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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 431

post #12901 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Marco View Post

Wow for that price they MUST sound incredibly better than the CM9 which I own.
Kind regards
Marco

The 802D2 do sound incredible, but there's always that point of diminishing returns.

Interestingly, the 802D2 appears to be the best measured B&W speakers I've seen. HTM measured +/-2.9dB on the 5-point avg. 200-10kHz FR.
post #12902 of 17892
11 months ago I sold my 684s and HMT62 for a different LRC set up. Kept the ASW610 and M1s.

I am now going back to an all B&W set up and will be looking at 683 with HMT61. I have read several reviews that stated the HMT61 does not pair well with the 683s. Has anyone ever heard this?

Also, if anyone knows of anyone selling 683s and/or HMT61 (black), please PM me.
post #12903 of 17892
11 months ago I sold my 684s and HMT62 for a different LRC set up. Kept the ASW610 and M1s.

I am now going back to an all B&W set up and will be looking at 683 with HMT61. I have read several reviews that stated the HMT61 does not pair well with the 683s. Has anyone ever heard this?

Also, if anyone knows of anyone selling 683s and/or HMT61 (black), please PM me.
post #12904 of 17892
I would use a 685 book shelf speaker as your center. It's a better match for the 683s. Check out the article below for the details.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/bw-683-surround-speaker-system-measurements
post #12905 of 17892
Hi all. I had Dali helicon 400 speakers for 5 years sold them they were just a little to big for my room loved the sound. Then I bought monitor audio platinum PL100 I did not like them far to bright and harsh for me. Then I tried tannoy precision 6.4 didn't like them either. So I got a home demo of the B&W 805d and Dali Epicon 2 sounded good but not enough bass. So then I got the B&W cm9 love the sound of them very smooth and good bass. So that's me joined the B&W family. This is my system.
B&W cm9 cmc2 dali in wall speakers soon to be B&W in wall. Velodyne DD10+ oppo 105 primare A30.5 amp Yamaha 3020 amp JVC X3 projector.
Thanks
Eric
post #12906 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucky View Post

Hi all. I had Dali helicon 400 speakers for 5 years sold them they were just a little to big for my room loved the sound. Then I bought monitor audio platinum PL100 I did not like them far to bright and harsh for me. Then I tried tannoy precision 6.4 didn't like them either. So I got a home demo of the B&W 805d and Dali Epicon 2 sounded good but not enough bass. So then I got the B&W cm9 love the sound of them very smooth and good bass. So that's me joined the B&W family. This is my system.
B&W cm9 cmc2 dali in wall speakers soon to be B&W in wall. Velodyne DD10+ oppo 105 primare A30.5 amp Yamaha 3020 amp JVC X3 projector.
Thanks
Eric

Congrats on your new B&W speakers! How would you describe the sound of the CM9?
post #12907 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Marco View PostWow for that price they MUST sound incredibly better than the CM9 which I own.
Kind regards Marco

 

They do trust me :)

post #12908 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostThe 802D2 do sound incredible, but there's always that point of diminishing returns. Interestingly, the 802D2 appears to be the best measured B&W speakers I've seen. HTM measured +/-2.9dB on the 5-point avg. 200-10kHz FR.

I have the 802Ds and 800D2 what an improvement :)

post #12909 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I have the 802Ds and 800D2 what an improvement smile.gif

You're talking an improvement going from the 802D1 to the 800D2?

Well, not based on the Stereophile measurements of the 802D1 vs 800D2.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements

802D1:


800D2:
350x700px-LL-3ac788c3_511B800fig4.jpeg

As you can see, the 802D1's measurements actually look a little better than the 800D2 from 200Hz-10kHz; but certainly not worse than the 800D2. At 10kHz, the 800D2 is up +5.0dB, while the 802D1 is +3.5dB.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/27/13 at 6:56pm
post #12910 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post You're talking an improvement going from the 802D1 to the 800D2? Well, not based on the Stereophile measurements of the 802D1 vs 800D2.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements

802D1:


800D2:
350x700px-LL-3ac788c3_511B800fig4.jpeg

As you can see, the 802D1's measurements actually look a little better than the 800D2 from 200Hz-10kHz; but certainly not worse than the 800D2. At 10kHz, the 800D2 is up +5.0dB, while the 802D1 is +3.5dB.

