AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › Interesting HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Amazon Rank
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Interesting HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Amazon Rank

post #1 of 149
11/20/06 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
I looked up just a few titles that are available for sale or pre-order via Amazon on both formats. The Amazon DVD sales ranks between formats--I found to be interesting:

Superman: HD-#590 BR-#12,080
Superman 2: HD-#653 BR-#8,072
Million Dollar Baby: HD-#470 BR-#17535
Christmas Vacation: HD-#1,317 BR-#12,719
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 149
11/20/06 at 11:27am
This isn't really surprising.
HD DVD supporters will tell you HD DVD is selling much better than Blu-ray and the Amazon rankings as evidence.
Whereas the Blu-ray supporters will tell you they don't buy from Amazon, so the figures are not accurate. Then again, many of the Blu-ray supporters still think Blu-ray is a better overall value.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 149
11/20/06 at 11:42am
This is not new at all.

If you want to save time looking at Amazon rankings, just check this site:

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 149
11/20/06 at 6:11pm
Amazon rankings are very very fast and arbitrary to be honest

A friend of mine had a book on amazon that cracked the top 50, and they only ever moved like 1200 copies for him
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 149
11/20/06 at 6:31pm
I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

Warners has exacerbated this by 1) shippnig their Blu-Ray titles later, and 2) not paying as much attention to the sound on Blu-Ray. Paramount has done a fairer job of supporting both titles, and the ranks for their titles are somewhat closer.

But the high-rank Blu-Ray titles have a lot of Fox titles if you notice. Even Terminator 2 (a poor example of Blu-Ray) and The Fifth Element (a wretched disk for which Sony should be ashamed) rank higher on Blu-Ray than some of the great looking Warners titles.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 149
11/20/06 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

That is very true. I speculated about that being true a couple months ago. It still seems true. The real title to analyze are the Mission Impossibles which came out the same day as all other versions and were nearly identical. That's where the differences will spell out some format differences more clearly.

I can't wait until sales numbers actually are released. That should cause some havoc.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 149
11/20/06 at 7:21pm
I think the majority of folks that own blu-ray also own an hd-dvd player (not including PS3).
On the other hand, only a minority of HD DVD owners own blu-ray.
Since the common titles tend to be released earlier on HD DVD (and bought), this may help explain the disparity.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 149
11/20/06 at 7:35pm
I believe the disparity is simply in more HD DVD players being in consumer homes. In the case of The Corpse Bride that title hit Blu-ray first and it still was quickly usurped in sales volume once the HD DVD version hit.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 149
11/20/06 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

I don't understand your reasoning here. Why would people do that?

The reasons I could think of to support this are:

1) The HD DVD releases have better video. (True in some cases, not true in others.)
2) The HD DVD releases have better audio. (Dolby Digital Plus)
3) They think Blu-ray is going to die, so they don't want to invest too much into discs.

If that truly were the case, then the outlook wouldn't be so good for Blu-ray obviously. However, I don't actually believe that.

Personally, I think the Amazon sales are simply a reflection of what the overall interest in HD DVD vs. Blu-ray is. HD DVD is more popular in general at the moment.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 149
11/20/06 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Thank God for Blu Ray owners, they might just save HD DVD!
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 149
11/21/06 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

Now, maybe.

Before, it used to be 1/2 BD exclusives and 1/2 HD DVD movies...which I never understood.

That's even more telling that they're now mostly exclusives.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 149
11/21/06 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

Warners has exacerbated this by 1) shippnig their Blu-Ray titles later, and 2) not paying as much attention to the sound on Blu-Ray. Paramount has done a fairer job of supporting both titles, and the ranks for their titles are somewhat closer.

But the high-rank Blu-Ray titles have a lot of Fox titles if you notice. Even Terminator 2 (a poor example of Blu-Ray) and The Fifth Element (a wretched disk for which Sony should be ashamed) rank higher on Blu-Ray than some of the great looking Warners titles.


