5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 5

How about Marantz SR4001/SR5001? Call the Marantz to see if they do the processing of 5.1 PCM over HDMI. I'm pretty sure they (w/ HDMI v1.1) accept at least 5.1 PCM over HDMI, but not sure whether they apply BM, TA, and DPL IIx to the signal. As far as I know all other Marantz HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 implementations (SR9600, SR7001, and SR8001) allow these processings.

-Jay

Any of these receivers pass/switch 1080p via HDMI?
I was gonna open a new theread, but I found this, but it seem to only addresses the audio portion.MY tv is 1080p and looking to get a HD DVD player soon.
Thanks.

Thanks. I did go with the SR4001 after Marantz email support confirmed that it would apply bass management, etc. to the signal (I don't need PL IIx so I didn't ask). Although, I must say I am a little concerned since the response came from someone in the marketing department .

Quite a few of them do.

OK which one? I checked the Elite84 and the Yamaha 2700 no mention of 1080p.

They both pass 1080p signals, but do not upscale to 1080p. 1080p pass-through is explicitly mentioned in the product description of both receivers.

Thanks, I only checked sellers sites not mfrs, those had no mention of 1080p anywhere.I'll go check out Yamaha and Pioneer sites now.

Have a Sony A2000, what mid-level receiver should I buy.....Onkyo TX-SR674? Is there a better one in this price range?

Most of the Denon models do also. Check their site as well.

Check.

All I am looking for is a reciever that can:

Output an OSD via HDMI at 480p or better

AND

Accept 7.1ch LPCM via HDMI

I know the Denon 2307CI, and the new Sonys (3200ES,5200ES) can do this but are you saying there are brands from HK, Yammy and Pioneer that do this too?

Does the JVC RX-412B accept 7.1ch LPCM via HDMI at least?

For PS3, I know Lair and Resistance support 7.1 LPCM over HDMI and for movies, Ghost in the Shell and Final Fantasy Advent Children (BD 50 disks)

Me Too!

How did you determine the Denon supports OSD via HDMI at 480p+ ?

The only one that I have followed that can do this is the Sony 5200ES.

I read in another thread that yes, the STR DG1000 will accept 7.1ch LPCM via HDMI

Checking again and it seems you are right!


The AVR 2307 can only do 480i osd via HDMI


So now it looks like the HK AVR 645 is looking REALLY good.....If I understand correctly, it will accept 7.1ch LPCM via HDMI and can even do awesome Logic 7 processing to it as an option!....not to mention HKs have some of the best Room Correction/EQ abilities out there.......

I need to do more research.....I am getting either a Pioneer 5070 plasma or an Elite PRO-1140 plasma and I don't even know if they accept 480p via HDMI or not

Something I can't seem to find (probably can't find the right search terms...)

Will a Playstation 3, connected to a HDMI 1.1 receiver, correctly transcode TrueHD into multiple PCM streams over HDMI 1.1?

Thanks!

It wouldn't be transcoding. It would just be decompressing. However, at this point, I don't think Sony has announced what Blu-Ray audio formats are going to be decoded in the PS3.

Here's what's known http://ps3.ign.com/articles/742/742009p1.html

Oops. I meant to post this here and posted it in the Marantz thread....

BTW, in the discussion on a future proof receiver there is no mention of video capabilities. Personally, this is important to me as I want to use mine for video switching as well as audio control.

The reason I bring this up is that I was considering the Marantz 7001 but it turns out this receiver isn't capable of even passing through a 1080p signal. I think that is surprising (and disappointing).

-Tom

Like I mentioned in the other thread, where do you get your info that the 7001/8001 will not pass 1080p? It will not upconvert to 1080p (480p only) or transcode component to HDMI (480p, 720p, 1080i only), but will pass/switch 1080p through.

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesne...061002-03.html

I got the info from the lack of a single mention of 1080p (upconvert or pass through) on the Marantz web site, the brochure for the 7001 and 8001, and the owners manual of the 7001 and 8001. Isn't that enough?

I am glad to hear that it does pass it, wtf, you'd think Marantz might mention it?

I will put it back on my list, near the bottom, as I would like my receiver to be able to feed a 1080p panel - meaning I want it to upconvert (at least) 720p and 1080i to 1080p.


-Tom

Can anyone tell me if the HK AVR 645 can accept 7.1ch LPCM via HDMI and if it can apply Logic 7 post processing to that?

I am totally confused by most of these posts. What is the big need for PCM 7.1 capability? There are no movies mixed in 7.1. Even if they eventually remix some older soundtracks in 7.1, how different would it be from applying PLIIx to 5.1 LPCM, which you can do now to derive 8-channel playback? The same goes for gaming. You can already apply THX Games mode or PLIIx to 5.1 games to expand it to 7.1.

