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Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post



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Whoa dude, that's pretty bad. I'll post my 46" tonight.
post #62 of 9118
Just found out Sony customer service is different from Sony technical support. I've been calling customer service. I guess technical support is who to call. In fact, I just got of the phone with a nice guy named Chad. I'm going to e-mail him photos of my set and he's going to get an engineer to look at them.

I'll send him the link to this thread so get your pics posted.
post #63 of 9118
Thread Starter 
my THIRD XBR2 came in today! Sept build. Guess what? UNEVEN Backlight!!! It isn't as bad as the last two sets, but I think I'm going to have Sony repair come in and take a look at it.
post #64 of 9118
Can you take a picture and post it? Sony tech support is going to arrange an exchange through a local reseller to capture my set and see what's going on.
post #65 of 9118
Hi folks,

I've been reading about this issue on AVSForum for about a week or so now and it's been very helpful. Thanks to all of you for posting your stories and pictures.

I just got my TV about two weeks ago and noticed the problem about three days after I had it. I watch a lot of sci-fi, and it was a space scene that really brought my attention to the clouding/backlight problem.

Unfortunately, returning the set is not an option for me. I bought mine from an online retailer in New York (TVCity.tv), and while they were willing to do an exchange, I would have to eat the $600+ in shipping charges. Ouch.

My only recourse was to contact a Sony Authorized Repair Center here in Pittsburgh. They have been very easy to work with so far, and I hope they're able to resolve this one way or another. They said that Sony "doesn't know anything about this problem" and that they need pictures of the thing in action so that Sony can see the problem for themselves. I'll let you know what they have to say about it.

In the meantime, my pictures are attached below. Again, low light conditions, and these look a bit worse than it does in person due to the low shudder speed, but it's still a problem nonetheless. Build date is October 2006.

Thanks again to all of you.

mp
post #66 of 9118
Could this be a condensation issue?

The summer/early fall sets are OK as they shipped and delivered in warm weather, but the current sets are going between cold/warm environments and getting condensation within?
post #67 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutedpanic View Post

I just got my TV about two weeks ago and noticed the problem about three days after I had it. I watch a lot of sci-fi, and it was a space scene that really brought my attention to the clouding/backlight problem.

In the meantime, my pictures are attached below. Again, low light conditions, and these look a bit worse than it does in person due to the low shudder speed, but it's still a problem nonetheless. Build date is October 2006.

Thanks again to all of you.

mp

WOW!! That's way worse than mine. Excellent job on the pictures. The best I've seen showing the problem. I e-mailed pictures of my set to Sony tech support and they're going to arrange a replacement so they can capture mine. I was told to get to the right people to call customer service (1-800-222-7669) and ask to speak to a product specialist. Give it a try.
post #68 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutedpanic View Post

They said that Sony "doesn't know anything about this problem"

It is hard to believe they don't know about the problem...that doesn't seem credible. I think they are told to say that.
post #69 of 9118
So I returned my second cloudy XBR2 today, and I am not getting another one. I'm sick and tired of the hassle, the worry, and talking to Sony reps that treat us like idiots. Also, not to mention the embarrassment of showing up at best buy to return a second unit for the same problem. Anyways, BB was very nice and understanding. I'm going to wait and see if the problem is resolved withing the next month or so. If not, then I'll probably end up getting a Pioneer plasma or a Sharp D62U (yes I know about the banding issues, but at least Sharp has acknowledged the problem, which mean they will be fixed in the near future)
post #70 of 9118
I have a KDL-40V2500 and have the exact same cloudy issue on my set. It would be fine if the set was cloudy only when on a blank input, but it disturbs movies in dark scenes (especially when the viewer knows it is there). I am going to exchange the set at Best Buy, but do you all recommend that I try the same model, or possibly go for the Aquos or Sammy. I have read horror stories about the Sharp's banding, and the Sammy has some significant overscanning/color issues. I am really in a pickle with the options.
post #71 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrowe View Post

I have a KDL-40V2500 and have the exact same cloudy issue on my set. It would be fine if the set was cloudy only when on a blank input, but it disturbs movies in dark scenes (especially when the viewer knows it is there). I am going to exchange the set at Best Buy, but do you all recommend that I try the same model, or possibly go for the Aquos or Sammy. I have read horror stories about the Sharp's banding, and the Sammy has some significant overscanning/color issues. I am really in a pickle with the options.

