B&W Owner's Thread - Page 423

 

Cool, I am doing 800Diamonds L/C/R and 802D RS/LS/BSR/BSL

Considering though I'm matching the dual Rythmiks with 805's, it would only be responsible of us to find out how they pair with 802's. 802 owners, ship in my direction, PLEASE

must be nice. i would love to try a pair of 802, let alone, 800 for my fronts in my ht. Since i crossover to a sub, i do not know if the large price would be worth it.

You were able to find a single 802D then? If so, damn that was quick. I figured it would have taken you months to find a single one on the used market.

P.S. Have you re-arranged your room since adding rear surrouds? Based on the old pictures I have seen it looks as if your doors would open straight into the rear speakers.

Given the design differences between the 802/800 and the 803/804, even crossing over to a sub at the same frequency the 802/800 are going to sound better than the 803/804 especially in the mids due to the marlan head and even better again if we are talking the 805 due to the 805's lack of FST mid range. Your mention of large price difference is obviously the key point and if the better performance to price ratio is worth it to the individual.

It's only worth it if you have the cash.

Honestly, if I had to choose between a 2.0 800D2 vs a 2.2 805D2/dual Funk 18.0 subs, I would have to go with the 805D2 + dual Funk 18.0 subs.

The 802D2/800D2 are great, but I think their bass SQ is nothing compared to dual Funk 18.0 subs and their midrange & tweeter SQ may be better, but just not significantly better than the 805D2. IMO.

My dealer had the 805, 802, & 800 in the same room. I've compared them just focussing on the midrange & treble. I really can't say there was even a difference. So if there is a difference theoretically, it wasn't very significant to my ears, but everyone is different.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 1/26/13 at 12:33pm

I bet if you cross them both @ 80Hz, the results would be strikingly similar....if you can remove bias from the equation because naturally the 802 would just sound much better than the 805. Naturally. The 802 cost $10,000 more than the 805.

I hope that bias remark wasn't fired across my bow.

That's why I love this hobby, everything is so subjective and we all hear things differently. My experience differs from yours. I have heard 805's and 804's at my dealers in the same room hooked up to the same equipment and I much preferred the 804's. Much better focus and neutrality in the mids to my ears and there was a sub hooked up and crossed over at the typical 80. I feel my HTM2 delivers a very similar performance as the 804's I heard. I can't comment on a comparison to a 803 as I have never heard the new 803's. I feel the 802 steps it up a notch or two in 3 dimensionality, coherance and refinement. Like I have stated before the 802 has been the first speaker I have listened to that with the right recording makes you feel as if the singer, band or orchestra is literally there with you. It's freaky in that sense when it happens.

And no arguments about subs being better at the lowest frequencies than almost all tower speakers on the market, maybe even all towers period but I don't know what it is about setting a towers crossover lower than 80Hz, closer to it's lower limits that just makes for better overall sound and integration between the speakers than crossing over to the sub at 80Hz but to my ears this is pretty consistent. I have observed this with my Paradigm 60v2's, 100v2's and my current 802's.

 

 

Agreed, I love the 802D, but I can tell you that once you experience 800 Diamond there is no going back, the transparency is just unbelievable. :)

 

I also thought about the 805D all across with four JLAudio F212, but to be honest for music the subs don't even come on so for me listening to classical music on Blu Ray or multichannel SACD that’s' "Nirvana" :) Yes I like them too

 

And when I watch a movie like PROMETHUS the bass is strong enough that I feel the walls are coming down!

 

By the way, there is a reason why studios like these are using B&W 800Diamonds, they can buy what ever they want!

 

http://www.abbeyroad.com/Studio/7/Studio-Three

"Studio Three is an incredibly versatile facility with a history of pioneering projects including Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here” and some of the very first 5.1 surround mixes for the Beatles Anthology, U2 and Coldplay. Studio Three Control Room: Constructed around a 96-channel SSL 9000 J series console, Studio Three’s control room is a world-class mix facility, perfect for album projects and film soundtracks. The room has Quested stereo monitoring in addition to a 5.1 B&W 800D set up."

