or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › HiDef DVD News VII - News Only : AND WE MEAN IT: NEWS ONLY
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HiDef DVD News VII - News Only : AND WE MEAN IT: NEWS ONLY - Page 2

post #31 of 3949
Quote:


BD PQ - Still hit or miss, Talladega Nights got 2 out of 5 for PQ from highdefdigest...

It's garbage posts like this that have dragged these forums down into the toilet. Why didn't you mention that the movie got a 7 out of 10 from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity? Why didn't you mention any of these recent HD-DVD releases that received a 4 out of 10 from at least one review site?

Army of Darkness
Waist Deep
Spartacus
post #32 of 3949
he mentioned Talladega Nights because this is supposed to be the movie used to demo / showcase BD.

Remember way back when you buy HiFi VHS deck and they come with demo video? They were great to showcase what the movie player can do. Not the case with Talladega Nights. Even if it's 7/10, it's not a showcase movie. Sony should bundle eye and ear candy that will easily receive 9/10 to showcase BD playback.
post #33 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

he mentioned Talladega Nights because this is supposed to be the movie used to demo / showcase BD.

Remember way back when you buy HiFi VHS deck and they come with demo video? They were great to showcase what the movie player can do. Not the case with Talladega Nights. Even if it's 7/10, it's not a showcase movie. Sony should bundle eye and ear candy that will easily receive 9/10 to showcase BD playback.

Forget that BD also has other great releases, on MPEG2 even. How convenient.
post #34 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

regarding the lack of HDMI on XBox add-on. From my POV, it's a non issue. By the time ICT is switched on (approx 2010 or later), you're already buying new players anyway.

Maybe, but that is based on the idea that ICT won't be used until at least 2010. I certainly wouldn't mind if that is true but at the moment that is just a rumor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Other than exceptions here and there, I honestly doubt that a player bought in 2006 will still be in operation when it reached 2010.

True, especially if the player is an external drive for a game console.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

BTW, we know it wasn't the "superior" side that won that war. Everyone take a deep breath!

Not to put a damper on this comparison but the combined forces of the US, England, and a dozen plus other countries certainly were stronger than the Axis powers. It just took them a while to build up their armed forces for an all out war. Also I think you are taking the analogy of a format war a bit to literally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

While some titles on Mpeg2 have managed to come close to VC-1, this wasn't one of them.

Actually there are several MPEG-2 discs that look better than several VC-1 discs. Just pointing out that there is no need for exaggeration and personally I do think that Sony should switch to an advanced video codec.
post #35 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber View Post

It's garbage posts like this that have dragged these forums down into the toilet. Why didn't you mention that the movie got a 7 out of 10 from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity? Why didn't you mention any of these recent HD-DVD releases that received a 4 out of 10 from at least one review site?

Army of Darkness
Waist Deep
Spartacus

Well, this got ugly fast. Let me try and pull this back out of the toilet.

BD is my God I shall have no others (chorus). Is it working?

David already answered the question "Why Talladega Nights?" But let me hit it home again. This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?

Talladega Nights 2006 2 out of 5 from Highdef 3.5 out of 5 from Secrets

b2b already provided a clip from this one...but here's the full review
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/talladeganights.html

here's what Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...0Ricky%20Bobby

This is the third BD-50 release from Columbia, and it reminded me a lot of Click!. The image looks good for the most part, but I couldn't help but feel like something was missing in both dimension and detail.

The image frequently looks a bit flat and veiled. Colors are great and contrast is solid, but the three dimensionality of better high definition transfers is just not there. Since I didn't see this one in the theaters, it is hard to say what is intentional or not, but overall I thought a film like this would look a bit better.

The audio was also a bit of a letdown. Sony's uncompressed audio tracks have been stellar for the most part, and since this film deals with NASCAR, I was expecting some impressive sound design and dynamic range, at least in the racing scenes. While there is plenty of surround usage, dynamic range isn't really that great, and the sound design stays a bit toned down. I guess I should have expected that from a comedy though.



Let's go through your list of HD-DVD stinkers

Army of Darkness 1992 2.5 out of 5
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/armyofdarkness.html

Waist Deep 2006 4 out of 5 for PQ
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/waistdeep.html

Spartacus 1960 2.5 out of 5 for PQ
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/spartacus.html

We could go on like this forever, pitting one reviewer against another, one movie against another. I'll let the folks on this thread judge the titles you chose as examples of bad HD-DVD. I'm sure they can also figure out for themselves if VC-1 is a better codec than Mpeg2 which was standardized in 1994.

