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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 432

post #12931 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

Thanks for the chart. I'm not sure what brand, size, or if I actually need quad wire for these speakers. For those reading this , CM5's ( bookshelves )

You don't need anything too fanciful. Two conductors, made of copper.
post #12932 of 17813

New pictures

 

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes

post #12933 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

New pictures

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes

Look at those "inferior" 800D's...how dare you pollute the room with those...smile.gif

Simply awesome setup, the photos came out great.

Any issues with reflections with some of the exposes tile floor?
post #12934 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View PostLook at those "inferior" 800D's...how dare you pollute the room with those...smile.gif
Simply awesome setup, the photos came out great.  Any issues with reflections with some of the exposes tile floor?

 

Yes I like the underdogs, no issues at all with the tile just great sound, the area rug is very thick

post #12935 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

New pictures

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes

Wow! That's simply an amazing room. So that's how the upper half lives. wink.gif
post #12936 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

New pictures

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes

Sweet mother.......that is quite impressive indeed....Abbey Road Studios, Skywalker Studios, and then some. eek.gif

I spent the last 15 minutes drooling over those pictures. biggrin.gif
post #12937 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostSweet mother.......that is quite impressive indeed....Abbey Road Studios, Skywalker Studios, and then some. eek.gif
 I spent the last 15 minutes drooling over those pictures. biggrin.gif

 

Thank you, it took me a while to get this at this stage the sound is the best I have ever heard, except at the Walt Disney Symphony Hall redface.gif

 

http://www.laphil.com/

post #12938 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post Wow! That's simply an amazing room. So that's how the upper half lives. wink.gif

I just spend almost any disposable income into this room, forget cars, clothes, watches and other...

post #12939 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Thank you, it took me a while to get this at this stage the sound is the best I have ever heard, except at the Walt Disney Symphony Hall redface.gif


http://www.laphil.com/

Maybe you posted on this already, but what are you looking to replace the Classe amps with?
post #12940 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

New pictures

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=wes

Only one word necessary, Awesome! Thanks for sharing.
post #12941 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I just spend almost any disposable income into this room, forget cars, clothes, watches and other...

You wouldn't happen to have a room for rent, would you? eek.gif
post #12942 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post You wouldn't happen to have a room for rent, would you? eek.gif

It depends what are you willing to pay :)

post #12943 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post Only one word necessary, Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for the compliment

post #12944 of 17813
As awesome as wse's room is, the one thing that made me smile was the Apple TV in the equipment list. I have one too, and I suspect so many other people have them. It seems no matter what kind of gears we own, whether it's B&W 800D2 or B&W 683, we still gotta have that Apple TV/ AirPlay. biggrin.gif

I mean even if I had a million dollars worth of gears, I would still have that Apple TV/ AirPlay. biggrin.gif
post #12945 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post As awesome as wse's room is, the one thing that made me smile was the Apple TV in the equipment list. I have one too, and I suspect so many other people have them. It seems no matter what kind of gears we own, whether it's B&W 800D2 or B&W 683, we still gotta have that Apple TV/ AirPlay. biggrin.gif
I mean even if I had a million dollars worth of gears, I would still have that Apple TV/ AirPlay. biggrin.gif

 

Yes hooked on Apple for casual listening it's the best :)  Love to be able to control libraries with the iPad.

 

For serious listening I use my Mac Book Retina display loaded with 16GB of RAM + 756 SSD hooked through the HDMI, and playing from the battery rather than the wall !

 

I use Audirvana so I can play high resolution files I control everything with the iPad I love it

post #12946 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes hooked on Apple for casual listening it's the best smile.gif  Love to be able to control libraries with the iPad.

For serious listening I use my Mac Book Retina display loaded with 16GB of RAM + 756 SSD hooked through the HDMI, and playing from the battery rather than the wall !

I use Audirvana so I can play high resolution files I control everything with the iPad I love it

Similar here - Mac Mini, Audirvana, Mcintosh D100 DAC, AIFF or a few higher res FLACS...

You mean from the laptop battery, so some external battery pack?
post #12947 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post Similar here - Mac Mini, Audirvana, Mcintosh D100 DAC, AIFF or a few higher res FLACS... You mean from the laptop battery, so some external battery pack?

Yes from the laptop

post #12948 of 17813
I'm thinking of upgrading my fronts + center speaker and was wondering about my amplifier if its still adequate after the upgrade. I have Marantz SR 5007 running a 5.1 setup with 685 fronts, htm61 center, 686 rears and asw10xp sub. I have been quite satisfied with this setup so far, but I am starting to wish better clarity and soundstage from my setup.

