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Grays- Simple one can paints, and one very neutral... - Page 5

post #121 of 602
Awesome work, Smokey! Are you using the 18F2550 based DIY probe?

Garry
post #122 of 602
Munsell has a "Neutral Value Scale" book - 31 steps, N2.0 to 9.5 in 1/4 steps for $55.00:

http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/in...e%20Finish.htm

Main site is here:

http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/p...standards.htm?
post #123 of 602
Thread Starter 
I completely agree Smokey.

I do think that colors exhibiting the typical 'V' curve that's seen with most commercial screens will work extremely well as long as their over all color curve is similar. Having deficiencies in some colors does seem to be beneficial in some circumstances... slight green deficiency can make a screen more universally friendly with skin tones, one with a slight red deficiency could help with incandescent lighting... but the more neutral the color, the better the screen is going to be at reflecting a more even and balanced image.

The hard part about the "V' curve is knowing what is too much of a push, or too much of a deficiency. Keeping a screen color as neutral as possible can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) the amount of shift.

I have a program that allows me to combine up to four colors by adding their RGB values. What I found makes sense, if you mix two non-neutral colors you end up with a third color that is also not neutral. Mixing two neutral colors makes a new neutral color. The more components added, the harder it is to get an even balanced color that is neutral. That theory lends itself to why even more components get added to mixes. They are trying to balance out the newly created color-- but once again adding two non- neutrals just creates a new and different color that still isn't neutral, and the cycle keeps going... I supposed a neutral could be created by mixing two or more colors, but it seems like a very difficult task.

That is where testing and data is meaningful. Without knowing the breakdown of the colors being used there is no way to control the resulting combination. I think a color can be made that looks good, and even performs good, but one mistake, or just a little too much of one component could drastically alter the outcome. Even substituting one brand name for another for just one component in a mix could be enough to completely change the color characteristics of the entire batch.

I have had and experienced a screen that was a gray with a bad push, and one that is extremely neutral, and I am beyond amazed at the difference. It wasn't slight, it was dramatically better. It also allowed me to go darker than I had thought I could or should.
post #124 of 602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post

Munsell has a "Neutral Value Scale" book - 31 steps, N2.0 to 9.5 in 1/4 steps for $55.00:

http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/in...e%20Finish.htm

Main site is here:

http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/p...standards.htm?

Gary how many color steps do you think are reasonable for a screen color? I tend to think N6 would be the absolute darkest gray to be even tried, so how does half steps from N6 up sound?
post #125 of 602
Yeah Prof thats the one.

Heres the related DIY thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=1&pp=30

I recommmend anyone here who is attempting to prove paint applications needs this tool or something similar, there is various avaliable, but the DIY option can't be ignored because we love DIY. Hours of fun with one

Actually this raises an issue with all the DIY applications, especially paint types.

Basically what ever you view with regards to change, being 2 different paint applications, calibration needs to be brought into the picture. My novice attempts have proved to me the point of having an accurate reference otherwise you aligning an unknown with an unknown.

This has been discussed before in various threads about photos and other references. But maybe knowing your basic setup being used as a reference is at a known reference.

Actually any comments about impressions need to be validated with real measurements, the DIY calibration tool would fit that bill.
post #126 of 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

Yeah Prof thats the one.

Heres the related DIY thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=1&pp=30

I recommmend anyone here who is attempting to prove paint applications needs this tool or something similar, there is various avaliable, but the DIY option can't be ignored because we love DIY. Hours of fun with one

Actually this raises an issue with all the DIY applications, especially paint types.

Basically what ever you view with regards to change, being 2 different paint applications, calibration needs to be brought into the picture. My novice attempts have proved to me the point of having an accurate reference otherwise you aligning an unknown with an unknown.

This has been discussed before in various threads about photos and other references. But maybe knowing your basic setup being used as a reference is at a known reference.

Actually any comments about impressions need to be validated with real measurements, the DIY calibration tool would fit that bill.

I think you're absolutely right. Our emphasis here has been to produce a true neutral color, which I believe is very important. But it is still only half of the equation; proper calibration is the other half.

What I'm hearing from your earlier post is this: With any significant push present in the screen, it's impossible to get an accurate calibration (i.e. a change in any color affects all colors to some degree). Is this your findings?

