Definitive Technology SuperCube Trinity - Page 2  

Agreed,Definitive adds are funny.Their products priced within reason. Monstah Keible(for fear of being sued by Monstah Lee) reached new heights in absurdity by suing people for so little.

I have the Sigma and M2.4 15ft speaker cables...shame on me. I hope this will make them think twice before suing a high profile customer.

Really not much different than any other component, is it?

I mean after all, if you auditioned speakers that were rated +/-3dB 20Hz to 20Khz and another pair that had no published rating, would you insist on buying the speaker with the published rating even if you thought the non-rated speaker sounded better in your audition?

This is just like Thanksgiving at home.

I would not, no. However, I am not the type of buyer that their marketing is directed at. For the record, I did not (and don't remember reading ANY) bashing of Definitives products in this thread. So J.H. can chill out. I have owned Definitive and they build a decent product. I was mearly cautioning the O.P. about putting too much weight on their specs because he was refering to them in his posts. My origional post was this:

"This is not meant to discredit the Trinity at all (because I have never heard one and it may be a fine subwoofer) but take Definitives specs with a grain of salt. They have a long history of "spec messaging"."

That says nothing about the product itself. Tell me I am wrong about their published specs being shady at best though. Thats all I was saying. Don't base your decision on their specs.

-Eli

Totally agree. One should not buy on specs alone.

I did ask the question directly to DT why no +/- tolerance on their speaker and I did get an answer - FWIW...

Essentially (these are my words, not quotes) as I remember the gist of the response;

1. The listed response is the usable FR in a typical setting.

2. There is no standardized way to conduct the FR test. Therefore, unless the speakers are /were tested by the same method by all mfg., the results are not apples to apples anyway.

3. What matters most is the sound, listen and make your choice accordingly.

They're all relatively vague, but no more so than the reasons people have different perceptions of what sounds good.

I too am curious of the performance of this subwoofer. Being it's use of 2 14inch woofers it should have some pretty solid handling, and as a fan of DT it would be nice to have a full spectrum system including the subwoofer, and this seems to be their best offer. I've sadly only heard the SCIII and II, and was not impressed with either, however they were not in an enclosed area, and obviously would have less ouput performance in such a wide open area as the main opening section of the Magnolias.

The said statements about their exageration on specs is acceptable, but it is clear that it is highly taken out of proportion to what they get in real life situations. And a comparison to Monster Cables or Bose is absolutly absurd. Is Deftech using paper cone woofers? Are they using a "Bass Moduel" that only goes down to 46hz? I think not, and the cost is not a 10X fold similar to those company's, thos comparisons are absolutly rediculous. Plus having the full range due to the subwoofer integration seems like a great way for people with lesser budgest to get larger performances from a budget.

So if anyone has any test chart for frequency response they could post or find, it'd be great for alot of people interested in the product.

Again to the OP don't listen to these people. check out the Trinity. It will astound you at how powerful it is. It was developed originally for a church and is quite powerful. Its as stated by Definitive too.Great company,great customer service.great warranty,great speakers and AWESOME subs! I think you'll be quite impressed and proud to own DTs like I do and lots of others do. were not child like as some morons on here would like you to believe. I hope you have a chance to check them out.

To end this thread turned sour. I excuse my finger pointing at the adds(yes they are shouty).

I will audition the upscale Definitive Trinity and largest cube subs they make. And post an honnest impressions.

Gina,
Welcome to testosterone central. There are very few threads that ask for recommendations that don't invoke some kind of war. If you don't take these things personally, it can be quite entertaining. If you don't like bickering, then run.

I don't believe too many noticed you are female or we might have been on our best behavior. Not too many girls in this forum.

Only with a few products. When its Definitive Technology speakers people love to bash the speakers and there owners in a very personal way. Thats only when I get involved. I read this thread and when the speakers were attacked unfairly and then the people who bought them I have to step in. When ever its a DTS/Dolby Digital discussion STAY FAR AWAY! That one will get bloody over something that is very stupid. When ever a thread turns political usually in DVD discussion threads STAY FAR AWAY! Also do not ever go into the Processors/amps/receivers section and say you like anything but DENON. If you say you like any other brand be prepared to be KILLED!I go on there all the time to say how great B&K products are and people have FITS! If I were to express my love for DENON no one would say a word but if its another brand be prepared. Thats pretty much it though.

