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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 424

post #12691 of 13875
1/27/13 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I just thought of something....

what is B&W recommending for a center channel for the 800 and /or 802? B&W does not make the Marlin head htm1D anymore...

the current matching center is the htm2.... No Marlin head.

i guess the argument would be that someone would just get 3 800 or 802 and use one for a center. i would imagine that would be a very few individuals that would get that.

Bill

Oddly enough it's the HTM2. They basically have no choice smile.gif A third 802/800 is the perfect match but not many rooms can accomodate a tower in the center. With the discontinuation of the HTM1D, 802/800 owners basically saw the true real horizontal center choice taken away from them. I know the reports were it was discontinued because of poor sales but to my knowledge the Nautilus is still in production and B&W can't be selling to many of those a year. With the advances of the 800 line over the years it could very well be that the 800 sounds better than the Nautilus now. It's to bad they didn't allow HTM1's to be made as custom orders or simply make a limited run each year to ensure they sold each that they made.
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post #12692 of 13875
1/27/13 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

This is a very interesting statement and maybe something that gets overlooked as I have seen many times potential owners of 802/800 speakers get denied because the other half thought they were hideous. The marlan heads yield love'em or hate'em responses really fast. The 805's with them being so small not to mention sounding so good are a much easier sell than even the 804's and 803's.
Sold my 801 S2's not for sound but for WAF.
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post #12693 of 13875
1/27/13 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

1st, when comparing, it's best to do it within seconds of each other, not minutes.

So they had a 2 CD players, 1 CD player hooked to each speaker system at the same time? And they had 2 of the same CDs?

Or did they have to swap out the CD player and swap out the CD ?

2nd, both speaker systems need to be LEVEL MATCHED, which is most important. Most people don't even think of this. But even 1dB difference in level makes a significant difference.

Did you see them use an SPL meter and level match each system? biggrin.gif

And did you check to see that both systems were set to Pure Direct or Direct? If one is set to Audyssey ON and one set to Audyssey OFF, that could be a significant difference. biggrin.gif

Just some thoughts.

Wow, I actually have an answer for all of these:

1) The 800/802 - one system, only change was to unplug the banana terminated cables from one speaker and plug them directly into the other speaker (mid song anytime I wanted). Two guys so the change took less than 5 seconds for sure. As far as the 800 to 805/PV1D - same thing with the cables but they did change the settings to accommodate for the subwoofers – not sure exactly what they did there but the end result is the same thing I experience at home when I try to integrate the subwoofer so maybe my hearing is off.

2) I used an iPhone to do level matching which was “calibrated” against a radio shack analogue meter at home.

P.S. I forgot to mention, when I did the "serious" auditions, I was in charge of the remote eek.gif
Edited by BVLDARI - 1/27/13 at 2:27pm
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post #12694 of 13875
1/27/13 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post


These are all very good comments. If the most accurate music reproduction is not the focus or if the individual really likes heavy bass and typically finds themselves going into a receiver's settings and boosting the bass then a subwoofer is a must. I just can't see that type of person being satisfied without a sub. Even with 800's, boosting the bass level would be no comparison for having a sub.

I agree completely, some of the "electronic" music I listen to definitely lends itself to upping the bass and that is when I like listening to the sub crancked up as well. Classical - not so much.
Quote:
The 805's with the B&W stands are very close to the price of the 804's so this is something people should give some extra thought to. Bookshelves on stands make me paranoid as they are easy to knock

I can’t stress enough how important it is for someone who is looking to get into the diamond series to go and do an A/B comparison of the 805 to the 804. The price difference isn’t “huge” especially when considering the stands but the sound is different and definitely worth the time to audition. Plus, it seems most dealers have 804 and 805 available for auditioning.
Quote:
I also agree that the 802 and 800 lend themselves more to the purist music listener and if also being used for home theater music is probably a major percentage of the listening. I think a lot of this has to do with the mids produced from the marlan heads and the tighter bass from the more inert cabinets that just squeezes more realism out of the 800 line than the 805, 804 and 803. If crossing over to a sub a 80Hz then it gets pretty hard to recommend the 802 and 800 even just on the big price bump alone.

I am still experimenting with this as well but there is a noticeable difference from crossing over at 40Hz vs. 80Hz with the subwoofer. At least in my system when I cross over at 40Hz the difference is negligible, at 80Hz you are clearly listening to the sub. Same comment as above – with electronic music I like crossing over at 80Hz and cranking the sub up plus 6 db. With classical or “instrumental” music doing the same screws up the sound significantly - hence why I leave it in 2 ch only... your mileage may vary wink.gif
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post #12695 of 13875
1/27/13 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Sold my 801 S2's not for sound but for WAF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

This is a very interesting statement and maybe something that gets overlooked as I have seen many times potential owners of 802/800 speakers get denied because the other half thought they were hideous. The marlan heads yield love'em or hate'em responses really fast. The 805's with them being so small not to mention sounding so good are a much easier sell than even the 804's and 803's.

