen to hit my target luminance.

Request:
A built in feature for this. You should be able to tell the app your 100% value (eg make a reference reading at 100 IRE) and after that what % you are currently measuring using continous measurement. You should be able to select the current measurment point by clicking it in a luminance diagram (where the corresponding gamma curve should be visible and updated during the process). The target luminance for the selected point might be shown graphically much like the RGB bars and updated accordingly after each reading.

I belive colorfacts has implemented a similar feature in v7.

// Lyckman
post #1734 of 3254
That is in the "todo" list for v1.3... Although we do not garanteed it'll be there.

--Patrice
post #1735 of 3254
I might have guessed...
Awesome!

// Lyckman
post #1736 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyckman View Post

Feature request!

Background:
I have a lumagen scaler with Gamma "EQ". I can use it to shape the gamma curve to whatever slope I want using up to 11 points. to set it correctly with Color HCFR I usually select a 10 point reading and then chose my target gamma in references and bring up the luminance diagram. For each point of the reference curve I move the %-value to an excel-sheet and use it in conjunction with my 100IRE reading to get my target luminance for each point. I then use continous measures for each point and adjust the lumagen to hit my target luminance.

Request:
A built in feature for this. You should be able to tell the app your 100% value (eg make a reference reading at 100 IRE) and after that what % you are currently measuring using continous measurement. You should be able to select the current measurment point by clicking it in a luminance diagram (where the corresponding gamma curve should be visible and updated during the process). The target luminance for the selected point might be shown graphically much like the RGB bars and updated accordingly after each reading.

I belive colorfacts has implemented a similar feature in v7.

// Lyckman

Excellent feature request! I can see where this would be very handy.
post #1737 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Excellent feature request! I can see where this would be very handy.

Well, my EyeOne Display LT arrived yesterday and I can not tell you how much fun it was calibrating with HCFR last night! I can hardly wait to get home today and pick up where I left off. What a great SW tool!

I really enjoyed using continuous meas mode and watching the R G B values track across the PC screen while I adjusted the offsets and gains to bring them together. Oh What fun!

Couple of questions:

(1) What value of measured gamma should I be trying to achieve? My monitor (Panasonic plasma 50PH9UK) has 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 as options and I am measuring about 2.3 on the 2.5 setting now.

When I first started calibrating I could see the gamma color curved flattening out near the 90 - 100 IRE range. Backing down "picture" a bit put them back in line. Original "warm" color temp was about 7200, but its down at 6500 now. Very easy to do this just through the user menu so far since this menu includes offsets and gains for R and B.

(2) I realized last night that the luminance measures while viewing the "100 IRE" input ( i.e., dig 235) is by definition assigned to 100% on the gama curve (much like the poster above was mentioning). Likewise the 0 IRE (dig 16?) value is assigned to the 0% point of the curve, all that changes is what's in between, so no matter what you adjust these points will match. Even if your TV is very dim, you can still track the gamma curve perfectly since it only compares percent out to percent in. My question is, is there any way to measure brightness of the display in an *absolute* sense, i.e., in order to say whether one display is brighter than another. I guess this would be Lamberts or Candles, etc.

Thanks

Rich
post #1738 of 3254
Quote:


I have a lumagen scaler with Gamma "EQ". I can use it to shape the gamma curve to whatever slope I want using up to 11 points.

AVS forum user FoLLgoTT posted his VideoEqualizer 1.0 utility HERE.

He implemented 17 knobs. Seems a useful utility to anyone creating custom LUTs on a HTPC. Interesting to hear about the planned integration of a LUT editor into HCFR

-Dave
post #1739 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

(1) What value of measured gamma should I be trying to achieve? My monitor (Panasonic plasma 50PH9UK) has 2.0, 2.2, 2.5 as options and I am measuring about 2.3 on the 2.5 setting now.

Good luck getting a straight answer on that one. There's an entire thread devoted to the question and nobody can seem to agree.
post #1740 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

Good luck getting a straight answer on that one. There's an entire thread devoted to the question and nobody can seem to agree.


OH NO!!!..
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