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DVD Wars/Amazon  

post #1 of 175
Thread Starter 
I own the Phillips blu-ray player, but I also owned the HD-D1 and returned it only for player issues. I plan on purchasing the A2 as long as player issues are solved. I do favor Blu-Ray because I think its more tech advanced. For the life of me, I can't understand why every HD-DVD extremist says look at Amazon.com ratings and HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray 10:1. Do you honestly believe that? If you have not already noticed Microsoft and Amazon are in business together and have a vested interest.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050101447.html

A couple of months ago a SVP of 19 years left Microsoft to join Amazon.com, so its obvious they have a working relationship
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...crosoft06.html

Here is the other famous check out the dvd wars... fought own amazon.
http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

So I guess my question is with the obvious relationship and vested interest between Microsoft and Amazon how in the world can you use Amazon as your reference for HD-DVD sales? I mean seriously , you might fool some noobs around here but do you think thats going to fly with the Studios? If it has not already been brought to their attention I am sure it will be pointed out were the numbers are coming from. I am posting this in the Blu-Ray section because I don't want to be accused of trolling. I would like some civil feedback from both sides.
post #2 of 175
what are you saying. Conspiracy theory? The numbers arent true?
post #3 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver
what are you saying. Conspiracy theory? The numbers arent true?

I think he is hoping. ;)

Craig
post #4 of 175
Well right now a lot of people on both sides of the camp are swinging at hot air. Well guess what, even though Sony PS3 is in small numbers right now you are going to see a very large Trojan horse open up and 400,000 hungry Blu-Ray players beginng for Blu-Ray movies, and that is where you make your money. HD-DVD has a head start, but the race is at hand and more Blu-Ray players will be on retailers doorstep come 2007. This whole who is winning this battle right now is Theory!
post #5 of 175
I've bought plenty of disc, but I dont count as I never bought a HD DVD or Blu-ray disc at Amazon!:)
post #6 of 175
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver
what are you saying. Conspiracy theory? The numbers arent true?
I am presenting facts backed up with links. So if you want to call that a conspiracy theory then be my guest. The DVD wars presented by Amazon is not accurate representation of the numbers of blu-ray vs hd-dvd. They list HD-DVD 101 and Blu-Ray 78 which is not an accurate list. Amazon also never list all the Blu-Ray Movies, when ordering Devils Rejects on Blu-Ray from them they did not even list it has a Blu-Ray the only way I could tell was by the price. So do I trust Amazon and Microsoft to be unbiased? No
post #7 of 175
I don't know if there's a conspiracy but only a fool would take that dvdwars site seriously. They're all from the fox news school of journalism
post #8 of 175
easy like the site sais


Quote:
people care most about in making the HD vs. Blu-ray decision, is not the tech specs why would anyone care about what the thig they buy can do and bells and whistles I don’t want features, way over rated that no one will ever use. It's about making sure your $500 investment HD DVD in a new player and $100s in new DVDs doesn't become a set of very expensive paperweights.doesn’t lose


how and why?

Quote:
So which do I buy? HD-DVD or Blu-Ray
Quote:
If everyone buys into the current winner is gullible and buys our BS, thewinner's HD DVDlead will grow stronger, and BDthe loser will fade away quicker, and the corporations that support the loser the companies we don’t work for will have to play nice and give in pay us royalties for our tech
post #9 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaj
I don't know if there's a conspiracy but only a fool would take that dvdwars site seriously. They're all from the fox news school of journalism
It's just a site calling Amazon web services. There is not any bias whatsoever. It is just reporting Amazon's data in a friendly format.
post #10 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17
I am presenting facts backed up with links. So if you want to call that a conspiracy theory then be my guest. The DVD wars presented by Amazon is not accurate representation of the numbers of blu-ray vs hd-dvd. They list HD-DVD 101 and Blu-Ray 78 which is not an accurate list. Amazon also never list all the Blu-Ray Movies, when ordering Devils Rejects on Blu-Ray from them they did not even list it has a Blu-Ray the only way I could tell was by the price. So do I trust Amazon and Microsoft to be unbiased? No
I am not sure you argument has any relevance to the topic at hand.