Again,

Sorry for jumping out,you know what I may end up buying a Trinity ...dual 14" woofers and four PR's.Must at least be a very capable sub(SPL wise and extension). Always looking to expand my subsonic army.

Within the next two weeks I will make sure to find time an audition the Trinity.

I think the bottom line is that you probably have two capable subwoofers. The ideal situation would be for you to audition both subwoofers yourself, and make your own decisions.

IMHO, you can't go wrong with either subwoofer.

If somebody can test this sub and compare it to others, that would be great.
There is a new wave of these super subs. Massive amps, multiple drivers. Some
promise huge performance. Some will deliver, some will not, but the dam has been
broken. We will continue to see bigger and badder subs come along. Everybody
wants to be able to hang their hats on the biggest and baddest. And who ever is
king, won't be for long. Which, by the way, is great news for US! Competition will
keep these manufacturers turning out better and better products. Most of us will
get to actually hear very few of these products. Most of us will be happy with them
in our home. Is this Trinity the end all of subs, who knows. What I do know is that
this is a jump in performance that we all should be happy about.

really makes you wonder what SVS's new ultra's gonna look like...

Friends, I have a DefTech SuperCube Reference and have been very happy with it. It performs well, both HT and music, and can pound pretty loud.

I listened to a variety of options, from about $1,000 - $2,500 for a powered sub and the tone and punch of the SC Ref was among the best.

The Trinity looks to be about like 2 SC Refs. It's big at 36" tall. But, I would think that having two subs, instead of one giant one lke the Trinity, might be a better setup. That being said, the Trinity is probably a special use component for a BIG theater.

I haven't heard bad things about DefTech's service, but if someone has a link to a thread where this is discussed, I would appreciate it. I have never contacted them.

Getting back on track here gentlemen, I have the luxury to work in the industry and am able to demo items at my home. Currently, I am doing a comparison between the JL Audio F113 vs. the Definitive Technology Trinity. For the longest time my main subwoofer in this room has been my tried and true Sunfire Signature. The bashing that the Sunfire receives is, in my opinion, a load of crap! I have had this sub since March 1999 (almost 8 years), and it has beaten out many many competitors. Remember people, this design is considered ancient. Having only spent around 5 hours thus far comparing these 3 subs, I will say that they are all excellent! I have heard so much about the Fathom F113 as being the best sub period at this moment, that I had to try it in my own dedicated theatre. You may not want to hear this, but at this particular moment, the Trinity seems to be going lower, and with more bang! I will be honest, I am thinking I have done something wrong with setup because with all I read on this forum, Def Tec is crap and JL is the king. Boys, unless you have the same luxury I have, you should not be so biased with one product. As far as "real" pricing is concerned, I would argue that one could purchase 2 Trinity's for a little more than one Fathom, but I can tell you from what I have heard so far, this would no longer be a close contest as 2 Trinity's would destroy 1 Fathom F113. Don't get me wrong, this Fathom sounds incredible, seems to sound a little more controlled, but as far as overall SPL, Trinity seems to be leading right now. I am feverishly trying to get both of these puppies broken in with 24/7 use. And as far as the Sunfire Signature is concerned, it is definitely holding its own. I question if some of your rooms are simply living rooms with absolutely no room treatments. If so, your reviews are flawed.

"The bashing that the Sunfire receives is, in my opinion, a load of crap! "

Thank you very much,just confirming what I am saying since a few years,those who claim the Sunfire is a boom box are deaf clowns! Who cannot read the Sunfire manual and set it up correctly.

Again thank you for an honnest post.The bashers should read.

As for a sub using dual larger woofers in a ported(four PR's) being louder,no wonder. Where the f113 magic operated is in best sound quality and very good output down low.

