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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 402

post #12031 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

The CM9/CMC2 combination do a wonderful job with movies. I was expecting them to lack a bit for movies vs. the Klipsch setup they replaced, but I haven't found that to be the case. The CM setup handles the subtle nuances of soundtracks and dialogue excellently. One of our first movies we watched on this setup was the Bourne Identity and I was struck how some of the soundtrack just seemed to float in the around the room. A very subtle effect, but very pleasing. The wind and ambiance in the countryside as Bourne stalks the other agent near the end also stood out. In preparation for Skyfall we sat down and watched both of the Craig Bonds. In the local theater I was struck with just how flat it sounded compared to our home setup. Right now we're watching the LotR in preparation for the Hobbit and again I am appreciating how well this setup does with the score and how it brings out nuances in the sound I hadn't noticed before. As far as explosions and action go, I haven't found them lacking in that department either. I think they are even with the Klipschs here, but that's not a put down since the Klipschs excelled in this area.
I really wanted to like the CM1's since I would eventually like to move to a 7.1 setup and they are cheaper way to go. But after listening to them level matched with the CM5's they just don't cut it. Listening to Blu Ray concerts and multichannel music the CM5's created a seamless soundstage. The CM1's never did no matter how much tweaking I gave them. They sounded constrained and flat compared with the rest of the setup. For movie listening I suspect it may not make as much of a difference depending on how critical you are. Again, to me, they just didn't cut it. A good example was Red Sky at Night from David Gilmour's Remember That Night Blu Ray. The opening sax with the CM5's just floated in the room beautifully, like he was playing right there. The CM1's stuck out and the soundstage sounded artificial. Though I didn't audition them with this sort of material, I would suspect movies with a bold classical score (like LotR) would probably call attention to their deficiencies as well. Though since you're engaged with the film you may not notice as much.

Awesome man thank you for your reply. That makes me feel better about the choice I am most likely making.

I am curious too as to what Klipsch speakers you were comparing them to, because the RF7's with RC64 (series II) were one of my other leading choices, but I heard the other setup again and think I liked it more.

As far as the CM1 vs the CM5, if I'm already spending at least $4500 on speakers, based on what I've heard, even though I'll be primarily using this for movies/games, I think the extra $300 or $400 will be worth it in the long run.
post #12032 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Another request from 683 owners, can you please tell me the size of the plinth Width X Length in centimeters if possible to be more accurate. Sorry for bothering you guys with so many questions I just couldn't find this info via search, all dimensions I got was related to the speaker not plinth.

Anyone?
post #12033 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Awesome man thank you for your reply. That makes me feel better about the choice I am most likely making.
I am curious too as to what Klipsch speakers you were comparing them to, because the RF7's with RC64 (series II) were one of my other leading choices, but I heard the other setup again and think I liked it more.
As far as the CM1 vs the CM5, if I'm already spending at least $4500 on speakers, based on what I've heard, even though I'll be primarily using this for movies/games, I think the extra $300 or $400 will be worth it in the long run.

The Klipsch speakers I had were mid-late 90's Epic and Legend series speakers. I wasn't able to audition the RF7II's, but the Klipsh speakers I did seemed to be more thin and harsh than what I was used to. To be fair the RF7's should be in a different league due to the price jump from what I was able to audition.
post #12034 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

The Klipsch speakers I had were mid-late 90's Epic and Legend series speakers. I wasn't able to audition the RF7II's, but the Klipsh speakers I did seemed to be more thin and harsh than what I was used to. To be fair the RF7's should be in a different league due to the price jump from what I was able to audition.

Well the RF7's are pretty much in the same range as the CM9's, if not less because many places can get away with selling them at a reduced cost over the MSRP than B&W resellers.

They both retail for $3k/pair though.
post #12035 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Awesome man thank you for your reply. That makes me feel better about the choice I am most likely making.
I am curious too as to what Klipsch speakers you were comparing them to, because the RF7's with RC64 (series II) were one of my other leading choices, but I heard the other setup again and think I liked it more.
As far as the CM1 vs the CM5, if I'm already spending at least $4500 on speakers, based on what I've heard, even though I'll be primarily using this for movies/games, I think the extra $300 or $400 will be worth it in the long run.