I was thinking of buying a pair of cm8's and cmc (so just replacing the front line and leaving the rears and sub untouched). My concern is that is the SR5007 powerful (7x100W - fronts bi-amplifiable) enough to run effortlessly the cm8 fronts? I was planning to run in 5.1 with the front channels for cm8's bi-amped.

I have seen few topics on forums elsewhere where people have used pre-amp + 200w amp combos, is this overkill for cm8's? I would hope that I could still use the marantz with the cm8's. What kind of experiences do you have of the cm8's amp-power requirements? Is that SR5007 enough for them when bi-amped?

Thanks for any insight! smile.gif
post #12949 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjvalima View Post

I'm thinking of upgrading my fronts + center speaker and was wondering about my amplifier if its still adequate after the upgrade. I have Marantz SR 5007 running a 5.1 setup with 685 fronts, htm61 center, 686 rears and asw10xp sub. I have been quite satisfied with this setup so far, but I am starting to wish better clarity and soundstage from my setup.

I was thinking of buying a pair of cm8's and cmc (so just replacing the front line and leaving the rears and sub untouched). My concern is that is the SR5007 powerful (7x100W - fronts bi-amplifiable) enough to run effortlessly the cm8 fronts? I was planning to run in 5.1 with the front channels for cm8's bi-amped.

I have seen few topics on forums elsewhere where people have used pre-amp + 200w amp combos, is this overkill for cm8's? I would hope that I could still use the marantz with the cm8's. What kind of experiences do you have of the cm8's amp-power requirements? Is that SR5007 enough for them when bi-amped?

Thanks for any insight! smile.gif

For 2.1/5.1, the subs do all the heavy power lifting, so the midrange & treble of the speakers do not require as much power, especially if you are listening to really high volumes from a far distance (huge room). So in most cases, the 100WPC Marantz is adequate. But 200WPC is NOT overkill either. Also, I would not waste my energy, time, or money on passive bi-amping.
post #12950 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjvalima View Post

I'm thinking of upgrading my fronts + center speaker and was wondering about my amplifier if its still adequate after the upgrade. I have Marantz SR 5007 running a 5.1 setup with 685 fronts, htm61 center, 686 rears and asw10xp sub. I have been quite satisfied with this setup so far, but I am starting to wish better clarity and soundstage from my setup.

I was thinking of buying a pair of cm8's and cmc (so just replacing the front line and leaving the rears and sub untouched). My concern is that is the SR5007 powerful (7x100W - fronts bi-amplifiable) enough to run effortlessly the cm8 fronts? I was planning to run in 5.1 with the front channels for cm8's bi-amped.

I have seen few topics on forums elsewhere where people have used pre-amp + 200w amp combos, is this overkill for cm8's? I would hope that I could still use the marantz with the cm8's. What kind of experiences do you have of the cm8's amp-power requirements? Is that SR5007 enough for them when bi-amped?

Thanks for any insight! smile.gif

Speaker upgrades are one of the most worthwhile upgrades you can make to your system. Looks like you are headed in the right direction. Here are some points on your other thoughts.

-The SR5007 spec (7x100watts) is a 2 channel only driven spec. It is not going to put it that much will all channels driven. If I had to venture a guess maybe it's 7x60ish, but realize 5.1 and 7.1 content rarely if ever is blasting from all channels simulcast anyway so spec'ing either way is a bit misleading, just understand how it is spec'd.

-The type of bi-amping you are talking about here is known is "passive bi-amping". Run some searches for the details but you will not actually be getting any more power to your drivers and it offers no audible benefit (OK maybe a very very very minor audible benefit). It's not worth the cost of the extra wire. Active bi-amping is worth while but you'd have to rip the crossovers out of your speakers, doubtful you can make an active crossover as nice as B&W passive one, you don't want to do that either. Just hook it up normal.

-Some, especially in this thread do not agree with me (but some here do), but all amps of reasonable build quality and design sound the same when driven within their limits (AKA not distorting). Tube amps have a non-linear FR so add EQ if that's what you want. The time to add more amplifier power is when you begin to have distortion at the volume levels you like to listen to. When you are playing "loud" does it start to sound harsh?

-The sensitivity specs I found on the cm8 and 685 are both 88db/w/m so that tells me if you are happy with the loudness of the 685's the cm8's will get equally loud on the same power. Ask yourself at higher levels, is the sound still clean? Do I want to go louder? If I go louder is it distorting? Is the cost of the amp justified considering how often I will be listening at that level?