The fact remains, Sony continues to act like a company that has nothing to prove. I posted on this thread before the PS3 reviews came out that I hoped that Sony would do better with the PS3. I hoped that the PS3 would deliver great BD PQ and I hoped that Talladega Nights would be a great showcase for BD. The PS3 hardware designers did a good job, but Sony dropped the ball again with the bundled movie. They continue to behave like a company that does not show interest in competing for my business. My hope, therefore, is that HD-DVD continues to cause Sony pain so that they change their behavior and work harder to deliver better products to the paying customer.

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.
post #36 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Well you certainly shouldn't be surprised by that when you make exaggerations like saying that no MPEG-2 disc has yet to equal a VC-1 disc. Statements like that just weaken your more legitimate arguments. To show that I know that Sony has made mistakes and that I am fair about this I will make a short list of them:
  1. Using MPEG-2 for all their Blu-ray movies was not a good idea and many of their early movies suffered from over compression because of that. Overall there is little reason for them to stick with MPEG-2 and even when their movies aren't negatively affected by using it they will get bashed because they continue to use it.
  2. They should have released a subsidized stand alone Blu-ray player. Once Sony knew that Toshiba was going to do that they should have done that as well since it would help disprove the myth that Blu-ray players cost twice as much to make as HD DVD players. A myth that continues to be believed even today.
  3. They should not have overestimated the number of PS3 consoles they would be able to make this year. It gave their opponents an opportunity to attack them and made them look bad.
  4. They should have included an IR receiver on the PS3 and released a remote for it on day one. Honestly releasing a Bluetooth remote a month after the PS3 makes it look like Sony forgot one of the uses that they were hoping for from PS3 owners. That being the playback of Blu-ray movies.
  5. Sony should have released a knock out movie or two this winter since a surprise announcement of Spiderman would have gotten a lot of publicity. Instead it was Fox who got closest to doing that with X-Men 3.
post #37 of 3949
I'm sure someone will do their own thread on it, but I wanted to post this while it's still relatively fresh in my mind.

We just did a demo here in So Cal (thanks Thomas!) with both the Panny BD and Tosh HD-A1 though the Qualia 004 front projector on a 133 inch screen. Whole system just recently calibrated. IIRC, there's a Pioneer Elite in his awesome home theater.

Primary titles for comparison were MI:3, Aeon Flux, and Corpse Bride. We also did Black Hawk Down for BD and SD Gladiator on both to compare upconversion.

IMO, MI3 and Aeon Flux were indistinguishable and the Panny BD got the slight edge on Corpse Bride with slightly better color saturation and "pop." We went back and forth through the same scenes on each (notably the bridge scene, roof jump, and Vatican intro for MI3), though the HD-A1 had the annoying habit of having to start from the beginning due to it losing the HDMI handshake while the BD would pick up where it left off.

It was also a wash on upconversion for the Panny (primary comparison with the DVD of Gladiator), with it's superior speed and response giving it the convenience nod.

Myself, I can't wait for the PS3 to give my XBR1 a taste of Blu-ray. As soon as I can get a PS3 without waiting in line or paying ebay rapage, I'll get one (most likely early next year, I'm thinking). I've been tossing back and forth near daily on getting an XA1. I don't like the ergonomics of the the separate HD-DVD dongle but already have the 360... My unused analog inputs on my receiver are begging for the XA1, though. This demo today makes me all the more sure I could tolerate the quirks of the XA1... for the right price. The HD-DVD add-on also looks quite attractive, though I'm willing to pay the premium for 5.1 True HD....
post #38 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?

Horrible. Unbelievable. Of course, we might be a bit more picky than J6P, I don't know. Wasn't it IGN that gave the bundled movie a pretty good score, something like "opened my eyes for HD content"? (Can't find the link now..) That nonwithstanding, the choice of a) which movie and b) how the encoding was done is a mystery to me. Espescially since they KNOW what is going on over in the HD DVD camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

The fact remains, Sony continues to act like a company that has nothing to prove. I posted on this thread before the PS3 reviews came out that I hoped that Sony would do better with the PS3. I hoped that the PS3 would deliver great BD PQ and I hoped that Talladega Nights would be a great showcase for BD. The PS3 hardware designers did a good job, but Sony dropped the ball again with the bundled movie. They continue to behave like a company that does not show interest in competing for my business. My hope, therefore, is that HD-DVD continues to cause Sony pain so that they change their behavior and work harder to deliver better products to the paying customer.