As a NY Football Giants Fan it's hard to offer any advice to a Redskins, Cowboys or Eagles Fan. Nevertheless, I have the CM9/CMC2 front stage and was laboring over the CM1 vs CM5 for surrounds. After considering the price of bookshelf speakers plus the stands, for the same height and less money I got a pair of 2 year old CM7s in like new condition on Audiogon for the surrounds. If your focus is movies & sports, add a pair of good subs, and you truly feel right in the middle of the action. Life was very good when I watched the Avengers in 3D. cool.gif
post #12036 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach KG View Post

As a NY Football Giants Fan it's hard to offer any advice to a Redskins, Cowboys or Eagles Fan. Nevertheless, I have the CM9/CMC2 front stage and was laboring over the CM1 vs CM5 for surrounds. After considering the price of bookshelf speakers plus the stands, for the same height and less money I got a pair of 2 year old CM7s in like new condition on Audiogon for the surrounds. If your focus is movies & sports, add a pair of good subs, and you truly feel right in the middle of the action. Life was very good when I watched the Avengers in 3D. cool.gif

Hah I appreciate that you reached out to me with your opinion. But to be honest I'm a realist and know on Sunday we're playing for the battle of the worst in the NFCE. Which sucks for me and I can never hope that the Giants do well, but let's be real the Giants are on another level than the Skins.

Skins fan for life but I know they are out of it this year.

We always got 2013!
post #12037 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankTR View Post

I just installed a set of 683 and what are the foam plugs used for?

See page 3 of the 683 owners manual. Reference the Fine Tuning section.
post #12038 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Hah I appreciate that you reached out to me with your opinion. But to be honest I'm a realist and know on Sunday we're playing for the battle of the worst in the NFCE. Which sucks for me and I can never hope that the Giants do well, but let's be real the Giants are on another level than the Skins.
Skins fan for life but I know they are out of it this year.
We always got 2013!

Just a rebuilding year with a new rookie Quarterback RG3. Nothing to be ashamed of here.

Are you getting the CM5s?
post #12039 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarmillMan View Post

Just a rebuilding year with a new rookie Quarterback RG3. Nothing to be ashamed of here.
Are you getting the CM5s?

The Skins have been "rebuilding" for over a decade frown.gif

I think I'm going with the CM5's. I was going to pick them up today but I kind of want to get some painting done instead. But I know if I go out next week the traffic is going to be awful frown.gif
post #12040 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

The Skins have been "rebuilding" for over a decade frown.gif
I think I'm going with the CM5's. I was going to pick them up today but I kind of want to get some painting done instead. But I know if I go out next week the traffic is going to be awful frown.gif

Are you mounting them on speaker stands or trying (as some are able to do) hang them on a wall?
post #12041 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarmillMan View Post

Are you mounting them on speaker stands or trying (as some are able to do) hang them on a wall?

I'm going to build a small shelf on the wall for the right one, and then I have to figure out how to hang the left one since there is going to be no wall near it. I think I may make something that hangs from the ceiling and acts as a shelf kind of in open space.

I don't really want to use stands, but if I end up having to I won't mind.
post #12042 of 17813
Can someone take a picture of the rim or the edge of the cm9 kevlar cone. on mine it looks funny. let me just simplify this, i m gonna say the kevlar weave is like threads and they are weave to form sheets. at the end or the edge, some threads would be on top and some bottom, crisscrossing.


the ones on top for my speakers (not all threads, just some) seems to be above the plane of the rest of the weave.
post #12043 of 17813
I am running 803 Diamonds up front with an HTM2. Does anyone have any suggestions on amplifiers. I don't want to spend more than $3000 so will likely try and find some used amps. I currently have a Rotel 1080 for the fronts. I tried a $6000 Bryston 6BSST2 and it was really great. 300w x 3. I just did not hear enough improvement to spend that kind of money. Any suggestions?
post #12044 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

I am running 803 Diamonds up front with an HTM2. Does anyone have any suggestions on amplifiers. I don't want to spend more than $3000 so will likely try and find some used amps. I currently have a Rotel 1080 for the fronts. I tried a $6000 Bryston 6BSST2 and it was really great. 300w x 3. I just did not hear enough improvement to spend that kind of money. Any suggestions?
Emotiva seems to be one of the best when it comes to giving you the best bang for you buck. There are many arguments out there about how an amp's job is to just play the source louder without distortion and NOT change how it sounds, I for one think that makes sense so I'll probably go with Emotiva or similar brand instead of paying a premium for something that I can't pick out in a blind test.
post #12045 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

I am running 803 Diamonds up front with an HTM2. Does anyone have any suggestions on amplifiers. I don't want to spend more than $3000 so will likely try and find some used amps. I currently have a Rotel 1080 for the fronts. I tried a $6000 Bryston 6BSST2 and it was really great. 300w x 3. I just did not hear enough improvement to spend that kind of money. Any suggestions?

