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post #661 of 899
On a related note, I love the hell of of "Skating Away" by Tull... I've got the quad mix of War Child and it's pretty sublime.




sharkshark,

I'm also a huge Jethro Tull fan and have always been interested in hearing their stuff in 5.1 Surround. After reading your post I "Googled" Warchild in 5.1 and am currently downloading it as a bit torrent file. Is that how you obtained it or did you have a Quad LP? If you got it via the bit torrent route, allow me to ask a newbie question, which is...I would assume when the file download is finished I'll have to burn it onto a DVD rather than a CD to hear the 5.1....yes?

Thanks for the idea first and the answer to this question second.
post #662 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by davmor@sbcglobal View Post

On a related note, I love the hell of of "Skating Away" by Tull... I've got the quad mix of War Child and it's pretty sublime.

I would assume when the file download is finished I'll have to burn it onto a DVD rather than a CD to hear the 5.1....yes?

Thanks for the idea first and the answer to this question second.

maybe I can answer. It would depend how the person authored the disc. There are quad transfers I've seen offered up as dts cd's, flac, dvd's with dolby digital or dts, and some even author it as a dvd-audio disc.
post #663 of 899
yeah, that...

DTS-CD are "lossy", DVD-A are "lossless" compressed...it all depends, naturally, on the largesse of the person who created the file.

Alas, I don't have CD4 playback from the original vinyl...

Enjoy it! While you're at it, try and track down Quadrophenia CD4 for me, please? Let alone Joni's "Hissing..." album, haven't been able to track that down either alas...

ps. Hot Butter's "Popcorn" is superwicked in Quad.

pps. BRING ME MY SET!!!
post #664 of 899
WOW!! Really. Ok, let me go back... I get home from work, no box... sadness. Look online still says up for today... UPS delivers up til' 7:30. Ok... take the kids to cub scouts, leave note by door expecting to come home to nothing. But then, the box!

So far my only regret is that buydotcom dropped the price $20 since I ordered it (listing for $94 for the us version now).

OK back to the real topic. Yes, I bought the non-SACD set. I listened to Foxtrot last night (older CD release labled "Definitive Remaster" (LOL)). So I broke out Foxtrot first. I started by playing the first 2 min of Watcher from the "Definitive Remaster" to do an A/B comparison to the new CD included. I had to go back and make it an A/B/A to make sure I was hearing it right. OMG even the new "CD" mix blows away the "Definitive". It's so obvious it's almost painful. It sounded so good, Phil's fills coming out like never before, but I still stopped at 2 min to put in the DVD. Elevate to another level altogether with the multichannel DTS mix. As I listened to the CD the other day I wondered if it would sound "dated" still in the surround mix. Not only does it sound completely more modern in the CD mix it is pure delight in 5.1. Every song just sounds incredible. Watcher is "heavier" than ever and just a monster. You can hear everything clearly like never before. I have some of this on vinyl and look forward to doing some comparisons there as well soon. This BLOWS doors off of the 2 post Gabriel albums I got (Duke and Trick though I do like Trick alot). I hear peaks and builds in the music, seems to have plenty of dynamics. I'm sure it's compressed compared to it's SACD twin but still.... the 96/24 DTS is bliss to me now. Suppers Ready is coming on now... have to go and close my eyes for a few. I can't wait to hear more. Buy this in any form if you like these albums... really this is worth all the wait IMHO.

-Randall
post #665 of 899
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genesis-1970...7029015&sr=1-1

Is this it? Will this get me the full high bitrate lossless 5.1 mix?
post #666 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genesis-1970...7029015&sr=1-1

Is this it? Will this get me the full high bitrate lossless 5.1 mix?

Yup, if you have a SACD player... Plus, it's the PAL version for the companion disc...
post #667 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

Yup, if you have a SACD player... Plus, it's the PAL version for the companion disc...

Yup, I have a SACD player. The music content is the same between PAL and NTSC? Is just the DVD video that is accelerated to 25fps?
post #668 of 899
Thread Starter 
Ahhh! My SACD set has finally arrived. Cannot wait to give it a listen.
post #669 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Ahhh! My SACD set has finally arrived. Cannot wait to give it a listen.

With so many people having Amazon screw up their orders, I forget--where did you buy it from again? PAL or NTSC?

And, of course, we want to hear your thoughts on the box set...
post #670 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

With so many people having Amazon screw up their orders, I forget--where did you buy it from again? PAL or NTSC?

And, of course, we want to hear your thoughts on the box set...

Got the SACD/PAL set though amazon in the UK. I can play both NTSC/PAL - and don't really care about the video side of the set anyhow! Got a good price given the current exchange rates.