Love them, hate them… Just keep in mind, the marlan heads do not go unnoticed…

On a side note, I am lucky my wife likes them cool.gif (because one of the primary reasons my friend has 803D2 is because of his wife rolleyes.gif)
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post #12696 of 13875
1/27/13 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post


Love them, hate them… Just keep in mind, the marlan heads do not go unnoticed…

On a side note, I am lucky my wife likes them cool.gif (because one of the primary reasons my friend has 803D2 is because of his wife rolleyes.gif)
The wife likes my N801's, it was the 801 Series 2's she didn't like.
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post #12697 of 13875
1/27/13 at 4:23pm
So.... I am an official member of this thread!

I bought the cm5s with an 8inch subwoofer

I have some cheapie yamahas...
http://www.epinions.com/reviews/615841_Yamaha_NS_P220_Home_Theater_System__6_piece_?sb=1

Should I keep the rears and center or just get rid of all of them?
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post #12698 of 13875
1/27/13 at 4:43pm
OK so I have a question about stands for my new CM1s. I will be using these as rears, and I purchased the BnW stands STAV24. Will these stands work with my CM1s? Some sites say yes, others say they are just for the 600 series! eek.gif So confused!!
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post #12699 of 13875
1/27/13 at 4:51pm
I own a pair of STAV24's and use them with Wharfedale Diamond 9.2's as my rear surrounds. They work and look great. If all you need are 24" stands to get the tweeters approx ear levels, I see no reason why they can't work with CM1's or any other bookshelf model. They are very well built stands. I do suggest you fill them up wit either sand or what I use, industrial crushed quartz. It makes them far more stable and reduces resonance of the hollow metal pillars. Hope this helps.
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post #12700 of 13875
1/27/13 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

I own a pair of STAV24's and use them with Wharfedale Diamond 9.2's as my rear surrounds. They work and look great. If all you need are 24" stands to get the tweeters approx ear levels, I see no reason why they can't work with CM1's or any other bookshelf model. They are very well built stands. I do suggest you fill them up wit either sand or what I use, industrial crushed quartz. It makes them far more stable and reduces resonance of the hollow metal pillars. Hope this helps.

I guess what I am getting at is, do you physically mount the to the stands? because the thread patterns don't match up? or do you just set the CM1 on top of the stand? There isn't really a good explanation in the instructions, and nothing I can find online helps either =/ Sorry if I sound like a novice here, but I can't really figure these out.
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post #12701 of 13875
1/27/13 at 6:43pm
Just place the speaker on the top plate of the stand and use 4 dabs of Blu-tack. one in each corner, and you are good to go. If unfamilar with Blu-tack, please see link.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-6739-blu-tack.aspx

good luck!
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post #12702 of 13875
1/27/13 at 6:48pm
this won't mess up the finish of the CM1 will it?
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post #12703 of 13875
1/27/13 at 7:37pm
Rarely is the optimal place for your low frequency woofers at the location of the main speakers. The placement of the mains is very limited if you want good imaging. Optimizing sub placement for frequency response in your room of this frequency range which can not be localized is pretty significant IMO. It's also worth the effort to use measurement gear to get them playing nicely with the mains in the transition frequency.
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post #12704 of 13875
1/27/13 at 10:35pm
The holes on the bottom of my CM5s matched up perfectly with my B&W stands. Bought some small screws to secure them.
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post #12705 of 13875
1/28/13 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Sold my 801 S2's not for sound but for WAF.

It's good for me that my wife doesn't mind the little things in life. eek.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #12706 of 13875
1/28/13 at 7:52am
I think my post got missed because it was at the bottom of the page frown.gif

How are the CM9 for two ch music? Looking for an upgrade to my 5.1 but looking primarily to improve two channel music performance.

I am also considering the Dynaudio focus 260, PSB imagine t2 and Thiels scs4 among mainstream brands. There is no place locally to hear them at the same place. I have not heard the 260s or the scs4's. I have heard the others.

I welcome any and all thoughts...also considering a few online brands.
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post #12707 of 13875
1/28/13 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

I think my post got missed because it was at the bottom of the page frown.gif

How are the CM9 for two ch music? Looking for an upgrade to my 5.1 but looking primarily to improve two channel music performance.