 

As a mater of facts all their rooms use B&W 800Diamonds

 

http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=5589

 

Look at the scoring Control room at http://www.skysound.com/

 

Enough said :)

I think Skywalker Sound just uses 802's not 800's and unlike Abbey Road I don't think they upgraded to the newest Diamond series unless they just haven't updated their photos in a while. The tell from the picture I saw was the black ash finish which is no longer offered, black is now only available in piano gloss black like AcuDefTechGuy has. The actual equipment list has them as B&W Nautilus 802 but I'm pretty sure they are not 802N's but 802D's. The equipment list has a few subs listed but doesn't mention how they are used with respect to the main speakers.
With Abbey Road using 800's I'm not sure if they even have subs but I don't think I have ever seen their equipment lists.
Edited by Rod#S - 1/26/13 at 6:11pm

I always have a habit of playing Devil's advocate.

Bias affects everyone, including me and everyone else. And everyone does have a different experience for sure. Always 2 sides to every story. I was just giving my side.

Just like there is a reason why other studios use TAD, Revel, KEF, etc.

The reason is because they FEEL LIKE IT.

Obviously, there are better speakers out there. Some could argue that the $80K TAD R1 is better. Or the $200K KEF Muon or $30K KEF Blade or $200K Focal Grande Utopia, etc. These billion dollar corporations could surely buy whatever they want.

Again, always playing devil's advocate.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 1/27/13 at 5:43am

I have a couple of questions for you users. Currently running Paradigm towers, and because of a new (and very large 90" tv), need smaller speakers for my space. Im looking for higher quality that will sound great, mainly for Home Theater.

How would the 805D be for Home Theater? They would be paired with a good subwoofer. I am currently running a Denon 4520 receiver. Would this be enough to properly power the speakers, or would I need an additional power amp?

For matching Center, would you recommend the HTM2 or HTM4? Is their a noticable sound / performance difference? I dont mind spending more if it makes sense, as I expect to have the speakers for a long time.

Finally, any thoughts on the DB1? A lot of people love some of the Internet subs, but my dealer will give me an excellent price!!

Thanks for your advice. I have listened to the speakers, and am going back next week to listen some more.

How far are you sitting from the speakers?

If you are like most of us who sit no more than 15ft away, my opinion is that the 805D2 will be excellent for HT & the Denon AVR is fine w/o ext amps. The 805D2 is 88dB/2.83v/m, 8ohms nominal, 4.7ohms minimum (most likely in the bass region, not midrange or treble). The subs/woofers get most of the power requirement. The midrange & tweeter require much less power.

I would just get the HTM4 for center.

I would never get subs from B&W (or other B&M companies) because they underperform compared to the ID companies. Get something from Funk, SVS, Rythmik, HSU, etc.

805D's would make excellent home theater speakers. The Denon will be just fine powering them. The HTM4 is essentially a 805 on it's side so it would compliment the 805's perfectly. The HTM2 is a definite step up and would give more depth and punch then the HTM4 and I'd bet the mids will be better giving more clarity because I did notice this difference when comparing the 805 to the 804 so the same should be true of the HTM4 vs the HTM2. If you are trying to match all speakers as best as possible then getting the HTM4 would be what you want, heck could even use another 805 for the center.
I have never heard the DB1 but I'm sure it is a really nice sub. Personally I never think of B&W when I'm thinking subs.

Yes, I would get 5 identical 805D2 all around for perfect timbre matching.

It's my understanding that the big difference between the original 803 and 803S is the tweeter. I don't know if the crossover had changed as well. As such, I'm wondering if it would be advantageous to simply upgrade my standard 803 tweeters to use the 803S tweeter if they're plug-and-play.

I have an HTM3S as my center which I believe uses the same tweeter as the 803S so this could help to balance out my system at the high end of the audio range with the same components.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Thanks!

I bought some DS3s for my rear surrounds, like them so much I bought two more for my sides. Small theater room, 16 feet deep, two rows. Kind of tough to get a feel with no projector yet but so far listening to them sitting in either of the rows, I think I like the rears on mono and the sides on dipole. Anyone have a similar setup? How are you running them?

I think it's easy to claim bias when it's a one off situation. I bought my 802's blind and lucked out and although there is an enormous price difference between them and either the 805 or 804 I don't regret anything. Some might say because I have 802's I'm now biased and will always say they are better then a 805 and 804 if for nothing else but to justify my choice. If I didn't feel it was worth the money and I couldn't actually hear as much of a difference as I state I can hear, with me still needing 2 more pairs of speakers to buy to complete the Paradigm switch out I definitely wouldn't be buying perhaps 2 additional pairs of 802's because that would just be stupid as I'm far from made of money.