Ok, how about half the amount of the Bryston? Parasound Halo A31 at $3000. 3 X 250 wpc Class A/AB. If you liked the Bryston but without the high price tag, this is what I would suggest. Good luck.
post #12046 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Ok, how about half the amount of the Bryston? Parasound Halo A31 at $3000. 3 X 250 wpc Class A/AB. If you liked the Bryston but without the high price tag, this is what I would suggest. Good luck.

+1 on the A31!
post #12047 of 17813
Also take a look at the Anthem power amps, good value for the money. The Statement line is expensive so just look at the regular line.
post #12048 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

I am running 803 Diamonds up front with an HTM2. Does anyone have any suggestions on amplifiers. I don't want to spend more than $3000 so will likely try and find some used amps. I currently have a Rotel 1080 for the fronts. I tried a $6000 Bryston 6BSST2 and it was really great. 300w x 3. I just did not hear enough improvement to spend that kind of money. Any suggestions?

I would get the AT3005 (300wpc x5) for $3K.

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3005-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

Or AT2007 (200wpc x7) for $2400.

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at2007-seven-channel-x-200-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

Fully balanced amps, fuse-less (automatic breakers). ATI make amps for the likes of Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, B&K, and most amp companies in the USA. Their specs are awesome - SNR -120dB, Crosstalk -100dB 20Hz-20kHz, THD 0.05% rated RMS 20-20kHz.
post #12049 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I would get the AT3005 (300wpc x5) for $3K.
http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3005-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html
Or AT2007 (200wpc x7) for $2400.
http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at2007-seven-channel-x-200-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html
Fully balanced amps, fuse-less (automatic breakers). ATI make amps for the likes of Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, B&K, and most amp companies in the USA. Their specs are awesome - SNR -120dB, Crosstalk -100dB 20Hz-20kHz, THD 0.05% rated RMS 20-20kHz.

Are you using the AT3005 to drive your 802's? I thought that I could get the 3005 for less than that. Much better than the $8000 full retail price on the Bryston that I auditioned. The problem with buying the AT3005 is that I will have to buy it without auditioning it.
post #12050 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Ok, how about half the amount of the Bryston? Parasound Halo A31 at $3000. 3 X 250 wpc Class A/AB. If you liked the Bryston but without the high price tag, this is what I would suggest. Good luck.


I am going to try and audition the Halo A31 this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.
post #12051 of 17813
I would think a A31 combined with a AT2004 (7.x) or AT2006 (9.x) would make a truly outstanding system. Of course you could use an AT3003 for the front three and/or an AVR for the surrounds. I think it is worth dividing up the amp duties.
Edited by jima4a - 11/21/12 at 9:51pm
post #12052 of 17813
Would a Parasound or Emotiva make my new 804D sound bright?

I am a little concerned about the combination... I already have a XPA - 3, but I am considering if it's worthwhile to spring for a Mcintosh MC 205 or MC 8207... thanks.

MA using a Denon 4520 as a processor.
post #12053 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Would a Parasound or Emotiva make my new 804D sound bright?
I am a little concerned about the combination... I already have a XPA - 3, but I am considering if it's worthwhile to spring for a Mcintosh MC 205 or MC 8207... thanks.
MA using a Denon 4520 as a processor.

AFAIK the XPA series have some great amps, if it was me I'd just spend the extra cash on acoustic treatments which have a huge effect on the sound you hear.
post #12054 of 17813
My 2 cents on Amps. Heck, who wouldn't want a flagship McIntosh Amp? A giant Monoblock Mark Levinson is totally amp geek heaven. A beautiful Classe amp is well, kind of classy.