It's likely the same percentage of HD-DVD and BD owners buy their titles from Amazon.

Of course HD-DVD is winning in sales. They have been out longer and have more players. Their players are the least expensive of them all too. HD-DVD has more titles.

The web site in discussion is just reporting raw Amazon sales data and nothing more.

The FACTS are that HD-DVD is outselling BD. Sheesh, get over it. BD may catch up if Sony can ship more than 27 players to the USA in the next 5 years.
post #11 of 175
I think it also comes down to HD-DVD owners being the cheapest bastards on earth it seems. They wont buy unless its a bargain. So of course they all shop at amazon. The average Blu-Ray buyer is more into actual MOVIES then discounts, hence buying from more B&M stores vs going online for the cheapest possible price. So amazon sales are a poor way to reflect any info. Even if they were to favor at BD, it would mean nothing.
post #12 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed
I think it also comes down to HD-DVD owners being the cheapest bastards on earth it seems. They wont buy unless its a bargain. So of course they all shop at amazon. The average Blu-Ray buyer is more into actual MOVIES then discounts, hence buying from more B&M stores vs going online for the cheapest possible price. So amazon sales are a poor way to reflect any info. Even if they were to favor at BD, it would mean nothing.
Are you serious?

Those thoughts kinda seem to be projecting a little. Are you saying that because some one bought a $499 Toshiba instead of a $999 Samsung they are a cheap bastard?

I can find no rational explanation that Amazon sales would be biased in favor of HD DVD or Blu-ray shoppers.

Until I hear one, I think that the sales ranking accurately show the gross trends, which incidently have been significantly up for Blu-ray in the past month, but still behind HD DVD which I think is roughly accurate to the current situation.

Until we have better information its kinda silly to shoot the messenger if he is bringing information you don't want to hear.
post #13 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed
I think it also comes down to HD-DVD owners being the cheapest bastards on earth it seems. They wont buy unless its a bargain. So of course they all shop at amazon. The average Blu-Ray buyer is more into actual MOVIES then discounts, hence buying from more B&M stores vs going online for the cheapest possible price. So amazon sales are a poor way to reflect any info. Even if they were to favor at BD, it would mean nothing.
That is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever read. Are you calling me a bastard because I am poor and am not as wealthy as you? Thank very much, that was very kind. But let me add that if someone can have the same product but cheaper, I call that smart. Why wouldn't I buy at Amazon if I can save some $$$? Even if I was rich, I would use discounts if it doesn't require too much trouble. The extra money could always go to more meaningful endeavors.
post #14 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed
I think it also comes down to HD-DVD owners being the cheapest bastards on earth it seems. They wont buy unless its a bargain.

ok then, from now on I'm going to try to find the worst most expensive deals I can find.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
post #15 of 175
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayselle
I am not sure you argument has any relevance to the topic at hand.

It's likely the same percentage of HD-DVD and BD owners buy their titles from Amazon.

Of course HD-DVD is winning in sales. They have been out longer and have more players. Their players are the least expensive of them all too. HD-DVD has more titles.

The web site in discussion is just reporting raw Amazon sales data and nothing more.

The FACTS are that HD-DVD is outselling BD. Sheesh, get over it. BD may catch up if Sony can ship more than 27 players to the USA in the next 5 years.
Fact #1. Amazon.com and Microsoft recently entered into a joint business venture. The only sales data being reported on Amazon.com is the same FUD being reported around here by Microsoft Shills

Fact. #2 Your trying to convince everyone that HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray because of numbers posted on Amazon.com website. Even if Amazon's numbers were accurate you are not factoring in that people buy Blu-Ray and HD-DVD from other stores.

Fact #3. With the PS3's release Sony has anywhere from $250,000 to $ 300,000 Blu-Ray players on the market today. Even with out including the stand alone Blu-Ray players. That number crushes Toshibas paltry 70,000 players not to mention we won't be seeing the A2's till Jan. 2007
post #16 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed
I think it also comes down to HD-DVD owners being the cheapest bastards on earth it seems. They wont buy unless its a bargain. So of course they all shop at amazon. The average Blu-Ray buyer is more into actual MOVIES then discounts, hence buying from more B&M stores vs going online for the cheapest possible price. So amazon sales are a poor way to reflect any info. Even if they were to favor at BD, it would mean nothing.
Interesting point.
post #17 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17
Fact #1. Amazon.com and Microsoft recently entered into a joint business venture. The only sales data being reported on Amazon.com is the same FUD being reported around here by Microsoft Shills

Fact. #2 Your trying to convince everyone that HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray because of numbers posted on Amazon.com website. Even if Amazon's numbers were accurate you are not factoring in that people buy Blu-Ray and HD-DVD from other stores.

