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New <$300 sub choices from Elemental Designs... - Page 3

post #61 of 1007
11/17/06 at 10:04am
What I find strange is in the specs for all of their subwoofers the frequency response is 18-100Hz +/-3dB. I would expect there to be a difference between the little A2-250, and huge A7-600 in terms of frequency response. They must have done their own testing of the subs, but the specs don't seem right.
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post #62 of 1007
11/17/06 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

WOW, for months i was limited to $300 and kept on wondering if i should really just go ahead and buy the BICH100, and the _WEEK_ my budget increases to $600 of course elemental comes out with a subwoofer that IMO blows away the h100 in every way possible (besides looks i guess). Amazing enclosure, amazing driver, nice amp, nice price, no dealing with ebay sellers and "best offer"... man

so...

can the A2-300 subwoofer really reach below 20hz!?!

someone buy it and post up a frequency chart puhleeeeeeze

yea, I hope so as well. claiming 18Hz-100Hz with only -/+ 3dB difference from I guess their average 114.8dB rating... sounds pretty nice.
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post #63 of 1007
11/17/06 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by afviper View Post

What I find strange is in the specs for all of their subwoofers the frequency response is 18-100Hz +/-3dB. I would expect there to be a difference between the little A2-250, and huge A7-600 in terms of frequency response. They must have done their own testing of the subs, but the specs don't seem right.

yea, but they all differ in average dB output. So to me, if they're fairly accurate, just means good design.
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post #64 of 1007
11/17/06 at 12:04pm
I just checked the status of my A2-300 and it's still in the woodshop.
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post #65 of 1007
11/17/06 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereojunkie View Post

Nice pics, I noticed that the amps on the two AS-300 were a bit different, I wonder if one is a newer model? Good stuff here, the one's who have ordered, I can't wait to hear members thoughts on these babies.

It looks like one is A2-300 with the 200w amp and the other A5-300 with the 500w amp.
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post #66 of 1007
11/17/06 at 12:38pm
Would an A2-300 go well with Insignias front and back?
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post #67 of 1007
11/17/06 at 1:49pm
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/index.php?cPath=2_41


on this page it has a picture of a clearly cube subwoofer for the A2-300 and lists these specs:
Model : A2 - 300 Subwoofer
Subwoofer Driver Size : 12"
Power : 200W - Dimensions : 20" H x 18" W x 20"D
Frequency Response : 18-100Hz - Weight : 68lb

but when you click on the A2-300 it clearly has a "shoebox" shape

and has these dimensions
Width 18.00""
Height 17.75""
Depth 20.00""

can someone please explain which it is??
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post #68 of 1007
11/17/06 at 1:58pm
Maybe the difference is with and without spikes?
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post #69 of 1007
11/17/06 at 2:01pm
Very good point. I THINK it should be the cube style because the A2-250 has the shoebox design based on the pic. http://edesignaudio.com/edv2/ednews/home/blog.php?id=38 The pic with the 3 subs show a larger one on the left. That should be a 300 design.

I wish someone from eD would chime in.
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post #70 of 1007
11/17/06 at 2:16pm
They've had some "typos" on the page. I actually e-mailed them to let them know that the A2-250 had 12" woofer size listed and A2-300 as the model name in their general spec area. They made the corrections today. Best to call them to clarify before buying.
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post #71 of 1007
11/17/06 at 2:35pm
im definitely waiting for the site to iron out some of its specs before i buy anything

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=103

this is the main thing im looking at

i would love to see this vs a pb12NSD
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post #72 of 1007
11/17/06 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

im definitely waiting for the site to iron out some of its specs before i buy anything

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=103

this is the main thing im looking at

i would love to see this vs a pb12NSD

Here's a thought. With the sale on the A2-300, why not get 2 ($540 shipped) for the price of one A5-300 ($550) shipped? Not bad...
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post #73 of 1007
11/17/06 at 2:49pm
i honestly dunno if i have the room for two of those

also do you really think the output will be better than the A5?? the specs page have a high excursion rate, i bet the A5 can push huge amounts of air when it wants to

i wish i was in the situation of "$300 and below", i mean wow, the A2-300 i think is the CLEAR winner in this situation and simply cannot be beat below $300.