Really, IMHO flagship amps are all about "the bling" If you have a good EQ system, such as Audyssey XT32 and great speakers coupled with good room treatment or simply a good room design, amps are about the least important part of the system (with the exception of esoteric cables and wood blocks buddhist blessed to improve the aura of your room). Having said that, a lot of people seem to feel/believe/strongly/discern that far more expensive amplifiers sound far better. I have all XPA amps and have owned many brands of amplifiers and I can say the XPA's don't sound "bright" in my room with my gear. They really just dissapear and have high reserve power. They make my B&W's sound better but mainly in a response/transient way. Music and movies are simply reproduced fairly effortlessly. I believe all the just recently mentioned amps probably do about the same job. They are all high current amplifiers and are capable of handling difficult to drive speakers. I don't even think that most B&W speakers are that tough to drive but they do subjectively sound better with my high current amps than the internal amplifier of my Denon 4311.

So, if you want to buy a flagship amp, by all means do. I would love to splurge on them someday. However, will they sound worlds better than my XPA-1s? I don't think so. Just my opinion. I still look at gear on the auction sites for that screaming deal on a converstion piece amplifier. Hey, they are purty to look at and McIntosh stuff has those retro needles to admire.
post #12055 of 17813
Has anybody compared XPA-1s to XPA-2 and to XPA-3 with speakers in 802D or 800D class with a good preamp (not AVR)? I am not sure you can lump all three as the same sonically. I have tried and returned UPA-1s as I preferred the 1008s amps for 2 channel. I own a PA5-200 which is sonically a XPA-5 but have not tried it for 2 channel. The XPR line looks very intriguing.

I am also not a fan of XT32 for music, good for movies and TV but just doesn't agree with me for music.
post #12056 of 17813
Would 125W be enough power for the 803Diamonds as I found a good deal on a Cary Audio 7.125?
post #12057 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

Would 125W be enough power for the 803Diamonds as I found a good deal on a Cary Audio 7.125?

Depending on how loud you like to listen and how big your listening area is, it could be enough.

I was driving N804 with 45wpc Linn Majik amps and they sounded great. the 803D2 are a lot more efficient.
post #12058 of 17813
mpauline

Get Classé if you can find a good deal
post #12059 of 17813
Each skewl of amplifier belief is well represented in this thread...
"skewl amp same" - Amps not clipping, able to drive the load(ohms) of the speakers they are connected to, of reasonable quality, not designed to intentionally colour the sound, are sonically equivalent.
"skewl amp diff" - Those that believe the above sentence is incorrect.

One of these groups has backed up their position with widely accepted objective testing practices used across most industries. The other group talks allot and offers zero objective data that I am able to find, and I've looked far and wide. If objective data exists, please point me to it.

Some benefits to the higher priced amps
a) Better warranty sometimes
b) Bling (aesthetics or name or price bragging rights)
c) Personal preference about manufacture/distributor place/practices/people for variety of reasons
d) Members of "skewl amps diff" do get to enjoy their amp more because they believe it sounds better, I enjoy my lower priced amp more for a related reason.
e) Family heirlooms (That Mcintosh is really going to last, not that it's value catches up over that time)
f) There are other non-sonic reasons

Truly balanced systems offer a slight, real sonic gain, but that takes much more than just a balanced amp and the law of diminishing returns is in full effect if you are putting that together. Suggest you have a treated room and optimal measured speaker placement first and your great grandkids are well provided for.

I think the ATI seams of reasonable value when compared to the higher priced amps, but not when you look at the other offerings from Outlaw, Emotiva, Pro World like crown, and I'm sure I'm missing some. I personally don't throw them or parasound a bone for only charging 50%-100% more than what you can get the equivalent or better sonic quality for just because they aren't charging 6, 10, 20, or more times the cost.

B&W are not high efficiency speakers so you can really put some watts into them to get higher volume levels. If you are trying to get to reference with them you are going to need watts to get there cleanly (amp not distorting). You can determine how many watts is needed for your desired volume level, speaker, and room/distance. My external amp improvement occurs when close to reference, I do that once in a blue moon.

Happy Turkey Day!!!
post #12060 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpauline View Post

I am running 803 Diamonds up front with an HTM2. Does anyone have any suggestions on amplifiers. I don't want to spend more than $3000 so will likely try and find some used amps. I currently have a Rotel 1080 for the fronts. I tried a $6000 Bryston 6BSST2 and it was really great. 300w x 3. I just did not hear enough improvement to spend that kind of money. Any suggestions?

I am using the Bryston 6BSST2 with 802D2 and HTM2D2.
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