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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 447

post #13381 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

You can get JL Audio subs for very reasonable prices wink.gif

Not as reasonable as the deal I got on a barely used ASW-825 so I suppose I owe those of you who speak ill of B&W subs a thank-you.
post #13382 of 17845
I had a pair of B&W ASW 850 subs and they were truly an awesome sub. I sold one for £800 and the other for £600 so some real bargain can be had if looking.

The ASW 850 outperformed the seriously expensive velo Dd15+.

I am looking at getting a pair of seaton submersive f2 subs for the rear of my room.
post #13383 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremal View Post

Not as reasonable as the deal I got on a barely used ASW-825 so I suppose I owe those of you who speak ill of B&W subs a thank-you.

I am not saying anything bad about B&W subs!
post #13384 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremal View Post

Not as reasonable as the deal I got on a barely used ASW-825 so I suppose I owe those of you who speak ill of B&W subs a thank-you.

I am not saying anything bad about B&W subs!
post #13385 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremal View Post

Well unless you need bass for an amphitheater, it shouldn't matter that that Rythmik measures better than B&W subs. For my room, the ASW-825 does just fine.
I see that you like your choice and do not like to feel it was a lousy deal ... no worries mate, we all have our own preferences.

But for everyone else who is a B&W owner, and is considering a sub, there is absolutely no advantage in sticking to B&W. ID companies offer value in their products, some even look good and are well built too - see SVS, which has come a long way. If you want to opt for B&M brands, there are also other options, and I have gone from SVS to Rythmik to Velodyne and now I have a JL Audio and a Hsu.

The Hsu MBM works well, but is built like a 50c carton from Walmart, and cover it whereas I happily display my JL Audio, and friend comment on the tank like build quality and the gloss finish.

In the end, YMMV, and we decide what we do with our own $$, but I think buyers should know there are many options out there.

Cheers.
post #13386 of 17845
No to derail topic to subs but a general question to the folks in here out of pure curiousity: Did you find that you auditioned/demo'd your subs pre-purchsae as aggressively as you did your main fronts (and possibly surrounds)?
post #13387 of 17845
20 years ago I auditioned a Velodyne 12" ($1200) at home for a weekend and brought my speakers to the shop to audition the Def Tech Powerfield 1500 that I ended up buying. Besides that I listened to several other subs so then I did my homework.
post #13388 of 17845
Going on four years here with 683 fronts and 685 center and surrounds. The 685 is the best center by a mile out of it and the htms ... I tried all three and the 685 just spanks them.
Warmly recommended!
post #13389 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by McStyvie View Post

Going on four years here with 683 fronts and 685 center and surrounds. The 685 is the best center by a mile out of it and the htms ... I tried all three and the 685 just spanks them.
Warmly recommended!

How did you get a single 685 for a center?
post #13390 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

No to derail topic to subs but a general question to the folks in here out of pure curiousity: Did you find that you auditioned/demo'd your subs pre-purchsae as aggressively as you did your main fronts (and possibly surrounds)?

I serious doubt it. Playing 20-80Hz signals is unequivocally nothing compared to playing 80Hz-20kHz.

All you need to look at on subs is their measurements, specifically power compression and distortion.

Can your sub play clean accurate bass signal @ THX standard of 115dB without compressing and distorting severely?

If you look at that $1100 B&W ASW 610XP subwoofer, at 40Hz, it can only output 101dB @ 25% THD!. Even @ 80Hz, it can only output 108dB @ 13% THD.

Take home message, you don't need to critically listen to subs like you do with main speakers, and you should not overspend on subs that can't even play up to THX standard - so buy subs from Funk, Seaton, JTR, Rythmik, SVS, HSU, and other ID companies. Look at the measurements.
post #13391 of 17845
If I am not bi wiring, does it matter (top or bottom) which terminals I hook up to? I have CM5s. Thanks.
post #13392 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

If I am not bi wiring, does it matter (top or bottom) which terminals I hook up to? I have CM5s. Thanks.