"There's another way to look at this phenomenon. Both the 802D and 800 Diamond could play at very high levels without distress, but I found I could play the 800 at much higher levels without evoking any listener stress."

 

Also there is a bit more than mere measurements! Anyway to me the 800Diamonds D2 are outstanding and I would not trade them for the 802D2 but that's just me :)

post #12911 of 17892
Here are some pics


post #12912 of 17892
Awesome nucky - I'm getting the same speakers delivered on the weekend. What finish did you go for?
post #12913 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex cheng View Post

Awesome nucky - I'm getting the same speakers delivered on the weekend. What finish did you go for?
Black gloss finish in the pictures I posted
Thanks
post #12914 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

"There's another way to look at this phenomenon. Both the 802D and 800 Diamond could play at very high levels without distress, but I found I could play the 800 at much higher levels without evoking any listener stress."


Also there is a bit more than mere measurements! Anyway to me the 800Diamonds D2 are outstanding and I would not trade them for the 802D2 but that's just me smile.gif

Sure, measurements are not everything. But everyone has an opinion, including the magazine reviewer, and it holds no more weight than the next or last opinion. Purely subjective biased opinions, which is fine and expected. But they are just like any opinion.

But if I am comparing objectively, what I look at is the actual OBJECTIVE measurements.

A +3.5dB will not sound as BRIGHT as a +5.0dB @ 10kHz, for example.

And the new 802D2 is even better at +2.9dB @ 10kHz.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/bampw-802-diamond-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

I'm not saying which speaker sounds better subjectively.

All I'm saying is that I would not be proclaiming blanket statements to everyone that the 800D2 SUBJECTIVELY sounds better than the 802D1 when the 800D2 OBJECTIVELY measures worse than the 802D1 and justifying with "measurements aren't everything".

If measurements aren't everything, then subjective biased opinions mean even LESS.

Let's just say each speaker sounds great in its own right, whichever model it may be.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/28/13 at 5:36am
post #12915 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucky View Post

Here are some pics



That looks great & classy. Piano gloss black really shines on those speakers.
post #12916 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostSure, measurements are not everything. But everyone has an opinion, including the magazine reviewer, and it holds no more weight than the next or last opinion. Purely subjective biased opinions, which is fine and expected. But they are just like any opinion.

But if I am comparing objectively, what I look at is the actual OBJECTIVE measurements.

A +3.5dB will not sound as BRIGHT as a +5.0dB @ 10kHz, for example.

And the new 802D2 is even better at +2.9dB @ 10kHz.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/bampw-802-diamond-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

I'm not saying which speaker sounds better subjectively.

All I'm saying is that I would not be proclaiming blanket statements to everyone that the 800D2 SUBJECTIVELY sounds better than the 802D1 when the 800D2 OBJECTIVELY measures worse than the 802D1 and justifying with "measurements aren't everything".

If measurements aren't everything, then subjective biased opinions mean even LESS.

Let's just say each speaker sounds great in its own right, whichever model it may be.

To each their own, I use my ears rather than endless measurements.

 

If I understand you correctly the 802D2 should be king of the hills in the B&W800 series yes?

post #12917 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

To each their own, I use my ears rather than endless measurements.

Other people use their own ears too. What's the point of hashing it back and forth saying "this speaker sounds better than that speaker because I use my own ears" ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

If I understand you correctly the 802D2 should be king of the hills in the B&W800 series yes?

You would be incorrect.

Although the 802D2 & 802D1 both objectively measure better than the 800D2, I don't think one sounds better than the other subjectively. And I would not claim any speaker sounds much better than another. It's a matter of preference.
post #12918 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostOther people use their own ears too. What's the point of hashing it back and forth saying "this speaker sounds better than that speaker because I use my own ears" ? You would be incorrect.

Although the 802D2 & 802D1 both objectively measure better than the 800D2, I don't think one sounds better than the other subjectively. And I would not claim any speaker sounds much better than another. It's a matter of preference.

Fair enough I am not sure where you were going?

post #12919 of 17892
ADTG, I like your reliance on measurements - but only to an extent. You have to realize that Stereophile's measurements, as helpful as they are, are still only the tip of the iceberg of what can be measured for a speaker. For example, Stereophile doesn't do THD, IMD, Klippel, compression, etc.

