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Next Weekend: First VP Shootout: Vantage-HD vs. VP50 vs. Crystalio II VPS3300 - Page 2

post #31 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Adams View Post

To be fair, so does the Lumagen. In particular, users are reporting that it's a bit over-zealous in locking to a 2:2 cadence. That approach may work fine with film-sourced material, but with video the result is that it gets a lot of false 2:2 positives which cause combing and/or stuttering motion. Based on the user reports I've seen on the AVForums board, the VP50 is much better than the Lumagen processors in this respect.

I agree with Dale on this one. I too have heard that we need a less-agressive film-lock mode for 50 Hertz video. With the current code we stay in film lock better than the other scalers (great for watching film), but we are planning a less agressive mode with a more video bias. There already is a "video only" mode for when the source is known to be video (=VIDEO for SD and either VIDNC or VIDPP for HD), but we are planning a new auto mode biased more toward video.

----

Mark:
We are sending a VisionHDQ out today by 2-day air, so you should have it in time for the shoot-out.
post #32 of 209
This is going to be great. Having owned the VisionHDP for over a year and the VP30 for a few months and now the VantageHD for 5 months, I think I know which I prefer I think Lumagen Scaling quality is still one of the best in the market. Its film deinterlacing is already right up there too. I know that if the HDP had video diagonal filtering, it would still be with me. I watch too much TV and sports to do without some sort of diagonal filtering. The calibration adjustments it has will also really help you dial in the perfect gamma and greyscale like no other processer can. Sigh.... I do miss my HDP

Now only if they hurry up with their new boxes. Looking forward to reading about this shootout.

Oliver
post #33 of 209
Nice one guys - should be a fun day. Remember us PAL guys

Make sure it's the latest firmware on them all, as features and fixes are coming thick and fast to the new releases. A week could mean 48Hz on CII, Prep on VP50, etc, etc. (or it could not obviously).

Looking forward to reading all about it!
post #34 of 209
I get the replacement VP50 on Friday. Of course, I will have to switch out the SDI board from he defective VP50 to the new one. Only tkes a few minutes. SO we will have 4 video processors to test. The Crystalio, the Vantage, the VP50, and the Lumagen HDQ.
post #35 of 209
This is great as I have been thinking of picking up a processor. Will be waiting eagerly for your appraisal.
post #36 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I get the replacement VP50 on Friday. Of course, I will have to switch out the SDI board from he defective VP50 to the new one. Only tkes a few minutes. SO we will have 4 video processors to test. The Crystalio, the Vantage, the VP50, and the Lumagen HDQ.

Nice list, the only thing missing in this list is a DragonFly.
post #37 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

I agree with Dale on this one. I too have heard that we need a less-agressive film-lock mode for 50 Hertz video. With the current code we stay in film lock better than the other scalers (great for watching film), but we are planning a less agressive mode with a more video bias. There already is a "video only" mode for when the source is known to be video (=VIDEO for SD and either VIDNC or VIDPP for HD), but we are planning a new auto mode biased more toward video.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. This has always been one of the problems with 2:2 detection - i.e., that it's possible to mistake true interlaced video for 2:2 due to the inaccuracies in correlating 2 fields which are not spatially coincident. And this has only been compounded recently due to the rising incidence of false 2:2 signatures induced by digital compression, where parts of the image which have little motion are updated every other field, while portions with a larger degree of motion are updated every field.

- Dale Adams
post #38 of 209
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

Nice list, the only thing missing in this list is a DragonFly.

The Vantage will have to stand in for the Realta on this one-- sorry. Its taken a long time just to get all of these processors into one place. All the dealers seem to handle one or the other and many don't carry the Crystalio or the Vantage.

Tom-- will you be loading the latest Vantage firmware before Sunday?

Lore
post #39 of 209
Thread Starter 
If any of you have suggestions/guidance on testing these devices methodically-- give us a post here.

Also-- If you have suggestions on DVD's or HD-DVD's you would like us to run-- please post the movie, DVD or HD-DVD, and specific chapter/scene that gives processors fits. I have about 40 HD-DVDs and a lot more DVD's -- so I may have what you are suggesting.