The issue with overscan on the Sammy is not "significant" but rather "blown out of proportion. It's no better or worse than any other LCD panel over the past 5 years. Only the Sharp and Sony panels have the zero overscan mode anyway.

However, that said, the Sammy is the exact same panel as the Sony, so (as you can see by my photo earlier) it could very well have the exact same issue.

I currently have the Aquos, and while I do have banding that Sharp has already agreed will definitely get fixed with a new set, as it is I find the subtle banding a lot less objectionable than the splotchy spots all over the screen that I got with my three different Samsungs.
post #72 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by trendscape View Post

I don't believe you can draw that conclusion from this poll, sorry! By flushing out the defective panels, you're skewing results significantly. There are probably tons of people with good LCDs who are not inclined to post or who just like to lurk.


I agree. I voted yes (for a v2500) but don't consider it a problem at all with my set. I turned all the lights off and set to unused input -- looking directly at the screen it seemed fairly even. From the side, however, I could see a lighter vertical band and more diffuse unevenness as I moved back and forth. So why don't I consider it a problem? Because I consider the pq to be very even and solid to the point of seeming almost tangible when not looking at unused input w/ the lights off.

And my laptop's sharp 15.4" wide uxga screen shows the same effect -- actually worse. Yet, in 3 years, it never crossed my mind this was an issue.

I actually question the poll responses from those who claim their sets are perfect -- I've never seen _any_ lcd that isn't cloudy.

I'm not even sure, on the v2500, whether the unevenness is due to the backlight or just the screen not being perfectly flat... the slightest bit off and the screen contrast will differ when looking from the side under these extreme conditions.

I suspect some do have acute unevenness that is noticeable w/ regular video; but some may be getting worked up over a typical lcd thing.
post #73 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

While it's debatable as to wether of not your claim is true (I have never seen backlight problems with an LCD prior to my 46XBR2 purchase)...

Have you actually looked? Because the lcd's I've looked at (laptop and work) since this cloudiness issue was raised most definitely show unevenness -- and these are highly rated sharp and dell screens/monitors.

If you have seen perfect evenness w/ another lcd w/ no lights on and a blank screen (and the backlight not turned off of course), then what make and model? That'd be impressive and of interest to many of us.
post #74 of 9118
Something worth noting. I found that by use of a microfiber cloth, I could move, or spread out , the clouds in the screen. After a little gentle work, some of the clouds are much better, however the larger ones are still viewable (esp. in the letter box area ) during viewing. Thought some people might want to give it a shot.
post #75 of 9118
I'm looking at my 32S2000 right now and it looks great. No noticeable backlight problems. I see a nice uniform blackness across the entire panel. This is what I want my 46XBR2 to look like.

It's not an issue of minor uneven backlighting. I could handle that. I think a lot of us could. What we're seeing with these 46XBR2s, in my opinion, is VERY excessive and far out of the range of what should be considered acceptable for a TV that costs as much as it does. If you haven't, look at the pictures posted by mutedpanic and tell us if you think that's acceptable.
post #76 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

I agree. I voted yes (for a v2500) but don't consider it a problem at all with my set. I turned all the lights off and set to unused input -- looking directly at the screen it seemed fairly even. From the side, however, I could see a lighter vertical band and more diffuse unevenness as I moved back and forth. So why don't I consider it a problem? Because I consider the pq to be very even and solid to the point of seeming almost tangible when not looking at unused input w/ the lights off.

