B&W Owner's Thread - Page 373

I have actually listened to the whole 800 Diamond series and find that the 805 has a warmer, more soothing treble and mid-range thatn the 804. Since you are already going to spend this much, I would trade up to the 803's. They sound much better.

You can easily rotate the logo for horizontal placement.

Thanks
I can't afford the 803D...
So I guess I will stick to the 805s and HTM4s for now. The 805s is being used in a fine stereo setup, and the HTM was an impulse buy in case I do use the 805s in a HT setup. Currently I have an 11 channel Monitor Audio based HT system that is pretty finely balanced, but lacks the stereo and musical quality of my 805s.

I prefer a warmer tone, so if the 804D is brighter / less warm, I will skip that.

Cheers

Ah, I remember the good old days,when folks would actually go listen to speakers and make up their own minds. You would make such a decision based on someone else's tastes and hearing response,which could be entirely different from yours??

True, but the sad part is that it is much more difficult to listen to decent HiFi equipment anymore. Just not many B&M dealers around anymore.

I have owned many speakers that I consider bright, and to me none of the 800 series have that quality - at least not to me. I may not be as sensitive as the next person to a bright sound, but to me every speaker in the 800 line, and I have heard them all - extensively, they do not sound bright, unless of course the source is bright. You have to understand that a lot of people that audition speakers these days will use newer pop/rock or even worse rap to listen to speakers. These new recording are already mixed hot to start with, so of course they are going to give somebody the impression that the speakers are bright.

I would audition these speakers, or any speakers for that matter, with some very good classic orchestra pieces. Even if you do not listen to this type of music. You need to know how well a piano, trumpet sounds on speakers in this price range, because that will tell you how the speaker is handling different octaves and chords. When a piano is recorded properly and then played back it will give a world of knowledge to a person evaluating the speakers true potential.

Musical instruments are easy to pick out when a piece of music is well recorded.

So much music today is made up of of synthesizers that while they may attempt to accurately reproduce what a full ensemble orchestra or even classic rock band would, these are not true musical instruments being produced on a lot of pop/rock music today. As for rap music, well uh - never-mind. Synthesized music, IMO, is what has led the music industry down a path to crap. How many true bands do you see anymore, and by true bands I mean bands that didn't change the effect of how a guitar sounds or how a piano sounds. Today we have mostly solo pop singers, with a synthesized musical track behind them. God only knows how this music is master and recorded by the engineers in studio in the first place. I can only imagine how it sounds off itunes.

Sorry for the tanget, but I agree with others that the best way to buy speakers is to do lots of listening to the best kind of music that you can get your hands on and then make up your mind.

Yes, it does require more(sometimes much more) of an effort than it used to. I live near a fairly large metro area(Tampa,Clearwater,St. Pete) and there's only one bonafide dealer where you can audition speakers(luckily a B&W dealer). The list of quality speakers(Monitor Audio,Focal,Revel,Paradigm,Maggies,Boston Acoustics,better JBL and Infinity for a start) that I can't listen to seems endless. However,if you're considering 800 series B&W's(or comparable speakers), I think the effort is worth it. If I have to take a day off to hear 'em,it's a day wisely spent before spending that kind of money.

Not that I necessarily disagree with you here (and have not heard 800 series speakers myself) but couldn't you do a direct comparison between two speakers with overly bright music and see that one set is brighter sounding than the other set? A better judgement of speakers might be to get your hands on the best quality of music you actually listen to and judge then. If one likes newer pop music then they are going to listen to overly bright music. Better to get speakers that make that kind of music sound best.

Fair enough. As always it really does come down to taste in music and speaker choice based off of that choice. To me I find a lot of the newer pop/rock music to be rather fatiguing to listen to. Then again this is not necessarily my style of music to start with so perhaps I am off base in recommending a speaker for that purpose.

And that is also a good point. Some speakers might also just be better for certain types of music. But ultimately you need to be happy with your speakers on the types of music you prefer.

That's what is so great about actually being able to do a direct comparison. So much can be learned from actually listening.

+1,sometimes I get so weary of people on these threads asking what speaker they should buy. They just need to get off their asses,turn off the computer,go out and listen to some speakers!

Hi folks-

Is the Marantz 50w per channel NR1402 going to be enough to drive a pair of CM1's?

I moved a large display into my bedroom a couple of weeks back when I replaced it with something new. The TV only speakers bug me on a 55inch display even if just for bedroom.

