B&W Owner's Thread - Page 418

The speakers I had prior to these were Klipsch's, which are a fairly "bright" speaker. I haven't found the CM9's to be muffled on the high end by comparison. In reference to the other poster, I am running plain old 12 gauge speaker wire FWIW. Have you checked that the connectors used for biamp bypassing are in place and that the binding nuts are tight? It would be weird if that was an issue, but it somewhat fits with what you are describing.

There was a link posted months ago (I'll have to look for it later), where MIT (I think) did a double blind test using CDs and SACDs. Virtually all objective measurement was on the side of the SACDs. However, the test showed that people couldn't tell the difference. The same gear was used for the playing. The point was that subjective listening is still the most important to ENJOYING music. I think that personal judgement is the most telling point once budget is established. Equipment within broad ranges of price are usually comparable in quality, so only ears will convince of the difference. Large price differences should bring differences in quality and usually do, but there's no accounting for taste!

I know this is all user preference, but if I'm going to plug (because) i have a sub should i plug the center as well? Does it make a difference that the rel sub gets frequencies from the l&r channels during regular stereo listening and off the .1 in other modes????

As Jerry says, speakers, room, placement, setup make the most significant impact.

Amps can make a difference, but not anywhere as significant as speakers & room.

Cables and cords make absolutely no difference unless they were made to color the sound or are defective.

You'd want to find the Frequency Response of the center when plugged. If it goes down well past the crossover point with the sub, you'll likely benefit from plugging that too.

Did it come with a plug? Centers are usually "bookshelf sized" and the port is used to get down past crossover point.

With a sub attached: all your speakers should be set to "small" and all LF should route to the sub(s). (The only exceptions I can think of would be with full range stereo music where you worry about having below-crossover-point bass coming out-of-phase on the L and R channels)

Noob question, how can I know the exact frequency range that the woofer port produces? That will help me know if plugging a port will matter to me or not, because if the woofer only works for 80hz and less then there's no point plugging it since my subwoofer will produce anything less than that.

Any idea why the 800/802 did not come with plugs?

Stereophile's measurements usually show the port output. It's generally an upside-down V-shaped hump centered around the tuning frequency (looks like ^).

For example, figure 4 here shows the CM5's port output (in red):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-amp-wilkins-cm5-loudspeaker-measurements

It's centered around 48Hz.

For a tower with two woofers, the tuning frequency would likely be a little lower, meaning the port output would be centered around, say, 38Hz or 40Hz.

So, most of the port output would be in the range covered by the subwoofer, but the port output can and usually does include some energy above the crossover frequency to the sub.

That means that even when you use a sub, plugging the port - or not - will have some influence on the upper bass, but it will be a fairly subtle influence.

I would suspect that they are not designed to run sealed.

This is especially true of the crossover is adjusting for port behavior. Close the port and the crossover is now moving you away from flat.

I lack the knowledge to guess at what specifically allows or disallows a driver/enclosure to run either/or or not. I am mostly working from the manuals for speakers that do come with plugs; especially the one from SVS, which has considerable detail.

But the port behaves differently to different frequencies inside the enclosure as well. At some frequencies, it's the same a sealed; but at others it will affect how the driver performs.

When you plug the port, you do more than block the sound that's coming out of the port. You also change the nature of the enclosure in a way which varies by frequencies.

I suspect, but do not know, that enclosure which come with plugs (are designed to run plugged or unplugged) are ones where these forces balanced out to offer a (functionally) flat frequency response regardless of the port being plugged. If not, they should not offer either the port or the plug (one or the other).

It is also possible that, unlike the speakers who's manuals I have read regarding plugs; some speakers use the plugs as some sort of -3db switch or the like to address issues with LF reinforcement caused by wall placement or corner loading.

Yea, there is more to it than what I posted, but I was trying not to write a dissertation.

This isn't a B&W speaker, but in this review of the PSB Imagine T, you can see in Figure 5 plots of the overall output with the plugs in and out:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/psb-imagine-t-loudspeaker-measurements


As you can see, with the plugs removed, you get more bass output near and just above the tuning frequency, but the output drops off quicker below that.

With the plugs inserted, you get less bass around the tuning frequency and the region above, but it doesn't drop off so quickly below.

Since metallicaband will be using a sub, the low bass difference won't be an issue, so instead he should note the small difference in output in the 100Hz range.

I know I've seen at least one or two people not too.impressed with the CM1s. Also saying they don't pair well with the towers in the CM line. Through some google searching, there are a couple of companies who have a bookshelf theater package which consist of CM5s for the front, and CM1s for the rear.

Our local BB, (not the greatest, but the only local dealer in HI - with the CM line) has differing opinions. 1 sales guy tells me the 1s will do the trick, another guy says to just go with some M1s. Interestingly enough the guy who said CM1, says that the M-1s get returned fairly often...

I can squeeze the wife into possibly the cm1s.. Definitely not the CM9s... Hell i can hardly justify the 9s to myself given i am already 4-5 times over my budget for my whole system.

Any other thoughts on the CM1 for the rear with 5s pulling the main duty???