If you end up with an external amp look into emotiva or outlaw for price friendly options. Some folks even use pro gear but then you have to think about fan mods and such. I do run an XPA-3 across my L, R, + C. It comes into play and makes an audible improvement when I get close to reference, which is not too often. Nice to know it's there if I want to though.
Edited by dstew100 - 3/3/13 at 6:07am
post #12951 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Speaker upgrades are one of the most worthwhile upgrades you can make to your system. Looks like you are headed in the right direction. Here are some points on your other thoughts.


If you end up with an external amp look into emotiva or outlaw for price friendly options. Some folks even use pro gear but then you have to think about fan mods and such. I do run an XPA-3 across my L, R, + C. It comes into play and makes an audible improvement when I get close to reference, which is not too often. Nice to know it's there if I want to though.

Very good advice. Could you please to a newbie like me what reference actually means. I understand it refers to a high level of sound quality, but what actually defines it and how do you know your there?
post #12952 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mominayal View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Speaker upgrades are one of the most worthwhile upgrades you can make to your system. Looks like you are headed in the right direction. Here are some points on your other thoughts.


If you end up with an external amp look into emotiva or outlaw for price friendly options. Some folks even use pro gear but then you have to think about fan mods and such. I do run an XPA-3 across my L, R, + C. It comes into play and makes an audible improvement when I get close to reference, which is not too often. Nice to know it's there if I want to though.

Very good advice. Could you please to a newbie like me what reference actually means. I understand it refers to a high level of sound quality, but what actually defines it and how do you know your there?

Reference level is a standard in the movie industry. Do you have your AVR set up so the numbers are negative? AKA -30 is ok listening, -20 is solid, -10 is loud and fun, 0 is OMG? With that scale 0 is reference. The standard says peaks of the main channels are up to 105 dbs and peaks of the LFE channel are up to 115 dbs.

EDIT: reference is very loud in home. It is also the theoretical level at which the director intended the movie to be watched in a Theater environment.
post #12953 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjvalima View Post

I'm thinking of upgrading my fronts + center speaker and was wondering about my amplifier if its still adequate after the upgrade. I have Marantz SR 5007 running a 5.1 setup with 685 fronts, htm61 center, 686 rears and asw10xp sub. I have been quite satisfied with this setup so far, but I am starting to wish better clarity and soundstage from my setup.

I was thinking of buying a pair of cm8's and cmc (so just replacing the front line and leaving the rears and sub untouched). My concern is that is the SR5007 powerful (7x100W - fronts bi-amplifiable) enough to run effortlessly the cm8 fronts? I was planning to run in 5.1 with the front channels for cm8's bi-amped.
...

Thanks for any insight! smile.gif
I don't know how much room you have, but why not move the 685s to surround and the 686 to surround back (or height or wide front depending upon your room and receiver capabilities). Also it is more money but the CMC2 is a highly regarded center if you have the room.

I am also a fan of more power but do believe there can be differences in how amps sound (subtle perhaps) provided the rest of the system is revealing enough. You are working the correct thing as speakers are the most important. I would be more inclined to recommend the XPA-5 over the XPA-3 due to the larger power supply but that is due to my experience with the now discontinued UPA-1s
post #12954 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Reference level is a standard in the movie industry. Do you have your AVR set up so the numbers are negative? AKA -30 is ok listening, -20 is solid, -10 is loud and fun, 0 is OMG? With that scale 0 is reference. The standard says peaks of the main channels are up to 105 dbs and peaks of the LFE channel are up to 115 dbs.

EDIT: reference is very loud in home. It is also the theoretical level at which the director intended the movie to be watched in a Theater environment.

Yes, in my setup, I rarely go past -6, generally -12 to -8 depending upon how content is authored. If your trims are a little hot, I suppose one would also back off of reference accordingly (Audyssey Pro did all my trims at 76 db)
post #12955 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Reference level is a standard in the movie industry. Do you have your AVR set up so the numbers are negative? AKA -30 is ok listening, -20 is solid, -10 is loud and fun, 0 is OMG? With that scale 0 is reference. The standard says peaks of the main channels are up to 105 dbs and peaks of the LFE channel are up to 115 dbs.

EDIT: reference is very loud in home. It is also the theoretical level at which the director intended the movie to be watched in a Theater environment.

so when a speaker company states that a certain model of there speakers is reference what do they mean, just that they are able to play at 105dbs without distortion? and in turn does that mean that models below that level are not able to play that loud at least with good clarity and are prone to distort at 105dbs? How do I know objectively that my system is capable of reference performance do I need an instrument that measures dbs?

I have cm9 for LR, CMC2 for center, DS3 surrounds, seaton subM, and anthem mrx300 with MCA30 for LCR. My room is 40' X 16' X 7' but listening position is 12' from the LCR. I think I have the capability for reference level performance but does the room volume impact the how loud it will be in the room, i.e. will I not reach 105db potentially because the room is so big?
post #12956 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mominayal View Post


so when a speaker company states that a certain model of there speakers is reference what do they mean, just that they are able to play at 105dbs without distortion?