And my laptop's sharp 15.4" wide uxga screen shows the same effect -- actually worse. Yet, in 3 years, it never crossed my mind this was an issue.

I actually question the poll responses from those who claim their sets are perfect -- I've never seen _any_ lcd that isn't cloudy.

I'm not even sure, on the v2500, whether the unevenness is due to the backlight or just the screen not being perfectly flat... the slightest bit off and the screen contrast will differ when looking from the side under these extreme conditions.

I suspect some do have acute unevenness that is noticeable w/ regular video; but some may be getting worked up over a typical lcd thing.

These photos are not "unused inputs with the lights off". For a great many of us, we tend to watch dark material ALL THE TIME. I know that personally one of my favorite shows is Battlestar Galactica and during any space scene the splotches were readily noticeable. Likewise, a movie like Sin City or Batman Begins makes them show up all the time, becoming incredibly distracting. As for your laptop, the only thing I can say is that perhaps you SHOULD have had it cross your mind that it was an issue. LCD's are not supposed to have huge hazy splotches all over them, to think that is normal is to presume incorrectly. What is seen in these photos is something completely different than "uneven backlighting". I've had three Viewsonic panels, two Samsungs, and one Dell branded one over the years... and though they've all have had noticeable backlight leakage from either the edges or the corners, none of them have ever displayed this splotchy haze that all the photos in this thread are showing.

Honestly, can you look at the photos in post #65 and say that that is acceptable performance from a 4,000 dollar piece of electronics?? I'm getting so tired of all these arguments that are making excuses for these companies by simply saying "eh, that's what LCDs are like"... no, it's really not. I've never seen an LCD panel below the 40" size range display these banding and splotchy issues that seem to be plaguing the 46"+ sets. That tells me that this is not something that should just be accepted by the consumer, but rather should be REJECTED until the manufacturer gets it right. It is ridiculous to say that we should settle for these defective units simply because we're on the bleeding edge... I'm not paying 4,200 dollars for the opportunity to beta test Sony and Samsung's hardware. If they had acknowledged the problem, I wouldn't have minded so much... at least Sharp acknowledges their banding issue. But to be treated the way I was by Samsung tech support is unacceptable, and they've just lost all future business from me (and anyone I can influence) because of it.
post #77 of 9118
Well said tmeader. Well said.
post #78 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

Honestly, can you look at the photos in post #65 and say that that is acceptable performance from a 4,000 dollar piece of electronics?? I'm getting so tired of all these arguments that are making excuses for these companies by simply saying "eh, that's what LCDs are like"... no, it's really not. I've never seen an LCD panel below the 40" size range display these banding and splotchy issues that seem to be plaguing the 46"+ sets. That tells me that this is not something that should just be accepted by the consumer, but rather should be REJECTED until the manufacturer gets it right. It is ridiculous to say that we should settle for these defective units simply because we're on the bleeding edge... I'm not paying 4,200 dollars for the opportunity to beta test Sony and Samsung's hardware. If they had acknowledged the problem, I wouldn't have minded so much... at least Sharp acknowledges their banding issue. But to be treated the way I was by Samsung tech support is unacceptable, and they've just lost all future business from me (and anyone I can influence) because of it.

Of course it is not acceptable. What people are saying is this is not a new problem. Furthermore, until the customer (you) start complaining loudly enough (or in great enough numbers) the manufacturer won't make it a priority to control this issue on the manufacturing line. I think with the recent attention this is getting that stance will change and "cloudiness" will become a defect that takes priority.

I've seen the cloudiness on the Sony and Samsung models in the stores and it is the exact same problem my dell 19" monitor has but to a greater degree. Whether it is an uneven screen or diffuser or whatever, the backlight intensity is uneven across the screen. Maybe it is worse with the larger panels because the diffuser is larger and prone to larger variations?

Also, notice how all the ratings for LCDs big and small are now including backlight uniformity as an performance attribute. The problem with that is it will not be consistant from unit to unit.