Unfortunately Silicon Optix new HD-DVD test disk is not ready and has not been released. We'll just have the DVD version.
post #40 of 209
Thread Starter 
Here are the links to the processor manuals. Take a glance through them if you there are particular features/settings you want to see tested and post.

Crystalio II VPS 3300
http://www.crystalio.com/downloads/C...guide_v1.1.pdf
--------------------------
DVDO VP-50
http://www.dvdo.com/documents/DVDO_i...ABT_081706.pdf
--------------------------
Calibre Vantage-HD
http://www.calibreuk.com/documents/V...manual_121.pdf
--------------------------
Lumagen HDQ
http://www.lumagen.com/docs/VisionHDQ%20User%20Man.pdf
post #41 of 209
Doing this really well is going to be tedious and time-consuming.

I would suggest running a single test from the HQV Benchmark DVD and/or the test DVD that DVDO provides with the VP50 with one processor, change processor and then run the same test again until we've gone through all of the processors. Then, and only then, move on to the next test.

When we've finished looking at test patterns, then move on to actual program material using the same methodology.

- SD Video (DVD Concert Video)
- SD Film (DVD movie)
- HD Video (Broadcast HD video source, such as David Letterman and/or Jay Leno or HD DVD concert video, if one is available)
- HD Film (HD DVD film)
post #42 of 209
I'm looking forward to the results... thanks Guys!
post #43 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I get the replacement VP50 on Friday. Of course, I will have to switch out the SDI board from he defective VP50 to the new one. Only tkes a few minutes. SO we will have 4 video processors to test. The Crystalio, the Vantage, the VP50, and the Lumagen HDQ.

Mark,

This sounds more and more like a really worthwhile adventure. If for some reason you don't receive your new VP50 as expected - or it is DOA, etc - let me know and I will still loan you mine. My guests aren't sophisticated enough to probably notice if I switch from my Oppo @480i thru VP50 to my Pioneer Elite 79avi for upconverting any DVD's and my cable HDTV will suffice direct to my PJ. I can do without it for a couple of days. I live in the Pasadena area and can pretty easily get my unit to you at the last minute - as long as it is before the Ravens game at 1PM on Sunday (prefer Sat/Sat night). Just let me know if you want or need it. I have no video/banding/line issues, only the audio dropouts. So it should be a good test bed.

Ray
post #44 of 209
Thanks Ray. DVDO dealer sales sent one to me today 2 day air, so I should have it no sweat.

Because Saturday is a busy sales day at my store, I am limited to doing events such as this at my house to Sundays.

Actually, I rather be watching the Redskins and Ravens instead of screwing around with processors but hey duty calls. I'LL be dVRring the games.
post #45 of 209
I'll try to push the Crystalio II to have the 3/2 pulldown fix mentioned in this post before the shootout.

regards,

Li On
post #46 of 209
Looking forward to reading about the event (and the outcome!)
post #47 of 209
I'm really looking forward to this review too. If you guys want to fly out to San Diego and do it here I'll be happy to supply a couple of free donuts
post #48 of 209
Hi all,

It's kind of sad that I couldn't fly 20 hours to join the shootout party ... pls. keep the crowd posted of the results ASAP.

About the setup, I have a few suggestions:-

1. With a CRT, it should be fairly easy to test deinterlacing performance of all VPs alone. After this deinterlacing test, the winning VP(s) could then be daisy-chained via HDMI/DVI to the other VPs for up/down-scaling tests. This, IMHO, should be the fairest and should eliminate any ambiguity as to whether the artifacts are deinterlacing-oriented or scaling-orinted.
2. If at all possible, pls. include a test on the greatest looking combo - say VP1 for deinterlacing and VP2 for scaling - I'm thinking of keeping my HDP Pro as scaler and add a Realta-based or VXP-based VP as deinterlacer.
3. You guys may need a device to overcome the HDCP issue ... with the Toshiba HD-DVDP.
4. You guys will also need DVI-HDMI converters now that HDQ is in the test.