I think you hit it right on the head. I own both, and don't have a single BD that is also available on HD DVD yet. On the other hand, I have half a dozen or so HD DVD titles that are now available on BD. Why? Because I already had the HD DVD by the time the BD was released. The only exception was Lake House. They released at the same time, and I had intended to get the BD as it was cheaper than the HD DVD combo disc, but the BD was out of stock and the HD DVD was sitting there.

Truthfully, I would buy the BD over the HD more often if they were out first. Even though the picture is often slightly better on the HD, the HD-A1 is still a tempermental, frustrating machine. I'd sacrifice a bit of playback quality for the ease of my BD player.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 149
11/21/06 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

Amazon rankings are very very fast and arbitrary to be honest

A friend of mine had a book on amazon that cracked the top 50, and they only ever moved like 1200 copies for him

Here are some daily running numbers that won't fluctuate by the nanosecond.

http://www.thedvdwars.com

It's not a fleeting illusion that HD DVD sales are far ahead.

Further, Since Sony has now stated that they have sold 400,000 PS3's, how come the BR sales rankings haven't budged?

Could it be that the predictions about game machines' low "attach rates" for movies were correct?
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 149
11/21/06 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Thank God for Blu Ray owners, they might just save HD DVD!

LOL!
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 149
11/21/06 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Could it be that the predictions about game machines' low "attach rates" for movies were correct?

Yeah it couldn't have anything to do with people buying their BD movies from the stores they just spent hours lining up outside.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 149
11/21/06 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

Yeah it couldn't have anything to do with people buying their BD movies from the stores they just spent hours lining up outside.

Same can be said of HD-DVD Add-on...

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 149
11/21/06 at 3:55pm
Quote:
I'd sacrifice a bit of playback quality for the ease of my BD player.

You might reconsider this position. If in fact you feel that the playback quality of BD releases is not quite as good as HD DVD (your words, not mine), then you might consider than within a couple of years you'll upgrade the players (since that is what normally happens), and most likely you're next HD DVD player will be more refined. At the point, you might be upset at yourself if you've built a large and expensive library of Blu-ray discs that you feel are not quite as good as the HD DVD discs. In the future, you don't want to feel like every time you play a movie in one format, that it would have looked better in the other format. Just something to chew on.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 149
11/21/06 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkhang View Post

Same can be said of HD-DVD Add-on...

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

No it couldn't. There were no line ups at all for the add-on's release.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 149
11/21/06 at 4:21pm
Clearly lines are not what sell movies. I am quite certain hdkhang was referring to HD DVD add ons that were bought at B&M's. Perhaps more so, as the product is being bought with the sole intention of watching high def movies as the PS3 is mainly a game console that some will also use as a movie player.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 149
11/21/06 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lampert View Post

You might reconsider this position. If in fact you feel that the playback quality of BD releases is not quite as good as HD DVD (your words, not mine), then you might consider than within a couple of years you'll upgrade the players (since that is what normally happens), and most likely you're next HD DVD player will be more refined. At the point, you might be upset at yourself if you've built a large and expensive library of Blu-ray discs that you feel are not quite as good as the HD DVD discs. In the future, you don't want to feel like every time you play a movie in one format, that it would have looked better in the other format. Just something to chew on.

Gee, I must have missed the PQ "Quality Guarantee" that comes with every HD-DVD disc, is that the same one that comes with DVD ???

b2b
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 149
11/21/06 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad_cincy View Post

Clearly lines are not what sell movies. I am quite certain hdkhang was referring to HD DVD add ons that were bought at B&M's. Perhaps more so, as the product is being bought with the sole intention of watching high def movies as the PS3 is mainly a game console that some will also use as a movie player.

Indeed. I find it a little odd that there are so many wild theories about why BD sales lag on Amazon.

The KISS principle tells us that BD sales lag because the interest in owning BDs is lower.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 149
11/22/06 at 7:06am
Quote:


Here are some daily running numbers that won't fluctuate by the nanosecond.

http://www.thedvdwars.com

Except they get their numbers from Amazon rankings, and do not have access to the actual units moved, just the ranking

Quote:


The KISS principle tells us that BD sales lag because the interest in owning BDs is lower.

