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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 370

post #11071 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

I have the old M-1s as my rears. How are the new M-1s better? They appear to be exactly the same size/design. I have a hard time believing they are anything more than marginally better than the old M-1.

Also I would think the 685 would be much better as a rear surround due to its size and the fact that it is front ported. However, maybe the rear port on the M-1 is giving more of a surround sensation? I just bought the M-1 because they were a good deal and I think they look pretty slick with the wires all hidden.

I am basing my opinion on the new M-1's soley from the numerous reviews comparing the old ones to the new. Universally the new ones have rated much better. I agree that the 685 could sound better due to their size but my system did not need that out of the rears and the new m-1's increased their dynamic range making the comparison much closer.
post #11072 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish5225 View Post


I am basing my opinion on the new M-1's soley from the numerous reviews comparing the old ones to the new. Universally the new ones have rated much better. I agree that the 685 could sound better due to their size but my system did not need that out of the rears and the new m-1's increased their dynamic range making the comparison much closer.

Would you mind linking some reviews of the new M-1, I was having trouble finding any. I'm sure they are an improvement, I just think there is a consensus that small speakers struggle to sound anything but small. I agree that the 685 is probably overkill for surrounds and I think the difference between using the new or old m-1 as surrounds is probably indiscernible. However someone using the new m-1s as fronts would notice a difference.
post #11073 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

Would you mind linking some reviews of the new M-1, I was having trouble finding any. I'm sure they are an improvement, I just think there is a consensus that small speakers struggle to sound anything but small. I agree that the 685 is probably overkill for surrounds and I think the difference between using the new or old m-1 as surrounds is probably indiscernible. However someone using the new m-1s as fronts would notice a difference.

http://www.hificentre.com/Products-S...ce-Review.aspx

http://www.whathifi.com/review/mt-60d

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...s-m-1-pv1d-pre

from HIFIX:
One of the most dramatic upgrades from the out-going B&W M-1 is this speaker's full range performance: it now offers a stereo performance comparable to Bowers & Wilkins bookshelf speakers. In order to achieve these improvements the Bowers & Wilkins M-1 has been completely redesigned internally, with subtle but significant styling differences externally. It features all new drive units, including an in-house designed tweeter, and a bass/mid-range driver that uses the new Anti-Resonance Plug first seen on the high-end PM1 loudspeaker. As well as these acoustic improvements, the mechanics of the B&W M1 Satellite Speakers have been updated, with improved speaker cable terminations and a more robust connection to the stands.
post #11074 of 17972
Last night I picked up a set of 6833's so today I will set them up using my685's as surrounds and well see how they sound. Does anyone use the plinth as a base or just ass the spikes. just curious.
post #11075 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Last night I picked up a set of 6833's so today I will set them up using my685's as surrounds and well see how they sound. Does anyone use the plinth as a base or just ass the spikes. just curious.

I use the plinth with the spikes,but I turned it around so the protruding edge sticks out the back instead of the front.
post #11076 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

I use the plinth with the spikes,but I turned it around so the protruding edge sticks out the back instead of the front.

Ill probably try it with the protruding out front as I have room there. back would be tighgt. How do you like them.
post #11077 of 17972
I use the plinth with the rubber feet on tile flooring. I prefer the look and stability the plinth provides.
post #11078 of 17972
Thanks for the links sofast1. I'll have to give these a listen sometime. As well as the PM1, as it sounds like they could be a good match for a theater/music room. I can definitely +1 the reviews that say it has a better mechanical design as I handled them at Best Buy.
post #11079 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Ill probably try it with the protruding out front as I have room there. back would be tighgt. How do you like them.

One of the reasons I turned them around is that you don't want them real close to the wall behind them(at least a foot away). They're a great buy,you'd have to spend twice as much to do a little better(just my opinion). If you think they sound great with an AVR,power them with a high current power amp! You ain't heard nothin' yet!
post #11080 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

I use the plinth with the rubber feet on tile flooring. I prefer the look and stability the plinth provides.