As long as the jumpers are in place, no, it does not matter.
post #13393 of 17845
Great. Thanks
post #13394 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

How did you get a single 685 for a center?

Thx!
I can imagine, but 685s don't look center'ish type speaker. Unfortunately, aesthetics counts considering WAF:)
post #13395 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostI serious doubt it. Playing 20-80Hz signals is unequivocally nothing compared to playing 80Hz-20kHz.  All you need to look at on subs is their measurements, specifically power compression and distortion.

Can your sub play clean accurate bass signal @ THX standard of 115dB without compressing and distorting severely?

Yes JL Audio Fathom F113 plays at that level

post #13396 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

If I am not bi wiring, does it matter (top or bottom) which terminals I hook up to? I have CM5s. Thanks.

it should not matter, BUT B&W recommends... "when single wiring, connect the cable from the amplifier to the lower terminals on 2-way systems and on the upper terminals on 3-way systems.". in the 800 manual.

Bill
post #13397 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes JL Audio Fathom F113 plays at that level

I should have been clearer and said "B&W" sub.

The JL are great subs, but you will pay more than $2,000, correct?
post #13398 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I should have been clearer and said "B&W" sub.

The JL are great subs, but you will pay more than $2,000, correct?

Yes it was expensive!
post #13399 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes JL Audio Fathom F113 plays at that level

Has anyone seen masurements on the DB1?

BTW, I love JL subs. Had the stuff in my cars for years...
post #13400 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes it was expensive!
Precisely. JL subs are quite nice and can exceed THX standard, but they are not cheap!

The point is a $1200 Rythmik sub can exceed THX standard and outperform many costlier B&M subs.

Sure, a $10K Paradigm, Revel, KEF, Focal sub can exceed THX standard and hang with most subs. But they are $10,000. eek.gif

I suppose the JL & higher end Velodyne subs are in between since they are great performers and their prices are in between the ID & the bigger BM subs.
post #13401 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostPrecisely. JL subs are quite nice and can exceed THX standard, but they are not cheap! The point is a $1200 Rythmik sub can exceed THX standard and outperform many costlier B&M subs. Sure, a $10K Paradigm, Revel, KEF, Focal sub can exceed THX standard and hang with most subs. But they are $10,000. eek.gif
I suppose the JL & higher end Velodyne subs are in between since they are great performers and their prices are in between the ID & the bigger BM subs.

 

So which do you prefer under $2000 range!

post #13402 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

So which do you prefer under $2000 range!
The Funk 18.0 TSAD unpowered for $2K or the Rythmik FV15HP for $1200.

Let's compare the $9K Paradigm sub vs $1.2K Rythmik @ 2m SPL levels.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/paradigm-sig-sub-2-1/paradigm-sig-sub-2-analysis

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/rythmik-fv15hp/fv15hp-measurements

Paradigm vs Rythmik SPL:

32Hz: 113.2 vs 117.8
40Hz: 116.9 vs 120
50Hz: 120.2 vs 119.9
63Hz: 122.5 vs 119.7

Why would anyone pay $8K MORE for a sub that produces 3dB LESS @ 40Hz & ~ 5dB LESS @ 32Hz? eek.gif

I hope Audioholics gets a hold of the DB1. biggrin.gif
post #13403 of 17845
From Data-bass:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0

2m SPL @ 32/40/50/60 Hz

$1200 B&W ASW-610XP : 96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9
$300 BIC PL-200: 102.5/107.7/110.4/108.1 (HSU clone)
Epik Empire: 109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
Paradigm Sig Sub2: 109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
Hsu VTF-15H: 113/115.7/115.7/115.6
Velodyne DD18+: 113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
SVS PB13 Ultra: 115.5/117.5/117.8/116.6
Chase HT VS18.1: 116.0/118.1/117.8/117.2
Rythmik FV15HP: 117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8

So a cheap $300 BIC PL200, which is actually a low-end HSU sub, outperforms a $1200 B&W sub! How sad is that? eek.gif