Agreed. They seem to assume too much, to a point where it might come back and seriously bite them. Their window of opportunity for winning people over to their side is rapidly closing, and Sony seem to actively trying to close that window themselves! Hello? Luckily there are more studios than Sony and recent releases from them seem to indicate that we're finally on the right track.

I fully expect some Blu-ray exclusive studios to also join the HD DVD camp in the fairly short term, just by looking at the sales numbers. The only thing left for them is looking at what attach rates we'll see on the PS3. If low, HD DVD releases are coming. (Not Sony owned or Fox.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

I am and avid PS supporter, got the PS1, PS2, PSP and waiting to get the PS3, and I think Blu-ray is the better HD "solution". I'm not making excuses for Sony, in fact, I am continually amazed how they time after time are able to mess things up. But I can't make my decision on which side to support on the execution of the launch or the attitude of one of the BD studios. I have to look at the technical solution, its long term viabiliity, overall studio support and last, but not least, which HD format the PS3 supports, since I'll be getting that anyways...
post #39 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.
post #40 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.

Hmmm. Non-"Sensicle"....Non "Sensicle". Is it really "non-sensicle"? Let's do a cursory search...Go for the easy pickings...


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751008

Quote:


Thanks Sony for letting us know just how crappy BD-50 can be!
post #41 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Forget that BD also has other great releases, on MPEG2 even. How convenient.

How convenient that you just missed my entire first sentence and twist my post to your liking.

NEVER I mentioned that BD doesn't have great release. The POINT IS that Sony is being stupid by bundling PS3 with crap quality movie that is NOT ear and eye candy. Is it clear enough for you now?

Sigh. Twist and twist and twist and twist. Typical BD apologists.
post #42 of 3949
From Variety:

It's a whole new game for H'wood

Quote:


PS3 plays Blu-ray DVDs, and the success of the machine may well determine the fate of the format. Simply put, if the 400,00 units Sony is shipping to North America don't convert enough people to Blu-ray, it may prompt a lot of studios to shift their allegiances to Toshiba's rival HD-DVD.

If Variety reflects Hollywood, then Hollywood is looking at the PS3 very closely...
post #43 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Amen.

Prime example #1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.
post #44 of 3949
Quote:


Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?

B2B:I don't know, but don't think it does. I don't know of any good Canadian boards and don't expect to see news like that here.
post #45 of 3949
Quote:


he mentioned Talladega Nights because this is supposed to be the movie used to demo / showcase BD.

David.
1) how does it compare to the DVD?
2) there is the 50GB that can be bought.
post #46 of 3949
Quote:


David already answered the question "Why Talladega Nights?" But let me hit it home again. This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?

2CH: the difference is that it will go to people that think DVD is good enough. They will look at it, see it is MUCH better and re-evaluate if they should be looking for something better. The add-on is aimed at someone that wanted to spend 200$ and that wanted HD, he might have bought it because he could not afford more or because he says he wants HD but is not intelligent enough to realize that he can't get HD from most studios and if he wanted that he would need to go BD

For the add-on the movie is there to help convince people to buy the add-on instead of the Toshiba. So it needs to be a great movie. For the PS3 it is there to show the PS3 owner that BD movies are better then DVD, and that it does. It is there to convince the PS3 owner to spend money on BD movies, if they included the 50GB version no one will need to buy it.
post #47 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

From Variety:

It's a whole new game for H'wood

If Variety reflects Hollywood, then Hollywood is looking at the PS3 very closely...

The real situation is... if people don't respond to the BD movie playback in PS3, it's that HD on shiny discs isn't a real interesting thing compaired to DVD and that problem is squarely one of content, not format.

If all that Hollywood is going offer with HD is old movies at twice the price of DVD that require new players at five times the price of DVD, then what did they think was going to happen ??

b2b
post #48 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez View Post

The real situation is... if people don't respond to the BD movie playback in PS3, it's that HD on shiny discs isn't a real interesting thing compaired to DVD and that problem is squarely one of content, not format.

Well, thank all that is holy that you know what the real situation is!

Quote:


If all that Hollywood is going offer with HD is old movies at twice the price of DVD that require new players at five times the price of DVD, then what did they think was going to happen ??

Hollywood is running out of patience with BD, the PS3, and attach rates...How many PS3s were sold at launch?

HD-DVD is the only logical way to resell all that crap they want to resell. Low mastering costs, low replication costs, until the next best thing (downloading) comes along...
post #49 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

How many PS3s were sold at launch?

All of them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

HD-DVD is the only logical way to resell all that crap they want to resell. Low mastering costs, low replication costs, until the next best thing (downloading) comes along...