No, that's your personal bias

Applying the scientific method. Indeed, that is ONE POSSIBLE CAUSE, however there are so many other demonstrated factors, from buying habits (store vs B&M vs other online sites), habits formed by longer HD-DVD or BR ownership (note how the exclusives sell the best) etc, that judging by one website alone is completely and utterly intellectually dishonest. The only mostly reliable figures would be published per title sales numbers by a reputable industry organization, which DVDwars.com certainly is not.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 149
11/22/06 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

No, that's your personal bias

Applying the scientific method. Indeed, that is ONE POSSIBLE CAUSE, however there are so many other demonstrated factors, from buying habits (store vs B&M vs other online sites), habits formed by longer HD-DVD or BR ownership (note how the exclusives sell the best) etc, that judging by one website alone is completely and utterly intellectually dishonest. The only mostly reliable figures would be published per title sales numbers by a reputable industry organization, which DVDwars.com certainly is not.

Considering there is an absence of contradictory information, the Amazon rankings seem reasonably representative. Just about every report we heard (from individuals at various stores) seems to agree that HD DVD sales far outstrip BD sales.

Making up excuses for why BD sales lag certainly does not make any us believe that they don't, especially there is not a single source out there that supports the contention that BD isn't lagging.

That may change with the PS3, but it certainly didn't change overnight like some people in the past had claimed it would.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 149
11/22/06 at 7:57am
Quote:


Considering there is an absence of contradictory information, the Amazon rankings seem reasonably representative. Just about every report we heard (from individuals at various stores) seems to agree that HD DVD sales far outstrip BD sales.

And those reports tend to be from people with HD-DVD preference. Again, the closest to unbiased figures are published ones through the studios. The Amazon rankings are proven conclusively to be...horribly innaccurate when it comes to actual units moved

The only thing you have a solid hypothesis on is that more people who shop at Amazon prefer HD-DVD
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 149
11/22/06 at 8:55am
Quote:


Gee, I must have missed the PQ "Quality Guarantee" that comes with every HD-DVD disc, is that the same one that comes with DVD ???

Reading comprehension. My post was a repsonse to someone who said "Even though the picture is often slightly better on the HD". I said in my post "your words, not mine" just to make sure I wouldn't get the kind of response you posted. So what was the point of me doing that, since you were determined to write your sarcastic remark irrespective of the content of the posts preceding it?
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 149
11/22/06 at 11:14am
Amazon has a huge share of the market, and their numbers are very representative of the overall trend.

Short of accusing Amazon of bias (which some have actually tried to do, remarkably) there is little else in subjective numbers available to the public.

Perhaps "Uncle Joe's Bluray Shoppe" might be accepted by some here?

These numbers are real, and very representative.
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 149
11/22/06 at 11:41am
It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 149
11/22/06 at 11:44am
Quote:


Short of accusing Amazon of bias (which some have actually tried to do, remarkably) there is little else in subjective numbers available to the public.

Perhaps "Uncle Joe's Bluray Shoppe" might be accepted by some here?

These numbers are real, and very representative.

No they're not. See above. I've already given examples of how few copies one can sell and end up way up in the rankings, and that all you've proven is that Amazon customers seem to prefer HD-DVD at this time.
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 149
11/22/06 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.L. View Post

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/

No surprise there.

It would be hard to find even HD DVD supporters at AVS that claimed that HD DVD would do well in Japan.

But wait... Using WickyWoo's argument, Amazon numbers are useless. I thereby declare that HD DVD supporters in Japan shun Amazon, and in reality there are a bazillion HD DVDs bought at other stores and Amazon is completely non-representative.
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 149
11/22/06 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.L. View Post

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/

I have a question

On page two Their is Resident Evil 2 The Apocalypse, cept they have it in English as Biohazard . Now I can understand if the Japanese caracters for it means Bio-hazard, but why spell it out in english as Bio-hazard instead of resident Evil.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Software Media Discussion

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › Interesting HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray Amazon Rank