B&W Owner's Thread - Page 413

yea.. I will start off with the stands.. the $150 stands.. not the $400 stands.. If I was buy the $400 stands then I could just go with the CM8s..

Can't wit to get my 3.1 setup!!

btw thumbtackjack, i was not dissing your judgement in speakers by talking down on the energy speakers. I was actually impressed with them at first because of some of the immediate impressions on them. They push the mids very forward and it results in hearing a lot of detail which is impressive. They also give off a good soundstage and a punchy mid bass. Had i not had experience with a lot of headphones and demo'd a little more than a handful of speakers, i would not have noticed the things i found to be a problem with the speakers.
There are still a few things about the cm9's i would like to change but nothing that would make me not be able to listen to them and actually enjoy.

Brought CM9s recently. Had a question regarding the same.
Whenever i turn the AMP on, there is a slight pop sound from the speakers.

Any idea what could be the issue.

Thanks,
Saurabh

That's most likely the amp relays. My Rotel amp has a slightly audible click/pop when I turn it on (I usually just leave it on though). The Klipsch speakers I had seemed louder when this happened than the CM9's do. If that's all it is, and it sure seems that way, it's nothing to get worried about.

So anyone else have any comments about HTM2D2 and HTM4D2? Thanks.

Oh thats fine bthrb4u, no worries! Are you sure you heard the RC-70s or Energy's newer Veritas line? I only ask because I believe the RC line is much harder to find now since it's discontinued AFAIK.

They were the rc's. I know the veritas as i wanted them very badly when first starting out because of the price vs msrp that vanns had them. That and reviews.
Best buy had them left over and had them for $274 a piece on sale.

thumbtack, i can admit when i'm wrong. I just called and they were cf-70. I believe the rc is a high range model?

From the B&W 802 Diamond Owners Manual...
The performance of your speakers may change subtly
during the initial listening period. If they have been
stored in a cold environment, the damping compounds
and suspension materials of the drive units will
take some time to recover their correct mechanical
properties. The drive unit suspensions will also loosen
up during the first hours of use. The time taken for
the speakers to achieve their intended performance
will vary depending on previous storage conditions
and how it is used. As a guide, allow up to a week
for the temperature effects to stabilise and 15 hours
of average use for the mechanical parts to attain their
intended design characteristics.

Longer run-in periods (as long as a month) are also
sometimes reported and there is evidence to suggest
that these have little to do with speakers changing and
more to do with listeners becoming familiar with the
new sound. This is especially so with highly revealing
speakers such as the 800 Series Diamond, where
there may be a significant increase in the amount
of musical detail compared with what listeners have
previously been used to.

I bought the HTM2 and do not regret spending the money. The speaker produces very clear dialog sound. I can hear dialog with this speaker that I never heard with my previous center speaker.

I own the N804 for about 12 years and I have read (at least in really old articles) that it needs sufficient power to really drive it satisfactorily. Currently I use an old Accuphase E-407 integrated amp (Class AB) with 180w/ch. I don't know if I'm getting the best out of my N804 but I feel it lacks life (or "anaemic" as described in some forums).

Before considering switching speakers to 804Ds or even to Sonus Fabers altogether, I'd like to ask possibly a somewhat simplistic question about amps and power. I'm confused about the difference in wattage of Class AB amps vs Class A amps vs tube amps. I'm seeing Class A and tube amps to have lower wattage than Class AB amps. As mentioned above, I read that the N804s require quite a bit of power to drive it properly :-

1) Would I be able to compare watt-for-watt between these 3 different types of amps? i.e. how does an Class AB 180w/ch amp compare to an Class A 45w/ch (e.g. Accuphase A-45) or to a 75w/ch tube amp (McIntosh MC-275)?
2) Is it worthwhile considering these other types of amps or is it safer to just get a more powerful Class AB amp?

Unfortunately most shops in Tokyo don't have a "bring home try before you buy" policy. Finally, I'm seeking a somewhat big-ish change to sound such as improvement in bass, and and improvement in detail. Can I get by with changing my amp or am I better off changing speakers altogether?

Thank you for your patience.

Do you have it crossed over at 80Hz?

683 owners, can you please do me a big favor and tell me these info about the speaker's plinth (base):

1- Is it the flat top version or 4 post plinth?
2- What are the dimensions (Length X Width)?

I've asked this before and didn't get an answer, I want to know if one version of the plinth is larger than the other, I'm going through some stuff with my dealer and would like to ask him to get me the bigger and more stable version of the plinth if possible.

@anakchan this might help explain amplification if that's what you need.http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/10-things-about-audio-amplifiers

I have the HTM4 to match my 805D fronts. It sounds great to me.

If you have fronts that are further up the diamond chain, the HTM2 may be a better match.

