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5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 101

post #3001 of 3041
so who here uses regular hdmi cables and who uses 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for
their blu ray player to receiver to hdtv?

i have not yet watched my first blu ray movie with lossless true dolby digital or
true dts so im wondering if there is a difference at all?


or what exactly do you need the 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for? i think i read you need
1.4 hdmi cables for 3d hdtv but i hate the thought of 3d hdtv so im just wondering
what other reasons you might need 1.3 or 1.4 cables

thanks again
post #3002 of 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROSSINFLORIDA View Post

so who here uses regular hdmi cables and who uses 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for
their blu ray player to receiver to hdtv?

i have not yet watched my first blu ray movie with lossless true dolby digital or
true dts so im wondering if there is a difference at all?

or what exactly do you need the 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for? i think i read you need
1.4 hdmi cables for 3d hdtv but i hate the thought of 3d hdtv so im just wondering
what other reasons you might need 1.3 or 1.4 cables

thanks again

I think virtually all HDMI cables made over the past two or three years have been 1.3 compliant, and probably all the new ones being manufactured today are 1.4 (although there's plenty of 1.3 cable inventory still on the market). An excellent explanation of the different HDMI versions is here on Wikipedia.

Basically, 1.3 was introduced to permit passage of "Deep Color" video and high resolution audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio).

1.4 enables passage of 3D at full HD resolution, as well as a few other features such as Audio Return Channel, and Ethernet over HDMI.
post #3003 of 3041
Let me get this straight once and for all cause so many people say different things and u seem to know what your talking about. I will be as clear as I can. Lets say a movie specifies DTSMA and NOT PCM 5.1. My receiver does not decode that format however my blu ray player does. I can set my blu ray to PCM 7.1 surround, use an HDMI cable and receive DTSMA audio? My receiver will say PCM, but I will essentially be getting DTSMA lossless?
post #3004 of 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV NUT19 View Post

Let me get this straight once and for all cause so many people say different things and u seem to know what your talking about. I will be as clear as I can. Lets say a movie specifies DTSMA and NOT PCM 5.1. My receiver does not decode that format however my blu ray player does. I can set my blu ray to PCM 7.1 surround, use an HDMI cable and receive DTSMA audio? My receiver will say PCM, but I will essentially be getting DTSMA lossless?

Yes.
post #3005 of 3041
as I know virtually nothing, where would the marantz sr 8500 fit in?
and I currently own the yamaha rx-v463. how does that compare? am I better with one or the other?
post #3006 of 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Some coded soundtracks (as opposed to PCM soundtracks) use a core+extension structure. I'll use 7.1 TrueHD as an example. The core of a TrueHD soundtrack is a lossless 2-channel mix, either downmixed from the multi-channel original or a dedicated stereo mix. In any case, it contains all the information in the 7.1 soundtrack, just in fewer channels.

The first extension packet contains the data that, when combined with the core, will give you a lossless 5.1 soundtrack. Again, it contains all the information in the original 7.1 mix, but as a 5.1 version. The second extension packet contains the information that, when combined with the core and first extension packet, yields a lossless copy of the original 7.1 soundtrack. And so on, with more extension packets and more channels.

As a short-hand, you can say that the first extension packet contains 3.1 channels. But what it really contains is the specific data needed to convert the 2-channel core into a 5.1 track. As you can guess, some of the data in the stereo mix will have to be tossed or re-arranged to other channels as part of this conversion to 5.1.

Likewise, Roger used a short-hand to say that the second extension packet contains the last 2 channels of the 7.1 mix. What it really contains is the specific data needed to convert 2 surround channels back to the original 4. It's just easier to refer to these packets in terms of channels: 2-channel core, 3.1-channel first extension packet, etc. But it's really extension data, not actual channels.

This structure makes backwards compatibility easier. If your TV has 2 speakers, then the player only has to decode the core (no need to decode all 7.1 channels and downmix on-the-fly to 2.0). You'll still hear the entire soundtrack. If you have a 5.1 set-up, then your receiver only has to decode the core and first extension packet (no need to decode all 7.1 channels and downmix on-the-fly to 5.1). You'll still hear the entire soundtrack.

Hi sorry to resurrect this thread but what happens if I want to downmix to 3.1 and only use LCR speakers with SW?

great explanation BTW
post #3007 of 3041
Not sure if this is the right forum 4 this but here we go...

With the below link/comparisons I notice that some of the receivers only support the new DTS and DD codecs, with the Denon 3312ci supporting older and newer codecs with a list of the older supported codecs below.. What does this mean and would it cause problems of any kind not having support the older codecs? Would the Denon benefit in any way by supporting older codecs?

