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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 400

post #11971 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

READ THIS (WRITTEN BY CHRIS,ONE OF THE AUDYSSEY FOUNDERS)
http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large

Is there a point ? My comments about audyssey not controlling what happens but its the brand that sets the crossover based on the feedback is correct. If i mis something in this blog post please tell me.

edit: *duh* i guess its my remark about setting them to large 9 out of 10 i did mean small smile.gif. But the main point of my post was to say that audyssey doesn't do anything just reports back. Also to Rod#S sorry typo form my side smile.gif

Daniel.
post #11972 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Yeah the numbers mean very little to me when it comes right down to it, it's what is heard that counts. Cosmetically the Stradivari and Elipsa look really nice as do the Amati anniversario and Aida. I like the Ultima Salon and Focal Maestro, Stella and Grande Utopia looks as well. Cosmetically for me my choice of speaker in the 20kish to 30kish range is the 800D2 (over say the Sasha, Elipsa SE and Ultima Salon) and in the 10kish to 20kish range I like the 802D2 (over say the Studio Salon, Elipsa, Sophia, Cremona M). I would love to have an opportunity to hear all of these speakers but alas that will never happen. My dealer sells Focal but doesn't have the Utopia series on hand. Having now owned my 802's for about a year and a half I would love to be able to get a comparison of the Scala and Maestro towers.

The Focal sound very good but they cost a lot more than B&W unfortunately it's the 35 Hour work week in France and the super high French taxes on labor and everything else that makes the price absurd

- Focal Diablo Utopia III Monitor Loudspeaker ($12,000/pair

- Maestro Utopias ($49,995/pair)

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/behind-the-scenes-at-focal-france

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/behind-the-scenes-at-focal-france-part-2
post #11973 of 17915
I'm not a B&W owner just yet, but I think I may be very soon.

I was leaning towards a Klipsch RF7 ii and matching speakers initially after demo'ing a set, but today I went to listen to some other stuff at a store.

I listened to the Klipsch again, B&W CM9's, Monitor Audio and Golden Ear in the same price range (don't remember their model #'s).

I had previously listened to the CM9's with matching CMC2 for center and CM1 for rears, and liked it. But I had heard the Klipsch ones and liked those too and was leaning that way, also due to a cheaper price.

But today after listening to the CM9's again, I'm going to go that route now even though it is going to cost me more in general.

I was quoted that the retail on the CM9 pair, with CMC2, and a pair of CM1 was $5250. They told me they could sell it to me as a package for $4700.

Is that a pretty reasonable price for that set, or should they have more wiggle room?

Additionally they told me if I were to get a sub (they have JL Audio and Velodyne, and I was looking at the DD12+ for $3500 retail there) that they could drop it some more for a package deal. I am not even sure though if that is a reasonable price for the sub or not, and I'm going to start doing a little bit of sub research because I've really done none.
post #11974 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

I'm not a B&W owner just yet, but I think I may be very soon.
I was leaning towards a Klipsch RF7 ii and matching speakers initially after demo'ing a set, but today I went to listen to some other stuff at a store.
I listened to the Klipsch again, B&W CM9's, Monitor Audio and Golden Ear in the same price range (don't remember their model #'s).
I had previously listened to the CM9's with matching CMC2 for center and CM1 for rears, and liked it. But I had heard the Klipsch ones and liked those too and was leaning that way, also due to a cheaper price.
But today after listening to the CM9's again, I'm going to go that route now even though it is going to cost me more in general.
I was quoted that the retail on the CM9 pair, with CMC2, and a pair of CM1 was $5250. They told me they could sell it to me as a package for $4700.
Is that a pretty reasonable price for that set, or should they have more wiggle room?
Additionally they told me if I were to get a sub (they have JL Audio and Velodyne, and I was looking at the DD12+ for $3500 retail there) that they could drop it some more for a package deal. I am not even sure though if that is a reasonable price for the sub or not, and I'm going to start doing a little bit of sub research because I've really done none.

10% off is good, maybe not great for CMs. Both Velodyne and JL make great subs so you can't go wrong but if you have room twin subs would be better. What is your music/HT split?
post #11975 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

10% off is good, maybe not great for CMs. Both Velodyne and JL make great subs so you can't go wrong but if you have room twin subs would be better. What is your music/HT split?