You also mention matching a color to a specific projector. I think this happens by accident on occasion, and could account for the widely varied results folks sometimes get using an identical mix. We think we've found the holy grail, but in fact it's only ideal for one projector/screen combo.

I notice the Spyder2 is also listed as an input device for the freeware program. Will it or the detector you built work to take reflectance readings?

Garry
post #127 of 602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof55 View Post

I think you're absolutely right. Our emphasis here has been to produce a true neutral color, which I believe is very important. But it is still only half of the equation; proper calibration is the other half.

To me calibration is needed whether it's DIY or commercial. That's kind of an assumed but debated area.

I think neutrals make an excellent foundation. They allow accurate color reproduction even from a non-white color, and we can go darker (to a point right now) with less or no skewing and adverse effects. This opens the door to clear coating and texture research. I know the mantra is no texture, but some texture can be good, a lot can be bad. Since we have some very nice neutrals now, once colors are matched with projector lumen specs, the logical next step is working on clear coatings.

I have been saying this and so has Tiddler... the benefit if a clear is more than what people may think. Since it won't have color components it could be used on any screen regardless of the color. When the time comes (which will be shortly) I already have a thread started on this topic so any testing will go in there and the neutral gray testing can remain in here.

I really think we are making some ground. Simple doesn't mean bad, and I think that is a stigma it has gotten.
post #128 of 602
Thread Starter 
Bud what I thought was off topic and many were starting to say frequently was 'mixing'. It was being said repeatedly about what to use to try to mix a neutral... This isn't a mixing thread, and we have neutral grays ranging from Munsell N7 to N9, so to me there is no need to mix anything.

I had tried presenting some of these neutrals earlier and met with resistance and a total lack of acceptance by some. In fact I was actually told by someone there was no interest in this and if I wanted to pursue it to start my own thread, so I did. Then people started posting in here about ideas to mix and create a neutral gray, and it blew my mind because we have them... several of them and in many shades. It just seemed that the mind set was that the only way to get a neutral gray was to mix and create one, and mainly people weren't accepting these because they aren't a 'mix'. Like I said in an earlier post, nothing so far seemed to be neutral and I think it is a very difficult task to try to mix two or more non-neutral colors and expect to get a neutral result.

Quote:


I guess what I'm asking is, am I welcomed to post comments pertaining to non-standard and additives to these paints to make them more neutral gray compliant?

I'm not sure I understand you on this one... you want to add something to Gray Screen or some of the other grays listed to make them more neutral? Everything I have been presenting and researching in this thread has been compliant with the Munsell system of neutral grays so I am not sure what you are saying or asking here. These are neutral grays, nothing needs to be added to any of the GTI paints, or the Munsell matches identified. I guess to answer your question, since I have identified some Munsell matches that are neutral I don't see a need to add anything to them or turn this into a mixing thread.

With all due respect bud this sounds like it should have been a PM.
post #129 of 602
Actually, I'm OT now with my ramblings about calibration. We need a new thread for that, so how about starting one, Smokey? I'd love to see some more info on your new measurement system.

The A Simple Screen Paint Solution thread is the best place for neutral gray mix discussion.

And this thread needs some more screenshots.

Between premixed neutrals, DIY neutrals, laminates, and calibration, we have the ability to put together some fairly simple screen solutions that will work great for anyone, with no guesswork!

Garry
post #130 of 602
Thread Starter 
Bud you're more than welcome to post in here... I just don't think we need to try to mix neutrals when we have them is all. Mixing adds all kinds of variables.

Right now the topic seems to be about the benefits of neutrals.
post #131 of 602
Actually whilst I was in the build and research stage of this little probe I had an ilumination about the grey shade required for a starting point.

The light at the black point and lower(<16 black) on any of our projectors is known as light bleed. Ths light is actually quite strong and very measurable with a LUX meter. This is the issue we might need to attend to before thinking about ambient light. My thinking is to look at how much light there is at below black, this will be different for everyone and with that figure work out how grey you would need to absord this light that is not wanted.

My projector has 25lux at the reference point of black which is known as 00IRE in the grey scale. At white(100IRE) of the grey scale I have 677lux. Throughout this scale (although I'm guessing this point) I assume that I have this extra 25lux that exists as light bleed.

So my starting point would be a surface that absorbs the 25lux, or as much of it as possible that doesn't kill the white level point.

