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Any News From CEDIA?  

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Can anyone provide info. on what is new at CEDIA? I was supposed to be there, but United Airlines canceled my flights (4 times), and now I can not get a flight on any other airline.

I am particularly interested in developments with respect to dvd (e.g., HDTV versions, recordable machines, etc.), scalers/interpolators, dlp/ila developments.

Also, has Lexicon made any announcements?

Thanks. Wish I could have been there with you.
post #2 of 33
Haven't seen any CEDIA news about Lexicon.

But you can see CEDIA show news on several web sites including Twice (http://www.twice.com/), Virtual CEDIA (http://www.virtualcedia.com/) and Secrets of HiFi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/).
post #3 of 33
Sony has a new DVD player due to be shipped/released in November. The DVP-S9000ES, DVD-Video/CD/SACD Super Audio Compact Disc, Progressive. Retail $1500. I haven't read all the specs yet.

Faroudja used a Sony G90 in their demo. Awesome image at 1080P.

Vidikron had a stacked Vision 1 set up. Just blew me away with the clarity and detail. The last video they played was a walk through the woods. Absolutely looked to be a 3 dimensional image.

Theater Automation Wow (TAW). had a side by side viewing of 2 of their projectors, one using the Quad Scan and the other a Faroudja DVP3000.
Minimal difference as far as I was concerned. It certainly rivaled the Faroudja thats for sure. I do believe Joe Kane was impressed when he stopped in while I was there at their booth. I couldn't believe it. I've only read his stuff, but here he was standing right next to me.



[This message has been edited by Tim Wilkins (edited 09-10-2000).]
post #4 of 33
I too was very impressed with the TAW booth. I thought they certainly had a lot of backbone showing a direct comparison to a Faroudja 3000 they way they did. It was very impressive and difficult to see many differences. Certainly not $15k worth of differences!

Also, I thought Faroudja had a Digital Projection unit there (that huge blue projector)? I didn't even notice the Sony G90.

Tom
post #5 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info. Anything on Chiro (aka Kinergetics), Vigatec or the new Dwin TranScanner II?

I'm really pissed at United for messing up my trip. I don't know what has happened to them over the past 6 months.

steve
post #6 of 33
Ohhh noooo....that rots! I can't believe I missed that. I guess I got caught up in looking at all of the digital projectors that I never thought to see Faroudja's demo. So they were using 3-DLP's?

Oh well. All the more reason to go to CES in January!!!! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Tom
post #7 of 33
Laurence,

Wasn't that Vidikron something else. Hmm, what's the going price of land now? I've got to ask top dollar because I'll need 2 and of course the scaler too. Man it's tempting.
post #8 of 33
Quote:
Originally posted by steve:
Thanks for the info. Anything on Chiro (aka Kinergetics...?

steve

Hi Steve. I'm pretty sure that Chiro went out of business a couple of weeks ago. Too bad, their products looked pretty good.

Jeff
post #9 of 33
I'm glad you guys made it back safe. We just flew back.

Steve the TS2 with their DLP projector showing Austin Poweres made a real sweet demo. Luxuriant blacks, no rainbow, halo, or artifacts. What a combo!! The projector was real quiet, too.

Tommyboy2, you missed the best part. Faroudja had a theater behind closed black curtains to the left of the 3dlp projector. Fabulous demo.

BUT!!!! Timmy, you are sooo right. I can't get that Vidikron demo out of my head. It was so far beyond anything I've seen.

Razor sharp, exquisite detail, 3D.

it absolutely blew my mind. It made the G90/Faroujda demo look like VHS!!!

Now if you could only trade those two 1271s for a pair of Marquee 9500LCs, then steal a Faroudja 5000 . . . .



[This message has been edited by Laurence (edited 09-10-2000).]
post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
Jeffery:

Kinergetics web site is still up. Are you sure they went out of business?

steve
post #11 of 33
Hw about that display at MSB! They will now put a scaler into your DSS or DVD. Looked pretty cool for only $ 895 installed.
post #12 of 33
I also have heard that Chiro/Kinergetics/Golden Theater/Golden Tube/Wadia have all recently gone on holidays !
Whats up with this lately ?
Bad products or bad management ?

DavidW
post #13 of 33
I know of a dealer that just went under because of there demise.
They did not give any refund on products that were ordered and payed for.
I guess the internet is not the only source for bad business transactions.

------------------
Thanks Very Much!

Alan Gouger
AV Science
www.avscience.com
post #14 of 33
Kinergetics/Chiro have definitely gone out of business. A shame IMHO as they did make some great equipment that was reasonably priced. I have been having on of my Chiro products (C802 DD/DTS processor) upgraded by one of their (now former) head technicians. According to him, it wasn't that they weren't selling product. He says that the C802 (their latest processor) was flying out the factory. So who knows what happened. Based on my experience, it was hard to resell this fine sounding products and the awareness on the East Coast was minimal.

I would bet that the company or at least its principle designer Tony DiChiro will resurface soon-maybe with the new C808 he was working on and about to launch just prior to the company going out of business.

