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Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 129

post #3841 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Ok, I'm back. I just talked to Sony. I gave them my model/serial number and asked if my TV was affected with the clouding problem. I informed the tech that I was aware that Sony had posted information on the product page on their website and that I had been following the thread on AVS. I told her that I knew there was a list of affected TVs according to serial number and that I wanted to know if mine was on that list. Mind you, I never told her my TV had clouds or clouding problems. She took my info and then was either away from the phone or put me on hold for about a minute. She then came back on the line and told me that it looked like my TV was affected with the problem. She then promptly apologized for the problem and the inconvenience and then let me know that the fix was not going to do anything to adjust my backlight or my powersaver mode on my TV. I clarified that it was not going to adjust the backlighting or the power saver mode and she said that was correct. She then told me that they would ship out the USB device and NEVER ONCE MENTIONED THE SETTINGS! She never told me to adjust my backlight or my light sensor or my power saver. Instead, before I could even go there, she was letting me know that none of those things would be affected by the service patch. So, they're sending me a USB device because apparently my TV is affected. I don't know what to make out of all that. What do you guys think???

I couldn't resist called back myself since you're the 2nd or so person that said the patch was shipping. My rep said it wasn't available yet.
post #3842 of 9118
I am hopeful that the firmware update will simply provide an option in the setup menu that can be turned on or off (or adjusted a percentage from 0 to 100). If that is the case, then the firmware would not do any permanent and irreversible harm. That is what I am hoping for. But I remain skeptical that the fix will provide a satisfactory result. Specifically, I suspect that this patch will will not provide a viable solution for scenes that are almost black, but not totally black. I could be wrong, but that is my concern.

Also, I am concerned that this patch will only apply to those panels that were built during the past 3 or 4 months, and will not be installed on newer ones. For the newer panels, Sony will probably correct whatever has gone wrong with the manufacturing process. To me, accepting a firmware patch is like buying a new set of tires with holes that require a patch. Who in their right mind would accept a new set of tires that have been patched?

And one more thought: Everyone should start stockpiling some source material that shows the defect, because after the firmware has been installed, it might not be possible to view the clouds by tuning to a blank input.
post #3843 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelead View Post

I'm mad that they haven't acknowledged the 40v2500 as having the same problem!

Call in as I did so that there is strength in numbers
post #3844 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonydude1966 View Post

I couldn't resist called back myself since you're the 2nd or so person that said the patch was shipping. My rep said it wasn't available yet.


Sorry. I wasn't clear in my post. She didn't say she was shipping it out to me right now. She said it will ship to me before the end of January - so in the nex two weeks. Sorry for the confusion.

What do you think about them telling me my set is in the affected group?
post #3845 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigk200 View Post

I am hopeful that the firmware update will simply provide an option in the setup menu that can be turned on or off (or adjusted a percentage from 0 to 100). If that is the case, then the firmware would not do any permanent and irreversible harm. That is what I am hoping for. But I remain skeptical that the fix will provide a satisfactory result. Specifically, I suspect that this patch will will not provide a viable solution for scenes that are almost black, but not totally black. I could be wrong, but that is my concern.

Also, I am concerned that this patch will only apply to those panels that were built during the past 3 or 4 months, and will not be installed on newer ones. For the newer panels, Sony will probably correct whatever has gone wrong with the manufacturing process. To me, accepting a firmware patch is like buying a new set of tires with holes that require a patch. Who in their right mind would accept a new set of tires that have been patched?

And one more thought: Everyone should start stockpiling some source material that shows the defect, because after the firmware has been installed, it might not be possible to view the clouds by tuning to a blank input.

That's not how "firmware" works.

It's not like a "software patch" that changes a few lines of bad code in an already installed program.

A firmware update (in reality...new version) will install in it's entirety, writing over whatever was there.

So, getting a new firmware version is not like getting a replacement set of tires with holes that are patched.

