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Official MK - Miller & Kreisel Thread?!? - Page 9

post #241 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

My first choice were Paradigm Reference Studio 20's. I was convinced to purchase a pair of MK B1600's around cost from a retailer going out of business once I heard them. Since the other retailer didn't have the 20's to demo, I bought the B1600's instead as I have to trust my ears.

Sure would have liked to listen to the 20's though for a fair comparison. Anyone out there own both and can give me a comparison?

Interesting, Studio 20s are something I put on my short list. I have not heard them yet though. We'll see if the list gets shorter or longer.
post #242 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnmarino13 View Post

2 MK subs went bad. The exact reason? I don't know, I'm not an MK engineer.

However, the result of both were the same,

1) It lost it's "heart" it had no punch
2) Both had no ability to adjust the volume. It was on or off. On the volume knob, the second you moved it slightly from the lowest (off) position, it was at full volume. Mind you it still played but it did not perform like it used to.

I called MK and sent in the crossovers only. They promptly fixed them and shipped them back.

Hello all. My MX-5000 MKII is doing this as well. Does anyone know of a reputable repair service that would be able to fix these? I have had this sub for about 8 years, and I hate to see it like this.
post #243 of 3633
Has anyone ever worked with these guys with repairs?


speakerdoctor
post #244 of 3633
I own 5 M&K subwoofers, 4 of which are in my main theater. I decided to repair my circa de 1990 MX-100 (since upgraded to an MX-200). The back of the sub became very hot to the touch even when on standby. The engineer at M&K had me remove the amp plate and take pictures of the power supply. The power supply was discolored as it looked brownish in color. The engineer told me the power supply was shot. I was told that the new power supply was the last part to be mailed out of M&K the day they closed down. A big thank you to the engineer that was so helpful to me over the years. A great company and I was very sad to see them go. Subsequently to the arrival of the part and learning of M&Ks demise, I asked the engineer if I should leave my subs off when not in use to extened the life of the power supply. His response "It is a very good idea to either unplug the subs or switch them off if they have an off switch when not in use. This will eliminate the constant heat the power supplies are exposed to and reduce the risk of failure. As the above poster mentioned a good surge protector is a must and preferably not MOV based ie. use series mode from Brick Wall, Furman...Hope this info is helful.
As the above poster re: the Madisound tweeter part info has done, it is very important for us to share with eachother any repair info that we obtain. ie. knowledgeable repair techs tel#, name, woofer/tweeter part #s supply source, driver surround repair source....... I am having de ja vu of when the theater division of Altec Lansing folded. As I recall when Altec closed shop an ex-engineer opened up a small repair center. Maybe a similar thing will happen with M&K repairs?
post #245 of 3633
Dewboy3- As a fellow M&K active owner I am also looking at Triads as well.
post #246 of 3633
Does anybody know what de difference is between the 750 LCR and the 850 LCR? To me it seems like they are identical speakers with different finishes.

/Chuck
post #247 of 3633
I think there are a few models that are the same like that.
post #248 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck V View Post

Does anybody know what de difference is between the 750 LCR and the 850 LCR? To me it seems like they are identical speakers with different finishes.

/Chuck

While the 850's basically have the same look as the 750's there are some other differences. I believe the 850's use a different tweeter.
post #249 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post

While the 850's basically have the same look as the 750's there are some other differences. I believe the 850's use a different tweeter.

I think you may be right.

At least there has to be some difference because the price tag on the 850's is quite a big higher .

Is it anybody that has wall mounted the 750's? MK did produce wall mounting brackets but that will be hard to get now...any ideas will be welcome.

/Chuck
post #250 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post

While the 850's basically have the same look as the 750's there are some other differences. I believe the 850's use a different tweeter.

This is correct, the 850's use the Professional open-back transmission line tweeter; I believe that the crossover is different also.
post #251 of 3633
I have the 851s (same as the 850s except painted finish versus wood) and Hunter67 is correct. The 850s crossover and tweeter are different than the 750s. Also, the 750 is THX certified and the 850 is not. I don't really know what that difference means, but my 850s sound fantastic.

I have wall mounted my 851s using generic mounts designed for the speakers weight. I would have preferred using M&K's mounts but they stopped making them for some time before they went out of business. One caution: the threaded mounting holes on the back of my 850s (and probably the 750s too) are only 2 inches apart and most of the generic mounts have 2 1/2 inch hole spacing.
post #252 of 3633
Thanks wjr858.