I am also considering the Dynaudio focus 260, PSB imagine t2 and Thiels scs4 among mainstream brands. There is no place locally to hear them at the same place. I have not heard the 260s or the scs4's. I have heard the others.

I welcome any and all thoughts...also considering a few online brands.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion based on his personal preference and different experience.

I like the sound of the Dynaudio X32 in my house. I heard the PSB Imagine at the store. I didn't like them as much, but it was at the store, not in my house. If they were in my house, I might have a totally different experience. So just base on my limited experience with the PSB, I would favor the Dynaudio.

Most people will have similar situations. They will have speakers in their homes, but also audition speakers at stores & dealers, not in their homes. So it's not a fair fight. Home field advantage wins. biggrin.gif
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post #12708 of 13875
1/28/13 at 9:46am
Boring pic to all, but not me!



It's my trusted handyman/welder delivering my custom wall mount 805 brackets to use them as height speakers. Still need to prime and paint, and hopefully get them mounted Thursday afternoon or this weekend...
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post #12709 of 13875
1/28/13 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardfh View Post

I have a couple of questions for you users. Currently running Paradigm towers, and because of a new (and very large 90" tv), need smaller speakers for my space. Im looking for higher quality that will sound great, mainly for Home Theater.

How would the 805D be for Home Theater? They would be paired with a good subwoofer. I am currently running a Denon 4520 receiver. Would this be enough to properly power the speakers, or would I need an additional power amp?

For matching Center, would you recommend the HTM2 or HTM4? Is their a noticable sound / performance difference? I dont mind spending more if it makes sense, as I expect to have the speakers for a long time.

Finally, any thoughts on the DB1? A lot of people love some of the Internet subs, but my dealer will give me an excellent price!!

Thanks for your advice. I have listened to the speakers, and am going back next week to listen some more.

Guys (well I am guessing you are all guys), thank you for the answers.

Another option I am considering would be to run the 805D's across the front, including the centre. Each speaker would sit on my TV stand with about 30 inches of space in between the speakers. The stand is 12 inches high by 87 inches wide (holding all of my equipment), and the 90" Sharp would be hung from the wall on top of the speakers.

Any thoughts on the 805d's as a centre? Would the speakers be too close together? Again mainly for movies / sports, with some music.

Thanks for the help.
Edited by richardfh - 1/28/13 at 10:58am
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post #12710 of 13875
1/28/13 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardfh View Post

Guys (well I am guessing you are all guys), thank you for the answers.

Another option I am considering would be to run the 805D's across the front, including the centre. Each speaker would sit on my TV stand with about 20 inches of space in between the speakers. The stand is 21 inches high by 75 inches wide (holding all of my equipment), and the 90" Sharp would be hung from the wall on top of the speakers.

Any thoughts on the 805d's as a centre? Would the speakers be too close together? Again mainly for movies / sports, with some music.

Thanks for the help.

I personally would go with the center 805 over the HTM4 with them being at the same height like you mention but 20 inches is pretty darn close together. There wouldn't be a lot of audible separation especially between the L/C and R/C. Can you get to take 3 805's with a pair of stands and a HTM4 with stand home so you can try two alternative layouts? i.e. the 3 805's on your tv stand close togehter vs. 2 805's on stands wider than your tv stand with the HTM4 on it's stand in the middle.
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post #12711 of 13875
1/28/13 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardfh View Post

Guys (well I am guessing you are all guys), thank you for the answers.

Another option I am considering would be to run the 805D's across the front, including the centre. Each speaker would sit on my TV stand with about 30 inches of space in between the speakers. The stand is 12 inches high by 87 inches wide (holding all of my equipment), and the 90" Sharp would be hung from the wall on top of the speakers.

Any thoughts on the 805d's as a centre? Would the speakers be too close together? Again mainly for movies / sports, with some music.

Thanks for the help.

On spread distance, depends how far back you sit(MLP).
I always thought you wanted an equilateral triangle (FL-FR-MLP) but this article suggests we can benefit from even going a little wider with the FL and FR
http://www.audiophysic.com/aufstellung/regeln_e.html

I have my HTM4 on stacks of hockey pucks on tv/audio cabinet to bring the tweeter+woofer to level with the 805s tweeters and woofers which are on speaker stands and have my Plasma wall mounted above the HTM4. Wish I just had another 805. In this configuration the TV ends up higher then the optimal height. Didn't seem to matter before mount, was weird watching after mounted, but now I'm used to it. Without an acoustically transparent screen and projector you can't have optimal center speaker and screen hight, and I like to see my speakers as long as they look this good. Many folks end up with good picture height, have the center channel below, and use a laser to find the right up tilt angle to point tweeter at MLP.

