or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Free calibration soft (non-excel)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Free calibration soft (non-excel) - Page 9

post #241 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by laric View Post

The v1.11 was just an update to the Spyder interface DLL, the main app did not change, hence it says v1.1.

The profile list is when using our Probe... I assume you don't have it, so don't bother this...
What probe are you using ?

Delta E automatically appear on RGB diagram as soon as you have done measures...

--Patrice

I'm using Spyder2 probe(filter is on) and I'm going to use your test dvd to test values. Probe is pointed at the projector about 40cm from screen.

"What other measurements should I do than gray scale with 10 values and primary and secondary colors to get Delta E. Must I measure saturation scales for different colors?"

Wrote the above and noticed that my Delta E is so off that I had to change scale

I hope you get your english Help ready so I get better understanding what kind of info I can get by measung saturation scales for different colors. Hints?

How about that histogram for free measures, should it have any values or not?
post #242 of 3254
Hello everybody

I will try to answer to many things in that post

Nigel, bad additivity is not necessarily a problem. Some projectors have valid calibration file, with big additivity errors. There are two main reasons for that: projectors which emit lots of infra-red have bad additivity check, but calibration file are OK. An example of that is TW-600. The other classical case is DLP projectors with a white segment on their color wheel. Since this segment is used for white and not for primary colors, you can have huge additivity errors. But calibration files work in that case too, you can have good results.

Just disable additivity check in sensor options dialog box (in calibration tab). You can easily check if your calibration file is suitable or not. Just measure primaries, and look at CIE chart. If gamut triangle looks fine, it's OK. When calibration file is useless, gamut triangle ressembles anything except a gamut

Joe,

Most histograms are about gray scale (luminance, RGB, color temp, CIE). The others rely on distinct series of measures. Near black histogram rely on Near black gray scale, and only on that. Idem for near white. The two saturation histograms (luma and shifts) rely on all 6 saturation series (and display only curves relying on existing series). The combined histogram rely only on free measures (continuous measuring). Only CIE chart shows everything (with options). Primary and secondary colors are only displayed on CIE chart.

And the information popup window, when active, rely on selected measure only.

Regards
Georges
post #243 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

Thanks Patrice,

Out of interest I ran the software1.11 in "simulated sensor" mode and got the same addivity error. Could the error be software induced?

I too have seen this error when in simulate mode . I have Win/XP SP2 . Haven't connected the Spyder yet (on order) .

Scott...............
post #244 of 3254
Don't bother this kind of things with Simlulated Probe... That is normal, it can return abnormal values.

BTW, Georges and Maik were prolific, a new 1.12 will pop in soon (just need to build setup).
It include German support as well as a few improvements in CIE Chart display and a more advanced Delta E management.

--Patrice
post #245 of 3254
@HCFR team

Thanks for the great work - tried the s/w yesterday with my BG808 and the Spyder2 and it worked great. Much faster than the method with OptiCal and an Excel sheet.

Used it with the sensor (without filter) facing the CRT to get better readings in the lower IRE's; as already requested a compensator would be nice i.e. x = read 80IRE facing proj - read 80 IRE reflected and if activated the value is automatically subtracted in all IRE columns ... (need to make some tests though - I've no idea how big the impact is actually)

Auto-Read all IRE's would also be nice - on my test DVD the IRE fields from 10 to 100 are played in a row (each showing around 5 sec) and instead of pressing "Pause" on the player and hit "Enter" in HCFR it would be great if it goes all automatic
post #246 of 3254
Well, simulated sensor additivity trouble is perfectly normal... This pseudo-sensor is only a random number generator, with erratic returns... If you remove all random options and offset values in its options, return values will be absolutely perfect. Even better than any real sensor So you will no more have any additivity error.

This sensor is only here for internal test purpose, and for people who want to see how it looks when software is working. No more.

Trinitron, we are thinking about screen offsets. But we don't want to implement something if we are not sure it will work fine. And now, I don't know if I just have to use a vector in CIExy colorspace, or a transformation matrix equivalent to our calibration files, which can shift white point, primary and secondary colors in different relative directions... We have to think about that before going on programming.

Regards
Georges
post #247 of 3254
Hi thanks for your resonses.

I was just setting up my pc to be ready later tonight to try and do a calibration on my projector and also to do a side by side diy probe and spyder2pro. But the HCFR software v1.1.1 won't see this spyder probe? The probe is installed and running under usb devices but the HCFR software asks for CVspyder.dll
This is the version spyder2pro and the only drivers on the cd is CVspyder2

any ideas?

--Nigel
post #248 of 3254
I just want to add my thanks for this extraordinary software. As the earlier graphs portray below 20% stim (using Getgray DVD as source in my case) gets dicey and requires longer time for reading but it's smooth sailing with brighter levels.