Looking at some grey neutrals avaliable to me and working with the 25lux as a value.
Black(00IRE)=25 lux
N9 229 rv82=20.5 lux
N8 202 rv65=16.25 lux
N7 175 rv51=12.75 lux
N6 149 rv36=9 lux

Remember light works in log and is non linear. Like sound every drop in 3db volume is percieved as a halving of volume to us, luminance works the same way.
Dropping to N7 may infact be too much for your projector to give you a bright picture anymore because it would absorb 49% of the whole, 677 lux would be 345.27 lux at white. As previous experiments have shown with enough spare lux one can use black as the reflected surface, ie if i could get 650lux returning from the reflection on a black surface I would see a bright picture with deep blacks.
Obviously not possible unless my screen was 1 foot in size.

Leaves us around N9 229~N8 202 for your low lum projector and for any light cannons you could go down to N7 175.
All depends on you projector spec, lum output, screen size, light bleed value and finially any ambient light.




Prof, with enough head room in the projector adjustments you could tweak out a projector/screen calibration of a color push. But frankly most don't have enough range before they start clipping. You might cope with some of the grey scale, but the top and bottom would/could clip. I have heard comments about some of the mixes and skin tones but then colors seeeming right in other areas. This means the screen is doing odd things. pushing or pulling points of color balance will do odd things in other areas. Bit like pushing in on a balloon.

I am new and a complete novice at this calibration thing, so far I have found you have to balance a number of different aspects not just RGB balance.

The probe s that work with the HCFR software.
DIY HCFR probe(designed too)
DTP94
spyder2 ( I have at hand(borrowed) a Spyer2pro and this so far has not worked because of different dll files)

It works by taking light readings, no matter what the source. SO the light source is an issue. You can actually get the DIY sensor as a mounted kit for measuring test cards, surfaces etc. Around about $90us. Not sure about the software, haven't looked into it.
The DIY sensors have an array of clear, red, green and blue photo receivers and is tiny. The spyder and DTP94 use an array of one type of detectors with filters.
There is arguments about which is more accurate. All are accurate enough for us.
Although the DIY really needs an IR filter to eliminate interference, when that is done it appears to have an edge on the other types of probes.
post #132 of 602
Hey Bill,
After some reading here I thought I would give the True Value Winter Mountain a try so I bought a gallon today. I'll see if I can get around to painting it tomorrow. I also see the logic, thinking that a neutral screen might be the way to go. Hell it is only paint. I now think I have enough cans of gray to paint a battleship.
From your posts on page 1 it looks like GS is 199 203 203 and WM being a little more neutral at 200 201 201.
I did paint a test strip with 3 paints I have, SS, my SS mix and WM, to see what they looked like next to each other.
My SS mix was the lightest gray between the 3, straight SS and WM are pretty close match to each other but you can defiantly see there is a difference.
The WM mix uses the same colors as SS but I think the quantities are different.

Lamp Blk 22
Raw Umber 24
Red 2

I hope it doesn't have the same color shift as SS.


If you want to give it a try I can send you some or maybe we can trade for some GS.
Now lets see some with poly top coats.

Jon
post #133 of 602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by demon16v View Post

Hey Bill,
After some reading here I thought I would give the True Value Winter Mountain a try so I bought a gallon today. I'll see if I can get around to painting it tomorrow. I also see the logic, thinking that a neutral screen might be the way to go. Hell it is only paint. I now think I have enough cans of gray to paint a battleship.
From your posts on page 1 it looks like GS is 199 203 203 and WM being a little more neutral at 200 201 201.
I did paint a test strip with 3 paints I have, SS, my SS mix and WM, to see what they looked like next to each other.
My SS mix was the lightest gray between the 3, straight SS and WM are pretty close match to each other but you can defiantly see there is a difference.
The WM mix uses the same colors as SS but I think the quantities are different.

Lamp Blk 22
Raw Umber 24
Red 2

I hope it doesn't have the same color shift as SS.


If you want to give it a try I can send you some or maybe we can trade for some GS.
Now lets see some with poly top coats.

Jon

The reason I wanted to try Gray Screen over Winter Mountain is that I wanted to check out the matte finish paint that Sherwin Williams has. Seeing that commercial screens come in a matte finish, I wanted to check out a matte over a flat. There is a True Value in my home town less than three minutes away, so that definitely would have been easier. I also wanted to try something a little darker than SS and both of these are slightly darker, but not much.