------------------
Keith L. Michel
"There can be only one"
post #15 of 33
Yes,

What about that MSB exhibit? I, too, am very interested in what those who were there thought.
post #16 of 33
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gifBet 9of10 missed it.So who is Scott and what was he doing?If you dont get right answer-you are one of the 9.David didnt.

------------------
Ron
"Your priorities will be different-its the weighting that counts!"
post #17 of 33
David saw MSB,in case that was unclear.Who wants to thrown off the forum?
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Ron
"Your priorities will be different-its the weighting that counts!"
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
KLM:

What upgrades were you having done by Chiro? I have the C-800 and C5.1 units. Always thought of getting the revised AC3 upgrade done to the C5.1, but never got around to it, as it is used in my family room setup.

You seem to imply that an ex-employee is doing upgrades. How does one get in touch with the person. Also, since they are out of business, I get it is no longer possible to get a schematic, in the event repairs are ever needed.

I found Chiro to be very responsive. The C802 was developed mainly in response to my complaints (actually written suggestions for improvements) with respect to inputs and video signals appearing on both the composite and S-video lines. Also, I needed an extra S-Video input; Chiro could not modify the circuit to add it for me (due to a limitation of the chip used, but they revised the software controlling the video switching with respect to the audio switching, so that I could use an external S-Video switcher to select between the satellite and SVHS on the VCR input, while the audio from the SVHS was inputted to the audio jacks associated with the tv input (this was before the advent of the Monster Entech devices).

The quality and sound of the Chiro line was up there. They just were not well known on the east coast.

They will be missed.

Steve
post #19 of 33
Steve,
Tony DiChiro recommended one of his technicians to do service. His name is Fred Pham and he has been very responsive. Tony as well has been very accomadating and is hooking my unit up with a new transformer as their is some hum from the unit. I will e-mail you (and anyone else who contacts me directly) with his number so you can contact Fred directly. Apparently, there were some upgrades made to the C802 software after its initial release. Mine is an early unit and didn't get these. By the time I got around to asking about upgrades, Kinergetics is out of business. Fred said it will improve overall performance in audio and video picture quality. He is also replacing some circuit boards. Interesting because aside from a slight hum, the unit seems to work well so I can't wait to see the improvements which Fred says will be very noticeable. It may be worth asking whether or not your C5.1 can except this upgrade.

By the way, I understand Tony Dichiro was at CEDIA. Did anyone see and talk to him to find out about future plans. He may be down but don't count him out. I wonder if he is working on his new processor (the C808) that would have been out by now if Kinergetics didn't go south.

------------------
Keith L. Michel
"There can be only one"
post #20 of 33
John,

I'm shocked, I tell you -- shocked! Do you mean to tell us that despite CEDIA show-goers having several whole minutes to compare and contrast the DVP3000 to the Quadscan, that it's quite possible that they underestimated the quality of the DVP3000's image, and its unequaled ability to deliver all-important long term viewing satisfaction. To top it off, the test was somewhat rigged, you say. And not in the Faroudja's favor.

Well, I never.

Seriously: Naturally everyone wants a $20,000 video processor for $2000 (or car, or amplifier, or wardrobe, or watch, or diamond, or home improvement, or...). To the profound regret of all of our savings accounts, it just doesn't work that way.

I read the previous posts with much scepticism, but not having been able to attend myself, I kept my thoughts to myself. So, needless to say, I'm glad a bona fide, highly experienced expert has confirmed what I could only suspect.

Face it all of you Quadscan, Transcan, HTPC, DRC, MSB, and CI owners and aspirants: all of these worthy products are good, sound values for the money. But if you want the best images money can buy, no matter what your source, for now the DVP3000 (and of course the DVP5000) is the only currently commercially available way to go.

Just my one millionth of the cost of a DVP3000 cents.
post #21 of 33
I hope this is rigging stuff is not true. If it is, boy do I feel duped!

Tom
post #22 of 33
I don't think John accused anyone of rigging the comparison, just that it was lamentable that the two projectors were not set up for the same scan rate and were not using an uninhanced video signal, and this made the comparison less valuable. I'm really not sure that using the Digivision would favor the Quadscan, since enhanced pixel transitions might show up deinterlacing errors to a greater degree. It's too bad that they couldn't get the two projectors to focus equally well. I own a Quadscan, and a Faroudja line doubler, and I've spent a fair amount of time looking at the picture produced by the DVP3000 and DVP5000. The latter two are unquestionably better, especially at deinterlacing material sourced from video. But the Quadscan is still a great value for now. I suspect there will be other scalers soon, maybe based on the newest DVDO and Genesis chips, that will surpass it in value.
post #23 of 33
Gents (and Ladies),

I must insert my two cents into the TAW display commentary. I did not get to see it until Sunday afternoon, and Phil was long gone...but I did get a few of my questions answered by the fine folks at Focus Enhancements and Digitech.