It is funny to listen to the bashing that goes on these threads. I work for a High End Custom AV company that deals in many of the top brands including Krell, Arcam, Lexicon, Martin Logan, Totem, M&K, JL Audio, Kaleidescape, Crestron, to name a few. Oh, and yes, Definitive Technology, Monster Cable, Yamaha, & Marantz. The company consists of 10 of us, and we ALL have different setups in our houses! Hmmm.... We also are completely different individuals. I guess you could say I am the one who is the youngest at heart when it comes to music tastes. My main genres are Rock, Country, & Dance. I guess you could say, I am a Top 40 guy. I am 37 going on 25, not 25 going on 80. I sometimes laugh at the demo's we do. We use recordings (obviously) that are so well produced, that a $50 ghetto blaster could produce decent sound. But in many situations, these are recordings that most people will never listen to! As well, these artists may be legends, but my god man, this stuff is crap! I like my music to produce more that 10 beats per minute! When you exercise, does Mark Knopfler "Sailing To Philadelphia" get the juices flowing" I think not! Did you ever wonder why they call it Top 40 or POP? POP stands for popular, meaning, the mass enjoys this type of sound because it has a beat that so many can enjoy. I have a dedicated theatre in my home. I love movies, music, and gaming, and I want them all to look & sound great. However, I am not the guy who has a Hugh Hefner red velvet jacket and a pipe and sits by myself in a 12 x 10 room critiquing every ounce of substance that comes from a recording. Personally, I find alot of these folks to be pretentious turds! The bottom line, everybody is different, and there are many fantastic manufacturers out there. There is no single best product out there. This is all subjective! My speakers of choice... Definitive Technology BP7000SC, CLR3000, BPVX x 2 Pairs, and either the Trinity, the Fathom F113, or keep my money and stay with the Sunfire Signature sub. My room sounds awesome! But remember, I've never owned Hef's jacket and have never been called a pretentious turd! Whew, that felt good!

This message is for TheEAR. A fellow Canadian. You seem to have vast knowledge in the sub area. Good god man, are you being completely honest when you talk about all the great subs you own? This would not come cheap. If true, then that is awesome.

I gotta tell ya man, from what I am hearing from this Trinity vs. the F113, I am leaning towards the Trinity at this moment. But from what you can tell, my tastes would not be considered "Audiophile Quality". As well, my theatre is rather large at 22 x 14.

However, the Fathom does sound FANTASTIC. I have been a HUGE fan of JL Audio, since their entry into Car Audio. This is my other love. I have $15,000 invested in my Car which consists of JL Audio, McIntosh Amps, Kef speakers & Precision Power equalization.

yes i know they havent thats why theyre a notch below monster cable...

I can tell you as a dealer of Definitive Technology, they are one of the BEST company's to deal with. PERIOD! Sometimes I think people complain for the sake of complaining. Actually out of all the speakers we carry, turnaround time for service is the fastest with Def Tec. In one of my other posts I mentioned some of the lines we carrry. The people that work there are courteous and friendly and very supportive. They do not argue what is wrong with the unit. We simply call them up and tell them what part we need, and it is sent out same day. If it happens again, we tell them we want a replacement unit, and guess what, they send it immediately. Try getting that type of service from some of the other top name manufacturers. I am not going to bash names, but some of these "Audiophile" companies will leave the client hanging for 6 to weeks to get the item fixed.

I would argue that your beef is with the store that carries DT, not DT themselves. As far as specs are concerned, please tell me you are not so naive to purchase solely on specs! You were born with a set of ears, use them! For an example, I prefer the sound of Arcam Amps over Krell. How many times will you hear that?

As far as Monster Cable goes, we too, are dealers of that brand. Once again, as far as the relationship between them and the dealer is concerned, it is absolutely FANTASTIC! If you have an issue, you should be going back to your sales rep and have them deal with the issue; but that would require you to shop at a reputable shop. I would suggest you stop shopping at "Good Time Charlie and His Deals of The Week Audio & Video", because I think you are getting bent (if you know what I mean).