It's like getting a replacement set of tires that may turn out to be excellent. Or they may still have a similar problem. Or they may have new problems all their own.
post #3846 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Sorry. I wasn't clear in my post. She didn't say she was shipping it out to me right now. She said it will ship to me before the end of January - so in the nex two weeks. Sorry for the confusion.

What do you think about them telling me my set is in the affected group?

Thanks for clarifying, yes I was confused. I'm on the phone right now holding with someone from Sony whom I am educating, and he says he's setting mine up for shipping as well. It seems all of our model numbers for XBR2/3 are affected so far. Hard to speculate why exactly, so many reasons.
post #3847 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob58 View Post

That's not how "firmware" works.

It's not like a "software patch" that changes a few lines of bad code in an already installed program.

A firmware update (in reality...new version) will install in it's entirety, writing over whatever was there.

So, getting a new firmware version is not like getting a replacement set of tires with holes that are patched.

It's like getting a replacement set of tires that may turn out to be excellent. Or they may still have a similar problem. Or they may have new problems all their own.


and thats why I want to bang my head on the wall about this issue of clouding.

is it panel or FW.

I almost would say its possible that its FW considering if the samsungs are using the same panels but ar ehaving issues of banding whereas the sonys are having clouding and each are using their own software its possible.
post #3848 of 9118
can you guys post up the number you are calling? I cant find my post with the request I made for that number.


Thnx in advance.
post #3849 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Sorry. I wasn't clear in my post. She didn't say she was shipping it out to me right now. She said it will ship to me before the end of January - so in the nex two weeks. Sorry for the confusion.

What do you think about them telling me my set is in the affected group?

Cool, off the phone now, got an order number and reference number. The rep said 7-10 business days to receive the "patch."
post #3850 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by riotj View Post

Call in as I did so that there is strength in numbers

I'm on my third cloudy 2500 from BB: one Oct '06, and two Dec '06. I finally decided to call Sony. I described the problem as being the same as that of the XBR's for which a patch has been issued. She said that they don't show this problem as being associated with the 2500, then directed me to contact a local service center for an in-home inspection. 2500 owners, PLEASE call Sony if your set is affected!
post #3851 of 9118
I don't know how you guys are getting orders in for the firmware update. I've called twice now and have been told they're not taking orders yet. I just got off the phone with Sony CS and the guy told me to go here

http://www.updatemytv.com/

When they're ready to ship the update the XBR2/3 should show up there and we should be able to put in the necessary information to get the update.
post #3852 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I don't know how you guys are getting orders in for the firmware update. I've called twice now and have been told they're not taking orders yet. I just got off the phone with Sony CS and the guy told me to go here

http://www.updatemytv.com/

When they're ready to ship the update the XBR2/3 should show up there and we should be able to put in the necessary information to get the update.

Try Sonystyle at 1-877-600-9360 and choose technical support. That's where I went, and I had to educate him at first, then he appeared to be on the right page.
post #3853 of 9118
A quick update as of a few minutes ago. For what it's worth, I just spoke with "Grace" at the 18002227696 customer support line. After wading through "Max" the automated attendant I was talking to a real person, Grace.

My call to CS was to report that I had tried the settings recommended to me yesterday by "Chad" at the same 800 number. Garce told me that my KDL-46XBR3 was indeed a defective set and that Sony would be sending out a software update. I then told her that it wouldn't be necessary since I will be returning the set to the retailer for a new exchange. I told her that the retiler has quoted a Jan. 25 shipping date so I would not be receiving a set from the retailer's existing stock. It was then I asked her, since the existing sets were being remidied by a software update, would the new panels come with the same software update or would the update be installed at the factory? She said that the batch effected by the clouding issue (her words!) would only need the software update and the new sets would be updated at the factory.

It's my guess that someone will get an entire different story if they were to call CS at this point in the game. I'd love to hear others' experiences when reporting their cloudy issue XBR.[/quote]


Here's my experience with CS yesterday and earlier today regarding the patch. The CS rep was ready to confirm my address when I told her that I was going to return the tv. With that, it appears that they are compiling owners who will be sent the FW update.

