to all vinyl guru's

Scuffs are scratches which may be deep enough to be in the grooves or ever so slight they're nothing more than a general dullness that's visual and not audible resulting from normal use. For vinyl to scuff doesn't have to be much when you consider that vinyl is pliable whose propensity to marring depends on temperature and something so simple as inserting/removing it from a sleeve. It depends on how optimistic you are and of course the price. If the buyer has taken careful photographs you perhaps can get a feel for how much it's been played or handled.

I agree with Chu...If this is an expensive and rare LP you might ask the seller to "play grade" it for you. That means he would play it on some reasonable system and then declare whether the "scuffs" were audible or "do not effect play".

You know tzucc, even if there are audible issues with it when played on your rig, you do have some options you can pursue if the recording is of particular intereste to you. You could for example record the vinyl through a sound card and then use software to clean up any ticks, pops and modest problems. Even surface noise. If you've never done so, try it on something you've got laying around and compare the two copies. I believe you'll find they're incredibly close with respect to each other.

Regarding your original question, in my experience, there is always a risk involved with buying vinyl. Even if you can inspect the vinyl in person, you can never tell for certain if a record will play without surface noise. I've bought many records with scuffs and even what appear to be scratches which play perfectly. And I've also bought many records which look absolutely perfect that play with terrible surface noise. Even new, sealed LP's will sometimes have problems due to poor quality pressings.

With EBAY, the best you can do is ask the seller if they have play graded and what their return policy is.
Good luck,

Agreed... an improperly aligned cartridge or the wrong stylus cut can damage the groove with no visible signs. In the old days there was a stylus-cut, Shibata, I believe for Quadraphonic record which was prone to deteriorate LP grooves...

Speaking of used analog . . . Is it risky buying used phono cartridges?

Buy something inexpensive tzucc and try it. This way you won't have to suspect. Consider that each time you play your vinyl you lose information due to the nature of the beast. Besides, think of how cool it would be to transfer your vinyl to something portable like your iPod or your car

I hope you don't take any offense, but my experience has been that any loss of information is negligible. I have records which I bought as a child in the 1960's which were played on mediocre turntables over and over and they still sound very good. And I'm talking about very cheap "record players", not Hi-Fi equipment. With records that were only played on a good TT, I haven't noticed any loss in sound quality or increase in surface noise (and I am very picky about sound quality and surface noise).

This question has been brought up in both AudioAsylum and SteveHoffman forums and the general consensus was that if you only use a properly setup cartridge and clean your records they should suffer very little deterioration. I'm not saying that there is no deterioration at all or that massive repeated playings won't eventually show some problems. But on a practical level, it's not nearly as much of a problem as is popularly thought.

If you've got a cheap, poorly aligned, groove cruncher laying around, examine the digitized version of the LP when it's new and then after a number of plays. For that matter, examine it using a decent setup. While it may be slight, or not, digitizing a vinyl collection is the equivalent of backing up those rare and perhaps hard to replace records for safe keeping. Now if one uses a cartridge and after a time examines it under a microscope, one will find that the stylus has worn. It didn't wear by not taking some vinyl information along with it. If you don't want to do it, don't. If you do, you're not harming anybody and apart from time, the cost is fairly neglible.

i rather go with a new mediocre mc cartridge than a high end used mc cartridge

it is not the cost of cartridge but a worn out stylus may inflict more damage to precious records

Vinyl doesn't wear out a diamond needle. The older sapphire ones did wear out after maybe 100 plays, but technically unless you're a DJ that does backcueing or scratching, a diamond one should be good for many years of moderate yearly playing.

While diamond may be the hardest material, that doesn't mean it's impervious to wear. Microscopic examinations has illustrated that diamond indeed does wear down over time. If it wears, then what it's in contact with also wears and becomes deformed over time. Consider that the velocities and forces in the grooves is substantial resulting in localized temperatures of several hundred degrees. I mean if something trivial like inserting and reinserting a record into a sleeve causes marring, even if you've never seen the photographs of needles, is it that hard to imagine what happens to the grooves? Consider for a moment that vinyl is not a pure polymeric material. It contains additives, extenders, modifiers, both organic and inorganic that impart usuability and longevity. Hell, doesn't your razor wear simply from shaving? What's the psi generated when a 100 lb model walks on a floor with stiletto heels?

tzucc, I can't force you to try it only suggest that it's well within your abilities and capabilities and apart from time, the cost to you is quite neglible. The benefits are several - the knowledge of how to do it, the ability to 'rip' your vinyl collection and take it wherever you go, providing unlimited copies of your vinyl, archiving, a deeper insight into what makes vinyl different from CD, the ability to 'repair' what may've been a damaged and precious recording, and so forth. By no stretch of the imagination does this mean that your digitized copy will sound the same as vinyl played on another system with a different tonearm and cartridge. It means it'll be incredibly damned close if not indistinguishable from what your played on your system. In fact, you could transfer it to your iPod and play that while you tell your friends you're actually spinning a tune and I doubt they'd know what was what.

I BS you not tzucc. The forces and temporal temperatures are surprising to many. The upside, if you want to call it that, is that there are particular reasons why vinyl sounds different and perhaps better to some compared to digital. If, for whatever reason, you've got vinyl that's absolutely unique and maybe vintage and detest the CD version, you've got an option. Besides tzucc...men like doing stuff. We're men damn it!

Can you provide scientific evidence of that?

Actually, I'll take his word on it.

I'm in the market for a good, but not outlandish priced phono cartridge. Have an old dynavector diamond, had a grado signature and a sure v15 before that. What is out there that is a good cartridge without being $300+ . I see a grado red and silver and a sure and an audio technica that look decent but don't have the latest info on cartridges. I can go moving coil or moving magnet. Drop me an email at william.shenefelt@verizon.net

Perhaps if you also mentioned your tone arm, its weight or something, it might be helpful in suggesting cartridges with compliances that would be suitable.

The table is a SOTA. The Arm is a unipivot. It had two different arms. They attach back at the pivot section. One is heavy Just heavier than the other not really heavy) and the other super light. There are two different counterweights, one for each arm. I think any cartridge that likes a unipivot arm would bu suitable. I do prefer the heavier arm for ease of cueng and feel and have used it with both the old Dynavector Diamond and the Grado Signature. Not sure a "Sure" with brush would be happy on a unipivot so it may be out.

Forgot. I have a PS audio moving coil preamp and also the standard one in my Apt Holman preamp.

Surface noise and apparent wear can be cartridge related. Some years ago I replaced a respectable ($x00) cartridge with another of a different make and noticed that surface noise and some pops and ticks were reduced.

I have been cleaning and Last treating all new records for many, many years. I have LPs played over 50 times that look and sound like new. Some of my records look great but have a lot of surface noise. Others look like something retrieved from a trash dump and sound great.

Using a powerful stereo microscope I once looked at a stylus on one of my cartridges that had years and many hundred hours of playing. It did not have any visible wear. It was indistinguishable from a new cartridge.

tzucc,

"Buy more Mo-Fi Vinyl"