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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 404

post #12091 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I wish i could find a set of older N802 and try them as fronts .. let alone have 800's for fronts and 802 for sides. but alas Florida is not the place to be to find 802's
I am in Florida and I have N801's.

They are too heavy to port around for fun; but if you are in the market to buy... smile.gif
post #12092 of 17906
Thanks, but i was looking more for the 802, not so much the 801.
post #12093 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Stands for heigth, wow, are they custom made stands? The tallest stand I've ever come across that could hold a speaker the size and weight of the 805 with any amount of stability would more or less put the 805 at the same height as the 803 probably so a far cry from the height needed for a dedicated height speaker. I would love to ultimately move towards an 11.1 setup but what always concerns me are the widths. With 802's currently as mains which may be relegated to surrounds next Spring if I get 800's I would be concerned that anything other than a 800/802 would show itself in the mix and not blend properly. I suppose having the 802's as surrounds, they could easily be moved up to perform width duty. I would love to be able to experiment which set of speakers becomes the most important, side surrounds, rear surrounds, widths or heigths. With widths being up front and at ear level my gut says they could be most important to what we hear then perhaps followed by the side surrounds. For the heights and rear surrounds it might be a toss up and come down to personal preference as to what type of enveloping sound a person prefers, be that from above or behind.

I'm not using anything permanent. My current stands are plastic storage boxes on top of a table.

I've experimented with several locations for height. To experiment, you can use shelving, book cases, audio racks, a ladder, anything to get the height speaker in an approximate location. Once you find your favorite location, then you can decide on what to do permanently.

I found a nice location that places the height speakers just inside and just above the wides.
post #12094 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Right but the amp has to be comfortable with the impedance dips to ~ohms at 15 and 45 ohms.

I agree. A high quality low distortion amp that can handle the impedance dips is nice.

I just think its funny how a lot of people think that the 800D2 somehow requires 300 watts into 8 ohm/ 500 watts into 4 ohm or more when it has a measured sensitivity of 90.5dB/2.83V/m.

I'm sure there are some cheap amps that won't be comfortable with the impedance dips.

But are there any amps that Stereophile has measured that could not handle the impedance dips?

You reviewed the "cheap" Emotiva XPA-5 amp. Was it able to handle those impedance dips?
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 11/26/12 at 5:54am
post #12095 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Sweet.... we are on the subject of cars.... love it as i know a hell of a lot more about cars then all of the tech specs on amps and the few extra frequency response from the speaker

Bill

Really? And you don't know how to spell Aston Martin ?rolleyes.gif And you think it handles poorly?eek.gif I'm sure you have a lot of experience driving the current 15 different models. No reply needed.cool.gif
Edited by sofast1 - 11/26/12 at 6:55am
post #12096 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

But are there any amps that Stereophile has measured that could not handle the impedance dips?
You reviewed the "cheap" Emotiva XPA-5 amp. Was it able to handle those impedance dips?

1.  I do not know the answer but I am sure there are.  Of course, most of those would not even be considered a match. 

2.  I did not try the XPA-5 in my main NYC system, only in CT.  It was simply too heavy and bulky for me to move from one to the other. 

post #12097 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I agree. A high quality low distortion amp that can handle the impedance dips is nice.
I just think its funny how a lot of people think that the 800D2 somehow requires 300 watts into 8 ohm/ 500 watts into 4 ohm or more when it has a measured sensitivity of 90.5dB/2.83V/m.
I'm sure there are some cheap amps that won't be comfortable with the impedance dips.
But are there any amps that Stereophile has measured that could not handle the impedance dips?
You reviewed the "cheap" Emotiva XPA-5 amp. Was it able to handle those impedance dips?

Aren't some of your high end ATI amps pushing out more than 300 watts a channel?
post #12098 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Really? And you don't know how to spell Aston Martin ?rolleyes.gif And you think it handles poorly?eek.gif I'm sure you have a lot of experience driving the current 15 different models. No reply needed.cool.gif

i cannot help the automatic spell correct that my phone uses. but i do not believe a spelling error validated your comments... do the research on comparable cars and you will find what i am saying...

have a great day!
post #12099 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarmillMan View Post

Aren't some of your high end ATI amps pushing out more than 300 watts a channel?