And yes, she indeed did say that new sets produced would include the fix from the factory.

Again, I think we'll get as many different answer variations as there are Sony reps answering the phone.
post #3854 of 9118
For some reason I didn't do the quote thing the correct way.

My earlier post today started with "A quick update..." and ended with "...cloudy issue XBR"

Sorry for the confusion.
post #3855 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxa16 View Post

I'm on my third cloudy 2500 from BB: one Oct '06, and two Dec '06. I finally decided to call Sony. I described the problem as being the same as that of the XBR's for which a patch has been issued. She said that they don't show this problem as being associated with the 2500, then directed me to contact a local service center for an in-home inspection. 2500 owners, PLEASE call Sony if your set is affected!

Of course they don't. Why would they admit there is a problem on other models unless we complain. They know full well at Sony (not saying that support does but someone does) that other models are affected in the same way as the xbr models. It's a shame that they will only acknowledge a problem if enough people complain. I think I'm just going to exchange my 2500 for a different model and be done with it. I have no intention of playing games with Sony. It's bad enough I had to go through the hassell of returning my 1st 2500 to the store with a more than unwilling manager the 1st time. Now I more than likely will have to do it again...

Maybe I should just go back to my 27" Toshiba CRT
post #3856 of 9118
Andrew,

I found some of your earlier post a bit too intense, but I respect and appreciate the tone and approach in this one. Keep it up.

Not saying I agree with all the thoughts you have shared, but I still respect and value you sharing you thoughts when it's done in this manner.

I think it would be useful for a few folks with CLEAR sets to call the number and see if we can get Sony to confirm that their sets are NOT affected.

~gs2gf
post #3857 of 9118
One wonders what the response would be if an owner with a non-cloudy XBR called up claiming the mura defect. Would it still be "part of the batch/serials affected by the clouding issue"? One wonders indeed.
post #3858 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP View Post

One wonders what the response would be if an owner with a non-cloudy XBR called up claiming the mura defect. Would it still be "part of the batch/serials affected by the clouding issue"? One wonders indeed.

irunnoft, who has a clear set, called earlier today and yes that was their response.
post #3859 of 9118
This cloudy panel issues reminds me of the streaks and my pioneer elite set a few years back. I went thru 3 fixes in a 1.5 year period. too long in my opinion now that I reflect back. to make matters worse the grey scale was compromised even after following a simple procedure to repair the issue. From what I understand, there is a class action suit against pioneer regarding the streak issue.

then it was streaks...now it is clouds.

I purchased a 32" xbr2 just after xmas. Went thru 3 sets. the 3rd set was the best of the bunch. did not look at the build date.

If the 3rd set was bad...the set would have been returned for refund. And I would have to force myself to be patient while this issues clears itself out.

I suffered long enough with the pioneer streak issue and I was not going to tolerate the latest cloud issue.

The sony is a great set...but not worth the aggrevation.
post #3860 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seether4113 View Post

irunnoft, who has a clear set, called earlier today and yes that was their response.

I wonder if you gave Sony a fake seriel number if they would still tell you that you had one of the affected sets?
post #3861 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP View Post

One wonders what the response would be if an owner with a non-cloudy XBR called up claiming the mura defect. Would it still be "part of the batch/serials affected by the clouding issue"? One wonders indeed.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that if I were to call in with a cloudless set to see if my serial number was "affected" and the said it was, I would probably scrutinize my set and never be able to enjoy it again. Any time I saw a galaxy in space or a cloudy night sky, I would have to pause, rewind, shut the lights off, compare with another set and, eventually, suffer a stroke.

But that's just the way I'm wired.
post #3862 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seether4113 View Post

irunnoft, who has a clear set, called earlier today and yes that was their response.


