Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 123

Are you kidding!! How about some action!!!

I'm sick of skipping andrew-tufnells posts to get facts on this XBR problem.

DELETE all his posts, as they belittle this whole thread.

I had some PM's with Andrew and he agreed to chill: others may want to do the same if they wish to maintain their posting privleges on AVS


Nuff said

Mine is adjusted to where I like my picture(not extreme settings either). If the tv has problems with those settings than the tv is simply being returned to Best Buy. I have a cheap Westinghouse 32 inch lcd that has given me no problems for over a year now and it also has a very nice picture.

I am interested in buying an XBR however not the 46 but the 40. All of this info is making me very nervous so my question is are there as many couding issues in the 40 as the 46?

After reading posts on this panel-stress theory. I completely agree with DJSirReal. The "Cloudy" problem may ultimately be the "chassis" that suspends/supports the delicate panel indicating it is not stiff enough to resist tension/torsion to the LCD panel during movement/lifting. Notice how the clouds/"mura" are concentrated on an axis from corner to corner on the panel screen in some cases, which I believe is dependant on how the TV itself was transported/lifted.

Hope Sony is reading all these posts to look for such clues, which may indicate the need for more than just a electronic program "Patch" fix.

i think the cloudy issue has just as much effect on the 40" as the 46." at least, both my 40" so far have been cloudy

There have been reports of clouds in all sizes and types of XBR. This means all xbrs: 40/46/52 XBR2/3 are affected. There have also been reports of clouds in other models including the V2500.

mod

some posts deleted

if Andrew has agreed not to post here: then it is best not to quote his earlier posts and invite yet another response-from here on... OK?

Thanks

YES! I had to return a 40XBR2 purchased in December from BB and Manufactured in October 06. The blotches across the screen were so distracting that I searched the Cnet review comments and found this discussion thread. I then returned the set with the knowledge that it was not ME, it is a common defect. Some sets are worse than others. I purchased another 40XBR2 days later from CC and this set has a milder, less defined, cloud issue which is bearable. I may return it if the January sets are corrected. Otherwise, like others have said, it's picture and color quality are the best in the CC and BB stores.

I'd wait and keep reading this thread for resolution before buying a Sony 40/46 XBR, if I were you.

I've got a 46V2500 (November build) and it has clouding remarkably similar to the XBR photo (space shuttle launch) on the first page of the thread. Rubbing and laying flat has done nothing to improve it.

When the set is first turned on (after many hours off), the black level is VERY uniform. After about 20 minutes, you can start seeing the clouds appear (Upper Left, Lower Right). It takes about an hour for them to reach full brightess, where they stay until the set is powered off and cools down for a few hours. Mine certainly seems temperature related - as the set warms up, the clouds appear.

If you are trying to evaluate an XBR or V2500 for clouding, make sure its on at LEAST ONE HOUR before judging it!

Thank You!!!

when I got my 40v2500 in late december it had alot of clouds (December build). When I exchanged it at CC for a 40xbr2 there were NO clouds on it at all. The 40xbr2 was also a december build.

I know it is a lot of work, which is why I don't think I can muster the time to do it, but it would be great to compile the build dates and cloudy/not cloudy data to see if we can make sense of it. Also, my set was manufactured in Mexico, is this the only assembly locale? If not, are non-Mexico units effected as well?

I saw the 46" Bravia at BJs this weekend, and I'm sure that that set is on all day long. It did not have the clouding problem. I was able to switch input to a blank screen, and did not see any clouding. I'm not exactly sure what the model number was, but it has black all around the screen, not the "floating glass" model.

BTW, do the previous Bravia XBR1 models have the same issue?

It's so hard to pass up one of these Sonys, as they clearly have the best picture of any other LCDs out there. Whatever store you go into that carries these, you will find people flocked to them in awe of the beautiful picture.

I went through five cloudy 40XBR2s before I found one cloudless one. So, from my experience 5/6 of the 40XBRs I owned were cloudy. Don't like those odds too much! I think it's possible to get a cloudless set. If I didn't already have an XBR, I'd wait, follow this thread, and snag a January build (providing the issue has been addressed in that production run).

here is my pics i took of my 46 xbr2. december 2006 build, i bought it last week.

waithing for the field tech to call me and schduale an appointment to look at the tv. I am thinking i might just return it and wait for the newer builds to come out, then test another before i buy it.

Wow, how can such a seroius problem go "unnoticed" by sony thanks to you guys im not going to take my chances. ill probably go with the SAmsung LNS4095. Sony should treat its early adopters better..

Have I understood correctly that Sony does not use a led backlight and the backlight is one big "fluorescent lamp"? If so then how can the software control the backlight so accurately that it forms clouds? Who needs a led backlight anymore if Sony can do it with a normal backlight. And why isn't black totally black if the backlight can be switched off pixelwise (or cloudwise, maybe)? If it is a software defect then why is it that I can change the clouds by pushing the picture with my thumb?

I think I've spent way too much of my time attempting to adjust my settings to eliminate the clouding/ mura/ hazing (call it what you will) on my 40" XBR2, to no avail.

I can not eliminate this problem to my satisfaction regardless of the extent to which I've adjusted the settings.

Sure, you can turn on the light sensor and put power saving on high (too dark) or turn down the backlight and up the brightness to 90 (too washed out) to minimize the problem, but not without degrading overall picture quality. Ofcourse, this is a matter of personal preference as some here say this is acceptable to them. It's not acceptable to me.