That is correct. tongue.gif

But I was just saying the B&W do not need all that power.

Even on my Denon 3312 alone (no ext amp), the 802D2 played extremely loud. They are the loudest speakers I own even when powered with only the Denon 3312.

But since I already have the AT3005, naturally I use it for my speakers. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #12100 of 17906
HI everyone, I am looking a pair of surround speaker that goes with my 804. Someone here suggest 805 but I like to put on a wall. I am thinking 3 sets

1. B&W Bowers and Wilkins DS6 THX
2. SCM
3 . IN wall 800 series.

Please help me choose which one is best fit as in sound quality and value. Thanks.
post #12101 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvinhj240 View Post

HI everyone, I am looking a pair of surround speaker that goes with my 804. Someone here suggest 805 but I like to put on a wall. I am thinking 3 sets
1. B&W Bowers and Wilkins DS6 THX
2. SCM
3 . IN wall 800 series.
Please help me choose which one is best fit as in sound quality and value. Thanks.

I am guessing you mean the SCMS or SCM1. If that is the case, my vote is for you finding one of those; preferably the SCMS as the tweeter placement is better for surround mounting at a higher level.

If that is not what you mean, disregards my advice. I have SCM1's and could only be made happier by having SCMS's. Otherwise, I am pleased.
post #12102 of 17906
^^ Yes, i mean SCMS, now i found a set they sell for $1200 with bracket. is this a good deal?
post #12103 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarmillMan View Post

Aren't some of your high end ATI amps pushing out more than 300 watts a channel?

That is correct. tongue.gif

But I was just saying the B&W do not need all that power.

Even on my Denon 3312 alone (no ext amp), the 802D2 played extremely loud. They are the loudest speakers I own even when powered with only the Denon 3312.

But since I already have the AT3005, naturally I use it for my speakers. wink.gifbiggrin.gif[/q

I have 802D, not D2, but most at listening sessions I have peak power is below 100W. This is really loud (close to 100dB average at listening position).
But I have few records where peak to average ratio reaches 40dB. When I listened to those, I saw peaks over 300W, and I felt comfortable with how loud (or rather NOT loud) they were. My amplifier is designed to handle impedance down to 1 Ohm though. So generally you do not need more than 100W from your amplifier, but then you occasionally can reach clipping point. So I suggest to have at least 300 Watts on tap for these speakers.
post #12104 of 17906
Speaking of amps, I am currently using the 8ohm taps of Mcintosh MC452 to my B&W 802Diamonds. I live in a highrise apartment and at my loudest listening level, I have seen the amp power meters go all the way up to 60w so the mc452 is way way overkill it seems--although several dealers were trying to convince me to get the mc602 monoblocks lol...

Should I try the 4ohm taps or 2ohm taps? its a pain for me to move that amp and rewire the anaconda like transparent speakers cables...
post #12105 of 17906

I like using the 4ohm tap on the MC-303 with my 800Diamonds.  The nominal rating of the speaker is 8ohms.

post #12106 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvinhj240 View Post

^^ Yes, i mean SCMS, now i found a set they sell for $1200 with bracket. is this a good deal?

I believe that is a good deal, assuming they are in very good to excellent shape. You can look around the auction sites and see that they rarely go for less than $1,100. It is a sickness of mine to follow them I I would have preferred the SCMS over the 1's as I noted, the tweeter is lower and would be easier to place on my back wall. As it stands now, I have to angle the SCM1's down and the SCMS's would be a btter match.

Also, many, many people want these for surrounds and rears and the price is just not dropping in the used market. If anyone has done far better, no offense if you think the price is high.
post #12107 of 17906
Where would one go to get the 803 Diamonds and since they are so high priced how do you guys who own them buy ? do you pay cash or finance it ? If its later which retailers do you shop at and can you recommend them. Magnolia sells them but my best buy card limit is not that high so I am kind of donno what to do kind of situation..
post #12108 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I like using the 4ohm tap on the MC-303 with my 800Diamonds.  The nominal rating of the speaker is 8ohms.

