5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 9

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Thank you for your reply. where did you hear/read this?

and in addition to my post:
wil it also support DTS-HD (master) with this new firmware?

There's a card in the BD10 box to be mailed to Panasonic for an "upgrade disc" to be sent when available. It says that the upgrade will be for DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD.

Dana

also an idea if this applies for the Europe models? (Netherlands)

This particular insert is for US and Canada, probably because the postal addresses have to be specific. But, the current firmware 1.2 upgrade has been posted as a global download so it is hard to imagine that the DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD update won't be made available globally.

The only reason I can think of for providing the DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD update by disc instead of download is that it may be large, necessitating a DVD.

Dana

So the firmware will be send to you be post on a dvd? Will the firmware upgrade also include an update of the analogue outputs to TrueHD and DTS-HD or will this only update the HDMI output?

The DVD format is only a guess and I have no idea what the firmware will do.

Dana

Ã*re there any other announced BR players that will support TrueHD and DTS-HD AND have a 7.1 anologue output?

No.

Dana

Looking at the DRM measures that have been taken, I doubt we'll ever see pure analogue out from these players... probably "downscaled" first, before it's sent to the analog outs.

"Home theater enthusiasts with established audio or video systems will need to shop carefully
to select players with the right type of outputs for their existing equipment. Table 1 shows some
examples of the types of connectors and output signals these next-generation optical players
could deliver:

"Connector / Signal

"Line output / Two-, six-, eight-channel analog

"S/PDIF / Two-channel PCM, Dolby Digital

"HDMI 1.1 / Two-, six-, eight-channel PCM, Dolby Digital

"HDMI 1.3 (future) / Two-, six-, eight-channel PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby
Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD

"Table 1 Possible Output Connections and Signals from HD Disc Players

"Next-generation optical players may have one or more of these output connections, and each
connector type may support one or more possible signal types. It will be necessary to select
a next-generation player for its specific output configuration and for the signals the playback
system needs from it. No longer can a consumer assume that every player will work with every
A/V receiver."

Link: http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...whitepaper.pdf pg. 9 (Forward slash "/" added as separator in table.)

Dana

Aren't you audiophiles disgusted that EVERY time there is a NEW Digital Codec, Reciever Companies are trying to get you to buy the "WHOLE PACKAGE" again, I mean on a GOOD Reciever the POWER AMP section should be about 80% of the total price. Back in the 80's, an "audiohead" TRIED to get me to buy seperates(POWER AMP and tuner) it didn't make sense at the time because the "Digital" revolution wasn't really here yet, and "TUNER" standards changed very little, but TODAY with constantly changing codec's it is making ALOT more sense.My advice GET A GREAT POWER AMP, and but a "NEW" tuner every couple of years.

not true. Already announced that the Pana BD-10 will have an firmware update early in 2007. He now already has a 7.1 analogue output that supports DD+. Most likely this update will ensure that the analogue 7.1 output will than support TrueHD and even DTS-HD.
We will have to wait what the HD camp will do but I have a good feeling that they will make a player in the near future that has 7.1 analogue output that support TrueHD and DTS-HD too.

just keep the topic on top of the forum!

Can someone confirm if the Denon AVR-887 does 7.1 PCM over HDMI? I looked in the manual and all over the net and cannot find anything. Been over a week and still no reply from Denon.

Go to the Denon site..
Download the AVR 887 Operation Manual..
On Page 19 they have a chart showing the audio formats handled through its HDMI input. It is 1.1 compliant so it can handle DD, DTS and DVD-A through HDMI..

Here is the link..

http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3251.asp

Next question..

Okay I downloaded the manual but on page 19 the only references I see are:
DVD-VIDEO
DVD-AUDIO
CD
SUPER AUDIO CD

None of these incdicate that it supports 7.1 PCM via HDMI. Am I looking at the wrong page? If my understanding is correct 5.1 PCM could handle DD, DTS and DVD-A, so that does not mean it does 7.1 pcm.

I am looking to see if this AVR will support 7.1 PCM via HDMI, for future compatability when next gen HD-DVD players actually output 7.1 PCM. I did not see anything in the manual that indicates that to me. I know people have mentioned that the AVR-2307CI does, and I know the AVR-887 is very similar but I want to make certain before I purchase it.