I think if I had 804D or higher I would have gone with the HTM2, but I must say I have no complaints whatsoever about my HTM4.

Also, the size of the HTM4 is a much better fit for my room.

Evidence? The manual is not "evidence". The only evidence we see are people saying so through their experiences.

Sure, the woofers may have some physical changes. But again and again whether those changes (reported up to 10% changes, although not really published) make any significant audible difference is the question.

The midrange and tweeter have a lot less physical changes, so their break-ins are really insignificant.

But there are NO published evidence of any significant audible differences with the unpublished "up to 10% woofer changes" or any speaker break-ins. The only thing we have are owner's manuals and people stating their opinions.

But it's cool either way whatever people chose to believe.

And what evidence do you have to suggest that speaker break in is not audible or doesn't exist?

Does this qualify as published evidence of speaker break in? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

There are opinions, and there are educated opinions:
http://www.eminence.com/2011/06/speaker-break-in/

Bill, I wouldn't argue with him. Not worth it...... There is a wonderful button where you can ignore. I would suggest it.

My evidence of speaker break-in being totally insignificant:

1. The Audioholic article with graphs, tables, explanation: http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

2. I have 9 sets of speaker systems in my house to compare. My personal opinion is that speakers and amps break-ins are insignificant.

Of course, if you believe that they are significant, that's perfectly fine too as I've repeatedly said.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 12/15/12 at 8:57pm

If you have something worth contributing to the forum, then let's hear it. If you disagree, thats fine too because we're all entitled an opinion minus any insults and attacks. I voiced my opinions and disagreement without attacking or insulting anyone.

Nobody wants to hear you do personal attacks like an immature little boy. So grow up.

Yes. And Audioholic's opinion is very educated too.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

Must have hit a nerve. Three messages, all blocked. Life is good!!!! I just am not a fan of condescending criticism from anyone. Let's keep it real and preferably from people who own B&W speakers or wish to buy them. As said, I own quite a few different models and enjoy them, They all require some break in and B&W says as much in each and every guide and manual. Odd people with some kind of front speaker wall of mish mash gear do not speak for the manufacturer. For most enthusiasts, we don't have a weird wall of speakers but an actual media/audio listening room. I also have never found B&W literature to be over the top, unrealistic in explanation or anything but professional. So........ not even needing to know what stuff has recently been spewed. I claim some speaker break in is very expected. Not so much SS Amplifiers or AVR's or "heaven forbid" wires and cables. Speakers, though have real mechanical and moving parts.They do change with time.......This is not a new or odd concept.
Edited by SeattleHTGuy - 12/15/12 at 9:15pm

+1 from a B&W owner...

+1
I have owned multiple B&W systems.

Two of those systems had some speakers that were identical.
I purchased additional speakers of the same model to add to one of the existing systems.
I could tell the difference in sound between the speakers that I had owned for over year and the same speaker that I just purchased.
The sound was not vastly different, but it was different.

I have read SeattleHTGuy posts in various threads on AVS for years.
I have appreciated his perspective and have found that I have a similar opinion in regards to different system components.

No - 60Hz. This was the recommended setting based on Audyssey. I've tried 80 Hz and 60 Hz. I like 60 Hz better.

My fronts are the 802D2.

This kind of tracks with what I did for the front 802D2 - I have them crossed over at 40Hz because I want the 802D2 to produce more of the sound vs. blending with the sub. I will upgrade my sub in the future, and question if at that point I will end up going to 80Hz all around or if I will stay the same... Which brings me to my original question, if I cross things over at 80Hz is it worth to spend (retail money) $5k for the HTM2D2 vs. say $7k for am HTM4D2 and a DB1? Or am I better off to spend the $5k on the center, and maybe cross it over at 60Hz or whatever and use less of the sub.

Also, this reminds me of a different question, being that the HTM2D2 is ported in the rear, how/where do you have it mounted?

Where do you have the 802D2 crossed over? Thanks.

My thoughts about the whole break-in thing, amps all sounding the same, cables make a difference, etc. is just to use my own ears. I honestly take what scientific publications that uses instruments to record performance specs, etc. with a grian of salt because those can only analyze so much of any particular product. Hearing is such a personal thing as is sight and and of course not related to the audio/video entertainment world, taste. People preceive things differently and those are real to the individual and have a direct impact on a person's like or dislike of something. Sure at the end of the day people can quote or link to as many publications as possible telling a person who heard a difference between two cables, two amps, etc.that there was no scientific difference but do you really think a person who preceived hearing a difference is likely to change their mind about their preference after reading any of these articles, I suspect the likelihood is no.

We are all entitled to our opinions and I just hate to see one side bash the other because of differences of opinion.