Cannot wait to play these discs!
post #671 of 899
You might care about the DVD side of the set when you see what they did with Lamb. It's more than just slides and totally compliments the music!

I've now played all but the bonus disc and each is really amazing compared to prior mixes. The surround mixes are all done very well without being gimicky. These albums have never sounded this good before and they are some of my personal favorites.
post #672 of 899
I watched the video extras last night. I hadn't seen the VH1 archive before and the videos of WOTS and TMB brought back nice memories of seeing them do the songs live and gave me goose bumps. Today I'll be firing up the tubes and listening to the SACDs.

larry
post #673 of 899
Thread Starter 
Listened to Trespass last night - an excellent, if underappreciated album - and if it is any indication, this is the best sounding set. I suppose these early albums have always been my favorites, showcasing a band at the peak of it creative prowess, thus biasing my view a bit, but WOW!

I hear very little of the compression that detracted somewhat from the earlier sets, and the surround mix is done quite tastefully and effectively. Peter Gabriels voice has never been clearer and you can hear things that were never apparent in earlier incarnations of these recordings - including, funnily enough, Tony Banks backing vocals which come through quite clearly and distinctly in places.

The bass is awesome - particularly on White Mountain (one of my personal faves) and The Knife. I have spent both time and cash over the years trying to get world-class bass out of my surround sound system to the point where seven subs are required to fully smooth out the lumpy bass response in my room. It is on recordings like this that the investment is borne out - fabulous!

I look forward to going through 'Cryme tonight.

What a shame that more people havn't been able or willing to appreciate the incredible experience of hi-rez surround sound music, and that more bands/record labels haven't had the courage and vision to release more recordings like this. Sigh!
post #674 of 899
So far I'm quite happy. I'm half-way through Foxtrot after listening to Trespass and Nursery Cryme. The sound gets better with each disc most likey due to the quality of the masters as tech progressed 30 some odd years ago. I'm listening to 2ch SACD. This is the best this music has sounded (recorded).

larry
post #675 of 899
...wait a minute, seven subs?

PM if you want, but what are you running? I'm the idiot with 6 (sorta... DefTech 7100sc fronts, 3000 for center, PM900 sides and a Velodyne 15" for LFE... all in a 12x15 room!)

SEVEN?

So happy you guys are grooving on these tunes!!!
post #676 of 899
So how long we going to have to wait for "From Genesis to Revelation" to come out on SACD? I did listen to all the discs yesterday. Some songs "critically", others not so much because I was working. I'm not going to complain at all, I'm very happy. It was worth the wait.

larry
post #677 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...wait a minute, seven subs?

PM if you want, but what are you running? I'm the idiot with 6 (sorta... DefTech 7100sc fronts, 3000 for center, PM900 sides and a Velodyne 15" for LFE... all in a 12x15 room!)

SEVEN?

So happy you guys are grooving on these tunes!!!

I know, does seem a bit obsessive-compulsive, but I have been on a multiple year 'odyssey' to get smooth extended bass out of a room that is less than acoustically ideal. Given the modes and lumps in my room, the only way to do this was to overload the room with multiple bass sources - many of them just running below 40 hz.

I am also a long time audiophile and have assembled a really state-of-the-art system (much of it bought second, or even third hand as a way to mitigate cost) that allows hi rez 5.1 music to shine.

I run Genesis 200s as my main right and left speakers, and even though they are flat down to 16 hz I get nothing close to that in my room so also run a pair of Genesis 928 subs that are actually placed behind me. My surrounds (five Bohlender-Graebner 520i speakers for sides, rears and rear center) are limited range so three more subs - a single 3-channel BagEnd for the rears and two sunfire d10 subs for the sides - augment their bass response.

Finally, I run two subs for the .1 LFE channel - a Martin-Logan Descent and a VMPS (along with a butt shaker in the couch).

I have been considering an eighth sub to augment the center channle - but that seemed to be overdoing things a bit , don't you think?

Ah well, back to THE SET!
post #678 of 899
Thread Starter 
Got through 'Cryme and Foxtrot last night and continue to be very pleased with the set. I see that grousing about compression has already started on other forums along with complaints that these new versions are not 'faithful' to the originals. Some have gone so far as to suggest that they sound like different songs - hyperbole of course!

I find the latter criticism, particularly, to be quite curious. I have been listening exclusively to the SACD 5.1 version, so clearly there are differences from the original 2-channel versions - but it's not like they are not recognizable or have new sounds added. My experience with hi-rez surround sound is that details previously obscured in the older 2-channel versions are quite apparent and can be surprising - 'don't recall hearing THAT before'. I also find with hi-rez 5.1 that it is much easier to hear the 'creak' of the instruments, with a much clearer sense of what was used to make a particular sound or sound-effect. Disconcerting to some, I suppose.