You are interesting though out of curiosity, with you saying in an earlier post "Honestly, if I had to choose between a 2.0 800D2 vs a 2.2 805D2/dual Funk 18.0 subs, I would have to go with the 805D2 + dual Funk 18.0 subs. The 802D2/800D2 are great, but I think their bass SQ is nothing compared to dual Funk 18.0 subs and their midrange & tweeter SQ may be better, but just not significantly better than the 805D2. IMO. My dealer had the 805, 802, & 800 in the same room. I've compared them just focussing on the midrange & treble. I really can't say there was even a difference. So if there is a difference theoretically, it wasn't very significant to my ears, but everyone is different." why on earth did you get the 802's and not the 805's?

Thanks for your thoughts. I've heard the 802s a few times in the high end store with the perfectly treated room. Wow. But I realize my audible memory and room differences make it impossible for me to properly compare to my system. I am crossing at 80Hz and the 805S's dig down to 49 Hz so they aren't stressing. Have em on a 200x3 watt amp with HTM4S and the dual Rythmiks which I am very impressed with. Right up to reference, clean as clean can be. Sounds pretty fracking awesome to me. Maybe I can ease up on my lust for your 802's Nah, one day, they will be mine...maybe. When I do look for new mains (these are about 10 years old) I'll listen to a ton of stuff but these are so good to me B&W will start in the drivers seat. I plan on using these a good while longer though.

@richardfh
About 805s, get a competent sub, get them set-up and configured properly in the room and system, and you will be very happy. They have high WAF as well. I love rosenut finish but they are all beautiful. They sound fabulous.

If my room were much bigger, I would have gotten the 800D2 even thought I don't think the 800D2 is any better than the 802D2 in any way.

The 802D2 looks a lot better than the 803/804/805 aesthetically. It has a lot more prestige and pride of ownership. Did I mention I love the aesthetic of the 802D2? I think the 800/802 are best looking speakers ever.

And I got black because of the piano high-gloss finish. Also the making-of video of the 802D2 piano black.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 1/27/13 at 9:23am

That's one bad thing about not getting the flagship models. The 805D2 is a Diamond, but that Marlan head makes the flagship statement.

The 805D2 measures about +4.8/–2.0 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz.

The 802D2 measures about +2.8/–2.8 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz.

The 800D2 measures about +5.0/–1.5 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz.

So as far as frequency responses go, the 802D2 is the best one or most accurate one of the 3. The 800D2 is technically a little brighter than the 805D2, but overall very similar. Some people say even the 802D2 @ +1.5dB (8kHz), +2.0dB (9kHz), +2.8dB (10kHz) is a little bright, but I don't think any of the 3 are really bright for my taste.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/bowers-amp-wilkins-805-diamond-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

http://www.hometheater.com/content/bampw-802-diamond-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 1/27/13 at 9:54am

A lot of good comments on this page. Here are mine:

When I was buying my speakers I heard the 800D2 and 802D2 back to back, right next to each other run off the same everything (CP-800 with dual CA-M600). I have to say that there was a difference, but it was so negligible that to me it did not justify the price difference. Also, my room is big enough for 800’s and I the price difference to me is huge, so the 802D2 to me was an obvious choice.

I’ve heard 800D2 vs. 805D2 w/two PV1D. Same room and same equipment as above. There is a clear difference in sound. The price difference is also astronomical. I am not even going to attempt to describe the differences but will say this much – the coherence of having two speakers only that can do full range cannot be duplicated by a 2.1 or a 2.2 system, in my humble opinion. That alone is probably worth the price. However, on the flip side, you can do a kick ass 7.2 system with (7) 805D2 and (2) PV1D for less than the price of a pair of 800D2. Furthermore, if you like listening to heavy bass, having outboard subs will definitely allow you to adjust to your perfect preference. So, what’s more important to you?

As far as 805D2 and 804D2, there are clear and distinct differences in sound. I’ve heard those back to back next to each other as well. I can’t necessarily say one is better than the other but one will definitely sound better to some people and the other to others. The key here is that whichever of these you chose, you will “need” a subwoofer. In my opinion, unless you “must” have bookshelves, I would go with the 804D2, especially if you are planning on buying the B&W 805 speaker stands.