I use the spikes with the little floor discs,on a tile floor. Probably doesn't make any audible difference,but it looks cooler(a little more space between the plinth and the floor). But, it's a real pain to move the speakers-even just an inch.
post #11081 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

One of the reasons I turned them around is that you don't want them real close to the wall(at least a foot away). They're a great buy,you'd have to spend twice as much to do a little better(just my opinion). If you think they sound great with an AVR,power them with a high current power amp! You ain't heard nothin' yet!

Mine are three freet from the wall behind and two feet in from the side walls. for now I will be powering them with my Onkyo txnr3009 I think it has a pretty decent amp section. I had two emo amps I just sold and down the road when I replenish my funds I am sure to look for a good two channel at least for these two . Almost ready to hook up might try the rubber feet on the plinth wife hates spikes . got to give something to her.
post #11082 of 17972
Valleys of Neptune----------Jimi Hendrix
post #11083 of 17972
First Rays of the New Rising Sun-------------Jimi Hendrix
post #11084 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post


One of the reasons I turned them around is that you don't want them real close to the wall behind them(at least a foot away). They're a great buy,you'd have to spend twice as much to do a little better(just my opinion). If you think they sound great with an AVR,power them with a high current power amp! You ain't heard nothin' yet!

I think we can all agree the gap between the CM and the Diamond line is much larger than the gap between the 600 and the CM line.

However, I did have a fantastic demo at the Modia home theater store last time I was in Dallas that really showed the difference between the CM and the 600.

All in all I've seen some used CM8-9 that go for a little more than the 683. I got my CM9s for about 40-50% off by buying used. It's like buying a new car, if you can live without taking off the wrapper you can find some good deals out there.
post #11085 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

I think we can all agree the gap between the CM and the Diamond line is much larger than the gap between the 600 and the CM line.

However, I did have a fantastic demo at the Modia home theater store last time I was in Dallas that really showed the difference between the CM and the 600.

All in all I've seen some used CM8-9 that go for a little more than the 683. I got my CM9s for about 40-50% off by buying used. It's like buying a new car, if you can live without taking off the wrapper you can find some good deals out there.

Then you'd have to compare the prices of used 683s(also 40-50% off). apples to apples. I just think that looking at new prices,there's more competition for the CM9s at $3000 @ pair than there is for the 683s at $1500 @ pair. I think the 683s are no-brainers(the reviews agree). I'm not saying anything bad about the CMs. Looking at used equipment(just like cars) there's a lot more to consider. Unlike used cars however,most electronics and speakers do not have a transferable warranty(like your out-of-warranty used CM9s) and you're buying it "as is",cosmetic flaws and all. Hopefully you can audition and inspect it before buying,but then you're limited to local sources. Non-local sources will charge shipping. The point is(just like cars) when buying used,all is rarely equal, so it's hard to compare prices(unlike new). The bottom line is that as long as you feel you got a great deal and you love what you got, then all is good!
post #11086 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Then you'd have to compare the prices of used 683s(also 40-50% off). apples to apples. I just think that looking at new prices,there's more competition for the CM9s at $3000 @ pair than there is for the 683s at $1500 @ pair.

I agree, and I didn't mean to slight the 600s in a value based contest where they obviously win every time. I just meant to provide the readers of this thread who's budgets are in the $1500ish-$2,200ish range an additional option. Most buyers with that type of budget aren't looking for used 683s probably (~$1000).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

I think the 683s are no-brainers(the reviews agree). I'm not saying anything bad about the CMs.