This is mainly going to be for HT for movies, tv, and video games.
post #11976 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

The Focal sound very good but they cost a lot more than B&W unfortunately it's the 35 Hour work week in France and the super high French taxes on labor and everything else that makes the price absurd
- Focal Diablo Utopia III Monitor Loudspeaker ($12,000/pair
- Maestro Utopias ($49,995/pair)
http://www.whathifi.com/blog/behind-the-scenes-at-focal-france
http://www.whathifi.com/blog/behind-the-scenes-at-focal-france-part-2

Agreed, they are pricey things for sure with the small stand mount Diablo being darn near the price of the 802D2 and Scala being quite a bit more than the 800D2, it's basically in-line with the Wilson Sasha and Sonus Amati Anniversario give or take just a few thousand. With the Maestro at basically 50k that's why I would really like an opportunity to hear it, the Wilson Alexia and Sonus Stradivari because those are both just shy of 50k as well. I can't afford any of them but all these speakers are say one and two leaps price wise over the 800D2 and it would be cool to see what if anything the 800D2 gives up to them.
post #11977 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

10% off is good, maybe not great for CMs. Both Velodyne and JL make great subs so you can't go wrong but if you have room twin subs would be better. What is your music/HT split?

20% off MSRP is the minimum or me.

Most dealers get 30-40% off MSRP depending on the speaker line.

Edit: I should have said to "aim" for 10-20% off MSRP. B&W does retain great resale value. B&W dealers are not allowed to discount. biggrin.gif

When I said "most dealers", I should have said "most other dealers".

Focal is also extremely strict. I've yet to see an authorized dealer even give a 10% discount on any Focal. Dynaudio is another strict one.

My local KEF dealer wouldn't even give me a 10% discount. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 11/13/12 at 6:33am
post #11978 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

I'm not a B&W owner just yet, but I think I may be very soon.
I was leaning towards a Klipsch RF7 ii and matching speakers initially after demo'ing a set, but today I went to listen to some other stuff at a store.
I listened to the Klipsch again, B&W CM9's, Monitor Audio and Golden Ear in the same price range (don't remember their model #'s).
I had previously listened to the CM9's with matching CMC2 for center and CM1 for rears, and liked it. But I had heard the Klipsch ones and liked those too and was leaning that way, also due to a cheaper price.
But today after listening to the CM9's again, I'm going to go that route now even though it is going to cost me more in general.
I was quoted that the retail on the CM9 pair, with CMC2, and a pair of CM1 was $5250. They told me they could sell it to me as a package for $4700.
Is that a pretty reasonable price for that set, or should they have more wiggle room?
Additionally they told me if I were to get a sub (they have JL Audio and Velodyne, and I was looking at the DD12+ for $3500 retail there) that they could drop it some more for a package deal. I am not even sure though if that is a reasonable price for the sub or not, and I'm going to start doing a little bit of sub research because I've really done none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

This is mainly going to be for HT for movies, tv, and video games.
I greatly prefer the CM9 to the RF7, but movies and video games aren't as demanding since you aren't as focused on the audio. If you can be content with the Klipsch, I'd just stick with those.
post #11979 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs View Post

I greatly prefer the CM9 to the RF7, but movies and video games aren't as demanding since you aren't as focused on the audio. If you can be content with the Klipsch, I'd just stick with those.
wink.gif

Well after hearing the Klipsch again today for a 5 minute straight clip, I am thinking the high pitch of the horns may bother me after a long 2 hour movie or so.

Are you saying though that you only prefer the CM9's to the RF7's for music and would prefer the RF7's for movies/games?

I was a little confused by that comment, because I am definitely focused on getting great audio out of my movies and games as well.
post #11980 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

20% off MSRP is the minimum or me.
Most dealers get 30-40% off MSRP depending on the speaker line.

Are there online shops that sell B&W? I've really only seen them in 2 local shops so far.

I will see if they have more wiggle room though, thanks for at least letting me know that 20% should definitely be doable!
post #11981 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

wink.gif
Well after hearing the Klipsch again today for a 5 minute straight clip, I am thinking the high pitch of the horns may bother me after a long 2 hour movie or so.
Are you saying though that you only prefer the CM9's to the RF7's for music and would prefer the RF7's for movies/games?
I was a little confused by that comment, because I am definitely focused on getting great audio out of my movies and games as well.
I prefer the CM9 for everything over the RF7, but my expectations are lowered with movies compared to music. I can be very happy watching Fight Club with sound bar. smile.gif
post #11982 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

This is mainly going to be for HT for movies, tv, and video games.