Yep, I called in and they told me my set was in the batch of serial numbers for receiving the USB fix. I considered this funny since my TV doesn't have clouds. However, now that I think about it, I think they have just compiled a list for serial numbers ranging, most likely, from when they halted production to make the fix back to the first units produced. I don't think they have serial numbers for TVs that are cloudless. I think they just know the range of numbers for the run from July up until December. In other words, I think any TV not rolling off the factory assembly line with the new FW installed is going to be on this list to receive the update. Just my thoughts. At least I can have the USB update in case any clouds develop in the future. I like that idea a lot better than spending $500 on a CC service plan! The only reason I was considering an extended service plan was due to the clouding.
post #3863 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvendio View Post

I wonder if you gave Sony a fake seriel number if they would still tell you that you had one of the affected sets?


Um, no. They know whether a serial number is fake or not. They would also know whether the TV was registered to you or not.
post #3864 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Sorry. I wasn't clear in my post. She didn't say she was shipping it out to me right now. She said it will ship to me before the end of January - so in the nex two weeks. Sorry for the confusion.

What do you think about them telling me my set is in the affected group?

Sounds to me like the firmware will be for all sets, you just need to call and they will send it. I am willing to bet that anyone can call and get it, and the so called list of affected sets is any set from the XBR2/3 line.
post #3865 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP View Post

One wonders what the response would be if an owner with a non-cloudy XBR called up claiming the mura defect. Would it still be "part of the batch/serials affected by the clouding issue"? One wonders indeed.

You'll have to admit that we've gone a bit wacky on this thread, but I thought I was really losing it tonight when I called Sony Support, described the problem with my 40"XBR2, gave the representative my serial number, told her that I was aware there were a range of serial numbers affected, and that a firmware patch was available and asked if my set was included among those affected (it does have clouding by the way but moderately so). After holding on for some time she came back to tell me that my set was NOT among those in the affected serial numbers! I was startled to say the least. She told me that the problem with the sets was that they had "incomplete" software. I asked her if there was range of production dates in which the serial numbers fell: she told me March 2005 to March 2006!!!! So I told her there must be some mistake and she came back after putting me on hold to apologize and tell me that my set WAS among those affected. They are going to send me a customer installed upgrade. It should arrive in 7 - 10 days (part #799860470).

I asked if all the new sets would have this new firmware and was told yes they would. I asked if it would affect the quality of the picture and was told that it should not. I asked if it would be reversible and didn't get an answer. When I asked what would happen if I applied the update and I didn't like the way it affected my picture I was told I could call for service.

It would be very interesting to know if in fact all the new sets being produced were being shipped with the new firmware. Is there a way to check the version of the firmware? I asked the service rep and was told only a technician could check this out.

For what it's worth the Sony service rep was very supportive and helpful and I am optimistic that Sony will stand behind this product. I am not sure that I want to be the first to install this update, however, as I like the picture on my set very much.
post #3866 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambot View Post

I don't know about you guys, but I think that if I were to call in with a cloudless set to see if my serial number was "affected" and the said it was, I would probably scrutinize my set and never be able to enjoy it again. Any time I saw a galaxy in space or a cloudy night sky, I would have to pause, rewind, shut the lights off, compare with another set and, eventually, suffer a stroke.

But that's just the way I'm wired.


Not me, sweet baby! I just hung up and laughed! They don't have a "good" list or "bad" list based on serial numbers. If they did, then they would have had foreknowledge that they were building defective sets. That would just be trouble for them. I think they're going to say that everybody's set is affected if it was built within July - December or very recently. Anyhow, I'm going back to watch BSG sans the clouds, baby! The only scrutinizing, pausing, and rewinding I plan to do is when Tricia Helfer graces that 1080p in her skimpy red dress!
post #3867 of 9118
Well, I've discovered some interesting side effects with my slightly clouded 46XBR3.

Specifically, as I've mentioned, I found that turning the brightness way up (75 or so) eliminated the clouds. However, this kind of kills the "deep blacks" for which the set is supposed to be famous.

But here's the kicker...watching the Star Wars intro, the starfield does not become fully visible until the brightness is cranked to 65 or so. Increasing the backlight does not help. At 51 brightness (the most common setting), I'd say more than half of the stars vanish. the blacks become totally crushed and the picture looks horrible. With the brightness turned up the blacks are much less deep, but otherwise the picture is outstanding and the clouds are gone.