DTS
DTS Neo:6
DTS-ES
DTS-HD
DTS-HD Master Audio
Dolby Digital (5.1)
Dolby Digital EX
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby Pro Logic II
Dolby Pro Logic IIX
Dolby TrueHD




http://receivers.findthebest.com/com...amaha-RX-A1000
post #3008 of 3041
I am not sure what you are asking here. Receivers that decode the newer lossless codecs can also decode the older legacy versions such as DD 5.1 and DTS.
post #3009 of 3041
I don't understand why in the link I posted...Certain older Codecs aren't checked???
post #3010 of 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReSultZ View Post

I don't understand why in the link I posted...Certain older Codecs aren't checked???

The link to help you find the best receiver is apparently not the best place to get information about receivers.
post #3011 of 3041
Cnet also shows those receivers not having certain codecs and the Denon having them.
post #3012 of 3041
Please help me i have Onkyo TX NR 818 hdmi (1.4) frorm PC-to in to Receiver and from out hdmi (1.3a) to TV
When i play LPCM 5.1 for input is reed in receiver PCM 2.0 (the movie is 5.1)
for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD is all good no problem !
i use Potplayer
Please help me to fix problem with LPCM 5.1
post #3013 of 3041
i just bought an onkyo 616 and going to run 7.2 my question is can i use my old hk avr65 reciever for any part of the new set up or not?
post #3014 of 3041
dear moderator this old sticky from 2006 needs to be retired and seriously updated.......
post #3015 of 3041
+ 1,000,000

This thread is ready to be let loose and drift away....
post #3016 of 3041
OTOH it gives a good historical account of the evolution of the AVR over this 7 year period. At the expense of those it bothers no end, of course. redface.gif
post #3017 of 3041
Historical curiosity IMO isn't sufficient justification for it to remain a sticky. For at least 3 years now essentially EVERY receiver on the market decodes full HD audio, it's basically now as standardized as Dolby Digital and DTS decoding were 10 years ago.
post #3018 of 3041
Well only opinions count for mod wannabes.
post #3019 of 3041
Thanks for yet another valuable contribution.
post #3020 of 3041
On my own time too!
post #3021 of 3041
To Folks who are following this excellent thread...

could you pl. help me out with finding an A/V processor with HTPC like functionality....

At the following the thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493123/need-a-hybrid-htpc-a-v-processor-xlr-usb-mediaplayer-browser
post #3022 of 3041

This is a great sticky, and a great thread.  It would be awesome if the original post could be updated, but it was so long ago it's possible the poster is gone and it can't be updated.

post #3023 of 3041
You're elected.
post #3024 of 3041
I vote to de-sticky this also,
IMO the Mods here (AVS) really are passive, should be looking at the stickies and making sure they are relevant.

Others, report this post to Mods, let's remember this thread fondly but realize it's time to sunset it for other more relevenat posts for sticky status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaamon View Post

dear moderator this old sticky from 2006 needs to be retired and seriously updated.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

+ 1,000,000

This thread is ready to be let loose and drift away....
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Historical curiosity IMO isn't sufficient justification for it to remain a sticky. For at least 3 years now essentially EVERY receiver on the market decodes full HD audio, it's basically now as standardized as Dolby Digital and DTS decoding were 10 years ago.

Click on the red flag to report this post, select reason other, ask Mod to de-sticky:
post #3025 of 3041
I'm assuming someone has already PM'd the OP, who's still very much active. If not, I suggest you do so. If he doesn't want to fool with it, but gives permission for an update, one of you can copy the original post, edit it and PM it to me. I can replace the original post with the edited version. But since it's the OP's thread, let's start there.

Also, since stickies don't really "stick" anymore, we tend to leave them so long as they're active and still contain useful information.
post #3026 of 3041
The first post is still written in the context of 6+ years ago. If we don't want to unsticky, it's definitely necessary to update because it's just an anachronism otherwise. The legacy info may still be useful for people with older units, but the context needs to updated to reflect the realities of the current landscape.
post #3027 of 3041

As a new member trying to figure things out I will say that I was disappointed to find this thread as the sticky. Future-proofing...and the OP is so old. So I jumped to the last page to see what was currently being discussed, maybe see if there was a more recent informative post to go to instead of the OP...it seems not.

 

So is there such a thing as worrying about future-proofing an AVR today? If so, where do I go to read about that? 

post #3028 of 3041
The only thing that will make receivers future-proof is the end of the world.
post #3029 of 3041
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

The only thing that will make receivers future-proof is the end of the world.

Then I am sorry I wasted my time trying to learn something from this sticky.

post #3030 of 3041
^ That and 7 analog in which most mid-level and lower receivers are dropping...
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