It will come in very handy over the next few days - or weeks as the case may be - as I embark on fixing color nonuniformity on my Pearl (Sony VPL-VW50.) As I shifted the sensor over the different areas of the screen it was great to see all the variations graphed in Measures continuous mode, and they correlated well with what I can see visually. It'll ease the laborious process of correcting these variations through 3D Gamma on the Sony.

Dan
post #249 of 3254
I tried this out today on my Hitachi CRT RTPV TV. With the Spyder filter on, and the red tracks low. Without it, it tracks much better, but still tracks lower than my CALMAN run. The top is without the filter, the bottom with the filter.

HCFR Spyder runs
post #250 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

I tried this out today on my Hitachi CRT RTPV TV. With the Spyder filter on, and the red tracks low. Without it, it tracks much better, but still tracks lower than my CALMAN run. The top is without the filter, the bottom with the filter.

So do you think that there are discrepancies between both software reading data off the Spyder2 or any probe?
post #251 of 3254
I think that the CALMAN software is more accurate with the Spyder2 probe. I know that the CALMAN writers have worked with Colorvision about the cvspyder.dll.
post #252 of 3254
Laric is the spyder2 dll a part of 1.11 or part of the spyder2pro driver pack. I'm running 1.11 and can't get a spyder2pro to run.

If its part of the spyder2 driver pack, can someone with a spyder2 zip up and post here their cvspyder.dll, and maybe the associated drivers. I'm trying to do a side by side with a DIY sensor and so far I can't locate this dll. I'm hoping the different driver and dll will work ok.

cheers
post #253 of 3254
Would be nice to see a direct comparison between CalMAN & HCFR. I'd love to see which is truly closer in accuracy utilizing the Spyder colorimeter. As everyone else will most definately agree with me here, HCFR does have more of a professional look & feel to it, but how does it really compare in accuracy with CalMAN is the real question.
post #254 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

I think that the CALMAN software is more accurate with the Spyder2 probe. I know that the CALMAN writers have worked with Colorvision about the cvspyder.dll.

First let me say great looking app HCFR guys, it just gives us at CalMAN a much higher bar to hit with our next versions, which by the way will not need Excel.

Yes, in fact we have a licensed SDK from Colorvision for the Spyder2, an SDK from Gretag Macbeth for the EyeOne series including the Display2 and EyeOne Pro. We are also working with other manufactures in many areas.

As far as who is more accurate in using the Spyder2. Well the data from the Spyder2 is just that data. By reverse engineering the Spyder2 interface dll which was done by a 3rd party and given to the HCFR guys, getting the XYZ data is easy it's only a single call to the S2 dll. However setting up the Spyder2 before you get the data is very important but difficult step and can be a difference by as much as 10% in error if done wrong. The Spyder2 meter can be made to be accurate if you know how to set it up and know what all of the environmental factors that can effect it's accuracy and some environments it's just not well suited for. We have done extensive testing to make sure the way we setup the S2 up is the most accurate for each environment. By just reverse engineering the Spyder2 interface dll you have to make some assumptions about how to setup the S2 and not knowing what all of the factors are. I know this because that's what I did just about 1 year ago for the S2xyY app I released. When I joined Bill on the CalMAN project we got the SDK from CV to make sure the product we provided was accurate. Now knowing what I did I pulled the S2xyY because it could have accuracy issues and our License from CV was for CalMAN and not S2xyY.
post #255 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

I tried this out today on my Hitachi CRT RTPV TV. With the Spyder filter on, and the red tracks low. Without it, it tracks much better, but still tracks lower than my CALMAN run. The top is without the filter, the bottom with the filter.

HCFR Spyder runs


thought that was suppose to be true for CRT=Filter Off and filter on for LCD/DLP..or am I missing something.
post #256 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

Laric is the spyder2 dll a part of 1.11 or part of the spyder2pro driver pack. I'm running 1.11 and can't get a spyder2pro to run.

If its part of the spyder2 driver pack, can someone with a spyder2 zip up and post here their cvspyder.dll, and maybe the associated drivers. I'm trying to do a side by side with a DIY sensor and so far I can't locate this dll. I'm hoping the different driver and dll will work ok.

cheers


ditto..same problem here..
post #257 of 3254
Never mind..I copied from the Spyder2express file the DLL file to the HCMR file where the exe. file is at..and that took care of it..I HOPE..
post #258 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

thought that was suppose to be true for CRT=Filter Off and filter on for LCD/DLP..or am I missing something.

When using Spyder2Pro or Spyder2Express software, you'll be directed to remove the filter on a Direct View CRT. If you're using SpyderTV software, you never are asked to remove the filter. I'm not using a Direct View CRT, maybe I will try it set up for PROJ mode instead.