In your opinion, sure. In mine, not so. I don't think all studios are that eager to give all power to Toshiba and Microsoft, which, when you think about it, is what HD DVD is all about...
post #50 of 3949
Quote:


Originally Posted by 2Channel
What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Amen.

Prime example #2:


Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

2CH: the difference is that it will go to people that think DVD is good enough. They will look at it, see it is MUCH better and re-evaluate if they should be looking for something better. The add-on is aimed at someone that wanted to spend 200$ and that wanted HD, he might have bought it because he could not afford more or because he says he wants HD but is not intelligent enough to realize that he can't get HD from most studios and if he wanted that he would need to go BD

For the add-on the movie is there to help convince people to buy the add-on instead of the Toshiba. So it needs to be a great movie. For the PS3 it is there to show the PS3 owner that BD movies are better then DVD, and that it does. It is there to convince the PS3 owner to spend money on BD movies, if they included the 50GB version no one will need to buy it.

Anthony do you even read what you write before you hit the submit button?

How is a sorry transfer going to convince anyone but the most rabid PS3/Blu Ray fanboy defending their format of choice that it's any thing special. If this BD title is going to people that you say think DVD is good enough, it's low quality certainly isn't going to do much to change their minds. And it certainly won't do anything for the large number of folks hooking this up to their SD tv's.
post #51 of 3949
mod

please challenge the information: not the poster

Thanks
post #52 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

mod

please challenge the information: not the poster

Thanks

Are we allowed to challenge assumptions?
post #53 of 3949
Quote:


Hollywood is running out of patience with BD, the PS3, and attach rates...How many PS3s were sold at launch?

Mike: how many HD DVD players, add-ons and PCs?
post #54 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

All of them?

Yes, all of them. Less than the periodicals state...

Quote:


In your opinion, sure. In mine, not so. I don't think all studios are that eager to give all power to Toshiba and Microsoft, which, when you think about it, is what HD DVD is all about...

The traditional CE vendors do not work here - we are talking about software, not hardware...There is no reason for Samsung, Pioneer, Panny, et. al. to compete here, in terms of a pure playback box... PS3 for playback will trounce them. HD-DVD will trounce them.
post #55 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Are we allowed to challenge assumptions?

please do .. challenge the inferences too ... best thing to do is to challenge the desired reading of the text
post #56 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by onanie View Post

Arguably, for now, BD PQ does not need to be better, and it is also definitely no worse (simply an effect of sharing the same codecs as the competing format). If PQ had been the basis for some to choose HD DVD over Blu-ray before, then it should no longer be an issue unless one dwells in the past, ignores current revelations, and disregards potential in favour of immediate satisfaction.

i disagree, for that price, the PQ should be SIGNIFICANTLY better!!
post #57 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Are we allowed to challenge assumptions?

challenge the assumption as an opinion- we all have them....
still no need to challenge the poster -
post #58 of 3949
I agree. As long as BD is priced higher than HD-DVD, then it MUST look significantly better than HD-DVD. Furthermore, it should CONSITENTLY be significantly better than HD-DVD. Especially when the BD camp have been claiming that BD is better than HD-DVD.
post #59 of 3949
Quote:


How is a sorry transfer going to convince anyone but the most rabid PS3/Blu Ray fanboy defending their format of choice that it's any thing special.

did you see it? did you compare DVD , BD and HD DVD version of it (sorry forgot HD DVD version= DVD)

smithfarmer :when was the last time you saw J6P talking about "The image frequently looks a bit flat and veiled".
or
" the three dimensionality of better high definition transfers is just not there. "
the guy even admitted
the reviewer even admits he does not know if that is how it is intended to look
"Since I didn't see this one in the theaters, it is hard to say what is intentional or not"

what
J6P
will see and know is

"Colors are great and contrast is solid"

as well as it is MUCH better then DVD because the real artifacts won't be there

Quote:


If this BD title is going to people that you say think DVD is good enough, it's low quality certainly isn't going to do much to change their minds. And it certainly won't do anything for the large number of folks hooking this up to their SD tv's.

have you tried it and made a DVD/BD comparison?

That is the difference between rabid HD DVD fan and not. Jumping to asinine conclusions and not
post #60 of 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

Mike: how many HD DVD players, add-ons and PCs?

By January 1, 2007? I might go for Hd DVD, or a tie. Which is a win for HD DVD. Sony can't stand HD DVD being there. Royalties are halved.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Software Media Discussion
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › HiDef DVD News VII - News Only : AND WE MEAN IT: NEWS ONLY