Cheers
post #79 of 9118
I went to CC last night and told them about the cloudiness problem on my set. They were very understanding and offered a replacement set. I told them about how this problem appears to have cropped up since September and almost all sets made in October seem to have this problem. Thus a replacement set would very likely still have the same problem.

While I was there, I also compared what they had on display and noticed that the 46 XBR 2 CC had on display was not cloudy (luckily they had the XBR2 in a darkened area of the store) but perfectly uniform black! That made me feel pretty good since I was wondering if I was going crazy with this debate about whether LCDs are just supposed to be blotchy and we should accept it to those like myself who feel this is unacceptable and a manufacturing flaw. I had almost considered just living with it. I'm glad I didn't! And seeing a GOOD XBR 2 reinforced my opinion that the sets built in the fall ARE defective!

Anyhow, I had the sales guy look behind the set and check the manufacture date - it was made in July 2006. I then asked if it would be possible to swap my set for the one they have on display and they sounded like they might do it. I'm still waiting for the sales guy to call me back to arrange for delivery. That's about the only way I can see getting an XBR 2 w/o this cloudiness problem.

I'll let you know what happens.
post #80 of 9118
So what is a good procedure to test for "cloudiness" on these sets?
post #81 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

So what is a good procedure to test for "cloudiness" on these sets?

Turn on the TV and wait 30 - 60 seconds. Darken the room. Switch to an input with no signal (i.e. device connected to the input is turned off so you just see a black backgroud). Sit in front of the TV and just look. You'll know if you see it. From the pictures I've seen, if there's a problem it'll be the more pronounced in the corners. Use the pictures posted here as a guide and for comparison.
post #82 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlite View Post

So what is a good procedure to test for "cloudiness" on these sets?

The best way is to wait until night time or do this in a completely darkened room.

Then do the following:

1) Let the set run for about an hour to let it warm up and "energize" the screen. I know my cloudiness doesn't really show up until after an hour worth of watching.

2) Select a source where you currently have no input coming in - VCR for example with the VCR turned off.

3) Turn off the lights and there you have it.

I've noted that it doesn't amtter what backlight level you have it set to or what power saver mode you have set - the cloudiness is still apparent at least on my set.
post #83 of 9118
Based on these issues, would you still purchase this TV if you could do it all over again? I have an order pending for this TV, and I am starting to second guess my decision...
post #84 of 9118
I understand that electronics have problems. To me, it's not so much the problems but how the company responds and deals with the problems. So far Sony's been great to work with. It took a little while to get to the right people but I now feel like things are moving along and the issue can be resolved. Let me be straight. I love this TV. The hi-def picture is beautiful and it looks great hanging on the wall. It's got a bevy of inputs for future expansion and the list goes on. I want to keep it.

To answer your question. Seeing what I've seen being an owner of this set and seeing what other users are experiencing I would hold off on buying the set unless you can see the set you're buying in a low light room to verify the uniformity of the backlight and make sure it's not excessively problematic.
post #85 of 9118
I've been following this issue with interest and can empathize with those who are experiencing excessive cloudiness/uneven backlight leakage with their expensive LCDs. Likewise, I am also frustrated that some people who posted in another thread just didn't understand the problem and were dismissing it by saying that it is normal because "all LCDs are like that." They certainly have no clue.

As I mentioned in a past thread, my 32" Sony LCD (model KLV32M1, made in Japan, July 2005 build date) which I bought in Sept '05 had very noticable uneven backlight leakage. It had 4 palm-sized clouds around 6" from each corner. These clouds were CLEARLY visible with regular TV/DVD programing whenever there were dark scenes or black backgrounds. For instance, it was extremely distracting to see these clouds surrounding the words "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." at the very beginning of Star Wars.

Lucky for me, the problem remedied itself when I laid the set face down on a table, removed/reinstalled the back cover, and then stood it back upright. I did this out of curiosity because I wanted to see how the inside looks like. As I mentioned in the past thread, I hypothesize that this laying down may have "destressed" localized pressure points along the screen which may be causing the light patches or clouds. Just a guess.