I've read the reviews. I've demoed the 600 series and the CMs. When I had my most recent demo at Modia the sales person was very knowledgeable. In fact he seemed too smart to be working at Modia, no slight to Modia, but he spoke like someone with an advanced degree in acoustics (and I'm an aerospace engineer, so I would know). He explained that at lower volumes the CM and 600 series sound very similar (makes sense to me, almost identical drivers). He then told me the CM was a more efficient speaker (I guess due to crossover and cabinet?) and performed better at the higher volumes. After that he played some material for us and I noticed the difference at the higher volumes just like he said. I'm not going to use words like better detail, or less harsh, because I don't have "golden ears" nor do I have extensive experience reviewing speakers. I'll just say it sounded better to ME. And like I said before much bigger gap between the 800 series and CMs than CMs and 600s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Looking at used equipment(just like cars) there's a lot more to consider. Unlike used cars however,most electronics and speakers do not have a transferable warranty(like your out-of-warranty used CM9s) and you're buying it "as is",cosmetic flaws and all.

I agree that the used market of anything can be a crapshoot. However, I would consider that anyone who owns high end speakers (read anything B&W), probably takes pretty good care of them. I know the middle aged gentleman I bought mine from kept them perfect (only 6 months old).

And if something was wrong, as far as warranty goes I have all of the receipts and boxes for mine. I'm also on very good terms with the store the first owner purchased them from. In fact they are going to send back a broken M-1 to B&W for repair that I didn't even buy from them (again used)! I realize these aren't givens in most used situations as we saw earlier in this thread (no boxes). Maybe I'm just lucky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Hopefully you can audition and inspect it before buying,but then you're limited to local sources. Non-local sources will charge shipping. The point is(just like cars) when buying used,all is rarely equal, so it's hard to compare prices(unlike new). The bottom line is that as long as you feel you got a great deal and you love what you got, then all is good!

Ok, maybe I'm just really lucky that my purachase was local. Again all I'm saying is buyers in the 600 series price range should at least check eBay, AudiogoN, etc. to see what's out there. You never know.
post #11087 of 17972
Wow set up my 683's and all I can say is wow. The 685's are great with them as surrounds. But I found myself listening mostly to 2 channel music and I have not enjoyed that so much in years. The immaging detail and sllam is super. They were definately worth every penney.The 685's might be overkill as surrounds but I would rather kep them then take any loss selling them.
post #11088 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Wow set up my 683's and all I can say is wow. The 685's are great with them as surrounds. But I found myself listening mostly to 2 channel music and I have not enjoyed that so much in years. The immaging detail and sllam is super. They were definately worth every penney.The 685's might be overkill as surrounds but I would rather kep them then take any loss selling them.

It's been a while since I mentioned this, so please excuse the repeat: I bought a pair of Behringer B2031P to see what all the chatter was about ... and ended up preferring them to the 685s as surrounds, mostly because they appeared to be slightly less localizable and somehow better at covering the backmost corners . This is with 683s as fronts and 685s for DSX wides, center, and surround back. While I can't guarantee anything, of course, I strongly recommend trying it out if it's convenient for you.
post #11089 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneV View Post


It's been a while since I mentioned this, so please excuse the repeat: I bought a pair of Behringer B2031P to see what all the chatter was about ... and ended up preferring them to the 685s as surrounds, mostly because they appeared to be slightly less localizable and somehow better at covering the backmost corners . This is with 683s as fronts and 685s for DSX wides, center, and surround back. While I can't guarantee anything, of course, I strongly recommend trying it out if it's convenient for you.

How do u like dsx?
post #11090 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post


How do u like dsx?

Wouldn't be without it. I've re-evaluated the effect a couple of times, several months apart, and it's an open and shut case for me.
post #11091 of 17972
At this point I am very happy with the five B&W's i have center 600s front l/r 683's and back polks bi/di pole. for the front heights I have def tech bipoles. For dsx I hear no problem. Doen the road I might try your suggestion but I think I have bought all I should for the time being. I also am running two big 18 inch subs. The biggest difference I ever noticed in my system is the addition of the 683's. I crrently am rediscovering my cd collection these to me are amazing for the price i got them for. Thanks for your suggestions.
post #11092 of 17972
I too love my 683's great towers for the price. What type of power amp are you using for yours? Currently mine are just being bi-amped by my AVR (weak I know), but I have been looking in to used Rotel and Anthem amps, any suggestions?
post #11093 of 17972
For what it's worth, I've convinced myself that timbre matching fronts and DSX speakers is at least as important as fronts and center.
post #11094 of 17972
Specs sheet says that 683's are 8Ω 90dB speakers. Is there really any need for powerful amp?
post #11095 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by giedrys View Post

Specs sheet says that 683's are 8Ω 90dB speakers. Is there really any need for powerful amp?