I'd recommend 3x805s instead of 2x805s and an HTM4

EDIT: the hockey pucks do enable me to get the speaker up off the stand and I have the speaker face out front of the front of the stand which improves clarity.
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post #12712 of 13875
1/28/13 at 4:48pm
Hi,

I am currently running a 3.1 (2 x 685s and HTM61) with bookshelf speakers in the family room. I am contemplating upgrading to floorstanders. I have read in a few reviews etc that a lot of the time the room has a lot to do with the SQ experience. The room is open plan (The lounge area is about 3M x 5M ) with shared dining and kitchen on one side, a tiled floor and glass French doors on the other side. Opposite the TV and speakers there is a 6 foot aquarium. So there is a lot of hard surfaces everywhere. I am contemplating the Bowers Wilkins CM8 or CM9s or something similar but am worried that it would not be worth it in this type of environment.

I would be interested in hearing about other people who have looked at similar setups or have similar environments. All advice or comment s welcome.

Thanks,
Alex
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post #12713 of 13875
1/28/13 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Boring pic to all, but not me!



It's my trusted handyman/welder delivering my custom wall mount 805 brackets to use them as height speakers. Still need to prime and paint, and hopefully get them mounted Thursday afternoon or this weekend...

You must be excited. Seems like you're going to have a fun weekend ahead.
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post #12714 of 13875
1/28/13 at 10:29pm
Hello all. Here's a post with a blast from the past - CDMs!

I need a decent sounding 5.1 AVR on short notice to drive my CDM-7NTs, CDM-CNT and CDM-SNT (older speakers to be sure but I like them) paired with a Monitor Audio sub.

Any suggestions? 50% music, 50% home theater. I was thinking of something like a Denon AVR1713 or Onkyo TX-NR414. In reality I should probably just buy either one and try it - it's not like these guys will break the bank.

I previously used a B&K 7270 and Ref. 30 with these speakers and for the most part, it was a great combo. However, I could always hear a slight hiss coming out of the 7NTs from the amp at a certain level.

My end goal is to get a nicer amp/pre-amp combo but I don't have the time to properly research the B&K replacement and I want something to drive these speakers by next Friday (2/8).

Thanks,
Chris
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post #12715 of 13875
1/29/13 at 2:07am
For those that think a sub is a must to get good bass, I have to disagree.

Before I got my current speakers my setup was N804 + Velodyne DD12 sub.

Now I am using B&W 802 Diamonds + Mcintosh MC452 amp.

The dual 8" woofers of the 802 Diamonds in a ported cabinet each being 4x the volume of most subs on the market is nothing to sneer at, if you have enough amplification.

The MC452 is rated at 450wpc at 8ohms, 900wpc at 4ohms and 1800wpc at 2ohms. Granted most people won't have such a beefy amp but if you have it, then it can rock the house! The 802 Diamonds can use all the power you can throw at it. I know someone who uses MC2kw amps (8000wpc at 2ohms :O )

I have tighter, cleaner, lower bass with 2.0 than when I had 2.1 setup.

I mainly listen to dance music (progressive/trance/drum n bass etc.) and rock.

One thing to note is that, it took close to 3 months for the woofers to break in and get fast and tight and deep.
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post #12716 of 13875
1/29/13 at 5:34am
That is like using "multiple subs" which is large part of the improvement. however, the cost of having sub performance from your mains (including appropriate amp) is astronomical to having a sub or 2 with 'regular' towers. Those speakers must kick some real butt...
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post #12717 of 13875
1/29/13 at 6:14am
+1 on running the 802D2''s (and 803D2's) as full range or perhaps crossed low at 40 with good amplification and dependent upon room conditions. I connect the bass drivers to the 4 ohm taps and the mid/high drivers to the 8 ohm taps on my MC303 and MC302 amps.

I find a much greater solidity and punch to the sound field on soundtracks. It is like spreading smaller subwoofers around the room, helping normalize room modes (I Audyssey Pro for calibration)

I use my two Fathom 113's for LFE and cross the rear and height speakers at 60/80
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post #12718 of 13875
1/29/13 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter View Post

For those that think a sub is a must to get good bass, I have to disagree.

Before I got my current speakers my setup was N804 + Velodyne DD12 sub.

Now I am using B&W 802 Diamonds + Mcintosh MC452 amp.

The dual 8" woofers of the 802 Diamonds in a ported cabinet each being 4x the volume of most subs on the market is nothing to sneer at, if you have enough amplification.