Interestingly, so far, Trespass remains my favorite - perhaps becasue the improvement wrought is so dramatic compared to older versions of the disc. Both 'Cryme and Foxtrot are fabulous, although, on the latter, I find Horizons to be a bit louder than i would have liked and a few bass-pedals seemed to be missing from Supper's Ready (although I may be mixing it up with the live version on Archive #1, will have to check).

My all-time favorite G album is Selling England by the Euro, so look forward to giving that a spin tonight.
post #679 of 899
Hello All,
I just got my SACD Box set last night. I was only able to listen to Nursery Cryme. WOW! what an experience! It feels like they removed a haze that was over the last remastered version. You can hear all the instruments so clearly. The interplay between Hackett and Banks playing unison lines is incredible. Hacketts solo on The fountin of samalicis sounds amazing. I cant wait to listen to all the other albums. Also the interviews with the band discussing track by track makes it that much better.
post #680 of 899
Ca1ore, that is quite an obnoxious setup, particularly with the inclusion of the "butt-kickers". I mean, really, have you coated your couch in plastic for the inevitable bowel release at 6hz?

Speaking of poo, I'll take the cautiously optimistic positivity in this thread over any whiny/bitching from Hoffman/et. al. any day... Yes, there may well be things to criticize, but, dammit, keep your old version if you're so pathetically needing to harp on the new ones!

The "they don't sound like the old version" argument is so horrifyingly redundant given the impetus for these releases....

And let me be the first to say it here - just WAIT until the Beatles catalogue update that's coming in 2009 shows up for some severely ridiculous hyperbole...
post #681 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Got through 'Cryme and Foxtrot last night and continue to be very pleased with the set. I see that grousing about compression has already started on other forums along with complaints that these new versions are not 'faithful' to the originals. Some have gone so far as to suggest that they sound like different songs - hyperbole of course!

I find the latter criticism, particularly, to be quite curious. I have been listening exclusively to the SACD 5.1 version, so clearly there are differences from the original 2-channel versions - but it's not like they are not recognizable or have new sounds added. My experience with hi-rez surround sound is that details previously obscured in the older 2-channel versions are quite apparent and can be surprising - 'don't recall hearing THAT before'. I also find with hi-rez 5.1 that it is much easier to hear the 'creak' of the instruments, with a much clearer sense of what was used to make a particular sound or sound-effect. Disconcerting to some, I suppose.

Interestingly, so far, Trespass remains my favorite - perhaps becasue the improvement wrought is so dramatic compared to older versions of the disc. Both 'Cryme and Foxtrot are fabulous, although, on the latter, I find Horizons to be a bit louder than i would have liked and a few bass-pedals seemed to be missing from Supper's Ready (although I may be mixing it up with the live version on Archive #1, will have to check).

My all-time favorite G album is Selling England by the Euro, so look forward to giving that a spin tonight.

I listened to only 2ch and I do think the dynamics could have been better if you compare it to modern recordings, but I don't think that is the fault of the remaster, I believe it's just how the originals were done. There's nobody who can say factually that the new issues are more compressed than than any of the others unless they have access to the original tapes. There may be some slight extra compression during "loud" parts because most remasters tend to up the gain a tad to try and extract some extra detail. These discs certainly don't sound as bad as the first box set that came out. And, I too, heard things I never noticed before on some songs. Maybe when I have nothing better to do I'll A/B the CD versions with previous issues.

larry
post #682 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

Ca1ore, that is quite an obnoxious setup, particularly with the inclusion of the "butt-kickers". I mean, really, have you coated your couch in plastic for the inevitable bowel release at 6hz?

Best audio review quotation I ever read was for the Clark Synthesis Tactile Transducer where the reviewer called them 'the best bang for the butt' in home theater. LOL
post #683 of 899
..."penetrating", a word used when describing the caliber of the pithy review above, and the diagnosis noted on the Doctor's chart, describing just what action the "couch piston" performed during the audio sodomy that accidentally (but, sadly, inevitably) resulted from the playback of Peter Gabriel UP SACD, Track 6.





..Sorry, too soon?
post #684 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

And let me be the first to say it here - just WAIT until the Beatles catalogue update that's coming in 2009 shows up for some severely ridiculous hyperbole...

In Hi-Rez 5.1? Man, that would be too much to hope for as the Beatles Love album remains my favorite hirez 5.1 recording (at least for a few more days).
post #685 of 899
...dig in another thread here, I had a brief chat about this with Giles Martin and an Apple Records exec about this... Notably they told me nothing, but I -assure- you I pestered them for high res/5.1. All the Apple guy wanted to know if I had bought Help on DVD (had bought, and yet, stupidly, have yet to watch it ever...Maybe I should do that now!)