Trust me on this statement, you are not going to have the shift like you did with SS. (At least not with Gray Screen, we'll all soon find out about Winter Mountain) I had a full size SS screen so I know what that shift looks like and how hard it is to compensate for. You can see the color difference very clear in the swatch below. (If Gray Screen looks greenish to you, that's not a color push, that is a what gray actually looks like-- kinda ugly!)


The only thing you may have some trouble with is with real dark shadow detail. If you have several gama settings or light settings available on your projector you'll be able to get it calibrated. Other than that, to me it is very nice color.

Thanks for grabbing some Winter Mountain. It'll be nice to get two reviews going. I know you're thorough and honest in your writeups so this will be a nice and fair/unbiased report I'm sure. Give it a day or two to fully dry and then give us your assesment. Then try some poly and see what that does. I am going to be putting some poly up soon too just to see what it does.
post #134 of 602
Thread Starter 
I did a recalibration and reshot some scenes. My camera is set to Auto with the exception of white balance, I set that to the natural light setting. Auto White balance made everything come out blue and the screen definitely did not have a blue hue to it.

First is the Columbia Logo, I just like the colors and how rich they look.


Sin City... I loved the way Rodriguez filmed this movie.


...Goldie (Keep in mind this is a darker gray-- you can still make out details like wisps of hair.)


Charlies Angles Full Throttle. This is a horrible movie, but when McG didn't over saturate everything there was some nice eye candy. I got this as part of a double disc along with Into the Blue... I'll be taking some shots from that movie this afternoon.


Conan



Akira
post #135 of 602
Thread Starter 
The Fifth Element




The Jump scene


Jump scene from the door to the hallway


Jump scene approximately 45 degrees off angle from the adjacent living room. There is no major viewing drop off that I can tell.



I'll be taking some more shots and a different variety of movies to get a feel for differnt scenes and colors as well as some animated shots. In an earlier post I did a couple shots from T2 and one from a low quality $4.88 DVD called Only You, so I am trying to put up a mixture of things.

I will also put up some comparison shots soon.
post #136 of 602
Bill:

Great work.

Thank you
post #137 of 602
Hey Bill

Please stop posting pics -- your making me jealous! I wont be able to get this paint up fast enough. Hopefully I will be at that stage during my Christmas break.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Regards
Patrick
post #138 of 602
Thread Starter 
Patrick keep in mind my projector is a 6 and 1/2 year old factor refurbished business projector, not a projector specifically made for HT. I have issues with it, like jaggies with video, some color blur during action scenes and things like that... but if my pj can look this nice with this screen, then I am slobbering over the idea of next March when I get my bonus and upgrade to a full HT projector.

I just spent six hours going through various DVDs and taking screen shots. (I'll have those up soon when I can go through all of the pics and sort them) It is a lot more work doing screenies than people think Sometimes I think it's faster and easy to make the screen than backing up its performance.

I honestly think that within the next two years we will be seeing live video screenies instead of still shots. Then people will be able to see the actual performance of the screens. I see so many things that just do not come out on picture the way they look on the screen. I tend to compare my projector to my 36 inch Toshiba, and right now I like the projector better for movies. It is bright and vibrant, but it is more film like, and to me as a movie buff I love that. I have to give the edge to the CRT, the colors are better and much more vivid, but compared to film and my current screen, to me they look over saturated and loud. HT means different things to different people. Some want a HUGE TV... super bright, over saturated... me... I love movies. I do want to see my colors right and the images bright, but I also want them to look like a movie and not a video. Does that make sense and hit home with anyone else?

Who knows though, they are playing with laser projector technology now, and when that comes out we could project an image on a cinder block and it would look good. I don't shun those days though, I look forward to them. Think of the exciting things that we can do when that day comes... as well as the people that have older projectors, DIY keeps getting better and better and is a long cry from the days of bed sheets and window blinds. We've actually reached the performance of mid to high end screen with the advanced options, and the data is showing that the simple methods are far exceeding the entry to mid level commercial screens.
post #139 of 602
Thread Starter 
Some more SW 7071 Gray Screen screenies to come (probably more than you want )
post #140 of 602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Bill:

Great work.