i gotta say i think the pb10 is de-crowned, i mean $450... free shipping no tax (afaik), 12" driver, 300w amp, amazing enclosure
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post #74 of 1007
11/17/06 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

i honestly dunno if i have the room for two of those

also do you really think the output will be better than the A5?? the specs page have a high excursion rate, i bet the A5 can push huge amounts of air when it wants to

i wish i was in the situation of "$300 and below", i mean wow, the A2-300 i think is the CLEAR winner in this situation and simply cannot be beat below $300.

i gotta say i think the pb10 is de-crowned, i mean $450... free shipping no tax (afaik), 12" driver, 300w amp, amazing enclosure

The pb10 de-crowned? It's possible only if the performance of the A3-300 holds up in an a/b. At 100lb the A3-300 is a little monster for sure.
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post #75 of 1007
11/17/06 at 4:17pm
Well, I chatted with an eD tech online, and the picture on the A2-300 page is indeed incorrect. The photo posted in this thread before showing an unfinished sub was the a2-300.

So to make it clear, THIS is the A2-300:

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/icixnati...ges/38_819.jpg

"Gives you a idea on size.

After some more testing this weekend the A2-300 actually had just about everyone in the office Saturday night. People 2 blocks away probably thought there was a concert going on.

A2-300 is just unfair really. Surpassed my expectations that's for sure. Working on the web site supporting information / specifications now. We were shooting for Friday but got a snag on some things in the office.

That's business. Re-adapt and move forward."

ALSO!

I asked the guy whether he believes they are going to be overwhelmed with orders, and he said absolutely not. He said that the building of the sub itself is very quick, however the coating of the sub is what takes time. They take 3-4 days to put layers on.

He said that the turnaround time is usually 10 days.

I think I'm going to have to splurge on this instead of the BIC H100...
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post #76 of 1007
11/17/06 at 4:40pm
They list a Black v.3 and a Silver v.2. Are these versions of the drivers with the black driver being newer or ?
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post #77 of 1007
11/17/06 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

They list a Black v.3 and a Silver v.2. Are these versions of the drivers with the black driver being newer or ?

Just use the online chat to ask questions. They are very responsive, so you'll get an answer quickly.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/index.php (check the top right where it says Ed Live Support)
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post #78 of 1007
11/17/06 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by goobernoodles View Post

Well, I chatted with an eD tech online, and the picture on the A2-300 page is indeed incorrect. The photo posted in this thread before showing an unfinished sub was the a2-300.

So to make it clear, THIS is the A2-300:

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/icixnati...ges/38_819.jpg

"Gives you a idea on size.

After some more testing this weekend the A2-300 actually had just about everyone in the office Saturday night. People 2 blocks away probably thought there was a concert going on.

A2-300 is just unfair really. Surpassed my expectations that's for sure. Working on the web site supporting information / specifications now. We were shooting for Friday but got a snag on some things in the office.

That's business. Re-adapt and move forward."

ALSO!

I asked the guy whether he believes they are going to be overwhelmed with orders, and he said absolutely not. He said that the building of the sub itself is very quick, however the coating of the sub is what takes time. They take 3-4 days to put layers on.

He said that the turnaround time is usually 10 days.

I think I'm going to have to splurge on this instead of the BIC H100...

WOW

amazing.. $250 for that sub, friggin nuts.
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post #79 of 1007
11/18/06 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

What's "room tuning"? Does that mean a 20Hz Fb?

If you model their other drivers in WinISD with the enclosure volume they use, you will see they use room gain in order to produce their claimed 18-100hz -3db. Anechoic it's usually closer to 35hz. I have yet to model their low end drivers as I honestly do not care how they'll perform since I have one of their 18's and might order a second.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

They list a Black v.3 and a Silver v.2. Are these versions of the drivers with the black driver being newer or ?

The only difference between the 2nd version (.v2) and the 3rd version (.v3) is the color of the cone. Everything else is exactly the same, even T/S parameters.
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post #80 of 1007
11/18/06 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

If you model their other drivers in WinISD with the enclosure volume they use, you will see they use room gain in order to produce their claimed 18-100hz -3db. Anechoic it's usually closer to 35hz. I have yet to model their low end drivers as I honestly do not care how they'll perform since I have one of their 18's and might order a second.

