Only PS3 could save Blu-Ray

Ugh!! Again....

Nothing good can come of this thread, so I think Mods should just lock it.

I agree with the PS3 being a strong reason to get BluRay, but you may be missing the issue. All current BluRays output 1080p. HDVD is coming out with 1080p machines. Announced price 1K. The Sony unit that was delayed because of the pressure of the BluRay is a tank at 1k. The first Sony SD DVD player became a reference model. We couldn't keep it in stock at 1K and the Pany 499 and 699 units set on the shelf. Why? I think the performance and build quality spoke for itself.

I will wait for prices to match HD price. I want both formats but will not fork out the $$ for BR. I paid 399.00 for my Toshiba and would pay the same for a BR. However, as a father of two small children, I refuse to buy any video games for the house. I think the games are fun but not for children. I have them read or do constructive playing. Having said that, I think there are a lot of parents that think the same. Therfore, I do not think PS3 will make it to as many households as expected. I think they will hit big numbers but not as big as if it were a stand alone 399.00 player.

BFD. 1080p is overhyped. Most people won't be able to see the difference at normal viewing distances anyway. Not only that, most people aren't going to ditch their current HDTVs just to get 1080p. 1080p won't be a selling point for a few more years yet. By then, it won't matter because it'll be commonplace.

True. But looking at the bright side, don't you appreciate all the support and care of the HD-DVD people in this Blu-Ray forum? Look how they try to bring up as many issues as they can come up with, try to analyze Amazon sophisticated sales statistics. make forecasts, etc, etc, etc ... Actually, judging by their contribution to this forum, I say, they are true Blu-Ray supporters in disguise, don't you find that too?

I expect you'll be enjoying a player by the spring. Look, there never has been, and never will be a reason why HD DVD players cost substantially less to make than BD players. Now that Toshiba appears to be ending their subsidy of the G1 players (probably to try and attrct more CE manufacturers), you will largely see price parity from here on out, starting in the next 1-6 months as lower-end BD machines appear.

You never have anything constuctive to say do you ? You lack the ability to have a rational conversation or and ability to debate so you just attack everyone.

Now go ahead and call the OP a troll and start fighting with everyone so you force the mods to close the thread.

Or you could just get lost and not post in threads that don't interest you.

I don't recall you adding anything rational to any discusiions regarding BD.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.....

When the consumer looks at nine different companies' Blu-ray players and one company's HD DVD player, he's going to realise that one format is actually better than the other.
This isn't cereal here, it's technology.

I'm deaf. You may have selective hearing. Please read the last sentance of my note. Thanks

Those who think that the contest between Blu-ray and HD-DVD will be substantially decided based on the current set of players, the current player prices, or the current set of available disks all need to get back on their meds.

There is one, and only one, strategically pertinent difference between the two competing high-def DVD formats: disk capacity. All other differences are tactical and ephemeral--which is a fancy way to say all such differences are subject to substantial change over the next few years.

Looking at this month's sales figures are about as likely to reveal the ultimate winner as looking at tea leaves or cow entrails. Assuming there will even be any "winner."

I must say that I am interested in learning more about the protective layer added to Blu-Ray disks. Is it possible to add this to HD disks as well ? Or do they feel that it is only needed on Blu-Ray disks due to the closer layer of info ?

I would say that this is not COMPLETELY true. Hd-dvd has a distinct advantage over blu-ray in that it is a much closer cousin to dvd... For this reason, a special burner and special disk is not required to burn and play back HD. Blu ray has yet to work this out and it is still very much a guessing game as to weather or not it can even be worked out.

But more to the point of this thread.... people seem to think this war is beween HD-DVD and blu-ray... IT IS NOT... it hasn't even reached that point yet. Right now the war is between HD and SD.... This war will be won at some point, at which point people will then decide on blu ray or hd-dvd. Either way... it will be a LOOOONG time before a blu ray/hddvd war is won by anybody.

Sorry, but your information is wrong. You cannot use an SD-DVD burner to burn HD-DVD onto an HD-DVD disk (although you can burn SD onto a HD-DVD disk using an SD DVD burner.) [Reference: Toshiba Develops Slim HD DVD Burner for Notebooks (Hint 1: Toshiba would not need to develop an HD-DVD burner if SD DVD burners could do the job; Hint 2: Both Blu-ray and also HD-DVD must use blu lasers--for both reading and writing)]

Of course, there is nothing that prevents SD DVD burners from writing high-def content onto SD DVDs--but that has nothing to do with either Blu-ray or HD-DVD. However, you won't be able to get more than 4.5 GB per layer onto SD DVD disks. Greater capacity requires both non-SD disks and a blue laser.