Yes. The spec sheet also calls out a 200W capability which my receiver probably does half that even though it is a Pioneer Elite receiver. By using a dedicated amp there's room for improvement in more than just how "loud" it can get. The output can be more crisp and clear due to lower distortion levels, plus a lot of the claimed wattage outputs of AVR's are a stretch and a dedicated amp will, most of time, be truer to its claims.
post #11096 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneV View Post

For what it's worth, I've convinced myself that timbre matching fronts and DSX speakers is at least as important as fronts and center.

Which receiver are you using?

Also is the effect just a wider soundstage during scenes with panning? I'm guessing those with narrower spaces won't get as much out of DSX?
post #11097 of 17972
I have heard and tried it both ways. I have had large speakers small speakers with and without power amps. The best advise I have received recently was the receiver I have is more than powerful enough for what I want or need. The reccomendation was upgrade your speakers before adding power amps. I had a couple of power amps in the front three channels and sold them and got the 683's. This was the greatest improvement I have ever experienced. As far as timbre matching I believe the experts reccomend timberematching all but at least the main 5. I find having different backs and sides and heights seems to blend fine. Might rethink later on as this hobby always finds it way to suggest improvements once we get used or bored with what we have. I find for my .02 the Onkyo txnr-3009 is way mor than enough for my needs. I am loving the 683's and the 685;s make great side (surround speakers) the other dsx or neo x are mainly used for ambience and seem to blend in well.
s
post #11098 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneV View Post

For what it's worth, I've convinced myself that timbre matching fronts and DSX speakers is at least as important as fronts and center.

What is DSX?

Are you saying the rear surrounds need to match the fronts?
post #11099 of 17972
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I have heard and tried it both ways. I have had large speakers small speakers with and without power amps. The best advise I have received recently was the receiver I have is more than powerful enough for what I want or need. The reccomendation was upgrade your speakers before adding power amps. I had a couple of power amps in the front three channels and sold them and got the 683's. This was the greatest improvement I have ever experienced. As far as timbre matching I believe the experts reccomend timberematching all but at least the main 5. I find having different backs and sides and heights seems to blend fine. Might rethink later on as this hobby always finds it way to suggest improvements once we get used or bored with what we have. I find for my .02 the Onkyo txnr-3009 is way mor than enough for my needs. I am loving the 683's and the 685;s make great side (surround speakers) the other dsx or neo x are mainly used for ambience and seem to blend in well.
s

Do you have any power amps on your current system? If not, what were you using? Also, I've never heard of the term "timberematching"...
post #11100 of 17972
I just wanted to give a second or third shout out to new MT60's. I had a chance to sit in on a demo of these yesterday and they were brilliant. Clear, detailed and strong dynamics. As long as they are placed in modest rooms, without using an excessive amount of volume, I don't see any limitations at all in their sound. They of course wont work best in very large rooms, and certainly wont play reference level db's, but for those who like a little more refinement and polish to their sound, at this price I don't think there are too many criticisms to come it's way.

Also had another chance to hear the Prestige Monitors (PM1) on far right in picture. I almost like them as much as the 805D's. In fact in some ways they may even be a tad more even handed all the way up the frequency range. Of course they can't match the bass of the 805's, but they sounded so sweet and airy I almost couldn't believe it.

And of course I had to listen to the 804 for about the millionth time before they finally dragged me out of there. Of course they sounded OK Just OK though.
LL
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