Anyhoo, here's a bet - we'll get rereleases of all the albums in Remastered CD. Europe -may- get SACD. I'd be pleasantly giddy if they did what Genesis has done, and gone the CD/DVD set route. Maybe they'll grant us comprehensive docs on each album, interviewing surving Beatles, as well as George Martin, the Studio 1 boys, etc.

So, it -has- been confirmed (in Uncut, among other places) that we'll get remasters. It's a far flung hope that we'll get 5.1 (or, hell, 7.1!). We can only dream...

I'll be surprised (well, shocked) if we're getting 5.1...

ps. Did you buy the doc on the making of Love? (wow, that sounds weird). Alas it's not BD, but it does the trick, a decent film
pps. Do you own this ( http://recordingthebeatles.com/)? If not, you HAVE to... Super, SUPER amazing book for any Beatles Nerd.
ppps. You want prog sickyness? I'm typing while I watch a Pink Floyd concert of Atom Heart Mother that played on San Francisco TV in 1970.
post #686 of 899
Hey All,
I have finished listening to all the SACDs (except Tresspass, and the unreleased songs). I think Nick Davis did a fantastic Job breathing new life into some of the greatest and most creative music of all time. I listened to the Lamb last night and you can tell that they recorded this album in a huge room. The sound stage is massive. There seems to be alot of room sound for ambiance. and some times it takes away from the clarity of the instruments. I think the Sonics on the older albums have a better overall tightness. If I had to pick my favorite SACD mix, it probably would be Nursey Cryme.
post #687 of 899
Thread Starter 
I'm halfway through Lamb .... thought SEBTP was terrific, but I must confess I found the first half of Lamb 'different' than I remember. Perhaps this is because the definitive Lamb for me has become the live version on Archive 1 and I have therefore not listened to the studio version in a number of years - perhaps it is just a poor memory.

Regardless, if there was a better and more creative run of five albums by ANY band in R&R history I've yet to find it!
post #688 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

I'm halfway through Lamb .... thought SEBTP was terrific, but I must confess I found the first half of Lamb 'different' than I remember. Perhaps this is because the definitive Lamb for me has become the live version on Archive 1 and I have therefore not listened to the studio version in a number of years - perhaps it is just a poor memory.

Regardless, if there was a better and more creative run of five albums by ANY band in R&R history I've yet to find it!

I definately agree with you in regards to the Lamb. There were times where I felt the mix was missing something? There were holes in the music. This is the only album out of the box set where I felt the songs took on a different overall feel?
post #689 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

I definately agree with you in regards to the Lamb. There were times where I felt the mix was missing something? There were holes in the music. This is the only album out of the box set where I felt the songs took on a different overall feel?

I am now through all the discs, and noticed a different feel to the Lamb really only on the first disc, not the second. Not sure if I would call it 'holes in the music', rather different sounds seemd to be emphasized. But, as I observed above, I have been listening to the live lamb in recent years so will have to go back to the old studio version to make a few comparisons.

Regardless, these new versions have a clarity that is far better than before and in SS allows you to hear sounds that were previously obscured in the mix. And in places, the power in the bass is really awesome.

I know both Tony B. and Mike R. tend to be somewhat self-effacing about their playing abilities, but collectively the band has never sounded better than on these new SACD versions. Collins' drums sound particularly good.

Also, other than Horizons kind of jumping out at me, the levels of compression seem less apparent than the other sets (lthough in both those prior sets I was not as bothered as others).

Hope these sell well enough to pursuade the powers-that-be to move forward with the live set!
post #690 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

I am now through all the discs, and noticed a different feel to the Lamb really only on the first disc, not the second. Not sure if I would call it 'holes in the music', rather different sounds seemd to be emphasized. But, as I observed above, I have been listening to the live lamb in recent years so will have to go back to the old studio version to make a few comparisons.

Regardless, these new versions have a clarity that is far better than before and in SS allows you to hear sounds that were previously obscured in the mix. And in places, the power in the bass is really awesome.

I know both Tony B. and Mike R. tend to be somewhat self-effacing about their playing abilities, but collectively the band has never sounded better than on these new SACD versions. Collins' drums sound particularly good.

Also, other than Horizons kind of jumping out at me, the levels of compression seem less apparent than the other sets (lthough in both those prior sets I was not as bothered as others).

Hope these sell well enough to pursuade the powers-that-be to move forward with the live set!

I totaly agree with you in regards to tne new level these mixes have brought out in these albums. Rutherfords bass definately shines. Do you notice that when he plays the bass pedals the bottom end gets a little to hot?
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