I'll se if I can find some mounts that fit the 750 LCR's so they can be put on the wall in a steady way. If I can't find any good mounts I'll have to make some by my own. To bad the original mounts is gone.

Besides, no news from Ken Kreisel about the current situation?

/Chuck
post #253 of 3633
Either on this forum or another folks were saying M&K filed Chapter 7 versus 11. No reorganization just going out of business. It will be curious to see where folks that worked for M&K end up. It might be that we will see individuals start companies (like Ascend) that make high quality speakers at reasonable prices. I think we will see internet direct versus distribution via dealers.

As far as commercial mounts I stay away from those that use a nylon ball. If you crank them down they will stay in place, but because the ball dents they are difficult to adjust, especially minor changes. A french cleat would be a secure mount if you are making them.
post #254 of 3633
Ok, so I have an odd HT line up - LCR750 center, S125 mains, surround 55 tripoles for rears. I am looking to expand to a 6.1/7.1 line up and achieve better timber matching at the same time.

So, the question is, should I try to pick up a used set of LCR750s for the fronts and a set of 550s or 55 tripoles for the rears? This would mean taking out the S125s

OR, should I try to find an S125 center and a set of S85s for rears? This would mean keeping the 55 tripoles which are not listed as a perfect timber match and replacing the LCR75o center.

Thoughts/opinions anyone?

Thanks, ET
post #255 of 3633
You might try to upgrade to 850s across the front anyway.. I've been reading they are nice improvement over something that was already very good. Don't know how easy that will be to do on the used market.
post #256 of 3633
ET, if you can wait a couple of months I'm very positive to the posibility of buying new speakers.

/Chuck
post #257 of 3633
Chuck-

Do you think that someone will pull M&K out of bankruptcy?
post #258 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by etlindberg View Post

Chuck-

Do you think that someone will pull M&K out of bankruptcy?

Yes I think so.

I could be fooled, but the signals I'm getting is that there might be a solotion to the situation. Others in this thread says the opposit, that one should forget MK and move on. I do belive othervise.

/Chuck
post #259 of 3633
A few weeks ago I posted on the UK's AV Forums about my recent experience with M&K. I had bought three MP-150 speakers in a black gloss finish from an authorised UK dealer.

My post on AVF didn't last long because it was decided by the Forum Administrator that my post was not in the best interest of AV Forums, so it was deleted. (I did of course have the permission of Ken Kreisel to post his e-mail on AVF and/or to pass it on to anyone who I felt may be interested.)

My AVF post was in two parts: The first part basically just stated that I had received three black gloss M&K MP-150 speakers from a UK authorised M&K dealer, and one of three speakers had virtually a full internal short. I went on to say that being quite shocked about this I e-mailed M&K support.

The second part of my post was a copy of an in-depth reply from Ken Kreisel which sympathetically stated that there was no such thing as an authorised M&K MP-150 in a black gloss finish!

If there are no objections from the AVS Administrator or Moderators then I could post it here for all to read?

If I don't hear anything against posting it, then I'll post it here tomorrow.
post #260 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Zodiac View Post

The second part of my post was a copy of an in-depth reply from Ken Kreisel which sympathetically stated that there was no such thing as an authorised M&K MP-150 in a black gloss finish!

If there are no objections from the AVS Administrator or Moderators then I could post it here for all to read?

If I don't hear anything against posting it, then I'll post it here tomorrow.

You could, but why bother?

A) It's already been posted and gone over on here.

B) It's posted on the M&K web site.

I don't see that there is anything to be gained by re-re-posting it on here, except to keep this thread on pg 1 or 2 in the forum, which is a pretty specious reason.
post #261 of 3633
Fair enough, I won't bother then.
post #262 of 3633
Quote:


I think we will see internet direct versus distribution via dealers.

Of course, it doesn't require as much capitol investment to hire a Chinese firm to build something for you.
post #263 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Zodiac View Post

Fair enough, I won't bother then.

I think this is important stuff that everyone having, or planing to buy, (possible) counterfeit/fake MK's should read. If one don't bother about it then it's free to not read this thread.

I think you should post it.

/Chuck
post #264 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck V View Post

I think this is important stuff that everyone having, or planing to buy, (possible) counterfeit/fake MK's should read. If one don't bother about it then it's free to not read this thread.