B&W IMO is great for music but I feel if HT is a big focus you may want to look at Kef (which does both music and HT very well, IMO of course) or even speakers that focus on HT, high efficiency of say 95 dB or so. If you can get a good deal on the CM9s with the CMC2 you will certainly have a fantastic system but there are other options that may give you better dynamics.
post #11983 of 17915
I'm thinking about adding a couple of customized wooden bases for my front 683s to stabilize them (didn't get any plinth when I bought the pair), didn't decide on the dimensions yet but I was thinking the wooden base would be around an inch thick and extend 5 inches on each side of the speaker, what I'm wondering is will this be a bad idea acoustically or it won't have a significant effect?

If you're wondering why I want to stabilize the speakers, it's because we have a very jumpy cat that could easily smash my floor standing 683 into my plasma with the setup I'm planning to do this time around at a new apartment.


ps: If anyone has the original 683 plinth bases lying around and willing to sell them, please let me know your price shipped to NY11413.
Edited by metallicaband - 11/11/12 at 3:05am
post #11984 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Are there online shops that sell B&W? I've really only seen them in 2 local shops so far.
I will see if they have more wiggle room though, thanks for at least letting me know that 20% should definitely be doable!

B&W doesn't allow authorized dealers to sell online.
post #11985 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

B&W doesn't allow authorized dealers to sell online.

Both Bowers & Wilkins and Rotel electronics aren't sold by authorized dealers online. Anyone selling these on line may not be an authorized dealer-no warranty. Buyer Beware.
Edited by SugarmillMan - 11/11/12 at 6:43am
post #11986 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

B&W IMO is great for music but I feel if HT is a big focus you may want to look at Kef (which does both music and HT very well, IMO of course) or even speakers that focus on HT, high efficiency of say 95 dB or so. If you can get a good deal on the CM9s with the CMC2 you will certainly have a fantastic system but there are other options that may give you better dynamics.

Aren't the CM9's 90db efficient? Besides your not taking in account room size. My current speakers, Def Tech, are only 87db. But my room is 1500cu ft. so they get really loud easily.
post #11987 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Aren't the CM9's 90db efficient? Besides your not taking in account room size. My current speakers, Def Tech, are only 87db. But my room is 1500cu ft. so they get really loud easily.

Some feel very high efficiency speakers like the Triple 8HT JTRs which are 98 dB are better for HT than the traditional music speaker. A friend who has had Salon2s prefers JBL for HT.
post #11988 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

20% off MSRP is the minimum or me.
Most dealers get 30-40% off MSRP depending on the speaker line.

AcuD.... I am thinking that you don't own any B&W's or have much experience with purchasing them. B&W probably clamps down hardest on retailers straying too far from MSRP than any other speaker vendor in the market place. I believe some really crazy esoteric stuff holds the line even harder but certainly no other main stream producing manufacturer controls retail as firmly as B&W. This goes to online selling above all else (note I did not lump you in with the person who is looking for an on-line retailer. You can get 20% on very rare occasion from a retailer but this would usually mean a model change out or a floor model that has been around a long while.

So, if you are looking for Klipsch or Def Techs at 20 to 40% off full MSRP that is probably locatable. B&W's pretty much never, ever, ever. Now the cool thing about B&W's is that they hold their value far better than just about anything out there. The 800 line is quite extraordinary here. My 805N's sell from around 60 to 70% of their original retail price 13 years later. The little SCM1's are even in higher demand and sell for as much as 75% of full retail 10 years later. I purchased my 803S's on close out and did indeed get a 25% discount Funny thing is 3 years later, this is what they are going for used at many sites. I suppose that if you get the cheapest series of B&W's or many of the in wall systems, you will see used speaking going below 50% of retail. B&W has been described as the Rolex of speakers. Rolex started off with some pretty reasonable watch prices and over decades raised the price on all lines. This has helped establish a used market that has done well. Certainly, this is the path B&W has taken with the Nautilus line as well.

OK, my point here is your 20% rule is pretty silly for many of B&W's speakers. This is because they do go all rabid pitbull on deeper discounts and online sales. If however, you go buy some Polks at anything less than a 35% discount, you are burning dollars.

So...... Please provide better advice to those looking to buy or at least do some homework on the used market. 10% is often the best many can get on B&W's. There may be occasionall retailer deals better and they usually involve a system type purchase.
post #11989 of 17915
I know ADTG got an incredible deal on 802Ds, if I had the room I'd love to have auditioned them when choosing my latest system. Agree it is tough to get a discount on B&W but I have and others have, the dealer just does not like it advertised to keep heat off from B&W.