I never got to hear the 803D2 vs. the 802D2 in the same room but a good friend of mine has the 803D2 and I’ve spent time listening to his and he spent some time listening to mine. Clearly different rooms different equipment etc. etc. but we both feel the 802D2 is “better” overall and better with the bass. I guess the cabinet makes a good difference. He said (and I don’t disagree), he could listen to the 802D2 w/o a sub but not the 803D2. Maybe this is just a function of the rooms but I really think not…

Now the biggest reasons I went with the 802D2 over the 803D2 are: 1. I like listening to pure stereo better than 2.1/2.2 and the 802D2 delivers for just about all music; 2. Aesthetics (I too agree they are the best looking of the entire series and one of the best looking speakers period); 3. The price difference over 10+ years (which is how long I plan on keeping these) will not be significant.

Bottom line – go out and listen for yourself. Each of the diamond speakers sounds a little different and what sounds good to me, may not sound as good to you. But rest assured, there is no “wrong” choice between any of the diamonds.

I believe when this conversation started about the 800, 802,.....805 the discussion was about a hometheater, not two channel stereo listening.

since movies have lots of low end explosions i believe no mater what speaker you use a dedicated sub will be needed.

as far as hometheater is concerned... speakers being crossed over at 80.... is where the line gets blured between (805, 804, 803) as compared to the 802 and 800.

now the 804 and 803 have the FST midrange... not in the Marlin head but still the FST.

so i believe the question is....In home theater, with a sub..... how much more would one be getting if one purchased the 802 or 800 for home theater?

Bill

I just thought of something....

what is B&W recommending for a center channel for the 800 and /or 802? B&W does not make the Marlin head htm1D anymore...

the current matching center is the htm2.... No Marlin head.

i guess the argument would be that someone would just get 3 800 or 802 and use one for a center. i would imagine that would be a very few individuals that would get that.

Bill

1st, when comparing, it's best to do it within seconds of each other, not minutes.

So they had a 2 CD players, 1 CD player hooked to each speaker system at the same time? And they had 2 of the same CDs?

Or did they have to swap out the CD player and swap out the CD ?

2nd, both speaker systems need to be LEVEL MATCHED, which is most important. Most people don't even think of this. But even 1dB difference in level makes a significant difference.

Did you see them use an SPL meter and level match each system?

And did you check to see that both systems were set to Pure Direct or Direct? If one is set to Audyssey ON and one set to Audyssey OFF, that could be a significant difference.

Just some thoughts.

Any thoughts on the CM9s vs the PSB Imagine T2's and Synchrony ones and the Dynaudio Focus 260s?

CM9's have mixed reviews...hometheater.com gave them a 3.5 star which was odd because once the sub was crossed in they were supposedly pretty good.

Found out today I've got a local guy that can get B&W.

My primary concern is 2 ch music.

LOL..I love it

This is a very interesting statement and maybe something that gets overlooked as I have seen many times potential owners of 802/800 speakers get denied because the other half thought they were hideous. The marlan heads yield love'em or hate'em responses really fast. The 805's with them being so small not to mention sounding so good are a much easier sell than even the 804's and 803's.

These are all very good comments. If the most accurate music reproduction is not the focus or if the individual really likes heavy bass and typically finds themselves going into a receiver's settings and boosting the bass then a subwoofer is a must. I just can't see that type of person being satisfied without a sub. Even with 800's, boosting the bass level would be no comparison for having a sub.

The 805's with the B&W stands are very close to the price of the 804's so this is something people should give some extra thought to. Bookshelves on stands make me paranoid as they are easy to knock off, the 804 would be so much more stable.

I also agree that the 802 and 800 lend themselves more to the purist music listener and if also being used for home theater music is probably a major percentage of the listening. I think a lot of this has to do with the mids produced from the marlan heads and the tighter bass from the more inert cabinets that just squeezes more realism out of the 800 line than the 805, 804 and 803. If crossing over to a sub a 80Hz then it gets pretty hard to recommend the 802 and 800 even just on the big price bump alone.
Edited by Rod#S - 1/27/13 at 2:04pm