The MC452 is rated at 450wpc at 8ohms, 900wpc at 4ohms and 1800wpc at 2ohms. Granted most people won't have such a beefy amp but if you have it, then it can rock the house! The 802 Diamonds can use all the power you can throw at it. I know someone who uses MC2kw amps (8000wpc at 2ohms :O )

I have tighter, cleaner, lower bass with 2.0 than when I had 2.1 setup.

I mainly listen to dance music (progressive/trance/drum n bass etc.) and rock.

One thing to note is that, it took close to 3 months for the woofers to break in and get fast and tight and deep.

I have no doubt for the vast majority of music (some electronic and pipe organs can dig below your freq response) The 802's alone are besting my 805's + Rythmik set up (whether it's $10K + McKintosh better is personally choice, how much better clearly has differing opinions here from experienced folks). However, if you are claiming the heavy hitting movie scenes like War of the Worlds Pod Emergence will sound even close to as good as my system, then that is not accurate. You're getting down to 34Hz +/- 3db (from spec prolly a little better in room), I'm down to 10Hz +/-3db (in room measured, spec says is 14Hz). The only music that matters on is not what I listen to, but this is my movie set up as well.

You did say 2.0 so I believe you are referring to music and I agree for the vast majority of music; I am of the opinion for Music the 802 will sound better. Those are my dream speakers. I think I'd cross them at 50-60Hz for movies and no sub for music, but would certainly experiment A LOT to find what I enjoy the most.

Another side point, I thought my older veoldyne sub with a 12in woofer and 15in radiator was doing a respectable job but when I upgraded to the modern, higherish end internet direct stuff, it wasn't even close either. Rythmik, Seaton, Funk, JTR, PSA, and what some folks are accomplishing with DIY is a huge step up from what my older velodyne was. Velo can't keep up in the performance to price ratio and even their $4k offering isn't as good as some $2k ID stuff. One fella recently sold 2 JTR captivators (OMG inducing LFE, I was picking pieces of his ceiling out of my hair after the demo) and built 4 dual opposed subs with the new SI 18" drivers, I can't fathom upgrading from dual captivators. He said it was another big jump up. I'd have to look up the total cost but I think it was $500 for each cabinet+ you need power. We are not talking about car audio boom boom boom here, these are tight, clean, accurate, and very musical offerings.

So now that I have you completely convinced, wanna trade?
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post #12719 of 13875
1/29/13 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I have no doubt for the vast majority of music (some electronic and pipe organs can dig below your freq response) The 802's alone are besting my 805's + Rythmik set up (whether it's $10K + McKintosh better is personally choice, how much better clearly has differing opinions here from experienced folks). However, if you are claiming the heavy hitting movie scenes like War of the Worlds Pod Emergence will sound even close to as good as my system, then that is not accurate. You're getting down to 34Hz +/- 3db (from spec prolly a little better in room), I'm down to 10Hz +/-3db (in room measured, spec says is 14Hz). The only music that matters on is not what I listen to, but this is my movie set up as well.

You did say 2.0 so I believe you are referring to music and I agree for the vast majority of music; I am of the opinion for Music the 802 will sound better. Those are my dream speakers. I think I'd cross them at 50-60Hz for movies and no sub for music, but would certainly experiment A LOT to find what I enjoy the most.

Another side point, I thought my older veoldyne sub with a 12in woofer and 15in radiator was doing a respectable job but when I upgraded to the modern, higherish end internet direct stuff, it wasn't even close either. Rythmik, Seaton, Funk, JTR, PSA, and what some folks are accomplishing with DIY is a huge step up from what my older velodyne was. Velo can't keep up in the performance to price ratio and even their $4k offering isn't as good as some $2k ID stuff. One fella recently sold 2 JTR captivators (OMG inducing LFE, I was picking pieces of his ceiling out of my hair after the demo) and built 4 dual opposed subs with the new SI 18" drivers, I can't fathom upgrading from dual captivators. He said it was another big jump up. I'd have to look up the total cost but I think it was $500 for each cabinet+ you need power. We are not talking about car audio boom boom boom here, these are tight, clean, accurate, and very musical offerings.

So now that I have you completely convinced, wanna trade?

Most of the real low end would be in the LFE channel anyway. And this should go to a sub...you can't run the even the 800's without a sub for HT use....
Edited by thrang - 1/30/13 at 8:55am
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post #12720 of 13875
1/29/13 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Most of the real low end be in the LFE channel anyway. And this should go to a sub...you can't run the even the 800's without a sub for HT use....

I've heard this stated both ways and I'm not positive but I believe if you have no sub LFE is routed to the mains.
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