Fact #3. With the PS3's release Sony has anywhere from $250,000 to $ 300,000 Blu-Ray players on the market today. Even with out including the stand alone Blu-Ray players. That number crushes Toshibas paltry 70,000 players not to mention we won't be seeing the A2's till Jan. 2007
Bleh bleh bleh .. these are not facts .. the are distortions of the truth.

#1/2) Uh so what ? Amazon and Sony have aliances in several arenas as well Oh no !! Amazon does NOT distort their sales figures in any way they are far to smart for that. Yes people buy movies from other sources, duh! However it is completely resonable to compare HD-DVD and BR sales on Amazon and use that as a basis for overall sales comparison.

#3) Uh hello ? How about the hd-dvd addon for the xbox which has 5 million units sold ? And the hd-dvd is the #37 most sold item at amazon ? That means thousands of unit sales every single day. And every single one of those sales is for the sole purpose of watching hd-dvd movies, whereas only a fraction of PS3 sales is for that purpose.
post #18 of 175
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post #19 of 175
What's your source for 70K HD DVD players? Also, isn't the HD DVD add for the Xbox also an HD DVD player? Only available sales data from Videoscan and Amazon shows 3:1 sales advantage for HD DVD.....Amazon partners with lots of folk, does not mean they make up sales numbers. Doesn't work that way! I'm sorry, but lots of BD fans are looking desperate and comical right now. It may change in future :)
post #20 of 175
The numbers mean nothing....HD DVD has no new releases or new players.....Forget software sales, no one can buy a new player today or for the holidays (short of a discontinued A1/XA1) and there is only a selction of old has-been titles... no new releases worth anything in the foreseeable future.
post #21 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
there is only a selction of old has-been titles... no new releases worth anything in the foreseeable future.
I have to agree with you on this. I owned an HD-A1 since June and just sold it to a friend to help pay for my PS3. I've thought about getting the HD DVD add-on for my Xbox360, but I'm looking at the release list for HD DVD and not seeing any decent announcements for the next few months.

I think the fact that Universal (and Weinstein) are the only real exclusive studios for HD DVD is starting to sink in. When I see Waterworld, Hulk, Clerks 2, and Brokeback Mountain coming out, I have to ask "is it worth an extra $200 to $500 to watch these movies? If you own a Blu-ray player you have Sony, Disney, and Fox titles to occupy your time while Paramount and Warner get caught up on their Blu-ray releases. I'm having alot harder time justifying getting back into HD DVD now than I did getting into it for the first time back in June.
post #22 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by nic17
Fact #1. Amazon.com and Microsoft recently entered into a joint business venture. The only sales data being reported on Amazon.com is the same FUD being reported around here by Microsoft Shills

Fact. #2 Your trying to convince everyone that HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray because of numbers posted on Amazon.com website. Even if Amazon's numbers were accurate you are not factoring in that people buy Blu-Ray and HD-DVD from other stores.

Fact #3. With the PS3's release Sony has anywhere from $250,000 to $ 300,000 Blu-Ray players on the market today. Even with out including the stand alone Blu-Ray players. That number crushes Toshibas paltry 70,000 players not to mention we won't be seeing the A2's till Jan. 2007
Wow nic, why are you so worried about this site and its stats?

Amazon does not sell strictly to compete against bluray. Amazon produces sales rankings on all items that it sells. thedvdwars site only points and shows what those rankings are as it matters to the format wars.

