5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 53

i was trying 2 help. i can be schooled,but i heard that if your tv is 42 or below that the Display Compatibility is only 720p native. since your t.v. is 46" you should be fine.

What level would a onkyo 605 be?

It cannot do DPLIIx processing on 5.1 PCM, so it would probably be Level 4. Maybe it could have an asterisk since it is HDMI 1.3, and it can accept the new sound formats as bitstream.

DPLIIx processing on 5.1 PCM is nothing miraculous...its not even a discrete signal, so I cannot understand how this justifies putting a reciever on any particular level because of it. I can understand some people like the extra surround (I myself have a pioneer elite 81) ... but to call the new onkyo 605 a level 4? If a disc was made with only 5.1 pcm and it doesnt process it, your still not missing any information...the Onkyo 605 can handle 7.1 pcm, so when more and more discs do start to utilize the channels then it makes the processing obsolete anyways.

HDMI 1.3
Decodes Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master
7.1 LPCM

Level 4 ??

Yup. What the levels mean is clearly explained. It's based on capability. Better to have a fully-enabled HDMI 1.2a receiver than a less capable 1.3 model. They can't decode anything right now, and for the next few years matrixed will be the predominant source for 7.1 systems.

I just bought an A2 through the crutchfield $199 deal.

Can someone recommend a HDMI receiver in the 250-350 range that can accept the decoded TrueHD?

I know the Panasonic SA-XR57 is one, but it has low volume issues? I currently have a panasonic HTIB and it also has very low bass on the subwoofer. I don't want to deal with that again.

Also, with the new Onkyo 605, it looks like people are hearing popping sounds?

Thanks for your help.

Stunningly complicated is an understatement

There is so much different stuff out there, that I'm convinced the average consumer (who probably does not take time to digest the wealth of research put into these forums) really has almost no clue about what they are buying. And, since the vast majority of "full service" dealers have gone the way of big box stores, help at point of purchase is virtually non-existent.

I was fortunate to have the information in this (and many other) thread to help me when I upgraded my 15 year old Sony (and I use the term loosely) AVR.

The point is... when looking at things umbrellaed by a term "future proof", my reasoning was that, like many, I would not be replacing my AVR for many years, given the last one is still ticking after 15 years. So, I was looking to find an AVR that would take me through those years, and keep me as current as possible with most/all of the mainstream improvements that would birth during the life of the AVR.

Oh, yea... and I while I guess I could lay out $5K for an AVR, I chose not to. So, after digesting all this information, and putting it into a price/performance equation, I ended up getting a Denon 2807.

I am confident that was money well invested in a "future proof" AVR, by definition of this thread. And, that it would provide me with many years of service, with upcoming changes in technology.

To me, that is what this thread is all about.

I'm sure others could go through the same process, and come up with another answer, other than Denon 2807. And, that would be just fine. The point is, if you digest the information here, you've made an educated decision. Make/model beyond that is preference.

Post #1 in this thread establishes fundamental guidelines. One can only hope we don't need to granularize it down to the n-th degree. I, for one, understand that nothing is truly future proof.

Maybe I've skimmed through these pages a little fast, but I think the only two REAL reasons for HDMI 1.3 are these....

1. 1080/24p
2. DTS-MA (if you have a player that can't decode it, but can pass it out as an undecoded bitstream)

But does anyone know WHICH receivers will actually accept and pass through a 1080/24p signal? At this stage, only the PS3 (with software update) and Pioneer Elite will output 24p , but of course more will follow.

I think going with Denon was the right way to go for me. I looked at a lot of AVR's, too. Kept coming back to Denon. It would have been cool to grab the Anthem, though But, that kind of $$$ is 25% of a years college tuition for my daughter. Perhaps down the road

Dare I say... I am actually thinking of getting one of the Monoprice 3/1 HDMI switches . With the STB, Toshiba A2 and Oppo 981 players... I am short a port I cant connect the players up via component, as there is NO component output from the players. And, the A2 won't play audio cd's (well, those with MP3/WAV/etc.). I can't wait to see the can of worms open up, if I decide to do that.