To this day, my set still looks really good. Below is a link to a pic that I took of my screen under "extreme" conditions: the picture was taken in a completely dark room and the BACKLIGHT was at "10," which is the max setting. Other than the small patches at the upper corners, the backlight leakage/bleeding looks pretty darn uniform.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...9/IMG_2815.jpg

I hope you guys can get this issue resolved with Sony.
post #86 of 9118
I'm glad I decided to poke around here before I actually purchased a 46XBR2. I had all but made up my mind until finding this thread. Then I ran across the "Official owners thread" on this site (apparently I can't post a reply containing a url since I'm new)
Check out the pictures... it's extremely funny to me given the context of this thread! Thanks to everyone who's shared their experiences with their set... it's a real help to us considering one.

Dan O
post #87 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

I've been following this issue with interest and can empathize with those who are experiencing excessive cloudiness/uneven backlight leakage with their expensive LCDs. Likewise, I am also frustrated that some people who posted in another thread just didn't understand the problem and were dismissing it by saying that it is normal because "all LCDs are like that." They certainly have no clue.

As I mentioned in a past thread, my 32" Sony LCD (model KLV32M1, made in Japan, July 2005 build date) which I bought in Sept '05 had very noticable uneven backlight leakage. It had 4 palm-sized clouds around 6" from each corner. These clouds were CLEARLY visible with regular TV/DVD programing whenever there were dark scenes or black backgrounds. For instance, it was extremely distracting to see these clouds surrounding the words "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." at the very beginning of Star Wars.

Lucky for me, the problem remedied itself when I laid the set face down on a table, removed/reinstalled the back cover, and then stood it back upright. I did this out of curiosity because I wanted to see how the inside looks like. As I mentioned in the past thread, I hypothesize that this laying down may have "destressed" localized pressure points along the screen which may be causing the light patches or clouds. Just a guess.

To this day, my set still looks really good. Below is a link to a pic that I took of my screen under "extreme" conditions: the picture was taken in a completely dark room and the BACKLIGHT was at "10," which is the max setting. Other than the small patches at the upper corners, the backlight leakage/bleeding looks pretty darn uniform.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...9/IMG_2815.jpg

I hope you guys can get this issue resolved with Sony.

This is exactly how my 46XBR3 looks as well w/the brightness cranked. Very uniform w/just a hint of corner leakage - but I'm not using these settings so when set to a "normal" setting, it's 100% linear and very dark.

I will say that the clouding that I'm seeing here is an issue, and if that was my panel exhibiting this behavior I'd take it back as well; but I'm not sure how wide spread this issue is. I'd say it's no where near the Sharp banding issue.
post #88 of 9118
I've looked at the pictures posted and they seem to have the brightness at MAX and the backlight to MAX. I do not think many will ever use those settings. My experience with LCDs are that you will see this if MAX settings are used. However, if you truely see this with normal (defaulted) settings or with calibrated settings then you should take the set back. I have this set and do not see anything like the pictures posted and I'm very happy with the HDTV PQ. I highly recommend evaluating potential HDTVs at a high quality B&M and compare/contrast each yourself. Use these forums as research but take them with a grain of salt. Only you can determine the truth through you're own eyes.
post #89 of 9118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC333 View Post

I've looked at the pictures posted and they seem to have the brightness at MAX and the backlight to MAX.

Mine is set to Backlight 4 and Brightness 55. Very noticeable at those settings.
post #90 of 9118
Well, I finally decided I had had enough waiting on Sharp to make a statement, or even to fix, their banding problem and bought a 46XBR2 at CC tonight.

Got it home and watched Medium via Tivo Series3 and lo and behold there are clouds in dark scenes. It looks very much like the pictures posted (see below). It is unrelated to Backlight or Brightness settings.

I will be returning this one....the hunt begins.

-Tom
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