Also, the prior poster asked if an H/K receiver can accept 7.1 LPCM and apply Logic 7 to that? If you are already receiving 7.1 of uncompressed channels, what would Logic 7 do for that? Maybe I am missing something?

Folks want to be prepared in case 7.1 mixes do show up. Is that so unreasonable?
Probably not too different, though discrete channels always have the potential to sound better than matrix derived channels.
Aside from converting 2-channel and 5.1-channel material to 7 output channels (like PLIIx does), LOGIC7 also steers the contents of discrete soundtracks based on where those sounds image (which PLIIx doesn't do). This could be adapted for discrete 7.1 soundtracks.

For example: suppose you're listening to concert hi-def disc with a discrete 7.1-channel soundtrack, and suppose the recording engineer mixed the lead vocals in the front L/R channels instead of the centre (not uncommon with multi-channel music mixes). The vocals will image at the correct location (middle of the front soundstage) only for a listener in the sweet spot.

LOGIC7 will extract common mono information (like lead vocals) from the front L/R channels and steer it to the centre channel, where it is combined with the information in the existing discrete centre channel, before being sent to the centre speaker. Basically anything that would normally image at the centre of the soundstage, whether it is in the centre channel or in the front L/R channels, will end up being played back by the centre speaker. This way, no matter where you're sitting, those sounds always image at the correct/intended location. No collapsing to the nearest speaker.

The same thing is done with decorrelated (out of phase) sounds, which normally image outside the front soundstage. Those sounds are extracted from the L/R channels and steered to the surrounds, where they are combined with already existing discrete surround information, and output from the surround speakers.

So even with discrete 7.1 content, L7 could still do logic steering to place sounds where they would have phantom imaged. I say "could" because the L7 algorithm is currently designed for 5.1/6.1 discrete multi-channel sources. Like I said earlier, it would need to be updated for discrete 7.1-channel sources. But the same principles would apply.

Sanjay

The latest HK AVRs..
745/645/445 offer some very significant features with Logic 7.

1. Logic 7 can be used as a post-processor with incoming 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS digital streams. This can be output either as a 5.1 (post-processor does filtering and steering) or as a 7.1 (post-processor takes the L/R side surrounds and creates a 7.1 souundfield.
2. Logic 7 can be used as a post-processor with 5.1 PCM streams through HDMI and can create a 7.1 soundfield as well. Same function as the last part of #1. Note the AVR445 can do #1 but not #2...
3. Additionallly the 745/645/445 include the 8 channel digitizer so now the Room EQ will work with a 5.1/7.1 analog inputs. And 1 can have 1 global bass manager settings for all sources stereo, multi-channel, analog or digital..


Hope that clears the air..

None of those three features have anything to do with 7.1 LPCM over HDMI which I believe was Scott's line of questioning. I don't understand all the fuss here about 5.1 vs 7.1 over HDMI either, unless it is the gamers who need it as I don't follow that market segment.

I agree it is not unreasonable to be prepared, but it may be unreasonable to delay a purchase or discount an otherwise fine product due to the absence of a mostly frivolous feature. The fact that we have had discrete 6.1 and matrix 5.1 for 6 years now and no more than a few dozen new films have been mixed in either format, makes me wonder how quickly sound engineers will move to 7.1. Probably not until we are technologically well past even HDMI 1.3.



Wow, I was unaware of that. I had a Lexicon MC-12 in 2002-03 and never realized that with 5.1 music, L7 was remixing left/right imaging vocals to the center channel even if not originally mixed there. Although I agree then that L7 may have some use with 7.1 concert music mixes that several people are watching, again, I would guess the vast majority of critical music listening is a solitary exercise enjoyed at or near the sweet spot. Therefore, nice to have, but limited usefulness in a practical situations.

Some folks buy equipment based on what it can do now. Others buy based on future capability (the topic of this thread). People feel that there will be 7.1 content at some point: movies, music, games, etc. So why not buy something prepared for it?

Sanjay

Agreed. We routinely see people on these forums complain about the lack of HDMI 1.3 and/or lack of decoders built into receivers, when those features don't offer anything practical over current tech.
Actually your MC-12 wasn't doing any steering of the three front channels. That version of L7 was introduced to the MC-12 as a software upgrade last summer (August 2005). Ironically, it already existed in a couple of H/K receiver models (AVR-430 and 630) and Lexicon was playing catch-up.

Sanjay

Excellent thread. But, the Panasonic SA-XR700 is here. It's real. My order with vanns.com, an authorized Panny dealer, shipped Oct. 18. Another dealer on a different thread reports that he ordered 500 after his first few allotments sold out. I've been listening to it while reading that it's a ways off.

Enjoy!

Dana

BTW. The Manual says that it is equipped with HDMI 1.2a, the same as the Panny SA-XR57, its close cousin. Wikipedia says "HDMI 1.2a

"Released December 2005.

" * Fully specifies Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features, command sets, and CEC compliance tests."

And here is a thread about it....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745662