You can easily see how the Rythmik, HSU, Epik, SVS, & Chase are much better bang-for-buck.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/1/13 at 9:19pm
post #13404 of 17845
Just curious seems like the mass phone numbers disconnected no way to contact B&W by phone . Kind of weird .
post #13405 of 17845
What is the purpose of the center bullet shaped cap? I Just noticed a small crack in the silver center bullet cap on a DM601 S3 Kevlar cone. I think they screw in, but I’m not sure if it’s worth it to try and find a replacement cap or not. Any info would be appreciated.
post #13406 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

From Data-bass:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0

2m SPL @ 32/40/50/60 Hz

$1200 B&W ASW-610: 96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9
$300 BIC PL-200: 102.5/107.7/110.4/108.1 (HSU clone)
Epik Empire: 109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
Paradigm Sig Sub2: 109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
Velodyne DD18+: 113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
SVS PB13 Ultra: 115.5/117.5/117.8/116.6
Chase HT VS18.1: 116.0/118.1/117.8/117.2
Rythmik FV15HP: 117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8

So a cheap $300 BIC PL200, which is actually a low-end HSU sub, outperforms a $1200 B&W sub! How sad is that? eek.gif

Woa! Incredible where did the JL Audio rank?
post #13407 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

The Funk 18.0 TSAD unpowered for $2K or the Rythmik FV15HP for $1200.

Let's compare the $9K Paradigm sub vs $1.2K Rythmik @ 2m SPL levels.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/paradigm-sig-sub-2-1/paradigm-sig-sub-2-analysis

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/rythmik-fv15hp/fv15hp-measurements

Paradigm vs Rythmik SPL:

32Hz: 113.2 vs 117.8
40Hz: 116.9 vs 120
50Hz: 120.2 vs 119.9
63Hz: 122.5 vs 119.7

Why would anyone pay $8K MORE for a sub that produces 3dB LESS @ 40Hz & ~ 5dB LESS @ 32Hz? eek.gif

I hope Audioholics gets a hold of the DB1. biggrin.gif

Unbelievable!
post #13408 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Just curious seems like the mass phone numbers disconnected no way to contact B&W by phone . Kind of weird .

Just heard that B&W has been purchased by Bose. It will probably take a few days for the new phone system to be operative.

Looks like B&W will finally produce some good sound.
post #13409 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Just heard that B&W has been purchased by Bose. It will probably take a few days for the new phone system to be operative.

Looks like B&W will finally produce some good sound.

You could have done better than "Bose" dude, that just gave away the April's fools =(.
post #13410 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

I see that you like your choice and do not like to feel it was a lousy deal ... no worries mate, we all have our own preferences.

You have no idea of the deal I got, and your inference that it was a lousy deal shows that you have your own preconceptions designed to make you feel good about your choices.
Quote:
But for everyone else who is a B&W owner, and is considering a sub, there is absolutely no advantage in sticking to B&W.

How can you say that when you have no knowledge of the used market for B&W subs, the system and room of "everyone else", etc.?
Quote:
ID companies offer value in their products, some even look good and are well built too - see SVS, which has come a long way. If you want to opt for B&M brands, there are also other options, and I have gone from SVS to Rythmik to Velodyne and now I have a JL Audio and a Hsu.

Then go to the folders for Rythmik, Velodyne, Hsu and JL Audio and tout their value. You've stated your opinion here quite clearly. Continuing to argue against B&W value in a B&W folder full of B&W customers is textbook threadcrapping.
Quote:
The Hsu MBM works well, but is built like a 50c carton from Walmart, and cover it whereas I happily display my JL Audio, and friend comment on the tank like build quality and the gloss finish.

My speakers are ash black wood finish, and many others here have other wood finish that would clash with piano black.
Quote:
In the end, YMMV, and we decide what we do with our own $$, but I think buyers should know there are many options out there.

Yeah, we get that. Do you get that this is a B&W owner's discussion?
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