I got it in my mind I was going to order and try the Focal Dome but having a long weekend I grew impatient (a bad trait of mine) and decided to research and investigate some of the BB/Magnolia speakers. I also needed an AVR for bedroom
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I ended up with a pair of the M1's and the Marantz NR1402. You know those little speakers are pretty decent and they should have been plenty for me for a bedroom set-up. The AVR was okay to drive a pair and the vocals were warm and good sounding. Maybe a little congested but really pretty dang good. I struggled with the mids and some of the backscene noises. Very subdued. Not so great at lower listening levels but when I hit the volume pretty dang good for a speaker of this caliber.

Also, my main living room rig is not B&W but is on par with the diamond range. It is really hard to go from that as primary to the little M1s. It just hit me harder I think.

I wanted a smaller footprint. 2.0 to start and most likely 2.1 with a very small sub later. I am not looking to turn my bedroom into a full Surround set-up. I have all I need in the living-room but there are lazy Sundays etc where it is nice to kick back in the bedroom and watch a movie or game. The TV speakers don't cut-it.

I was going to go back and get a third M1 for center today and maybe even a small sub but decided against it. I decided to turn in the M1s and I picked up a pair CM1s. They sounded much better than the M1s in my brief audition(of course). So after my long story (sorry) will the Marantz NR1402 be enough for this pair of speakers? I love this slim design and for a bedroom it's perfect. If it drives the CM1s okay I will be happy. I just want a very enjoyable bedroom set-up for TV, an occasional blu-ray and occasional CDs. 2.0 or 2.1 should be perfect hence why I stepped up just a bit in speakers.I have a REL B2 in storage but think even that is too big for what I desire in the bedroom but it is just sitting there in a box. Bummer. Going to blow off the center as well.

Getting ready to put the stands together and set-up. Let you know how it sounds later.

Thanks
Rick

It's not an ideal match. The Marantz outputs 50 w.p.c. only in the 2 channel mode,probably around 25-30 w.p.c. in 5 ch. mode. Normally,50 watts would be enough(in 2 ch. mode),except the CM1s are not really efficient @ 84db. You might be o.k. at normal "bedroom" volume levels,but I wouldn't push it. The 685 would be a better match @ 88db and sound better than the CM1s(IMHO),if the different(vinyl) cabinet is o.k. Adding a small powered sub* would also help as the Marantz wouldn't have to power the low freq's. Or, you could just upgrade the Marantz. Try it and see how you like it. Keep in mind though, that if you're going to go surround the power output of the Marantz will drop signifigantly, and the CM1s are somewhat inefficient. Like I said, not an ideal match,but it might work.




*I just put a very small sub in my bathroom(don't ask) and it sounds great! If you want more info p.m. me.

Thanks! Yeah I figured I just don't want to go crazy in money or gear for the bedroom. I finally finished my living room set-up after several years and man I don't know if I will ever spend that sort of money again. It's worth it now and done but I did get a little obsessed for a while I admit.

I just wanted an attractive good sounding small set-up in the bedroom to get away from TV speakers. It will never be 5.1 but I could see taking it from 2.0 to 2.1 and MAYBE 3.1.

I bought the little Marantz yesterday when I picked up a pair of M1's. I should return it just to be safe but I don't want a huge AVR either. Marantz had a good idea here. I haven't purchased an AVR in a very long time as I have used seperates but I think I will return the Marantz (have 30 days) and order the NAD that I first thought about. It is publised 40 x 7 but since I will never be above 3 it should be a safe bet. A few hundred more than the Marantz but to be safe and not have to worry too much. Plus I have owned NAD before and love the sound.

I will try the Marantz for a couple of days to check it out.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAT748

Well got the stands together (nice B&W stands from BB) impressed. Speaker wires ready and just need to pull the monitors out of box and put in place and fire up. Those little M1s were pretty cool but I just couldn't get past a couple of things.

Okay- A sub in the bathroom!!?? Wow!

Rick

+1 on the NAD. I have a couple of NAD amps in one of my systems,like 'em a lot! NAD is a high current amp,will make the CM1s sing!

It's off topic,but not in conflict with B&W; If you want an inexpensive small sub for the bedroom,look at the Definitive Technology PROSUB60. It's 12 1/2" h,9 1/2" w,13"d. You can buy it for $100-$150 refurb or new on line,list is $350.They claim it goes down to 23hz,but I spoke to a Def Tech tech who said it's -3db at 30hz. It sounds great for such a little sub! I think it might be discontinued,but there are still some around. As for the bathroom system.....that's what happens when you retire after 40+ years in the audio business and no wife!(800 sq. ft. house w/5 systems incl.7 subwoofers)

WOW! Just what I was looking for in bedroom! These sound great and not even broken in or calibrated. What a HUGE difference over those little M1s. Glad I still have a little of obsessive behavior left in me. Fired up the TV and Kung Fu Panda came up on FX HD. It sounds great really. I am surprised at the level of bass being delivered from a tv broadcast show. Focals sound great.

