Breakthrough in ambient light rejecting screen

Edit 11-01-06
(This thread was started to show a factual scientific aspect of screen design involving projecting to a totally black screen surface. I crafted this post as a bit of a tease and was actually unaware that it would be viewed on Halloween day 2006. My intention was to bring a little fun into the science here and stimulate some thinking. Most viewing it enjoyed the process but some didn't. It has been brought to my attention some newcomers could read this and attempt this as a real world solution to building a screen. That's not the intent of the thread, the intent is to illustrate the concept of a neutral gray being used as a screen surface taken to an extreme limit. If you are new and want to learn more about neutral gray painted screens look to the links in my signature at the bottom of this post.)
(((( Like Myth Busters I must post this warning.. Don't Try This At Home!!!!))))



As many of you know I seldom start a new thread unless it's a topic I believe has not been covered before. This is such a thread I believe.

I finished a prototype screen tonight and its ambient light performance is so superior to anything I have seen to date I had to take some screen shots and post them for the group to view. Please excuse the picture quality they were taken soon after completing the screen and I just threw in a couple DVD's and looked for screen shots that had good light dark comparisons.

First let me explain the lighting conditions in my room for these shots. All room lights were on that's a total of (8) 60 watt ceiling flood lights the closest 2 being 4 foot from the screen. in addition I added (2) 100 watt bare bulbs each side of the screen about 3 feet in front of the screen and 2 feet to the sides. The ceiling is a gloss white pegboard material.

The pictures were taken hand held and with cam set to auto, flash off. The screen was larger than the image and the black masking you see top and bottom was the DLP projector self masking. The projector is my Sharp XR10X running in echo mode.

I post these photos to show the deep black levels that are possible with this new DIY screen under the most severe ambient conditions I have ever subjected a screen shoot to. Notice while keeping these rich dark blacks I'm able to maintain colors fairly good and even whites are not to far off.

I just finished watching a rather dark chapter from the movie King Kong and although the light level was not that of midday sun outside it was almost that bright and the images maintained a good contrast ratio.

Below are the screen shots. Please keep in mind the extreme ambient light levels when critiquing them.

I do have some pictures of the screen under room lights with projector off if anyone would like to see them, or details on how you can construct a similar screen.

Click thumbnail for full size image.....

Thanks guys it's really pretty amazing sitting here watching this screen with so much light on. I'm guessing it's at least as bright as my computer monitor maybe brighter. And the room lights seem to have almost no effect on the image. When I shut them all off a while ago. It didn't seem to change the picture too much. It gets about maybe 5% to 10% brighter than what you see in the photos.

BoomerBrian
I'll post some more pictures tomorrow after all the light bending alchemists have a chance to weigh in.

I have had a few PM's wanting more info also.

That's a good one about the light bulbs. But I can tell you they were all screwed in and fully powered throwing lots of light. I didn't think to put a 1.0 gain white sample in the picture for reference, but I should have guessed you guys would want to see that in the picture seeing as how that's something I always ask for in screen shots. I'm at work now so to do that comparison I'll have to wait until tonight.

I have had quite a few PM's and I have replied to them with a few clues so I might as well clue the other 200 that have read the post likewise.

First off the screen solution is a simple one layer solution that doesn't involve the addition of any poly. The skill level in applying it on a scale of one to ten is about a one. It can be copied easily by anyone with items off the shelf from Michel's

Everything I posted above is the full truth and the black boarders you see in the above thumbnails are being projected by my DLP against the exact same screen surface you see the images on and are at the same time being illuminated by the 500 plus watts of lights I had turned on.

I cant say the cam caught exactly what my eyes saw but I would guess the margin of error between what my eyes see and the screen shots to be less than 5 or 10%.

Oh ya it's not April first so you are safe there. And it's purely by luck today is trick or treat. No trick or treat here.

I'll try and get the other pictures posted sometime today MM. But you of all members here I thought would understand my desire to dangle the carrot a little first. This along with me showing a new scientific approach to screen building, I'm trying to put some fun back in DIY.

Keep the guesses coming. I'll see if I can find where I put them other dang photos now..

BoomerBrian

I missed your questions when I made my last post. So I'll answer now.

First off I will not sell or market this idea in anyway. Anyone that wants to use it is more than welcome.