Edit: Two years ago I could have gotten a very good deal on CM9s with the CMC2, less money than the XQ40s and XQ50c so I know they can be found. Don't disagree that B&W controls things tightly, just that 10% would be minimum and 20% very good.
Edited by jima4a - 11/11/12 at 1:53pm
post #11990 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

20% off MSRP is the minimum or me. Most dealers get 30-40% off MSRP depending on the speaker line.

More like 40 to 70 point off depending on the brand:eek:

Whith that said I I had not invested already in 800Diamonds here is what I would have done

11 B&W 805Diamonds

and

2 Gothams http://www.jlaudio.com/g213-gloss-home-audio-gotham-powered-subwoofers-96237
post #11991 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

I'm thinking about adding a couple of customized wooden bases for my front 683s to stabilize them (didn't get any plinth when I bought the pair), didn't decide on the dimensions yet but I was thinking the wooden base would be around an inch thick and extend 5 inches on each side of the speaker, what I'm wondering is will this be a bad idea acoustically or it won't have a significant effect?

If you're wondering why I want to stabilize the speakers, it's because we have a very jumpy cat that could easily smash my floor standing 683 into my plasma with the setup I'm planning to do this time around at a new apartment.


ps: If anyone has the original 683 plinth bases lying around and willing to sell them, please let me know your price shipped to NY11413.

Try contact B&W support service directly. They may be able to sell you plinths.
post #11992 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

AcuD.... I am thinking that you don't own any B&W's or have much experience with purchasing them. B&W probably clamps down hardest on retailers straying too far from MSRP than any other speaker vendor in the market place. I believe some really crazy esoteric stuff holds the line even harder but certainly no other main stream producing manufacturer controls retail as firmly as B&W. This goes to online selling above all else (note I did not lump you in with the person who is looking for an on-line retailer. You can get 20% on very rare occasion from a retailer but this would usually mean a model change out or a floor model that has been around a long while.
So, if you are looking for Klipsch or Def Techs at 20 to 40% off full MSRP that is probably locatable. B&W's pretty much never, ever, ever. Now the cool thing about B&W's is that they hold their value far better than just about anything out there. The 800 line is quite extraordinary here. My 805N's sell from around 60 to 70% of their original retail price 13 years later. The little SCM1's are even in higher demand and sell for as much as 75% of full retail 10 years later. I purchased my 803S's on close out and did indeed get a 25% discount Funny thing is 3 years later, this is what they are going for used at many sites. I suppose that if you get the cheapest series of B&W's or many of the in wall systems, you will see used speaking going below 50% of retail. B&W has been described as the Rolex of speakers. Rolex started off with some pretty reasonable watch prices and over decades raised the price on all lines. This has helped establish a used market that has done well. Certainly, this is the path B&W has taken with the Nautilus line as well.
OK, my point here is your 20% rule is pretty silly for many of B&W's speakers. This is because they do go all rabid pitbull on deeper discounts and online sales. If however, you go buy some Polks at anything less than a 35% discount, you are burning dollars.
So...... Please provide better advice to those looking to buy or at least do some homework on the used market. 10% is often the best many can get on B&W's. There may be occasionall retailer deals better and they usually involve a system type purchase.

Thanks for the long winded post.

I may see if I can talk them down to $4500 for the set, which is like 15% off MSRP instead of 10% off.

I am curious if anyone here has the CM9's with a CMC2 for their HT setup, and would like to hear opinions on how it sounds for movies!
post #11993 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I know ADTG got an incredible deal on 802Ds, if I had the room I'd love to have auditioned them when choosing my latest system. Agree it is tough to get a discount on B&W but I have and others have, the dealer just does not like it advertised to keep heat off from B&W.
Edit: Two years ago I could have gotten a very good deal on CM9s with the CMC2, less money than the XQ40s and XQ50c so I know they can be found. Don't disagree that B&W controls things tightly, just that 10% would be minimum and 20% very good.