The stands look great but after I seated the monitors they are not as wide as the top plate. Oh well. Still looks very good.

After I calibrate and wait a few days of run-in I must bring in my Dynaudio Focus 110's from the living room to compare. I use these as surround. I am very curious now but they are a 4ohm load and the Marantz may be futile.

Nice finish for sure but I have piano black on my Dynaudio Confidence front three. Does not compare but still a very nice finish but the Dynaudio front 3 were 16x the price of these ittle guys so i expect the finish to be in a different league.

Sitting on my bed with laptop and sweats. I may be in here a lot more often now! Not the living room set-up so dang comfy! Glad I did this.

I don't think I need a center. Not sure I need a sub yet either but too soon to tell. I may have to bring the REL B2 out of storage (or sell the dang thing). Such a waste. I now have B1s in the living room. I have the volume at 3/4's during the movie and that is the loudestI would expect in bedroom. Still think I will go with the NAD to be safe.

Really nice so far and just what I was looking for. And those M1s are nice little speakers to those that own them. I think it was a wise move for me to return in my sitution but can see how they work for many folks..

More to come...Need to check out blu-ray and some CDs if not tonight then tomorrow..
Rick

Thanks , after doing some research and all your comments and others I prolly get used and it come down to

803 s -front
htm 3 - center
PB13-ULTRA (svs) SUB

surround i guess i will do it last , i just want to focus my front first

This is IMHO, a tough choice. First though, I own N805s and 803S's and as I listen to these speakers, there are differences but neither really massively outshines the other. The 805s, regardless of version are fantastic speakers. The fact that they have but two drivers is in many ways a blessing. With one less crossover to deal with and a smaller cabinet, they really are very good. Bass is actually pretty decent for a bookshelf and is recognized as such when I EQ with Audyssey XT32. I often get a crossover setting of 60HZ. They have a fairly wide dispersion and really do sound great. Placement matters for Bass extension quite s bit. There are fans of the 805s over the rest of the series. Also, note the 805S are not very efficient. Much less so than the towers. I found this extremely noticeable when I had the 805s as fronts. With my Denon 4311 and earlier 4810 I really never got the full dynamic range of the speakers. I didn't know this until I powered them with Emotiva XPA-1s. When I did this, they really came alive. Never damaged them but played the. With a ton of power.

The 803s are really true full spectrum towers. They are recognized consistently as full with Audyssey EQ. The extra 30Hz of Bass output is noticeable and the FST driver does make for a slight tighter mid range. Also, they require less Amp power but substantial current to play to their best. For stereo playback dispersion is slightly better with a wider pattern.

I frankly, don't get a feeling of one speaker being more integrated across the range. The Towers are better and fuller sounding to me but the 805s are pretty fantastic. Both speakers sound better with good high current amplification. I know you are considering the . 804Diamonds. From my limited listening you don't get quite the Bass extension with the 804 series but they are similar to the 803s in most other results. If'n it were me, I guess the decision would come down to what do I listen to more video or good old stereo music. If budget were also a consideration, I would get the 805 Diamonds for fronts and get the matching center. Then I would look for used SCMS's, or SCM1's for Surrounds and perhaps rear surrounds. I know, different tweeters but it is what it is. Then splurge on two great subs and. You are golden. If Stereo is your gig, buy the 804 Diamonds and be happy. to top it. All off for movies, eventually move the 805 Diamonds to either Surround or Wides and go with a 5.2 + Wide configuration. This is audio bliss to me.

To me the 805D's are really the best bargain in the 800 series. It is astonishing how well these speakers sound when you give them good clean watts and enough watts to bring them to life. The funny thing is the first time I heard the 805D's they sounded a little thin and lifeless. Had this been my only experience with them I would have dismissed them right away. Then I had the opportunity to hear them in a dedicated, treated listening room with a music fidelity amp and my jaw hit the floor.

I don't know what it is about the 805's, but they can be a bit fussy when it comes to both room placement, the room in general and of course the amps you use.

Can any of you B&W guys tell me what the differences are between the 801 series 3, 801 mkii, and the 801 series 80? Are there much differences in performance or sound quality between these models? I have always wanted a pair of the older 801's, although I already have a pair of Salks, Ascends, and Definitive Technology speakers, I am sure I could dig out a spot for a pair of 801's!

I think that is a great approach if you can find them. The trick is finding the towers and the center and finding them in a matching finish. You may just have to run a stereo setup for a while if you can't find the center you need. Its no big deal, just build from the ground up.