Were you able to notice a difference is sound using the 4ohm vs the 8ohm taps?
post #12109 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by rthotapalli View Post

Where would one go to get the 803 Diamonds and since they are so high priced how do you guys who own them buy ? do you pay cash or finance it ? If its later which retailers do you shop at and can you recommend them. Magnolia sells them but my best buy card limit is not that high so I am kind of donno what to do kind of situation..


For things like speakers if you can't pay cash - you simply can't afford them. Audio components are not something that warrants interest charges. If you have access to 0% interest credit, you can use it to optimize cash flow though. But you still should have enough money to pay off in full at any point of time. If you feel that price of new speakers is too high, look for few yeas old ones at places like Audiogon. You can save 30-50% that way.
post #12110 of 17906
I'm curious if anyone here who has heard a CMC2 and CM9 setup has also heard any of the JTR speakers to compare them to. I'm mainly interested in a movie environment as to how they sound, not musically.

I was going to purchase the B&W speakers but decided to wait a little bit to demo some other speakers just to be sure I get what I want if I'm spending that kind of money and JTR seems like a really good option, however I can't find anywhere to demo them and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to spend money on those without demo'ing them first.

Just curious as to if anyone has heard those 2 setups in a movie environment and how they would say they compare.
post #12111 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by rthotapalli View Post

Where would one go to get the 803 Diamonds and since they are so high priced how do you guys who own them buy ? do you pay cash or finance it ? If its later which retailers do you shop at and can you recommend them. Magnolia sells them but my best buy card limit is not that high so I am kind of donno what to do kind of situation..

The diamond series isn't available on line to my knowledge so you have to go to the retailers or the used market. It depends on how much items are and how much I have available at the time but I have financed a lot over the years. I typically make sure I'm not doing it for much more than a year but two is my absolute limit and always take advantage of no interest no payment plans for x number of months and before the term is up tranfser whatever balance there is over to my low interest line of credit. I have a rule to never get something I can't pay off or pay for inside of two years. Knock on wood, so far so good. When thinking about financing I always break things down to monthly payments beforehand to figure out what I'm comfortable with given whatever other finances I have in my life at the time. The payment will always dictate what I can afford so my desire and passion has to take a back seat to reality which is why I have gone the diamond route and not say Focal Grande Utopia's or Wilson Alexandria's biggrin.gif
Edited by Rod#S - 11/28/12 at 7:33am
post #12112 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter View Post


Were you able to notice a difference is sound using the 4ohm vs the 8ohm taps?

Nope.  Change-over is not swift with the Mac connectors so comparison is difficult.  Still, I have been happy this way for 3 years.

post #12113 of 17906
Does SCM1 more expensive than SCMS?
post #12114 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvinhj240 View Post

Does SCM1 more expensive than SCMS?

The price are fairly similar between the two in the secondary market. I would assume this is because the SCM1's are based more on the original N805's and the SCMS's are loosely based on the S series. Frankly, I would look to pay a slight premium for the SCMS'S simply because they have supposedly superior crossover technology and better placement of the tweeter for higher wall placement. The wall placement though, is pretty much dependent upon personal speaker placement preference. As stated before, both speakers are holding their value in the used market incredibly well. They are popular because of their uniqueness in solving theater room and media area placement.
post #12115 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope.  Change-over is not swift with the Mac connectors so comparison is difficult.  Still, I have been happy this way for 3 years.

Ok will give it a go over the weekend.

How do you like the Mcintosh SS with B&W 800 combo? is that your primary amp to go with the B&W?

I am very happy with mine and the setup is still breaking in but would like to hear experiences of some others using a similar setup.

My amp and speakers are slightly different from yours--B&W 802 Diamonds (newest one) and McIntosh MC452.
post #12116 of 17906
I am just curious as to how much one could expect to pay for a decent pair of 801 series 3's, or 801 series 2's, or even a pair of 801 series 80?