This was not an apples to apples comparison. The FE was run at 720P, the Faroudja at 960P. Both were being fed the Digivision processed signal, which improves pixel transitions-and that may have improved the FE a little more. Certainly it wasn't a pure DVD signal...if I pressed the issue, I'm sure they would've taken the Digivision out of the loop; but I've already made the comparison over time in my studio...and did not need to rain on their CEDIA show parade.

I applaud Phil and FE for making this gutsy public comparison, but I fear it wasn't as fair as it could be. (To the expensive competitor, of course!)

I was told that the Faroudja was run higher because scan lines could be seen at 720P. That indicates a poorly focused projector playing the FE signal. Both projectors, if they were identical and identically setup, would display the same line structure at 720P.

I've seen both through Phil's unit...and I do agree that the FE is a bargain. I just wanted to air my views against the overwhelmingly positive views voiced above. The Faroudja is more involving, with quicker 3:2 recognition, and it does magic with 30fps video-sourced motion. Yes, it is quite a bit of money...for those with the means to get it, it performs better than anything else I've analyzed.

Sincerely,
John
post #24 of 33
Well, perhaps rigged is a strong word. But then again I've heard offline from someone that knows CRT (that rules me out!!) that the reason the Faroudja appeared to have a red push was that they had a red gel on the projector showing the Faroudja?

I guess I'm just really embarrassed as I started this mess in another thread. More so out of politeness after meeting Phil. Nonetheless, I violated one of my own pet peeves - posting unsubstantiated, unqualified and/or uninformed opinions. So, I'm sorry if my post misled anyone.

Regards,

Tom
post #25 of 33
I apologize.

When I wrote the word "rigged," I meant for it to be taken somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Upon reflection, it's just too loaded a word for me to have used at all. Sorry.

I think Mr. Gannon's characterization was better phrased. As he said, it was not an apples to apples comparison, therefore, it wasn't totally fair -- that's not the same thing as rigging the demo.
post #26 of 33
Deniz,

Thanks for the clarification. If that was your goal, it certainly worked...in harmony with everyone here that has seen the Quadscan. I know firsthand the limitations at these conventions, with regards to time...and other things, like this year's special day long group sauna. Everyone complained about no air-conditioning during setup, but they forget the hurricane a few years ago in New Orleans...when the roof leaked and you had to look out for buckets all over the floor!!

John
post #27 of 33
John and others,

Of course this was not an apples to apples comparison because in no way did we tout the FE unit to be superior to the Faroudja. Actually, most people had no problem differentiating the two processors and we had no issue in stating that the Faroudja is undoubtably superior. I know because the 3000 is my reference video processor.

This demo was not intended to be a Faroudja vs. FE shootout but simply to demonstrate the capabilities of the FE unit, and to show off the abilities of the TAW 800 projector when driven by the best video processor.... the Faroudja 3000. This is why the Faroudja side was driven at 960P because it is the best scan rate for this projector. John, your fellow reviewer Mr. Tom Norton also prefered the look of 960P in his review of the Vidikron Vision 3 which is essentially the same unit and based on the same platform as the TAW 800. I also exclusively run my F. 3000 at 960P on my TAW 800.

The color filters were used on the first day of the show by the request of some magazine reviewers. We actually removed the green filter before the show and kept the red intact. The second day of the show no color filters were used on either projector, and both projectors had their gray scale recalibrated as close as possible. We have found that color filtering is not necessary with the TAW 800 but could be usefull for other crt projectors.

We used two different versions of the FE Quadscan during the show. The first day v. 2.10 was used, and we decided to remove it the next day due to the added filters of this version mainly for digital projectors. For Sat and Sun we used v. 2.05 which does not employ these filters and produced a much sharper image. John is correct about not getting the absolute focusing correct on the projector driven by the FE unit as we simply ran out of time to do any more adjustments.

The Digivision unit was only in place during the show on Sunday. It was not used to enhance the image in favor of the Quadscan. Dave just wanted to observe what the Digivision would do when coupled with a crt projector. The Digivision booth was right next to ours so we were genuinely curious about its performance.

So our intentions at the show were to demonstrate the TAW 800 projector and its price/performance capabilities. If you walked away thinking otherwise then maybe we need to rethink our marketing.

If anyone has other setup questions about this demo I will entertain them all so post away.
post #28 of 33
I know firsthand the limitations at these conventions, with regards to time...and other things, like this year's special day long group sauna. Everyone complained about no air-conditioning during setup,
************************************************************ ****

Yea, no air conditioning was provided until the first open day of the show, and I came back from the show two pounds lighter. I was envious of the booths that had the portable ac systems such as McIntosh.
post #29 of 33
John
Any thoughts on the DLPs at the show ?

DavidW
post #30 of 33
David,

They're getting closer to CRT's, but not yet. I'm still a big fan of proper blacks, even at the expense of blinding whites.

I was impressed by the D-ILA also.

I think Dwin and Seleco upped the ante in the single chip DLP category...but until I can get jiggy with 'em in my studio I need to withhold comment.

John
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