I think you should post it.

/Chuck

I did feel that Ken Kreisel's e-mail was well worth posting for all those with an interest in M&K - hence my post! Obviously Chuck does as well, after reading the e-mail following a request for it via PM.

The people that have seen it certainly saw things in a different light, and it took a lot of guesswork out of the equation.

When CR_Client quickly replied to my post, effectively saying that posting the e-mail would be pointless, I thought what's the point with a comment like that! The e-mail from Ken actually answered one or two of CR_Client's questions earlier in this thread!!

As I said previously, I'll wait until tomorrow to see if there are any objections from AVS (or a number of members) and I'll post the e-mail then if there's no problem.

Steve.
post #265 of 3633
Just post it already.
post #266 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Zodiac View Post

A few weeks ago I posted on the UK's AV Forums about my recent experience with M&K. I had bought three MP-150 speakers in a black gloss finish from an authorised UK dealer.

My post on AVF didn't last long because it was decided by the Forum Administrator that my post was not in the best interest of AV Forums, so it was deleted. (I did of course have the permission of Ken Kreisel to post his e-mail on AVF and/or to pass it on to anyone who I felt may be interested.)

My AVF post was in two parts: The first part basically just stated that I had received three black gloss M&K MP-150 speakers from a UK authorised M&K dealer, and one of three speakers had virtually a full internal short. I went on to say that being quite shocked about this I e-mailed M&K support.

The second part of my post was a copy of an in-depth reply from Ken Kreisel which sympathetically stated that there was no such thing as an authorised M&K MP-150 in a black gloss finish!

If there are no objections from the AVS Administrator or Moderators then I could post it here for all to read?

If I don't hear anything against posting it, then I'll post it here tomorrow.

Still waiting for the Post.
post #267 of 3633
Sorry for the delay, I've been a bit busy.

As per my earlier post, this is the reply I received from Ken Kreisel after e-mailing M&K's Technical Support, regarding one of my new black gloss MP-150's having a full internal short:

Quote:
Barry forwarded your email to me over the weekend and I would like to thank you for writing. Your email both solves a mystery and also opens a very big "Pandora's Box" for us at M&K. I'm Ken Kreisel, founder and President of M&K. Let me explain about your MP-150's by telling you a little M&K history which you might find of interest. Sorry if the "little" story gets too long:

I founded M&K in 1974 in Beverly Hills, California, at the age of 24, and I proudly admit to always being obsessed with quality and performance. From the very first speaker we ever built, every one was built and tested in our California factory using the world's best laboratory grade test microphones and acoustic test equipment and then every speaker was carefully listened to by trained "ears" to find flaws that the test equipment could not find. In 1999 we decided to produce a lower cost speaker line in China called the M&K K-Series which we contracted to a well respected USA firm called ACI (Audio Components International) which specializes in sub-contracting and supervising Chinese based speaker manufacturing for many of the major USA speaker companies. I insisted that all K-Series speakers be 99.9% assembled and fully tested in China and then shipped to our USA factory for complete M&K inspection and full acoustic testing. Everyone told me I was crazy to spend the extra money to ship 100% of the Chinese built product to the USA for testing as ACI and their vendor in China builds and tests speakers for the world's top brands. I was vindicated when we received one shipment of 5000 defective speakers which would have been delivered to worldwide customers had they been shipped directly from the Chinese factory.

In 2005, after several years of improved Chinese quality, Tommy Draffen (owner of ACI) and I decided it was time to try 100% Chinese built and tested M&K K-Series product which would be shipped from China directly to worldwide customers. The first K-Series direct shipments were very well received by our international distributors, including our UK distributor Gecko owned by Rob Sinden. Tommy Draffen and I decided to test the waters and move our very successful M&K 750THX System products to China for direct shipments to worldwide customers. During the development phase, it was a struggle to achieve M&K level quality from 750THX samples built in China. For the first production run in early 2006 we sent M&K's head of engineering to China to supervise and train the Chinese QC personnel. He was satisfied the quality was OK and the Chinese factory went into full production on the various speakers and subwoofer that comprise the M&K 750 THX System.