So this is a new wrinkle. Perhaps the clouds are indicative of a more general problem with the crystals.

Any thoughts?
post #3868 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp29k View Post

I appreciate the welcome, thanks. I don't want anyone to think that I side with Sony on this one. I have been following this thread since the beginning, as I have been researching an HDTV for months. I thought I had decided on the KDL-46V2500, but after reading this I don't want the hassle. You have to understand, I have been a loyal Sony customer since as long as I can remember. I had a boombox @ 8 years old that refused to die, and from then on I have purchased Sony TV, Vaio computer, VCR, DVD player, Home theater sysyem, PS2, Sony Handycam, Sony digital camera, (if they sold Sony cheese I would probably shun Velveeta for it). It was hard for me to read the denials by Sony when the problem is so clear. My concern (and reason for posting after lurking for months) was that finally when Sony has released information about a possible solution, and has admitted that there is an issue with this set, people are still not happy, and in fact are intent to spread false information about what this patch will or will not do (when no one really knows at this point). I do not have any delusions that a software patch can cure a hardware issue, but I get the impression that some folks on here will not be satisfied unless Sony's CEO comes to their house (or their boat :-), issues an apology and presents them with a hand picked diamond encrusted panel. I just hope people realize that it is a HUGE step that Sony is admitting fault, and have proposed a potential fix.

Again, I was disgusted by the early response by Sony, and am glad that I didn't pull the trigger on this set. I am looking to upgrade my A/V receiver and DVD player soon, and am hesitant to go Sony after reading this. Thanks to everyone who is dedicated to updating this thread, and thanks to the Mods for keeping us on topic.

Personally I think that the post earlier in this thread (40 or so pages back) that speculated about a sizing issue with the protective panel is probably the most likely cause of the clouds... if that is the case, shame on Sony for trying to dupe you all with a nifty looking USB keyfob. BUT, I will reserve judgement until the first brave soul takes the Sony red pill and lets us all know how deep the rabbit hole goes.


MP29K,

No problems and nothing intended personally. I too have really backed Sony with many electronic purchases, which is what made all this SO very frustrating. Likewise I think the issue is still one that is more physical in nature (although someone said Sony told them the SW was incomplete on these sets???).

Realistically though, despite all the good things being said here about Sony, they have not admitted there is a flaw or defect.. Their statement does not say that either the settings adjustment OR the patch will eliminate the issue. So I'm not sure if someone was very careful about the wording or not.

As I said in my post, it was refreshing to hear them acknowledge when I called in, that I actually had some level of intelligence and wasn't making this up! That said, if it is hardware related, it goes back to your accurate "cost to them" discussion. They can probably build these key fobs for pennies, so a SW patch and distribution, in my mind, is the much less expensive way to go (as opposed to lots of folks demanding and getting new sets).

I still wish I knew when these started to ship with the flaw and what the change was at that point... Oh, to be able to go back in time and be there!

Jay S.
post #3869 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

The only scrutinizing, pausing, and rewinding I plan to do is when Tricia Helfer graces that 1080p in her skimpy red dress!

Well said, good man!
post #3870 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunnoft View Post

Yep, I called in and they told me my set was in the batch of serial numbers for receiving the USB fix. I considered this funny since my TV doesn't have clouds. However, now that I think about it, I think they have just compiled a list for serial numbers ranging, most likely, from when they halted production to make the fix back to the first units produced. I don't think they have serial numbers for TVs that are cloudless. I think they just know the range of numbers for the run from July up until December. In other words, I think any TV not rolling off the factory assembly line with the new FW installed is going to be on this list to receive the update. Just my thoughts. At least I can have the USB update in case any clouds develop in the future. I like that idea a lot better than spending $500 on a CC service plan! The only reason I was considering an extended service plan was due to the clouding.

This is what I was thinking... thanks for calling btw!
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