Mickdigler,

RTFM and RTFM , Check page 22.

Dear Lindhal,
for the best performance 2 ch. stereo what kind of connection CD/DVD player to the receiver do you recommend:
1. Analog
2. Coaxial
3. Optical
4. HDMI( for DVD player)
And how big would be the difference in Sound Quality?
Thanks.

Equipment:
1. Adcom GFR 700 receiver
2. Samsung HD950 DVD player
3. NHT 3.1 front speakers.

Hey guys, just have a quick noob question here...If I buy a 7.1 reciever to use with my current 5.1 speaker set will I be ok if I just plug the fronts into "front speakers A", rears into "surround back speakers", and have nothing going into "surround speakers"? I would still get full "normal" dolby 5.1 surround?

The reciever specifically is an Onkyo TX-SR503, would there be seperate 5.1 and 7.1 modes or would it just detect automatically? I just worry about missing certain sounds meant for the missing extra speakers.

Ok, I'm tired now. I just read the entire thread so as to not ask someone to repeat an answer. I learned quite a bit, so thank you to all posters.

I'm guessing that I'd be fine jumping in now rather than waiting until next fall, but will solicit an answer to my specific setup:

Pioneer Elite 50" plasma(1080i)
Toshiba HD-A1(have had it since April, but have not done any update)
PS3
Focal LCR + Sur speakers
M&K sub(and ButtKickers for good measure)

I have a relatively small theater room(16'x14') and do not plan on adding LR/RR speakers anytime soon. Upgrading my 4 or 5 year old Denon 3300 receiver to a current level receiver makes sense, correct? With only employing a six-speaker setup, all the hub-bub does not apply to me, right?

TIA,
Skip

At the risk of sounded completely ignorant (if I haven't already ) I read that page again and I don't understand what part on that page means it can do 7.1 pcm over hdmi. What am I not understanding? Can you please explain this to me? Sorry to be such a pain but I want to purchase today but only after I am certain it does this.

Connecting equipment with HDMI terminals
A simple 1-cable connection (using a commercially available cable) with a device having an HDMI (High- Definition Multimedia Interface) terminal allows digital transfer of the digital images of DVD-Video and other sources, and the multi-channel sound of DVD-Audio and DVD-Video.
To provide audio output from AVR-887's audio output terminal, select Amp at the HDMI In Assign. To provide audio output from the TV, select TV at the HDMI In Assign ( page 53).

Copyright Protection System
To play back the digital video and audio of DVDVideo and DVD-Audio through an HDMI/DVI-D connection, both the connected player and monitor are required to support a copyright protection system called HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection System). HDCP is copy protection technology that comprises data encryption and authentication of the partner equipment. The AVR-887 supports HDCP. Please see the user's manual of your video display for more
information about this.

The AVR-887 is HDMI Ver. 1.1 compatible.
If your digital monitor or DVD player only supports DVI-D, please obtain and use an HDMI-DVI
conversion cable or adaptor, available from your dealer.

NOTE:
The audio signals on the multi/stereo area of Super Audio CDs are not output. If the Super Audio CD is a hybrid CD, only the audio signals in the CD area are output.
Use a compatible player to play DVD-Audio discs that are copyright protected by CPPM.
Among the devices that support HDMI, some devices can control other devices via the HDMI terminal; however, the AVR-887 cannot be controlled by another device via the HDMI terminal.
The audio signals from the HDMI terminal (including the sampling frequency and bit length) may be limited by the equipment that is connected.
The video signals are not output properly if a device not compatible with HDCP is used.
Use an HDMI monitor compatible with an HDMI input resolution of 480i or 576i.
The video signals input from the HDMI input terminals are output to the HDMI monitor with their original resolution, so the image will not be displayed if the resolutions of the input signal and the monitor being used are not matched. In this case, change the setting of the resolution on the source device (player) to one which the monitor can handle.
Use a cable including the HDMI logo (HDMI certified product) for connection of the HDMI terminal. Normal playback may not be possible if a cable that does not include the HDMI logo (non-HDMIcertified product) is used.