HD DVD owners have pointed to it in the pass as some to make a comparison by but even HD DVD owners have expected to see those stats change now with the release of the PS3

And no-one is saying that sales alone at amazon is the final totals of all things sold. But Amazon is one of the largest on-line retailers and so far have reflected closely comparisons made by professinal companies.
post #23 of 175
The HD-DVD addon is the #37 top seller at amazon, theres thousands of new hd-dvd players being sold every day for the sole purpose of playing movies. Whereas only a fraction of PS3 sales is for this purpose.

The bottom line is HD-DVD movies continue to dramatically outsell BR movies.
post #24 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
The numbers mean nothing....HD DVD has no new releases or new players.....Forget software sales, no one can buy a new player today or for the holidays (short of a discontinued A1/XA1) and there is only a selction of old has-been titles... no new releases worth anything in the foreseeable future.

I thought that the rational majority here realized that arguing what constituted a "good movie" was a worthless effort. You are also omitting (by mistake, I'm sure :rolleyes: , the X-Box 360 add-on in you statemen about there beingno "new player". Also forgetting, (again by mistake, I'm sure :rolleyes:) that the HD-A2 is scheduled to come out on the 11th. That puts it in retailers hands before Christmas (Yes, I agree that the delay really hurts the overall concept of having players readily available for Christmas, but we can't completely ignore their presence) So, IMO, for the Holidays, we have :

A bunch of PS-3s, which may or may no be used for Home theater
Samsungs
Limited Panasonics
SONYs (provided they stick to this launch date)

and

Limited Gen players
X-Box 360 add ons (to a limited number of Xbox owners interested in Home Theater)
HD-A2 (Provided they stick to their launch date)

I don't see a huge advantage for either side, hardware wise
post #25 of 175
For those bashing HD DVD release title, please post the announced BD titles you prefer, so we know your tastes. It's one thing to say HD DVD has a poor release schedule, and another to never, not once say what you actually prefer. Strongly implies you are in the FUD business....LOL.
post #26 of 175
THe problem with HD DVD is you cannot buy a new player for the foreseeable future. And since Toshiba is the only game in town for a standalone player, that is a problem. Spin Amazon and that useless information all you want but if you are trying to push a new format, it might be nice for interested folks to NOT have to go out buy an X-BOX game player and another HD DVD ADD ON just to play a HD DVD.....:rolleyes:

I'm peeved as I am awaiting a HD-A2 and this whole snafu hurts buyers and Toshiba's cause alike.
post #27 of 175
Again, how is Dec. 11th (for shipping...) not the foreseeable future? Do you truly feel that the date is fictitious? What is that based on? As far as I can see, there was a delay, with a plausable and predicatable action plan to correct, and get product back out, with a target date...
post #28 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
THe problem with HD DVD is you cannot buy a new player for the foreseeable future. And since Toshiba is the only game in town for a standalone player, that is a problem. Spin Amazon and that useless information all you want but if you are trying to push a new format, it might be nice for interested folks to NOT have to go out buy an X-BOX game player and another HD DVD ADD ON just to play a HD DVD.....:rolleyes:

I'm peeved as I am awaiting a HD-A2 and this whole snafu hurts buyers and Toshiba's cause alike.
Spin Amazon?

I see the HD-A1 and the HD-XA1 both in stock and available for purchase from Amazon right now. So no I dont see any one lacking if they really want to purchase an HD player right now.

For the BR side to so heavily rely on the sale of a game console to sneak there way into peoples homes I'm surprised you would discount the HD DVD add-on so quickly. Shoot for $200 I already stated picking them up for xmas presents for family.

Delays have happened on all players for both sides so I'm surprised your making it seem to be something new with the A2. Personally Im still waiting to see how reviews on the Pioneer do once its released
post #29 of 175
I believe they are officially discontinued..who wants a buggy first gen, dicontinued player...?
post #30 of 175
I won’t be buying either a BD of HD DVD player for some time because the number of titles currently available and announced in either format is inadequate. Virtually none of the new DVD releases seem to be being released in either HD format. I won’t be buying an HD player until and unless ALL new releases are released in one or the other HD format. It looks like that isn’t going to be happening for awhile.

I have no question whatever about the accuracy of the Amazon statistics that show HD DVD hugely outselling BD. How could it be otherwise when HD DVD releases have PQ that is significantly better than that of most BD releases and the price of HD DVD players is less than half that of BD players?
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