The way the screen works is even though there is a lot of ambient in the room the black you see in the borders is because the screen material is sucking that ambient light up and not reflecting it back as it does the projected light.

And once again not a trick or treat.

MM

I don't plan on having iconic status placed on me due to this thread, but it may be a thread that some will remember for a while to come.

You are correct in your assumption that many projectors may be under powered to get the results I'm seeing on my screen.

You are also correct that the images have a soft focus to them, as I have seen in the ones you mentioned of yours also from time to time.
The new digital cams do a good job of focusing by using some hard feature on the intended subject to focus on. One of the draw backs of these modern surfaces we are producing is lack of any detail to focus on. Almost like taking a picture of fog or something. I do believe I know the reason mine are slightly off and I think I have a way to photograph them again and get a sharper image. Unlike BFLF I'm pretty sure my image is coming off just the very outer most surface of the screen.

And I guess you are right there is a element of Treatin to this thread.

Wbassett

Trust me when I say this thread is truthful and intended to be educational. It's purely by accident it comes at a time when so many people are loosing track of the real meaning and fun of DIY here. Don't read any subliminal messages into anything ok.

Those that have known me for anytime here know I have no ax to grind and have always tried to be a stabilizing force here.

If you want to think of my opening post in a different light then think of it as a puzzle to be solved if you are so inclined to think about things like that. We all learn by letting our minds go outside the box from time to time. That's what I did and that's what I'm posting about.

This is not a reality TV show called DIY Survivor where we vote someone off the island each week. Rather we should be opening it up to all and let our minds expand in whatever direction they want to take.

On a similar note I'm really surprised at how many PM's I have got from new posters and very low posters, some even asking for additional clues.

I think I know how Orson Wells must have felt the day after they broadcast the War of the worlds show across New Jersey. And his was purely fiction.

If you are dragging your DIY screen out into the back yard to set it ablaze hold off OK!
Don't blow away all your data files from your pc just yet OK!

I think one of the above posters is right, iconic status is more than a guy can handle.

I have started maybe 4 threads during the year I have been here, and I thought I had established myself as a friend to the group and from my past posts and helpful nature this wouldn't be seen as a conspiracy theory.

I'm sorry if anyone ran for the hills, gun in hand to kill any of them aliens.

Rabbi7

Nice try but no cigar.

I haven't thought about a prize yet. Maybe that's what is needed everyone loves prizes.

How about I package my prototype screen and send it to the winner! I'll even autograph it. How's that for a prize?

By the way the aluminum foil screen I made looked really horrible.

I haven't measured the gain on this screen but I'm 100% positive it's much, much lower than a 3.0 gain.

My projector is ceiling mounted in the basement, total light control room so the best I can do now is lots of incandescent lights.

And I do agree sunlight is the big killer of an image. I have posted many times about how we perceive brightness of light with our eyes, and how easy it is to fool ourselves by comparing intensity of light we see without taking into account that our eyes have variable apertures. It's not that sunlight is some different type of light as much as we could be seeing what we view as twice the brightness of light when going from indoors to outdoors and in reality it could be 50 times as bright. That's our eyes doing what they were intended to do. Trying to make us see a constant brightness as best they can.

I'm guessing biglyle didn't like the movie The Da Vinci Code very much.

But I guess you are right no one reading this really wants to think about ambient light rejection and try and figure out the pictures I offered last night and in doing so gain insight into concepts surrounding bad light rejection while allowing good light to return to the viewer.

Until I tried making this screen for myself I had no idea if this idea would work or not.

But part of the reason I posted it in this fashion was because I have posted this very same thought at least 10 times in other threads on the topic of ambient rejection and all but a few even paid slight attention. I have seen hundreds of threads started asking the same basic questions over and over. I thought why not start a thread about a single concept. And to gain a little interest in that concept for the sake of discussion and to do so show some results but let the viewers think about the idea a little before they know what it is.

But I guess no one is interested in that approach.

One thing I don't remember saying this was a mix????

Just my luck

The only one that got the intent of the thread was a Rabbi and a MississippiMan.

That reminds me of a joke a Cajun and a Rabbi go into a bar. Ok it's my thread and I'm getting off topic.

No paint involved. But it could have been just as easily been paint. One can 3 coats would have done it.