Meanwhile, very nice interface to run and use.

Here's what my CALMAN RGB tracking looked like during the same session:
(yes, it's time to check my calibration!)

CALMAN.PDF
post #259 of 3254
I would highly recommend seeing about gettig the official SDKs both for the Spyder and the MUCH more accurate Eye-one line (both the Display 2 and Pro). These are excellent pieces and are widely used.
post #260 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ Moore View Post

So - CalMan - you do have a major competitor that costs .... let's see here ....NOTHING..... so I guess you better get going on those enhancements. How about a continuous plot capability?

Agreed, this and many other features that don't even exist in any other products free or $2500. I would love to take about them but this forum has ears, so not until we can release them into beta
post #261 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

....setting up the Spyder2 before you get the data is very important but difficult step and can be a difference by as much as 10% in error if done wrong. The Spyder2 meter can be made to be accurate if you know how to set it up and know what all of the environmental factors that can effect it's accuracy and some environments it's just not well suited for. We have done extensive testing to make sure the way we setup the S2 up is the most accurate for each environment.

Are you referring to the screen offset here or something else that the CalMAN does that other software does not with the Spyder2 I'm not aware of?

I'm curious about this reported difference and will do a runs with my Spyder2 to compare what CalMAN and HCFR show.

I understand the need to not market CalMAN here, but appreciate the inferences. I'll be following closely.

Dan
post #262 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

I understand the need to not market CalMAN here, but appreciate the inferences. I'll be following closely.

Dan

Agreed, we can discuss this in another thread or over on the CalMAN forums at length. However I'm not going to be giving away any trade secrets we learned over the last year about the S2 or the SDK from CV.
post #263 of 3254
After comparing Lee Bailey's posted results between Calman and HCFR using Spyder2 probe, differences in tracking Blue and Green are minimal at worst. However, Red indeed tracks lower. Could this throw off an accurate grayscale calibration? How could this be fixed?
post #264 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by drapp1952 View Post

Are you referring to the screen offset here or something else that the CalMAN does that other software does not with the Spyder2 I'm not aware of?

I'm curious about this reported difference and will do a runs with my Spyder2 to compare what CalMAN and HCFR show.

I understand the need to not market CalMAN here, but appreciate the inferences. I'll be following closely.

Dan

Dan - Let's definitely take this offline, or over to our place. You know where to find us. I'm making it a personal mission to get all of the folks that are CalMAN users using HCFR back into the fold.

Bill
post #265 of 3254
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Is CalMan that threatened by HCFR?

it shure looks that way
and what's worst, threatend by a FREE tool
post #266 of 3254
The calman site is here :
http://www.calman.tv/

Click the "Forums" link to see what's being discussed ;-)

jeff
post #267 of 3254
btw. for those with upconverting players - do you use NTSC or HDTV on the Pref ->Ref-> tab

I have a 720 Mits 3000, upconverting 720P through an Oppo
post #268 of 3254
Being like most people I am willing to accept limitations of DIY equipment, what ever it may be. On the other hand alot of the real discovery's of this world are made by the people who do it themselves.

In this case, here you have DIY hardware that with average skill one can create a tool that can hold it's own. Then there is the software, here again it can hold it's own. All this being created because there was an obvious need that wasn't being filled by anything else available. There is many reasons for that isn't there.

As far as pay for software, personally no matter how much it cost's it's value is arbitury as the moment one place's a value on it it must perform perfectly, if it doesn't you will surely hear about it.....don't you think.

In my case, I live in a part of the world where professional calibrators have not been invented yet, so DIY is where it is at as far as I am concerned.

I give thanks to the group from HCFR for all their efforts especially because it is not fueled by economics.
post #269 of 3254
Hello,

You must keep in mind that Spyder and DTP support were added in about a week because we were asked for...

So far we haven't chosen to reverse engineer anything, we simply use respective probes drivers (and may be later other ways if we think it better suits). It's possible there will be improvement (if any are really needed).

BTW, the software was created and tunned for our probe... Although third party support was panned, it wasn't the initial goal... We think we have a very good probe (and even fantastic in regard to price ) and it is offered to anyone that either like DIY or can't afford EyeOne

Last, we trust in open source, but I assume you allready get that...


New version 1.12 is available here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorim...tup_v1_1_2.exe

It includes German, English and French language (Help are still in French Only), as well as a few improvements (nothing new on probe side).

--Patrice
post #270 of 3254
damn - and just like that..there is a new version...

btw..I love the software, for the novice, this is the way to go...its pretty straightforward in alot of ways..Thanks so much..
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Free calibration soft (non-excel)