Picture quality is the reason that we all paid a premium price for the XBR2 in the first place. PQ is what distinguished this Sony from all the other sets out there. I and most others on this forum are not unreasonable in expecting their sets to perform at the highest level of LCD technology. We paid for it. C-Net demanded it inorder to give it an 8.3 rating. When the set operates as designed (free from defects) it is the best LCD available to date. We know there are excellent sets out there. Many of us have seen them for ourselves or heard of them from others who own them.

I have a defective set. So many others on this forum have defective sets. What we do about it depends on the individual and their situation. Some may keep it and live with it, adjusting its settings to mask the issue. Others will continue exchanging it hoping for that perfect set or searching for the "holy grail" of XBR2's, a new-in-box August build.

With that said, I think I'll just return my set before my 30 days run out. Should there be any good reports of "free of defect" January built sets available before the end of this month, I will do an exchange. I really want to keep this set and truly don't know what I'd replace it with.

I'm glad that Sony has recently acknowledged that this issue exists, but all indications are that this is a hardware or design flaw, not a software issue. Yes, I could be wrong, but I'm not willing to wait until after my 30 days are up to find out.

I've picked up so much valuable information in this thread and will continue to follow it and even post should I have anything of value to add to it. Thank you to all.

Unfortunately Sony did not acknowledge their panels have mura defects. Sony states:

"To achieve this high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony utilizes a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even in the darkest image sources.

However, the setting, under certain dark viewing conditions, especially blank screens with no video source, may cause the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit slightly uneven uniformity."

My backlight is set to 2 and the mura defects are still clearly visible. I think we need to be clear that our issue is NOT a backlight problem. I'd even go so far as to change the title of the thread to "Official Sony 40/46" XBR2/3 Mura Defect (Cloudy) Thread"

I have 32V2500 manufactured on 10/2006. My friend has 42S2000 manufactured months before my TV. His TV does not have any clouds. I don't believe that Sony has very much brighter backlight than any other manufacturer. And why do they put this bright backlight if it cannot be used? I think you could even reason that you have bought an apple if the seller says it's apple when in reality you have bought an orange.


There is nothing to believe. Just use your eyes. Either there are clouds or there are not.


Award winning TV with the price tag of Sonys must look perfect under all conditions. What else could you expect.


Yes, as long as the buyers are like you. They pay a high price and are satisfied even if they get total crap. Andrew, for you information, this is called cheating. Don't be so naive.

How was the viewing environment? Clouding is hard to see in any kind of interior daylight environment (anywhere with windows, skylights, etc). It is MUCH more apparent in a darkened room, or at nighttime with low intensity interior lighting.

My earlier post disappeared. I have an experiment in mind, but dont have the resources.

I was thinking of cooling down the panel while operational, but hitting the front of the panel with a cold air from a portable airconditioner or something. It looks like the heat could be causing the uneven backlight. This is based on the observations.

1. the front of the panel is really hot as you get close to it.
2. some report the clouds coming on after a 30 minute operation.

Anyone can try this?

FWIW, I've been watching closely for reports of clouds on 52's. In all of the Sony threads in the AVS forum, I have seen a total of one (1) post with one (1) report of clouds/mura on the 52's. And that owner said he saw minor clouding in one corner of that set. I may have missed another post out there, but all the other posts (at least 6 or more) I've seen by 52" owners have reported zero clouding. I can report the same for my 52 as well.

Cheers!
-3Gun

Simple: It isn't a software defect.

Having realized in my own case that higher brightness solves the problem, my hypothesis is that the clouded areas are defective in such a way that the panel in those areas is unable to block the backlight effectively when the pixels are set to total opacity. That's why turning the backlight down helps, but only a little bit.

But it's also why turning the brightness up destroys the clouds...the brightness setting determines how much to brighten all black pixels, so those that are not damaged start letting in as much light as the cloudy areas when the brightness is turned up. Result: an even panel, but one with less deep black levels. Will try to take pictures of what I'm talking about ASAP.

Hi,

Just joined this forum. First post. I just bought a KDL-40BRX2.

Maybe the software fix dynamically adjust the backlight based upon the picture content? This is still a workaround, but it might just do it.

However, I just got mine on 1/13/07 and I'm sad that an otherwise beautiful product has this flaw. I would bring it back and get something else, but from what I see and have read, even with this flaw it is still the best 40" LCD 1080p product on the market. Anybody have suggestions for alternatives that match up to this product (I apologize if I missed some earlier in this long thread)?

Thanks,
Ozyland

I can only remember one report of a cloudy 52XBR as well. That's good news as I am seriously contemplating replacing my rear projection Sony LCD in the living room with a 52XBR2.

[quote=swizzir]Unfortunately Sony did not acknowledge their panels have mura defects.

Yes, but they have acknowledged that there is an issue. This is a step in the right direction, although naturally they have understated the problem. I don't think a software patch (coming in February) will provide a satisfactory resolution to what many of us believe is a hardware/ design defect.

As you, me and countless others have found, adjusting the settings only masks an inherent design or hardware flaw. Kind of like turning the radio up loud in your car to hide the sound from a broken muffler, the noise isn't as bothersome, but it's still there and your ears hurt from having your radio turned up so loud.

Right... but if the workaround is dynamic, relative to the image content, it might work. However, I don't want to wait until February to find out the nature of this "fix". How can we find out more on this "fix"?