Anyone seen the difference between the $400 B&W stands vs. the $150 pair? Are they a lot more stable (i got toddlers), or is it mainly $250 more of nice...
Edited by raycie - 12/29/12 at 9:08am

I see no difference in quality. It's pure rip off for pure aesthetic reasons, but so many $150 speaker stands look even better and have a lot more height options than many speaker brand stands.

Dear all,

I'm new here and thought it would be good to start with introducing myself and my equipment first ... I'm Peter, I live in Belgium and recently upgraded parts of my gear. I'm a fan of both surround and stereo and put together the following :
- pioneer sc-lx85 receiver
- pioneer bdp-lx54 blu ray player
- B&W CM9 front speakers
- B&W CM Center 2
- B&W ASW 3000 subwoofer
- some older to be replaced Canton surround speakers
- Sony KDL55xh850 55" 3D led tv
- lots of apple stuff :-)

Overall I'm very happy but I'm struggling with the following :
- is the ASW3000 ok or would replacing it with the ASW 10 CM or 610 (or another one ...) due to newer technologies be advised. Can't find a lot about the 3000.
- the CM9's are currently bi-amped ... Is this the best thing to do with this setup in a rather big room ?
- wich wall-mountable surround speakers are good with this combo ?

Any thoughts or advise are more than welcome

Gr,
Peter

There's no point. Also: it doesn't sound like you are using an external amp (much less 2) so whether you are functionally bi-ampig is in doubt.

If you are happy: than all is good. If you are looking to expand dynamic range (the CM9 can take 200W) consider an inexpensive external amp (I didn't check, but am presuming your AVR has pre-outs).
Only you can answer this: but B&W isn't exactly known for their subwoofers. In the US I'd recommend SVS, Rythmik, or Hsu. I'm not sure who your best sources are over there.

Just reconfigured the theater and added 803 wides....calibrating now with the Marantz 8801 and Audyssey Pro...

Beautiful b&w system and room. Where does your wife stand when she tells you to turn it down?

Usually at the entrance!

Haven't had a chance to update all the photos in my build thread, hopefully my next weekend - the 805's you see in the previous config are now rears.

I'm looking to have custom wall mounts built to use 805's as heights - we'll see....

You put the subs back on the floor?

Thanks a lot for the info!

To compare opposing mid-wall performance vs my prior setup. It was late so could not crank it, but they may go back where they were on the platforms...

Tested a little more, and did not like the mid wall placement and lowering them. Put them back of the platforms, about two feet from the from the front corners (so similar to before, but a little more spread out).

Disclaimer, I am not even a noob, i am pre-noob, so please take my comments in that context and feel free to correct me if my assertions are wrong, however don't so it without proof

With all due respect blondas, but if you are implying you can pick the differences in sounds based on chords and cables you are just plain silly It is truly laughable when audiophile types make such silly claims.
If people claim they like it more, it is because they were in a different mood than before, among other things. It has zero to do with the sound. As this test clearly proves, all these nuances you guys claim to hear are games being played in your head.

Have a read:
http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_marco.htm

Mixing and matching???

Went to "show" the wife the CM9s yesterday. She did like the sound a lot, but not $3,000 enough. She wants me to just pickup a pair of CM1s for the rear and stop bugging her already.. Lol..

Got me to thinking, they had 2 open box martin logan motion 20 slim towers for about the same price that CM1s + stands would run me. Any thoughts to use the ML motion 20s as surrounds with my CM5s as mains??? At least the whole front would be uniformly yhe CM line....

You know what, you have your opinion, I have mine and there is no way we can convince one another. Let us leave it this way. You inspired me though to play a bit with my room setting.
First of all names that you call me make you no partner in this discussion. If it is your arguement, go play with kids in a playground. There are many links saying one thing or another and many discussions about it, so citing one that suits your needs is rather immature.
Secondly, I do not call myself any audiophile, it is all for pleasure, I have no fancy equipment and no high expectations. But I guess you know better what is in my head and ears, and you know what, stick to your opinion, I really do not care. I bet there are many people thinking like I but afraid to write here because of guys like you, when a discussion ends "when you claim so, you are silly". I will know better next time when having controversial opinions and probably not share it here.

Blondas;

Don't be discouraged by the nay-sayers. Say what you think.

Your opinion is just as important and valuable as anyone else's.

I have been hearing differences in amplifiers for 40 years, but there are people who will say they all sound the same. They are entitled to think so.

It is however, a misuse of this forum to trash someone else's opinion, but there are some who seem to do it repeatedly.

The best thing to do is state your opinion and ignore anyone who attacks you. No response is the best response to that kind of behavior.

There's a difference between opinion and fact. Both sides are making a claim of fact.

But this is a B&W thread; and since B&W does not make cables nor amps: let's move on.

Yes, exactly. When presented with evidence or information that challenges deeply held beliefs, it's always best to bury one's head in the sand and ignore that evidence.

That's how science works.



Isn't it?

B&W Group is actually making amps - Rotel and Classe.

I'm pretty sure it remains "out of scope" for the thread.