By May 2006 as portions of the various production runs came to the USA we did full testing on them and could see that about 30% of the speakers did not meet our or THX standards before repaired. Our M&K testing standards and personnel for our least expensive products are the same as for our multi-thousand dollar professional speakers we build for the world's most discerning studios. So, I admit, many of the speaker defects we find may never be heard by the average home listener, but I know M&K owners appreciate knowing their M&K speakers are tested and calibrated to our highest professional standards. Unfortunately, some of the defects we found in ACI's production runs included shorted crossovers (as you found) and out-of-phase wired speaker drivers, indicating that the speakers were never even tested before leaving the Chinese factory. I have attached two photos of a typical shorted ACI crossover.

While all of this was going on, ACI's owner was trying to convince me to move our S-150 THX Ultra Speaker System to China for full turnkey production for worldwide distribution. I told him the 150THX product was far more complicated to build and I didn't see how they could produce the quality M&K needed.

By this time we were having several disputes with ACI, not the least of which was over the quality issue. By September 2006 we discovered that ACI was shipping M&K product "out the backdoor" from China, including to Gecko in the UK, without any M&K control over the product.

Sorry for this long story, but, I didn't think you would understand about your MP150's in high gloss without knowing some of the above background: About a year ago we ordered a small quantity of high gloss MP150 empty cabinets from ACI, to be shipped from China to the USA without drivers or crossover and then built by M&K into finished MP150 high gloss speakers. We have never worked with ACI to build complete MP150's, or SS-150's or S-150's or MX-350 subs. ACI is absolutely not authorized or licensed in any way to build MP150's, or SS-150's, or S-150's or S-150 System products. So, I am sorry to tell you that your MP-150 speakers are a bogus counterfeit speaker. We have absolutely no way to know what drivers or crossovers or anything else is in your speaker, or if it resembles in anyway a real MP-150.

Robin Sinden of Gecko, whom I assume imported your speakers into the UK, must be knowingly selling counterfeit M&K speakers as he didn't buy them from M&K, he must be buying them from China through ACI or the Chinese factory, probably at a discounted price! I think the Chinese do the same with Rolex watches! Perhaps I should consider this imitation the kindest form of flattery! We have been trying to get information from Mr. Sinden for many months as to what is going on regarding his suspected "backdoor" purchases from ACI. Our lawyers and ACI's lawyers have been going at it for months. All of this has been a huge drain on M&K and a large loss of revenue.

Your MP-150 situation is the first we have heard that any 150 product was being counterfeit out of China. Any more information you can share with us would be most helpful in our legal dispute.

Has your dealer been able to make any projections when they might expect the SS-150's? As far as I know, we have no SS-150's on order from Gecko so I assume these also will be counterfeit out of China.

Normally I end my correspondence with GOOD SOUND TO YOU.....ALWAYS, and I certainly wish you that and hope I can be of some help in getting you some real M&K speakers sometime in the near future.

Look forward to hearing back from you and sorry you are going through this when you just want great M&K sound.

GOOD SOUND TO YOU.....ALWAYS,

KEN KREISEL
post #268 of 3633
I purchased an MK System 3 package about six months ago. So far I'm pretty happy with my purchase, but I do have a small issue with the sub. The sub that came with this package is an MK KX-12 SF. The sub has an on/off/auto switch. If I leave the switch set to 'auto' the sub never turns on when I power on my Yamaha Rx-V1600 receiver. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Should I leave the sub switch turned off or on when I am not using it? Does it matter either way? If I keep the sub turned off will the life of the product be extended at all?
post #269 of 3633
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifikid View Post

I purchased an MK System 3 package about six months ago. So far I'm pretty happy with my purchase, but I do have a small issue with the sub. The sub that came with this package is an MK KX-12 SF. The sub has an on/off/auto switch. If I leave the switch set to 'auto' the sub never turns on when I power on my Yamaha Rx-V1600 receiver. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Should I leave the sub switch turned off or on when I am not using it? Does it matter either way? If I keep the sub turned off will the life of the product be extended at all?

Subs with "automatic on" modes do not turn on when the receiver turns on. They only turn on when they detect an LFE signal. This would be true for all surround formats (w/sub) but not for a pure stereo signal where the mains are set to "Large." Once you play a DVD w/DD or DTS soundtrack, you should notice it come to life but not before the signal is detected.
post #270 of 3633
hifikid, don't know about the kx-12 but some (most?) subwoofers needs a signal if they are going to turn on. It does not atomaticly turn on just because your receiver turn on.

But if it sends out a signal to your sub, it should turn on, if not, then there is some sort of problem.

/Chuck
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