Arent most measurements in-room response? When is an anechoic measurement really that useful?
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post #81 of 1007
11/18/06 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp614 View Post

Arent most measurements in-room response? When is an anechoic measurement really that useful?

When you have large rooms opening into other rooms with flexible walls and lots of cheap single pane windows...much like I have. You can count on just a few db's of room gain then instead of the 10-12db's a lot of people like to use.
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post #82 of 1007
11/18/06 at 11:19am
[quote= I think I'm going to have to splurge on this instead of the BIC H100... [/QUOTE]

Y' think?
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post #83 of 1007
11/18/06 at 1:19pm
looney, thanks for adding some real data into the conversation.

Yes anechoic is typically what most of the more recognized manufacturers list. This is the true output of the sub without environmental assistance. It is really the only way to have true comparisons outside of having two subs in the same room. For example, I could have a sub that goes down to 30 hz anechoic in a tiny well treated room and get gain down to around 20hz. Also, I can have a sub that goes down to 25hz anechoic in a very large open room that only gains 1-2hz extension. Does this mean that the first sub has better extension? Of course not. If we switched the rooms we would find drastic differences between the extension of the two subs. Anechoic is a control type measurement that is a standard that should be used. From my above example you can see why it is important.
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post #84 of 1007
11/19/06 at 1:09pm
I think a mfr using in-room FR is pretty misleading. I know that getting +/- 3 dB in my sub-unfriendly room would be very difficult for any sub. It seems to me they are making two BIG assumptions - that they get the benefit of room gain on extension, AND they also have a room that isn't going to cause nasty nulls & peaks anywhere else in the FR. How realistic is that for someone shopping for a budget sub? If I had the money to implement a bunch of really good room treatments - I probably wouldn't be looking for a $300 sub!

It's hard enough to compare sub specs when mfrs try to use consistent measurement techniques - using in-room makes it even harder to use their specs.
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post #85 of 1007
11/19/06 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

I think a mfr using in-room FR is pretty misleading. I know that getting +/- 3 dB in my sub-unfriendly room would be very difficult for any sub. It seems to me they are making two BIG assumptions - that they get the benefit of room gain on extension, AND they also have a room that isn't going to cause nasty nulls & peaks anywhere else in the FR. How realistic is that for someone shopping for a budget sub? If I had the money to implement a bunch of really good room treatments - I probably wouldn't be looking for a $300 sub!

It's hard enough to compare sub specs when mfrs try to use consistent measurement techniques - using in-room makes it even harder to use their specs.

Yeah, I'd be worried about this having purchased the A2-300, but I think I'll have really good response in my rather tight room.

We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
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post #86 of 1007
11/19/06 at 1:35pm
ED specifies their subwoofers @ - 3 dB @ 18 Hz on its own and @ -3 dB @ 10 Hz in room. They also list average max in room output from 10 to 100 Hz. I am not sure why anyone has a problem with this ... other companies post in room max SPL levels, and they do so without aspersions being cast.

It would be interesting to compare the A7-600 model against a PB12-Plus/2.

And, in an amazing coincidence, we have a Plus/2 here...
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post #87 of 1007
11/19/06 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

ED specifies their subwoofers @ - 3 dB @ 18 Hz on its own and @ -3 dB @ 10 Hz in room. They also list average max in room output from 10 to 100 Hz. I am not sure why anyone has a problem with this ... other companies post in room max SPL levels, and they do so without aspersions being cast.

It would be interesting to compare the A7-600 model against a PB12-Plus/2.

And, in an amazing coincidence, we have a Plus/2 here...

A lot of people are dying to know more about this company's subs. You would do everyone a huge favor with a comparision.
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post #88 of 1007
11/19/06 at 7:28pm
i thought i posted this but apparently not:

should i go with two A2-300's, or one A5-300???

will the two 10" in the a2-300 beat out one A5-300 with a 500w amp and high excursion
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post #89 of 1007
11/19/06 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

i thought i posted this but apparently not:

should i go with two A2-300's, or one A5-300???

will the two 10" in the a2-300 beat out one A5-300 with a 500w amp and high excursion

doesnt the A2-300 have the 12" driver?
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post #90 of 1007
11/19/06 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnp614 View Post

doesnt the A2-300 have the 12" driver?

Yeah. The A2-300 is a 12" driver with a 200 watt amp.
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