In concept HDMI is pretty cool... one digital connection for everything. However, it turned out to ONE BIG MESS. At least the STB's/Providers *finally* seem to have ironed out the f/w issues, and they work "correctly". But, still... seems like every day, something else crops up.

The real reason for HDMI is HDCP. Everything thing else that HDMI.org is putting in there is to make that bitter pill taste better.

Don't say that. Deep Color is no more of a marketing gimmick than, say, 1080/24p. True, there are currently no Deep Color sources yet, and maybe none for a few years, but it still should result in a richer viewing experience when it arrives. Is it way too soon to go out of our way to own Deep Color gear? IMO, definitely! But I still don't call it a marketing gimmick.

He does have a good point, as /24 will be showing up more and more.

Maybe someone with MUCH MUCH more knowledge than me can make a thread like this one, only concentrate on the video aspects.

For example, the Yamaha 661 cannot pass the /24 but it can post process with PLIIx while the Onkyo 605 can pass the /24 but it cannot do any post processing.

Since neither BD nor HD DVD support it, it is indeed marketing/buzz right now. And the marketing works based on how many people worry about it. At least 24/p can be realized on current players/software, and many displays support it...even my older AE900.

I think we're all saying the same thing here, but for once I'm not the most cynical person in the "room." It does move the ball forward - or *will* when it arrives. Until then, no one should allow it to affect their equipment buying considerations.

Specs aren't static and given the PS3's capabilities, it wouldn't surprise me to see Sony add deep color first to games and then to the Blu-ray spec. I certainly don't see any reason to upgrade from my 4306 right now, though.

How soon will the 24 hz limitation become a problem...or will it ever become one?

Provided I buy a TV which can accept 24 hz, of course. Is the 3:2 pulldown really noticable on HDTVs?

As far as I know, all the Pio Elites take 1080px24. Mine does. And yes, 3:2 pd is noticable in HDTV's. My 2807 passes through at 24hz.

I'm pretty sure it's not that easy. All of the art would have to redone unless it's already 36-bit color, something which I doubt is the case as I believe everyone's working at a 24-bit depth. Perhaps somebody else can comment on whether or not movies are being and have been scanned at 36-bit. If not, then back catalogs will not be moving to Deep Color any time soon. I'd be interested in knowing if Lucas shot the latest Star Wars movies at 36-bit.

Lindahl, i have a question for you if you dont mind. I am a novice when it comes to audio/video home theater.

This is my understanding, if your dvd passes the audio as bitstream to the receiver, do we mean to say here that the receiver is responsible for decoding the audio. My second question, if dvd is set on pcm to receiver, do we mean to say that it passes audio to your receiver unchanged since the dvd player is the one doing the decoding?

Right now i have the pioneer vsx 1016 set up in the loft, and bought a pioneer vsx84txsi for my future set-up in the living room after reading this thread.

I mean for new games, not up-converting existing titles.

I'd certainly like the Star Wars movies redone in Deep Color as much (if not more than) 3D (hopefully along extended cuts with the inclusion of scenes deleted out of time/pace concerns, etc : Anchorhead / Biggs scenes, Wampa cave on Hoth, Sandstorm in Rotj, Obi-wan's shorted/wet saber on Naboo, more battle scenes on Geonosis, Senate stuff from RotS, etc etc)

If adding Deep Color to games is going to affect performance, I'd be against it. They can't even get many games running at a consistent 60fps in 720p yet, let alone 1080p. The last thing they need is something that gives the graphics processor and/or CPU more work to do, especially considering the small niche that would be able to take advantage of it. Make 60fps in 1080p the norm and then we'll talk DC.

The only way they can add it to movies is if they can do it so that non-DC-compatible players (every standalone player out there now) can still read the video and process it without DC.

Well, yes, there's more data to move around, so it would definitely affect performance. But compression schemes are getting better and better, so it could be a wash.

DVD-A and SACD can both be taken cared of by HDMI, 5.1/7.1 is backward looking and not forward looking. It should not be included in "future proofing" criteria. Although the media may not be going anywhere, HDMI will be there for them and so they do not matter if they or not as long as HDMI is there that can process SACD or A.