What do you mean by bad business practices? Did Noel Lee sneak into your bedroom one night (driving his sequay), pull down your pants, and spank you in an unlawful manner? And because of this, you are now bitter, because you don't want your friends to find out? Seriously, they market a product, they let the consumer choose, and if the consumer does not like it, they return it for a FULL refund. End of story. Done! I am confused? I will agree that they are more expensive, in my opinion, for the same quality of product. However, there stuff looks cool, and that to me, is worth the extra cash. And that is why my entire system is connected via M-Series 1000, AVS2000SS and an HTPS7000SS. As far as quality is concerned, I will do a double blind study with anyone when it comes to cables. This means that you sit your soft cushy butt on a couch in a room, I blindfold you (prior to you putting on Hugh Hef's red velvet jacket and lighting up your pipe. I am trying to set the mood here for the 2 channel guys), and then I play different cables. Notice how I said I will play different cables, not music. Now it's your turn, all mighty ears! You must guess (did I say guess?) 8 out of 10 times correctly which cable you are listening to. I will use 3 manufacturers of high end cables, all in the same price category. I will wager whatevery you want, I am that confident you will lose. My point is this: Monster Cable makes damn good product. Once you achieve M1000 level, you are at the top of cable technology, and I will be damned if people can notice the slight nuances between the different brands. Once again, Monster, like Microsoft, gets a bum rap because, let's face it, they have succeeded, and that pisses off the "little angry man" sitting in his mom's basement bitching at all that's unfair in this world.

I can also tell you, from being a dealer, that some of these high end, mad scientist, audiophile products have some of the highest defective rates that I have seen. I know if I spent 10 grand on a CD Player that was rubbed with 100% goatskin oil suspended on a triangular cone, to sustain the earth's orbital pressure, broke in the first week, I would be pissed. People always feel that they are somehow more impressive when they support that one dude that nobody has ever heard of vs. the corportate monster.

I'm done, for now...

I haven't heard anything Def Tech for some time. I will chime in though b/c I used to own a Def Tech subwoofer quite a few years ago -the PF1500TL. I've long since upgraded but at the time I enjoyed the sub. As a college age engineering student interested in sub modelling, I had a few technical questions about it and called Def Tech. No one was there so I left a message. Sandy Gross called me back later that day and we chatted for 20 minutes about the technical specifications. He was very helpful, very interesting, and I enjoyed dealing with the company. Years later I would have enough design info/experience to realize that everything he told me was technically sound.

-C

I just wanted to add my comments to this thread. I own DefTech speakers, but not bipolars (don't really care for the sound of bipolars). And I'm considering an upgrade for my SuperCube I.

About 3 years ago when I was deciding on my speaker setup, I had an idea to put some speakers in Salamander cabinets to hide them for WAF. I emailed Definitive and got a reply from one of their engineers/product developers. He must have answered 20 of my emails full of what I'm sure to him were stupid questions. He was incredibly patient and helpful.

I really didn't expect that kind of personal service from a company, certainly I haven't experienced that many times before. I realize that DT makes mass market products, but my buddy and I have had their speakers for years and they've performed very well and reliably, so I can't fault them for quality in any way.

I think by definition, some people resent the mass market brands and I understand the psychology behind that. I've made fun of Bose a time or two myself.

All that being said, I've added the Trinity to my short list to listen to. tmternes, can you give us any more feedback on your comparison between the JL f113 and the Trinity?

Yeah we all have our opinions.

Hsu Research was originally called "Definitive Research", and Definitive Technology wanted them to change it. I don't recall this getting particularly ugly, but it was changed.

I have owned BP-2000's, 3000's, the bookshelf models with built in subs, and a couple 15 inch subs. Def Tech makes pretty good stuff - they are also formidable marketers.

tmternes ... please check your PM. Thanks ...

tmtermes, anyone else with opinions on the Trinity?

One thing I noticed in this thread was folks saying the Trinity was a lot cheaper than a f113. But the MSRP I have is $3200/$3300 for the Fathom and $2999 for the Trinity. Doesn't seem like much of a difference to me.

Gina, for 3 grand you have lots of choices. Make this a fun experience and go out and audition subs, better yet see if you can take 'em home without buying, [some stores let's you do that]or see if they refund your money as oppose to exchahenge it to something you don't want, if you not happy with it[some stores don't like that]. I always say to people that upgrading or just putting a new set together should be half the fun this hobby can afford you. Have some fun girl!

After listening to many different subs, I am reminded just how good my HGS 18 is. It really is legendary. Movies or music, this thing puts out.

I have the same question. I had almost made up my mind to go with the Trinity for that reason, but then we watched a couple of movies tonight and I realized how much music was in the soundtracks. So now that has me wondering if the JL Fathom would serve better.

I know, I gotta go listen to them