Input signals:
DVD-Video:
LINEAR PCM - YES
DTS - YES
Dolby Digital - YES
DVD-Audio:
LINEAR PCM, PACKED PCM (with CPPM / without CPPM) - YES
CD:
LINEAR PCM - YES
Super Audio CD:
Multi area - NO
CD area - YES
Stereo area - NO

Connections with an HDMI/DVI-D conversion cable (adapter)
The HDMI video stream signals (video signals) are theoretically compatible with DVI-D. When connecting to a monitor, etc., equipped with DVI-D terminals, it is possible to connect using an HDMI/DVI-D conversion cable, but depending on the combination of devices used the image might not be output.
When using an HDMI/DVI-D conversion adapter, the image may not be output properly due to poor contact with the connected cable, etc.

Use "surround speaker" connections for 5.1 setup and leave the "surround back" free. No adjustments need to be made in the receiver for 5.1 vs 7.1, you'll be fine.

Nothing.

The reason you're being pointed to the manual is because those posters cannot actually answer your question. The manual makes no indication whatsoever that it can handle incoming 7.1-channel PCM audio over HDMI.

And since there are no consumer soundtracks in 7.1, no current AVR-887 owner has any way of confirming that this receiver can do what you're looking for.

Remember, it's not enough for a product to have HDMI, the manufacturer has to activate those features. For example: the $10,000 Halcro SSP100 pre-pro has HDMI 1.1 but can only accept 2-channel PCM audio over that connection.

HDMI is capable of transmitting 8 channels of 96/24 PCM audio. Whether that capability has been activiated in the AVR-887 remains unclear. Wish I had a more re-assuring answer.

Sanjay

Great, thanks for the help! I will go with that reciever then.

Sorry did not notice 7.1 question- honestly I have no idea and all manual claims is it can offer HDMI 1.1 like functionality. I presume it might since it does support 5.1 PCM thru HDMI anyway.. but you know what they say about assumptions No idea how you can check it out either for next few months

Maybe you should mail denon tech support for clarification.

Cheers,
Kishore

One advantage of the Panasonic BD10 blu-ray player - Panasonic XR700 receiver tandem is that Panasonic makes a commitment to 8 channel linear PCM via HDMI (1.2a) on both.

"8ch Linear PCM Input through HDMI
"The DMP-BD10 decodes the Dolby® Digital Plus format's 7.1-channel surround sound signals, converts them to linear PCM, and outputs them through an HDMI terminal. The SA-XR700 receives these signals through its HDMI terminal and digitally amplifies them to produce a dynamic 7.1-channel surround sound. Only HDMI-compatible products can unlock the full digital surround sound potential made possible by the huge amount of audio data on a Blu-ray disc."

Link: http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/b...onvenient.html

Dana

Here's a helpful description of how DTS-HD might connect using HDMI or analog connections.

"How do I connect it?

"High Definition Player with DTS-HD Decoder to Current AV Receiver

"You can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio if you have a new Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD player with a DTS-HD Audio decoder built into the player. The audio will be decoded inside the player and passed to the receiver in two different ways.

"HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 Connection

"In this scenario, the high definition player would output the audio as an uncompressed 6 to 8 channel linear PCM digital audio stream. You will need a player with a built-in DTS-HD Decoder, and both player and AV Receiver need to include HDMI version 1.1 or 1.2* outputs/inputs. HDMI stands for High Definition Multimedia Interface, and is a single-cable connection designed to accommodate digital multi channel audio and video. Simply connect the HDMI cable from the output of the player to the HDMI input of the AV Receiver. The DTS decoder inside the AV Receiver will "ignore" the Linear PCM stream and pass the audio stream on to your receiver's digital-to-analog converters and then on to the 5.1 or 7.1 amplifier. This way you can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio that is a bit-for-bit identical to the studio master.
...

"6 to 8 Channel Analog Connection

"In this scenario, the high definition player will output DTS-HD Audio through the analog outputs of the player to your AV Receiver. The DTS-HD Master Audio or DTS-HD High Resolution will be decoded by the player and sent out as analog audio signals to the AV Receiver. You would Simply connect 6, 7, or 8 RCA cables from the analog outputs of the player to the analog inputs on your AV Receiver. The number of analog cables will be determined by the number of analog output/inputs on the player and receiver. The analog signals will go directly to the receiver's amplifier section. In this way you can enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master."

Link: http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-mast...g-receiver.php

Dana