Just my 2 cents. Have fun.



AK
post #49 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post

We also support 24, 48, 60, and 72 Hertz output with correct cadence and stay in film lock exceptionally well.

Hi, thanks for posting here.
As far as I know, the HDP/HDQ is not able to output 24p yet, did I miss something ?
I know it's in progress on a future firmware update but not available yet.

Can you confirm ?

Thanks
post #50 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

SO we will have 4 video processors to test. The Crystalio, the Vantage, the VP50, and the Lumagen HDQ.

That is just perfect!

1x Gennum VXP
1x Realta HQV
1x ABT102 (HD)
1x Lumagen FPGA

post #51 of 209
Guys. I suspect this will be just a shake down. Tom, Lore, and I live close to eacy other. 20 minutes or so with me in the middle. My house is always open. So when we start testing and realize we are missing some converter or cable etc, we will be better set up the next time. Also we have had no time learning the Crystalio. It takes a while to set each processor up correctly for different modes etc. This is going to be a learning session for all of us. Definitive results will probably await a later shoot out session.
post #52 of 209
That's a good point Mark. I had each processor for a couple of weeks before I new the ins and outs. It's not like you can just hook them up and make a good observation quickly... But I did know the CII was something very special the first hour after I had it hooked up and going...
post #53 of 209
Have you guys got a solution for HDCP? As obviously you'll be feeding an analog display?

Also don't forget that the Lumagen, VP50 and CII have 5xBNCs and the Vantage has D-SUB analog out.
post #54 of 209
Thread Starter 
I'll have to dig out my HQV benchmark disk:

http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm

There is a written booklet that goes with it for evaluation.

For anyone coming to the shootout Sunday (including Tom & Mark), you may want to lookover this booklet in advance and print a copy out for your use:

http://www.hqv.com/contentEngine/dsp...3-f6ec25bf8781
post #55 of 209
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtimes View Post

Have you guys got a solution for HDCP? As obviously you'll be feeding an analog display?

Also don't forget that the Lumagen, VP50 and CII have 5xBNCs and the Vantage has D-SUB analog out.

There wont be sufficient time to test all the outputs on all the processors. I guess we'll have a discussion before we begin what we want to try in this first effort. As Mark said, this may be a warmup--but I would certainly like to get some data for comparison.
post #56 of 209
We have to use analog out only. I do not think we need to bother with sound at this go around, There are lots of tests other than the Silicon Optix tests. Those tests are weighted to score the Realta high.
post #57 of 209
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

We have to use analog out only. I do not think we need to bother with sound at this go around, There are lots of tests other than the Silicon Optix tests. Those tests are weighted to score the Realta high.

OK on the analog out.

I know I have also heard those RUMORS about the HQV disk but it would be interesting to compare the processors on some of those tests anyway and see if the HQV really does come out first. I don't know of anyone who has ran the HQV disc through 4 processors like this side-by-side. Anyway it will be your and Tom's call. I'll just be the notetaker.
post #58 of 209
If you can only use analog out then with the CII you will only be able to do 1080i out. And since 1080i deinterlacing is one of the biggest concerns for many (if not then shortly it will be) then I would wait until you can do HDMI out comparisons...
post #59 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

If you can only use analog out then with the CII you will only be able to do 1080i out. And since 1080i deinterlacing is one of the biggest concerns for many (if not then shortly it will be) then I would wait until you can do HDMI out comparisons...

That's not true at all for RGBHV - 1152p is perfectly possible as I've done it.
All of these processors and even the last-gen ones could output 1080p over analog RGBHV.
The only limitation is HDCP in = no analog out at all. But I guess they've got that covered.
post #60 of 209
I understand what you are saying but for them majority of new owners HDMI inputs and outputs are the most important. I know the crystalio II's HDMI input 1 gets top priority. If HDMI is not a top priority for new VPs then why are they starting to come with 4 hdmi inputs and 1 or 2 outputs. HDMI needs to be looked at if you are going to do any kind of real comparison between these VPs.. Analog is going extinct...
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