Yep, 100% agree, 20% for B&W's is hard but not impossible to do. It means a model change out, retailer financial abyss situation (don't laugh, there have been quite a number of these occurences since 2009), or some weird albeit cool special circumstance. Please note, I am not in the bus, nor do I have a brother who works for Bowers & Wilkins. I am just stating what most B&W owners know. Resale is very, very good; initial purchase price is often high as well - relative to black box online swill. (Oh I own black box online swill as well) B&Ws for main listening viewing, cheap stuff for Muzak and a system at work.
post #11994 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

AcuD.... I am thinking that you don't own any B&W's or have much experience with purchasing them. B&W probably clamps down hardest on retailers straying too far from MSRP than any other speaker vendor in the market place. I believe some really crazy esoteric stuff holds the line even harder but certainly no other main stream producing manufacturer controls retail as firmly as B&W. This goes to online selling above all else (note I did not lump you in with the person who is looking for an on-line retailer. You can get 20% on very rare occasion from a retailer but this would usually mean a model change out or a floor model that has been around a long while.
So, if you are looking for Klipsch or Def Techs at 20 to 40% off full MSRP that is probably locatable. B&W's pretty much never, ever, ever. Now the cool thing about B&W's is that they hold their value far better than just about anything out there. The 800 line is quite extraordinary here. My 805N's sell from around 60 to 70% of their original retail price 13 years later. The little SCM1's are even in higher demand and sell for as much as 75% of full retail 10 years later. I purchased my 803S's on close out and did indeed get a 25% discount Funny thing is 3 years later, this is what they are going for used at many sites. I suppose that if you get the cheapest series of B&W's or many of the in wall systems, you will see used speaking going below 50% of retail. B&W has been described as the Rolex of speakers. Rolex started off with some pretty reasonable watch prices and over decades raised the price on all lines. This has helped establish a used market that has done well. Certainly, this is the path B&W has taken with the Nautilus line as well.
OK, my point here is your 20% rule is pretty silly for many of B&W's speakers. This is because they do go all rabid pitbull on deeper discounts and online sales. If however, you go buy some Polks at anything less than a 35% discount, you are burning dollars.
So...... Please provide better advice to those looking to buy or at least do some homework on the used market. 10% is often the best many can get on B&W's. There may be occasionall retailer deals better and they usually involve a system type purchase.

What's your problem?

Jealous because you didn't get the 20% off?

I'm thinking you're the one who doesn't really own any B&W.

I have a pair of brand new 802D2 gloss black. I also have 8 other pairs of speakers in my house. I've also bought Def Tech, NHT, RBH, and Pioneer in the past. Yes, I do have some experience buying a few speakers.

So take your problem somewhere else. I'm just telling the truth. Maybe help someone in the process. If people can't get 20% off, then at least 15% off helps.
post #11995 of 17915
AcuDef....
I'm guessing reading or viewing is a challenge to you. What I own is in my info. If you also look at my posts you can get verification via photo. Getting back to reading, I said that indeed, I did get a below 20% price on my 803S's. However, blanket "You should get 20% off because I said so bull#&&^ is exactly that; sloppy amatuer advice. 10 to 20% off is good for better B&W lines. Your advice.... not so good. NHT, Pioneer, Def Tech, RHT - all available on-line at deep discounts. Def Tech stuff can be quite nice, the rest compares favorably with Dayton Audio kits with less on-line value. biggrin.gif. All not worth much on re-sale. Good for you on going big time for the B&Ws but comparing these two very different sales channels is lame.

Also, I did not go off here you did, , be respectful....

If we must compare speakers, I guess I have about 50 speakers hooked up and running.... Gee does that make me an expert as a bunch of them are just in ceiling Niles Muzak stuff. Know what you speak, know thyself. Be helpful as well.
post #11996 of 17915
I got 15% off my 805d and HTM4 and was very happy with that. I think I can get the same discount on the Denon 4520 AVR so I'm tempted to upgrade my 4310.
post #11997 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Try contact B&W support service directly. They may be able to sell you plinths.

I live internationally (in Bahrain) and we only have 1 B&W dealer over here (the NY address I mentioned earlier is provided to me via 3rd party courier), when I asked them about the plinth bases they told me that the speakers don't come with plinths.

Can any 683 owners please confirm whether you got the plinth bases or not when you bought your speakers?
post #11998 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Can any 683 owners please confirm whether you got the plinth bases or not when you bought your speakers?

Included.
post #11999 of 17915
Yep. Mine came with them as well.
post #12000 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Try contact B&W support service directly. They may be able to sell you plinths.

I live internationally (in Bahrain) and we only have 1 B&W dealer over here (the NY address I mentioned earlier is provided to me via 3rd party courier), when I asked them about the plinth bases they told me that the speakers don't come with plinths.

Can any 683 owners please confirm whether you got the plinth bases or not when you bought your speakers?

They do come with the speakers,packed in the box with the 683. You can buy them here; http://www.bwgroupsupport.com/parts/price-avail but they're around $80 each! Contact your dealer and if that doesn't help, contact B&W and tell them about the problem .mad.gif
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