Svs makes great subs I hear, rhythmic too. I think most would recommend those two brands. Any other servo or non servo subs in that price range people here recommend?

801 series 3 will be the best option. But even they are 20 years old now. You should be careful when you get speakers that old. Both drivers and crossovers deteriorate with age.

I have a pair of 604 S3s (maple) that I want to sell, but I have no idea how to price them. I checked audigon and ebay, but didn't find any listings. Does anyone know what a reasonable price would be? FWIW, I'm the original owner and I've babied them from day one (set a volume limit on my AVR to save them from my wife's listening habits). They're in mint condition, with very few hours on them (averaged about 10-12 hrs/month for the first couple of years, but only a couple of hrs/month since July 2008). Thanks.

Hi all I recently just bought a pair of 685's and connected them the bottom plugs (LF), the sound is great but wondering what the HF plugs are for.

My current setup is a 2.0 with just the 685's and my Denon 2312.

Should I have plugged in the HF and not the LF? Is there a difference? I didn't go the bi-wire route, and am not planning on doing so any time soon.

From page three of the owner's manual you don't want to read;


Connections
All connections should be made with the equipment
switched off.
There are 2 linked pairs of terminals on the back of the
speaker. For conventional connection the terminal links
should remain in place (as delivered) and just one pair
of terminals connected to the amplifier. For bi-wire
connection the terminal links should be removed and
each pair of terminals connected to the amplifier
independently


Unless you're bi-wiring or bi-amping,leave the links in place and you can use either the upper or lower connectors.

Welcome to the club!

I read through cover to cover, must have mis-read or missed it.

Thanks for the answer regardless.

Hi,

I recently purchased a pair of the new M-1 speakers, which I am hooking up tomorrow night as surround back speakers in order to complete a 7.1 surround setup. I'm running a Denon 4806 receiver (140wattsx7) and an Oppo BDP-93, and will be using a combination of analog 7.1 discrete multi-channel and digital 7.1 up-mixed multi-channel depending on source. The rest of my speakers are the original B&W 600 series circa mid-90's (DM640's for fronts, 600IFS for center channel, DS6 dipoles for surround, and AS6 subwoofer). All current speakers are placed at as ideal a location as I can manage in my family room (dipoles beside the listening position and approximately 20 inches above ear level, etc.). All speakers are set to Small in my receiver in order to funnel bass to the sub-woofer, and I am using Audyssey MultiEQxt as well as THX processing (again, depending on source). The exception to this is when I am listening to 2-channel music, at which point I have the DM640's set to Large and Room EQ turned off, running the receiver in Direct/Pure Direct mode.

I'm trying to nail down the correct placement for the M-1s, and I was hoping to get some feedback from the B&W gurus here. The M-1s will be going on a back wall that is about 4 feet behind my couch, and will likely need to be mounted a bit higher than I'd like, since my wife is rightfully concerned that the speakers will be a hazard if they are placed low enough for people to run into them while navigating our family room (the speakers will be mounted between two doors on the back wall). I plan on mounting them equa-distant to the prime listening area, and I will be using the system more heavily for movies/TV rather than music (probably 80/20 ratio). Here are my questions:

1. Is it acceptable to mount the surround back speakers higher than the regular side surround speakers - say as much as 3 or 4 feet above ear level, but angled down toward ear level? Should surround back speakers be angled directly toward ear level or still aim somewhat above ear level so as not to be too directional? Will mounting them this way be problematic when I do want to listen to multi-channel music?

2. How much does the width between surround back speakers matter? They can be as close together as a foot or two (recommended by THX for regular DD/DTS using ASA) or as far apart as 5 feet or more (recommended by Dolby and THX for TrueHD/DTS-HDMA). Again, I'd like the setup to accommodate both movies and music if possible.

3. I've seen several people mention foam plugs for the M-1s, but I didn't see any of these in the boxes for my pair - when would these be necessary, and where would I find them?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you may have...

Demian

New B&W P3 Headphones;

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blo...-p3-headphones

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Headph...3/explore.html

"the good old days" would have had plenty of people who asked friends for suggestions, except that sample was limited to only the people they knew. Now, we can poll for opinions for a larger knowledge base and help make a decision.

With speakers, as much as I enjoy music and technology there was so much for me to learn by asking around. Sometimes until you know, you have no idea what to listen for. Your average person has no idea WTF a "soundstage" is.

To use myself as example, I would normally want a speaker with deep bass. Had I never asked around I'm sure I'd end up with DefTechs (and have been happy). I bought BW because for the midrange, and the FST.