Can you provide me an example of what you mean? Are you talking about THX certifications? I think I've seen as a product line's flagship product being referred to as their reference product, this has nothing to do with reference level. Although the THX certifications are related, each cert level is a little different though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mominayal View Post

and in turn does that mean that models below that level are not able to play that loud at least with good clarity and are prone to distort at 105dbs? How do I know objectively that my system is capable of reference performance do I need an instrument that measures dbs?

I have cm9 for LR, CMC2 for center, DS3 surrounds, seaton subM, and anthem mrx300 with MCA30 for LCR. My room is 40' X 16' X 7' but listening position is 12' from the LCR. I think I have the capability for reference level performance but does the room volume impact the how loud it will be in the room, i.e. will I not reach 105db potentially because the room is so big?

Yeah, measurement gear is the way to go. Those new USB mics are making a measurement set up easier and cheaper than before. You can work it out on paper, based on sensitivity, distance, and available power, but the room is not being properly accounted for that way. Plus you can use your measurement gear to optimize so go for it.

Very very nice system. I had the pleasure of meeting Mark once and really enjoyed chatting with him. Very down to earth and happy to share his knowledge. His gear is high performance and very nice appearance. Heard two SubM's and an F2 together, wow.

Generally it is the subwoofer department where system's can't get to reference. 115dbs at 20Hz is no joke, what if I want to play reference down to 10Hz? But you have one of the nicest subwoofers commercially available. That being said it is still a huge space and a sealed sub. So I don't know without measurement gear. If you do add another one one day though you will also get a flatter frequency response though.

Hope this helps
post #12957 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View PostReference level is a standard in the movie industry. Do you have your AVR set up so the numbers are negative? AKA -30 is ok listening, -20 is solid, -10 is loud and fun, 0 is OMG? With that scale 0 is reference. The standard says peaks of the main channels are up to 105 dbs and peaks of the LFE channel are up to 115 dbs.

EDIT: reference is very loud in home. It is also the theoretical level at which the director intended the movie to be watched in a Theater environment.

I rarely go pass -30 very few times do I go to -25 for movies, I would damage my hearing!  For music for a short period I will go to -20 just for fun.  I sit 10 feet away from the speakers.  In a commercial theater we are at least 30 feet away from speakers if not more

post #12958 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Reference level is a standard in the movie industry. Do you have your AVR set up so the numbers are negative? AKA -30 is ok listening, -20 is solid, -10 is loud and fun, 0 is OMG? With that scale 0 is reference. The standard says peaks of the main channels are up to 105 dbs and peaks of the LFE channel are up to 115 dbs.


EDIT: reference is very loud in home. It is also the theoretical level at which the director intended the movie to be watched in a Theater environment.
I rarely go pass -30 very few times do I go to -25 for movies, I would damage my hearing!  For music for a short period I will go to -20 just for fun.  I sit 10 feet away from the speakers.  In a commercial theater we are at least 30 feet away from speakers if not more

I'm doing much of my average listening between -20 and -30, however when the latest action flick comes out or a song catches my desire a little more then usual I go on up. Skyfall blue ray at -5 was very fun, but I did get a text from the neighbours.

There are a bunch of these tables out there
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/PermissibleExposureTime.htm
Note the 105db mains and 115 dbs LFE are PEAK values. average volume will be 20db down from those numbers. For a movie reference is not a hearing loss concern, music tends to be much more constant volumes so that is more dangerous over longer periods of time.

Also note those are SPL values from MLP so 115dbs LFE is from where you're sitting to the speaker. That isn't any different at a theater verse your room. That being said, not very many theater's with good enough sound to do reference right.
post #12959 of 17813
I'm issu
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I rarely go pass -30 very few times do I go to -25 for movies, I would damage my hearing!  For music for a short period I will go to -20 just for fun.  I sit 10 feet away from the speakers.  In a commercial theater we are at least 30 feet away from speakers if not more
I'm usually at -15, -5 when I really wanna have fun. At that level glasses are usually falling out if cupboards in the kitchen on the main level (HT is in basement) due to the F2.
post #12960 of 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by mominayal View PostI'm issu
I'm usually at -15, -5 when I really wanna have fun. At that level glasses are usually falling out if cupboards in the kitchen on the main level (HT is in basement) due to the F2.

I don't think I have ever been at that level I would have to leave the room! The walls rattles already at -25 when the subs deliver such as in Prometheus 

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