When you have a speaker measured by Stereophile AND at the NRC, then you start to get a good picture of what the speaker does.

But just relying on Stereophile's (incomplete) measurements, by themselves, can get you into a little trouble.
post #12920 of 17892
Send me the 800's and 802's and i will let you know which one sounds better.... I will then sent back the set that sounds better as no one would want those anyway ....

still looking for my own pair!!!!

Bill
post #12921 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View PostADTG, I like your reliance on measurements - but only to an extent. You have to realize that Stereophile's measurements, as helpful as they are, are still only the tip of the iceberg of what can be measured for a speaker. For example, Stereophile doesn't do THD, IMD, Klippel, compression, etc.

When you have a speaker measured by Stereophile AND at the NRC, then you start to get a good picture of what the speaker does. But just relying on Stereophile's (incomplete) measurements, by themselves, can get you into a little trouble.

Muchas gracias Amigo

post #12922 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

ADTG, I like your reliance on measurements - but only to an extent. You have to realize that Stereophile's measurements, as helpful as they are, are still only the tip of the iceberg of what can be measured for a speaker. For example, Stereophile doesn't do THD, IMD, Klippel, compression, etc.

When you have a speaker measured by Stereophile AND at the NRC, then you start to get a good picture of what the speaker does.

But just relying on Stereophile's (incomplete) measurements, by themselves, can get you into a little trouble.

You're saying it better than I could, but I agree the measurements are only part of the story - what we hear, how we hear, and ultimately, what we like to hear are real and important variables.

I think Kal's review of the McIntosh MC303 concluded with (and I'm loosely paraphrasing) that his ears told him the amp was even better than the measurements might have indicated.

Kal, if I don't have that quite right, sorry!

Now, even people from B&W told me that the performance differences between the 800 and 802 were not significant, but if wse, in his room,with his amps, appreciates the sound better, I can easily understand that. I would certainly think low/ mid frequencies would have better impact with adequate amplification.
post #12923 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

ADTG, I like your reliance on measurements - but only to an extent. You have to realize that Stereophile's measurements, as helpful as they are, are still only the tip of the iceberg of what can be measured for a speaker. For example, Stereophile doesn't do THD, IMD, Klippel, compression, etc.

When you have a speaker measured by Stereophile AND at the NRC, then you start to get a good picture of what the speaker does.

But just relying on Stereophile's (incomplete) measurements, by themselves, can get you into a little trouble.

Of course, we all know that having multiple sets of measurements from multiple sources is ideal.

But we don't have that luxury most of the time. It's life. We're lucky if we have one single set of measurements to compare.

So like everything else in life, we just make the best out of what we have. And that's why we say "measurements aren't everything". But they are something.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/1/13 at 11:18am
post #12924 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex cheng View Post

Awesome nucky - I'm getting the same speakers delivered on the weekend. What finish did you go for?
I hope you enjoy them as much as I do. Black gloss finish
Thanks
post #12925 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Of course, we all know that having multiple sets of measurements from multiple sources is ideal.

But we don't have that luxury most of the time. It's life. We're lucky if we have one single set of measurements to compare.

So like everything else in life, we just make the best out of what we have. And that's why we say "measurements aren't everything". But they are something.

Agreed. But in the future, when you say "speaker A measures better than speaker B," you should probably be more specific and instead say something like "speaker A measures better than speaker B in Stereophile's frequency response measurement." By simply saying "speaker A measures better than speaker B," it implies that it measures better in every way, when that may or may not be the case.
post #12926 of 17892
I recently had a 5.1 system with 5 600 series b&w speakers. I was powering them with a marantz 7007 using audioquest wiring. I found the mid's to be muddled and although they weren't "bright", there was a lack of detail. So I've returned them, I understand the higher end b&w's must sound a Lot better but out of what I'm willing to spend.
post #12927 of 17892
What gauge of wire should I use for my CM5 speakers? 10 to 15 ft away from receiver.
post #12928 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

What gauge of wire should I use for my CM5 speakers? 10 to 15 ft away from receiver.
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf
post #12929 of 17892
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

What gauge of wire should I use for my CM5 speakers? 10 to 15 ft away from receiver.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
post #12930 of 17892
Thanks for the chart. I'm not sure what brand, size, or if I actually need quad wire for these speakers. For those reading this , CM5's ( bookshelves )
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