5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 99

You misunderstood my comment about GIGO.

What I meant is you have a great BR player going into a not-so great AVR, we would recommend one thing. If you had the opposite, then you might get a different response. I am not suggesting that any of your components are garbage or that your questions were garbage. It was just a recommendation that you carefully consider that the quality of the answer is relative to the quality of the question.

Does that help you understand the situation?

fafner

Great info, thanks!

I understand this post is pretty old but people are still reading it and its pretty out-of-date.

Levels of Receivers:

The level system just doesn't work. There are way to many combinations of inputs to really accurately make a level system. Also HDMI 7.1 w/o processing (level 4) > HDMI 5.1 w/ processing (level 5).

Future-proof decisions:

If you do not care about 3DTV then get a receiver that accepts LPCM over HDMI.

If you do care about 3DTV then get a HDMI 1.4 receiver.

Level 7
?

Ok so there are 99 pages in this thread and alot of confusing stuff too.

My question.

I want only one HDMI cable ran to my tv.(from AVR) But i want also a receiver that can accept surround from HDMI(DTS dolbly and so on). I dont wanna run opti cables from my sources to the receiver. I have that now. with my Harmon Kardon avr-146.

My HDMI out puts are
Cable Box
Xbox 360
HTCP.( this may have to have Opti as i think my MOBO dosent do HDMI audio out in anything other than 2 channel.)

Tv is samsung un55c6500.

I wanna Stay on the lowest budget as i can. Im not picky on having the best sound there is out there.

I tried to search this thread but wording is a problem. Also the specs on AVR's at BB and others dont fully list what i want.

Thx in advanced.

Forgot to add only need 5.1

this thread is now way out of date, as pretty much every receiver sold on the market now does what you want. The only thing to worry about now is if you want to wait for the new models to come out with HDMI 1.4 support (e.g. if you care about 3D).

The Denon 1610/590 would be a nice choice if you don't care about 3D -- around $300, 3 HDMI inputs, all the HD audio decoders, solid 5.1 amp section, Audyssey MultEQ, and conversion of all video inputs to one HDMI cable to the TV.

Yea not at all worried bout 3d

chevybeatsford:

Do you have a video card in your HTPC? I know all the ATI Radeon HD cards (2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx, 5xxx) will support passing audio out over HDMI. I bought a 4xxx card a little less than a year ago for less than $100 and it has rendered any kind of optical out from my PC useless.

See this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...116&highlight=

for more information

Thanks, Once i got my receiver i got it to work. Dts and DD along with AC3 now through HDMI working fine.

With HDMI changing specs like I change my underwear, how can a receiver ever be future proof. Also how about manufacturers making a receiver that can be upgraded by replacing the HDMI board, since this is the one feature that seems to be changing the quickest. And I'm sure the DSP's on most receivers today can handle the processing with a simple firmware upgrade. This would be future proof and I'm sure your or I would pay for this upgrade.

Yes let's freeze all features as they are right now so no specs ever change and figure out how to firmware upgrade maxed out DSPs. Brilliant.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? I'm pretty sure the DSP's of today's receivers are no where near capacity. Harmon Kardon is taking their 1.3A receivers and upgrading via firmware to 1.4a? Maxed out I think not. And if they are how about removing all those different modes(hall, sport, etc). Who uses these?

Not a hint, the real thing. Your HK, for example, has a limited version of Audyssey Room Correction because of maxed out DSP. Upgraded firmware does not mean use of extra DSP power that was previously lying around unused.

Does any H-K use any Audyssey version?

Or is it limited because of licensing fees? Also HK uses EzSet/EQ II automated setup.

Yeah, and after a year or two they would be out of business...

Manufacturers stay in business by designed and offering newer models with more features and new technology's, they would not stay in business if they constantly spent/wasted engineering time and money in trying to come out with upgrades for older outdated models.

Hate to say it..... but here, here.

Do you think that we, who are into hometheater are updating our receivers every year, just for a new feature? Don't think so. My last receiver which was a Denon 4806 was upgraded to CI capabilities via a new HDMI board offered as an upgrade by Denon lasted me almost 6 years. My current receiver is a Pioneer SC-27 which is certainly not outdated, utilizes both HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 chips and the 1.3 chip is the same one used in the HK receivers. So if HK can do it should could Pioneer.

And just how are you so certain that Pioneer can, did you design it and do you know absolutely for sure that it's 100% possible? Just because the way that H/K designed their products makes it possible so that they can do it, that don't also mean the design of the Pioneer or any other brand is designed that they can do it as well.

Its nothing more than a software upgrade not a hardware. As it stands the Pioneers can be upgrade via software if released.

And do you know this for a fact? No, no you don't, you really have no idea of if or how Pioneer has made their HDMI assessable to any updates or upgrades.

And you know for a fact that it can't?? Please! Would love to mince words with you but its not worth my time or effort. Take a look at Pioneers website, it states Firmware upgradeable. I take this as being upgradeable on all features(audio/video). So instead of arguing with me, why not send off an email to Pioneer requesting the same upgrade that HK is offering their owners.

No, you just naturally assume that there is absolutely no limitations at all on what they can upgrade/update. Well, it don't always work out that way. So again, just because somehow H/K has figured out a way to do it, that don't also mean that Pioneer can do the same! They may very well have some sort or hardware or internal design issue that prevents it.

What he has never understood is these AVRs are made to spec. They don't pay for more DSP power and memory than needed. Most firmware updates are fixes. I have seen Denon, for example, add a feature by deleting another given limited resources.

Correct, the main reason manufacturers even have the option of upgradable firmwares, is primarily so they have a way to issue and implement the fixes for operational bugs. It is NOT there in order to try and future proof a product with the addition of new features!

Now of course, sometimes they can add something new if possible. Sometimes it's for free and sometimes it's only available for a added cost. But in a lot of those cases where such a thing was offered, they also probably had that possible upgrade in it's plans when it was first originally being designed.

And you naturally assume it can't. I take Pioneer for what it says on their wesite about being Firmware upgradeable. And I am pretty sure the chips on the hdmi board are accessible for re programming. Only makes good business sense. If they ever found a software issue that had to be corrected it would be much cheaper to offer a download fix rather than requiring units to be sent in. And that brings me back to the fact that HK and Pioneer use the same HDMI 1.3 chip for transmitting. It's upto Pioneer to satisfy their loyal customer base and do what HK is doing.

NO! I state the FACT that it MAY not be possible for them to do it, and that there could be a few different reasons why! While you on the other hand, continue to just live in your own little dream world and refuse accept anything other than what you wish to hear.

Thought you may need a few definitions:

FACT: something that actually exists; reality; truth
MAY: used to express possibility.

So what is it? Any evidence, info from Pioneer, anyone that it can't be done? Or are you just living in your own little dream world and refuse accept anything other than what you wish to hear.

The FACT is! You refuse to accept the reality that you may indeed NOT get what you want. No matter how long you hold your breath, and not even if you hold it until your face turns blue.

Okay I'll chime in with absolutely no knowledge on the subject and say that...well...it sounds like possibly you both could be correct. But that it would depend on many different things. Is that a fair compromise?