Agreed. All this sturm und drang over Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD endangers the far more important goal of throwing SD into the dustbin of history ASAP.

Sorry YOUR information is wrong...

I have burned more than a dozen REAL HD-DVD disks from a standard burner (4.7g disks). This can be done with Pinnacle studio's new hd plugin. It is not only possible but it has been done, not just by me but by MANY others.

Not true at all.

Sorry I should correct that. once the dvd has been burned, it can not be read back by a standard burner because it is a real hddvd

At full bitrate (25000k) you can get 40 minutes on a DL disk. But you can drop the bitrate down as low as 19000 with no noticable affect and get an hour on a disk.... that's good enough for home movies!

Everything I said is correct--your claims notwithstanding. In fact, there is no conflict with what you claim and what I claim.

By your own admission, you are burning 4.7g disks. That means you are using the burner's red laser to burn HD content onto the SD layer of the HD-DVD disk, and are not burning anything onto the HD-DVD layer of the disk. You don't even need an HD-DVD writeable disk to do this--you could just use an SD writeable DVD instead. If you recheck what I said above, you will see I already mentioned this.

[Reference: HDV to Pinnacle Studio to HDDVD]

There's no reason the same could not be done using an SD DVD burner and a Blu-ray player, since most Blu-ray players will read SD DVDs also--and an MPEG2 transport stream doesn't care what kind of disk it's on (which is why the Toshiba player is able to decode it, either from the SD layer of an HD-DVD disk, or from an SD DVD disk.)

Some old same old from the Blu Boys....Blah Blah CE support....blah blah 1080p....blah blah PS3....blah blah high bitrate.....blah blah blah blah lah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah lah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Fact of the matter is, HD DVD is outselling BD...FACT. No matter what you guys hide behind, be it specs, game systems, or CE support.....you just cannot out talk yourselves from that fact.

And what will the HD-DVD 'fanboys' hide behind if that changes?

Why not save three to four hundred dollars, get the ps3 and just not buy any games? unless ps3 is a bad blu-ray player, i've read that it wont display movies in 720p.

And SD DVDs outsell HD-DVD by a much larger factor. The point: It's very, very, very early in the game, and the fact that one side has 10 points and the other one is probably not a good predictor of the final score, when at least one side will have scored over a thousand points minimum.

The absolute and relative sales figures will change many times before the winner (if any) is decided. And that fact is far more relevant than the one you are using as a palliative.

I must admit... towards the end of your statement you wallowed and changed a bit.. but the above was your opening line.... which is untrue

Never mind... Isee what has happened here... you misread my original statment... I never said anything about using a standard burner to burn HD-DVD DISKS

Furthermore... Every time this comes up... someone is ALWAYS claiming that the same thing can be done on Blu-ray.... Haven't seen it happen yet... heard a lot of people CLAIMING it though.

You claim I have misread your original post, which said "I would say that this is not COMPLETELY true. Hd-dvd has a distinct advantage over blu-ray in that it is a much closer cousin to dvd... For this reason, a special burner and special disk is not required to burn and play back HD. Blu ray has yet to work this out and it is still very much a guessing game as to weather or not it can even be worked out."

It's true you didn't say "...a special burner and special disk is not required to burn onto the HD-DVD layer of an HD-DVD disk and play black HD content from the HD-DVD layer of an HD-DVD disk." However, your previous statements in the same paragraph make it quite clear that that would the most likely interpretation of whay you said, since what you now claim to have meant by what you said is clearly non-sequitur relative to "Hd-dvd has a distinct advantage over blu-ray" (a sentiment expressed in the context of a discussion about strategic advantage.)

What you are talking about is simply the ability to write an MPEG2 transport stream onto an SD DVD, using an SD DVD burner. Any SD DVD player that has the hardware and software needed to decode MPEG2 transport streams (which is all of them,) and whose hardware and software for SD DVD playback can handle HD content (as far as I know, only the Toshiba HD-DVD players have this ability,) could do what you describe.

Obviously, Toshiba decided to permit its HD-DVD players to route any HD content, regardless of whether it comes from the HD-DVD layer of an HD-DVD disk, or from an SD disk, or from the SD layer of an HD-DVD disk, through the player's hardware and software that handles HD content. There is no reason that other manufacturers could not do the same for their players also, whether those players are standard-def-only, HD-DVD or Blu-ray. For all I know, some of them already have, or will in the near future. I haven't tried it yet on my DMP-BD10, but I will.

Bottom line: There is no strategic advantage for HD-DVD here. Therefore, my original statement is completely correct, and your claim otherwise is false.