Thank you

neekos the Fifth Element shots are pretty much a staple of showing screenies, just like the animated flicks (animated movies look awesome even in adverse conditions, so right now I am trying to show a variety of live action images)

The first image, my camera didn't/couldn't pick it up, but during the bone knitting sequence, on screen you can see each line that is 'knitted'. That's my camera more than the screen. I am also hoping to get another projector and when I do I can start showing some comparisons between good, but older and none HT projectors as compared to projectors mades specifically for HT. I am also looking for a camera that is better for screenies. I like my camera for everything else, but for dark lighting like screen shots, it really sucks.
post #141 of 602
Argh,

I really want to go with one of the N8 grays since I can get True Value paint for like 8 bucks, but I'm concerned that my projector won't be up to the task (hd70, 1000 lumen). The N9 Sherwin Williams "Soothing White" is my only other real option at this point at 35 bucks, but I'm trying to get through this with the darkest screen my projector can handle (and cost is a factor too!).

I'm finishing up the wall and getting it suited for paint; any thoughts wbassett? You had said before that you thought the screen was probably too dark for my specs, but then Smokey Joe I believe chimed in n8 might be doable with low lumen projs, but n7 would need a light cannon.

I'm sitting on the fence, don't want to have to paint twice so I'm stuck with whichever I choose.
post #142 of 602
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dja1ien View Post

Argh,

I really want to go with one of the N8 grays since I can get True Value paint for like 8 bucks, but I'm concerned that my projector won't be up to the task (hd70, 1000 lumen). The N9 Sherwin Williams "Soothing White" is my only other real option at this point at 35 bucks, but I'm trying to get through this with the darkest screen my projector can handle (and cost is a factor too!).

I'm finishing up the wall and getting it suited for paint; any thoughts wbassett? You had said before that you thought the screen was probably too dark for my specs, but then Smokey Joe I believe chimed in n8 might be doable with low lumen projs, but n7 would need a light cannon.

I'm sitting on the fence, don't want to have to paint twice so I'm stuck with whichever I choose.

I know N9 would work for you, my guess is a lot of the mixes in here are in that shade range. Munsell N8 isn't really all that dark. This is what the color looks like up on the wall. It's a little darker than Silver Screen, but I think the neutral levels lets a projector go a little darker. I recommended the N9 to be on the safe side, but if you know of people using SS that have the same projector that you have then I would say you could handle Gray Screen.
post #143 of 602
Thread Starter 
Okay here are some more day shots. I started taking these around 1:30PM. Being winter I lose light early now and that time of day has the same amount of light in the room that I normally have during the summer around 3:00PM.

The room is very bright right now, and with sunlight not incandescent lighting. This is where most screens really bite the dust, and performance for Gray Screen did take a huge hit with this amount of sun pouring in.

Here is the Warner Brother's logo showing the window next to the screen and how bright it is right when this was taken.


From the adjacent living room showing one window of the bay window to the other side of the screen.


The DVD main menu


The boys on their way to Vegas...


From the hall showing the window again and the amount of room light.


The boys all dressed up and ready to roll.


Same shot but from the adjacent living room.


I ended up getting called for a work problem and had to stop taking screen shots for about an hour. It was probably a little after 3:00PM when I resumed. The room was starting to get dark, more the gray over cast look of early evening. The sun had moved and wasn't lighting the room as brightly as before. The screen started performing much better.

Costner in action.


Conster's 45s


Same shot but from the adjacent living room. These are the windows I have the window film on and they do help, but this will give an idea of the light level. I am thinking about putting some film on the outside of the window too. That should cut the light down so that around noon it will be this level.


I think these shots show full daylight performance (or lack of) very well. This isn't an ambient light screen, and I never said it was, but it does perform respectfully for such a simple method. It is definitely watchable with the light levels when I first started, but honestly even after I resumed screen shots, to me I would never watch a movie in that bright of conditions. On weekends during the day, if I watch a movie I normally watch it on the 27" LCD HDTV in the bedroom. With a little light control and using BOC as actual drape liners and not as a screen this would be quite usable during the day for anyone interested in a simple and relatively inexpensive screen application.
post #144 of 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post

neekos the Fifth Element shots are pretty much a staple of showing screenies, just like the animated flicks (animated movies look awesome even in adverse conditions, so right now I am trying to show a variety of live action images)

The first image, my camera didn't/couldn't pick it up, but during the bone knitting sequence, on screen you can see each line that is 'knitted'. That's my camera more than the screen. I am also hoping to get another projector and when I do I can start showing some comparisons between good, but older and none HT projectors as compared to projectors mades specifically for HT. I am also looking for a camera that is better for screenies. I like my camera for everything else, but for dark lighting like screen shots, it really sucks.