How do the series 3, series 2, and series 80 versions of the 801's all compare sonically? Also, how do these same series versions of the 802's compare sonically?

I realize that you can get better speakers for less money than an older pair of 801's or 802's, but, I have always wanted to pick up a pair of them to tweak and play with just for the heck of it.
post #12117 of 17906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I am just curious as to how much one could expect to pay for a decent pair of 801 series 3's, or 801 series 2's, or even a pair of 801 series 80?
How do the series 3, series 2, and series 80 versions of the 801's all compare sonically? Also, how do these same series versions of the 802's compare sonically?

I would expect to pay $1400-$2000 for a pair of 801 Series 2 or 3's in good shape (I actually have a pair I'm looking to sell) based on what I've seen on Audiogon and eBay. They are very similar (IMO) sonically.

I am not as familiar with the 80s.
post #12118 of 17906
I am finally a proud B&W owner. I would have to agree with some of the other statements here that they do not “need” a lot of power to play loud. However, I am fairly certain that they do benefit from more power.

But my example, I have a pair of Marantz MA700 (200W each) powering my speakers and they had no problem getting to 100db in my home. However, what’s interesting is that I was at an “audition” event at my dealer recently and they managed to clip the 600W Classe mono blocks that were driving a pair of 800 Diamonds. But I guess due to the acoustical treatment and relatively large room size they only got to roughly 100db before there was noticeable clipping during heavy bass notes.

So as they say, your mileage will vary.
post #12119 of 17906
I am finally a proud B&W owner. I would have to agree with some of the other statements here that they do not “need” a lot of power to play loud. For example, I have a pair of Marantz MA700 (200W each) powering my speakers and they had no problem getting to 100db. However, what’s interesting is that I was at an “audition” event at my dealer recently and they managed to clip the 600W Classe mono blocks that were driving a pair of 800 Diamonds. But I guess due to the acoustical treatment and relatively large room size they only got to roughly 100db before there was noticeable clipping during heavy bass notes.

So I am re-arranging everything in the family room due to the new speakers and got a chance to compare bi-amping vs. single amping.

My equipment is as follows: Onkyo PR-SC5508; B&W 802 diamond; Monitor Audio Silver Center; N.E.A.R. Mast (used to be the front speakers); Play Station 3; Comcast digital HD DVR; Three Marantz MA700 mono blocks; 4 Marantz MA500 mono blocks; Belkin PureAV PF60.

So I used the Onkyo primarily in “Pure Audio” mode and hooked it up to the MA 700 (200W into 8 ohms / 300W into 4 ohms each) to drive the B&W. As I mentioned above, the speakers play loud. They also sound very good.

I then decided to try using the MA700 for the bass and the MA500 (125W into 8 ohms / 185 W into 4 ohms each) for the mids and highs. So I switched the Onkyo to bi-amp mode and again did most of my listening using “Pure Audio” mode. I used dissimilar cables that weren’t even the same length (close enough I guess).

What’s the result? To me, to my ears, in my room, the above bi-amping arrangement produced a “better” sound. I don’t know how to describe it and what exactly changed, but it just sounded better. I do not believe the difference was huge but I certainly think it’s there. I may try to get a friend of mine who has 803 diamonds over to try to do a simple blind test with him to see what he thinks.

Which brings me to a couple of questions:

1. People in this thread seem to think that passive bi-amping is a complete waste of time, do you agree?: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336776/biamping-with-onkyo-tx-nr5008-vs-1-amp-and-onkyo-pr-sc5508

2. How do you drive your diamonds?
3. Have you experimented with bi-amping?
4. How do you feel about the “match” between my current amplifiers and the diamonds?

Thanks for your thoughts.


post #12120 of 17906
Congrats on your new beautiful 802D2 speakers! They are just wonderful speakers. biggrin.gif

I am using an ATI AT3005 amp to power my 802D2 (single-amp only as I also believe passive bi-amp is a waste, like bi-wiring or spending tons on speaker wires, etc).

I also think amps don't have a signature of their own if they are accurate amps. A high quality low distortion amp that can handle impedance dips is the key.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 11/30/12 at 9:13am
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