Bill :

I picked up some SW 7071 in flat finish and am going to try painting BOC with some Minwax poly (25%).

Thanks for introducing us the the 7071. It looks very neutral from a gray point of view.
post #145 of 602
Thread Starter 
Did you get the flat or matte finish?
post #146 of 602
Thread Starter 
It got late last night and I didn't have time to put these up. Earlier were some daytime shots, here are some evening shots. These were taken around 4:30-5:00 PM.

Top Gun


Top Gun the VBall game... my wife loves this scene so I figured why not take a few shots for any of the gals out there, they like eye candy too =]


Incase anyone wants to know, this is Rick Rossovich. He's probably wondering what happened to his career too! But at least he's immortalized in a scene I think every women back in '86 saw over and over again...


...and his Vball partner and pilot, a little know actor at the time by the name of Val Kilmer...


Top Gun Graduation... I will get around to some comparison shots with other material, but I saw these and wanted to put them up. White is definitely white which is still amazing me seeing this is a darker gray.


From the hall...


Off center from the adjacent living room...


Like I said I know everyone wants comparison shots and they are coming. Even without something to compare this screen to directly in person, there is no question that whites are white. I don't see any muddy look to them.

The only problem I am seeing, and I said I would be honest and the first person to report any issues, is reds seem to run a little on the purple side, but only in certain scenes. I'll play with more calibration, I think the limitations of my projector are more to blame than the paint. The color bar adjustment looks good, but the Ferarri Enzo in Charlies Angels Full Throttle looked off in a couple of scenes. At first I thought it was the strange way McG made this movie-- he was always changing film stock and completely over saturating the colors.

Then I noticed in Sin City Dwight's convertable looked a little off, but not as bad as the Enzo. Both of these movies are filmed with intentional color shifts and I haven't really seen this with any other movie yet. That is why I am leaning towards my projector more than the screen. Gray Screen does not have any decernable color push, although it is a few points deficent in red, it's not enough to cause any wild shifting.

I'll do some more checking on things and maybe next weekend if I have time I'll try a poly coating and see what that does. Worse case scenario I'll just throw up some more GS if it doesn't look good, but I'm not expecting that to happen.
post #147 of 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post

Top Gun Graduation... I will get around to some comparison shots with other material, but I saw these and wanted to put them up. White is definitely white which is still amazing me seeing this is a darker gray.

You summed it up very well in just one sentence.
post #148 of 602
Thread Starter 
Last set for now

The reason I took so many was so I can try to show a wide variety of material. I'm trying to show light scenes as well as dark scenes along with scenes with a lot of color.

The Columbia logo shot I put up earlier still makes me smile. For a business projector I was very pleased with it's performance. The logo really is that deep and rich in it's colors.

Here's a couple from Star Wars, a James Bond flick (from the opening scene in Tomorrow Never Dies, the best Bond opening teaser ever), and one from Into the Blue.
I started getting tired so I only grabbed a few shots even though there are so many good ones to chose from. Star Wars and Into the Blue are definitely full of eye candy and colorful scenes. My brother suggested some Bond ones so I threw in TND.


Star Wars Revenge of the Sith:
The star cruiser is dark on the screen too, but I can make out much more detail than what is picked up by the camera.




One from Into the Blue


Same scene but off center and from the adjacent living room.


The name is Bond, James Bond... Like I said, these are from the best opening sequence of any Bond flick to date.

Brosnan as Bond and getting ready to take out the weapons bazaar.


Bond doing what Bond does best, well maybe second best...


England's Top Gun...
post #149 of 602
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post

Did you get the flat or matte finish?


I got the flat as I could not see getting a whole gallon when all I needed was a quart. For some reason, SW only sells the 7071 in a gallons for the matte finish.
post #150 of 602
ps.

Nice shots !
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